How can I make my mother understand that I am going to be a musician and won't ever study anything "real" to get a "real job"?

As someone who is heavily involved in the Florida metal scene…

Do you like money? How about food? Places to live?

I know dudes who have had incredibly successful musical careers, who are broke as a joke, couch surfing with friends if they’re lucky. Many others are just straight-up homeless and living in tents and storage facilities.

You need a contingency plan.

You need active employment to pay for your hobbies, that may or may not turn out the way that you imagine.

Well, you do need to support yourself until you can support yourself via music. How will you do that?

I work with a concert level bass player, and despite getting union scale and working three nights a week, he still works here to make sure his family (and he) have a roof over their head.

And don;t dismiss your mother’s school suggestion out of hand. The more you know about music the better musician you’ll be. we’re not all Joey Ramone, there is some exposure to different genres needed.

I highly recommend an education so you can have a back-up career. I’ve worked in radio quite a while and it can take a long time to be a star, and not everyone makes it.

Try showing her THIS video from George Thorogood. (@symboline) you should enjoy this)

I fully support your dreams and love of music. My suggestion is research to find a music program at a university that you feel suits you better. A compromise of sorts. It will expand your horizons. I am not just talking about music, university education allows you to explore many things and sharpen skills in some basics outside of music. It also can be a source of networking for your career. The guys I know who did well in the music business have college degrees. I am sure some who have been very successful don’t have degrees, but I am just saying taking those four years will not cause you to miss your opportunity and it will give you more opportunities if your dream does not work out as planned. In fact, many people wind up in a great place because their plans didn’t work out as planned. Life has many turns and surprises. A guy I went to elementary school with and older, always wanted to play his guitar and was sure he would grow up and play in a band, and he did. I think he actually got his degree in Journalism? You can double check me. His name is Mark Bryan from Hootie and Blowfish.

I get the feeling you are assuming your mom is saying between the lines that she doesn’t support your dream, I don’t think that is necessarily the case. I just think she wants you to be well prepared and not miss an opportunity. You both have the same goals, for you to be happy, safe, and seize your opportunities.

These are the stats on the full time musicians I know:

Harpist: Plays harps at weddings on weekends and gives harp lessons. Mostly lives off husband’s income. Education : Masters Degree

Organist: Plays organs at church on Sunday and weddings/funerals. Lives mostly off rich girlfriend. Education : Masters Degree

Studio sound mixer (not sure what his real title is. He makes albums and local commercials and mixes them on a sound board) Best money of all of them—still lives like a church mouse. Education: Bachelor’s degree

Karaoke DJ: Has a traveling Karaoke booth he brings to parties and performs in bars. Works 6 – 7 nights a week. Lives off wife’s income. Education: High School

Do what you will with that info.

You know what you love enough to spend the rest of your life doing it. That’s great. But why not complete some formal studies while you’re young and still developing your career, so that eventually you can teach music or get an industry job if performing doesn’t work out the way you hope it will? It will be much harder to go back later – and you might find that studying among other people who share your interests helps you make friends and connections that will be valuable later. You can still perform; an education would just widen your options, instead of permanently narrowing them.

@keobooks I have a relative with a Master’s in music; she teaches full time and has supported her husband in lean times. Just sayin’.

The music industry is very competitive. I once thought about going to school for music, but I realized a few things:
1. I’m not really the most talented when it comes to performing.
2. I don’t agree with the way music is taught.
3. Music colleges are wicked expensive.
4. I don’t want to study music because I believe it is a high subjective realm that is not teachable.
5. I don’t know what I’d do with my life after that, since the music business/inustry is so difficult.
6. I play music for me; I don’t care what people think of it.

I took music theory classes in high school. What I got out of them was using different techniques to composition, such as deviating from the diatonic scale or using modes, etc. That kind of stuff can help you if you are that kind of musician. However, as I said, I hate turning music into something objective. In that music theory class, we also studied Beethoven’s theories of composing. This involved things such as voice leading. No parallel octaves, no perfect fifths, don’t double the third in a major chord. WHAT? How can someone tell me what sounds good? I’ll be the judge of that myself, thank you very much. Note that other people may not agree with you, however, so some conformity may be needed to be in the music bizz. (See point #6 above ^^^)
I’m kind of assuming you want to be some sort of performer if you’re interested in heavy metal.
What grade are you in in high school? Have you only started having an interest in music since you started playing the guitar less than a year ago? Take time to consider what you want to do with your life, especially before you go to college. If you’re going to go to college for music, you will have to take those formal and classic and NO classes whether you like them or not. Or, you can go to a university to see if you like taking music classes. If not, it’s really easy to jump majors. Just have a plan B in mind. I plan on continuing music as a hobby, nothing wrong with that. Contrary to what I said earlier, I may even consider playing at a restuarant or something if I need money. And you could do that too on the side, or be in a band or something.
=========================
“Um… how the fuck do I explain her that I am who I am, will do what I want to do, no matter what she thinks?”
You don’t have to. You can do things on your own after high school if you want to. That’s what I am doing (with the exception of my dad helping me pay for college and being on their health plan). Get a job and work towards paying off a degree. You don’t have to go right away, but it may be helpful to apply during senior year to see if you qualify for any academic scholarships. Music colleges actually give scholarship money (even full rides) based on talent. Here in Boston is Berklee College of Music, which is considered “presigious” by many in the field. They don’t give a shit about your academic grades, as long as you pass. They are more interested in your musical abilities.
https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-search
^^That shows you the stats for many different colleges to prove it to you. Search as many as you want. But I really don’t think going to school for music is a cake walk. Be open-minded to things.

Please consider the possibility that your mother is right about this one.

@Seek_Kolinahr I didn’t know there was a Florida metal scene. What kind of metal? Any good bands?

@this_velvet_glove One question: Who buys your food and pays for your housing?

You want to be a musician. Got it.

As others have asked (rhetorically; we don’t need the answer, but you do), “Until then, how will you pay for your room and board?”

One presumes that you’re still living with Mom and Dad in their home, and that’s probably fine – for now, and for who knows how much longer – but how do you expect to pay them room and board until your star shines and you hit it big “overnight”? Hint: Few musicians or artists or actors or novelists “hit it big overnight”. Most of them have “day jobs” to pay the bills.

Furthermore, most artists, songwriters, playwrights, novelists, painters and sculptors and actors – study those who have gone before them in their craft. That’s how they learn the lessons (some of them, anyway) that delayed, prevented or derailed their success. It’s how they learn a repertoire of “vocabulary” in the craft without having to invent every bit of it again.

The time to say, “I’m throwing off my shackles and striking out on my own!” is not when you’ve awakened in your comfortable bed in Mom’s house, eaten the breakfast she prepared for you, had her do your laundry as you walk off in your own good time to your “beginners’” lesson in the instrument of your choice…! When you throw off those “shackles”, you do it at your own little hole-in-the-wall apartment with nothing in your cupboard and the landlord pounding on your door for your overdue rent.

@Rarebear

Local bands who have hit it big: Deicide. Cannibal Corpse. Nasty Savage. Iced Earth. Death. Malevolent Creation. Control Denied. Monstrosity. Atheist. Six Feet Under. I believe Savatage. Trivium (meh). Hate Eternal. Obituary.

The list goes on. Tampa used to be called the “Death Metal Capital of the World”. I, personally, grant that to Sweden, but hey.

Hey… So you’ve got the music end figured for your own path… fine.

But music is more than an art. It is also a business. I suggest your music career would be well served by a business, marketing, or entertainment law degree.

That would allow you to pursue your art with a fulfillment vision. It would also allow you to make a business out of servicing other musicians in the future, when your’e old and creaky.

I have two more years of highschool, yup. I’ll try to find a part-time summer job and start saving money (if I can find something, but yeah). The money won’t be much, I’m pretty sure of that. But if you add two more summers, it will be something to help me go live somewhere else when I’m 18. Then, I guess I’ll work at a bar or something. Waitress, barwoman, I don’t know. Until I find something better.
Um.. there are only two options for “college”, since I’m in Greece. Even if I got a scolarship to Berklee (after a few years), I wouldn’t be able to go there.
I might move to some other country, sometime in the future, but that’s too far away from now, and I need a lot of stuff to do that.
Oh and I’ve wanted to be a musician or a singer since I was little. But noone took me seriously, so I got my guitar just about a year ago. My mother made me promise I would sell it (my beautiful, cheap, black guitar) if the teacher said I didn’t have talent. Well, he said I did. And I had to take some kind of test that would show what I was made to do in my life, (her idea, not mine) but it helped because it showed something like 100% arts and stuff. That convinced her. I couldn’t.

I’m sure you wouldn’t be the first person in history that feels like they want to do what they want to do (whatever that may be) and not listen to their mommy. However, not only does mommy feed and house you, mommy may be smarter than you think. Education is never lost – your house can burn down and you can lose everything you own, but you’ll always have your education.

I’m also sure that you wouldn’t be the first person in history to be talented and play great music, but are waiting for their lucky break, or don’t get to play the type of music that they would like, or don’t know somebody in the music industry that can help them out. Just like talented actors who never go beyond summer stock, talented artists who sell their art on street corners to make ends meet, you very well may end up paying your bills another way while you play your music, waiting for that big break. Isn’t it better to pay your bills at a $100,000 per year job than a $7.50 per hour job?

@this_velvet_glove Just remember that anywhere you go, like someone said above, you may not be an instant success. I had a band in here about a month ago and they’ve been working hard for a long time to break through and still aren’t well-known.

I don’t see anyone telling you to shelve your dreams, but submit to an education just in case, for a fall back plan. Is your music on YouTube by chance?

You are letting her use of the term “real” distract you completely from the point, which is that for most people art is not a reliable source of income. It’s not about disparaging what you love but about being realistic about the things you can do to earn a living.

You don’t have to pay any attention to what she says or follow her advice, not unless it is a condition of receiving your parents’ material support in the form of housing, food, clothing, tuition, transportation, etc.

I think your mother will enjoy hearing you say “Sorry, Mom, you were right.”

@KNOWITALL No, I don’t have anything complete that could go on youtube yet…

@Jeruba Even if she was right, I wouldn’t tell her.

Also, I didn’t say that I’m not going to study music theory, I already do. I just don’t like the university choices I have here.

@this_velvet_glove Just remember, Justin Bieber had to take things into his own hands. This is not an industry where you can sit back and let other people do the work, you have to be AGRESSIVE, and promote yourself and get your completed tracks out there. It’s never too early to get it together bro, that’s all I’m telling you.

@this_velvet_glove: You won’t have to tell her “sorry Mom, you were right.” She’ll know she was right when she sees you struggling and working low paying jobs and taking gigs playing music you don’t necessarily like just to pay the bills (and possibly complaining about how hard it is out there).

You’ve gotten a lot of good advice here. Please take it. It’s a tougher world out there than you seem to think.

Can’t help you. You are looking at life through rose colored glasses and your mom is being practical. Do you think she didn’t have dreams and ambition before you came along? It is not to say that you may not be successful someday. Dream big and work harder and it can happen, but even the best made plans can fail. She knows this and simply wants to make sure that you can someday provide for yourself and she and you dad won’t need to support themselves and you on their social security check and your McDonalds job.

@Seek_Kolinahr of all of those I’ve heard of Iced Earth. I have the album that has the song about the battle of Gettysburg. Brilliant stuff.

I’m more of a Goth and prog metal fan rather than death metal.

The members of Savatage later went on to become Trans-Siberian Orchestra. ^_^

And, me too. Opeth. Katatonia. Dream Theatre. Fate’s Warning. That’s my style, more than anything.

@this_velvet_glove “Even if she was right, I wouldn’t tell her.”

Then you are an immature self absorbed child who obviously still needs adults to make the bigger decisions for you. Don’t risk tragedy striking tomorrow, leaving you to regret not telling those who love and care for you what they deserve to know. One day you’ll have to grow up. It’s easier if you do so voluntarily.

@dxs “we also studied Beethoven’s theories of composing”
I think you mean the counterpoint and voice leading “rules” that were developed by Bach.

Speaking from a nerdy viewpoint, I would advise studying contract law as it would only help you in your music career. Having a basic knowledge of product placement in advertising would be nice too. If you were to go in that direction it would appease your mother and also help you greatly in the real world.

If music is what you want to do, you will find a way to do it, even if you’re employed at something non-related to pay your bills.

Seriously…without a source of income, how ARE you going to buy food, clothing, shampoo, soap, pay rent, utilities, car payment, gas money…..who’s going to do all that for you while you do what you “love” and nothing else?

@this_velvet_glove Let me share my experience with you. I have been involved with music all my life, from taking lessons at a young age, learning to sing harmony by ear, band through middle and high school, all the way to two years as a music major and a 10-year music career. Add that to a brother who is started drumming professionally at 18 and is still going strong at 60+...

I admire your heart for your music, and encourage you to follow your dream. However, unless you want to really experience the life of a starving artist (try to convince a potential SO to share that life), you need to find a backup talent or source of income. A music degree would at least allow you to take a teaching job during lean times (and there will be lean times!), and you will have an opportunity to keep your chops up, and to interact with younger musicians to keep up with fresh ideas.

While I was pursuing my education and career, I found income doing some of the following day-jobs: choir director, church music director, waiter, cook, day-laborer, music teacher, cook, day-laborer, cook, day-laborer, chimney sweep, ranch hand, youth counselor, cook, day-laborer, cook…get the picture?

My brother is now supplementing his performance income by on-line lessons. He too, has washed dishes and worked day-labor.

When music was my concentration (befor

abort! abort! abort!

It feels bad to say, after the whole concept of doing what you love and fulfilling your life being told to people, but the reality is stuff like that really isn’t true for the average person. In keobook’s answer, you can see that some of those people are living off of someone else, and in Kohlinar’s answer, some of her friends are homeless.

I hope you can actually maintain a balance in your future of doing what you love, while working a mundane job that helps sustain you.

I recognize your passion for music and you don’t want to be forced to spend years in university to get a degree you don’t want.
The reality is that far better natural musicians than you who followed the course you want to who have never been able to support themselves. Maybe you can con you mother to keep supporting you. Maybe you’ll marry someone who will work her ass off to support herselve and cover your needs because she believes you have what it takes to make it in music.

If being self-sufficient, paying your own way and being responsible does not interest you, then you will never be much of a success at anything. You may manage to live on the work or charity of others for a while. You know you can’t make a career out of that just because you think you are such a good musician that you can’t fail.

You need to educate yourself to do something well enough and of sufficient value that you can be sure you will get paid to what you can do well. My daughter is a professional singer/songwriter but she is also completing a BA in Nursing so that she will always we able to support herself and her family no matter what happens. She is so talented that she could probably making it big doing just that. She’s just smart enough to make sure sure never have to depend on others to provide adequate shelter and food for herself and her family even though she has a husband who works hard and earn a great living.

Are you smart enough to follow her example? Are you just so cocky and selfish that you will do it your way no matter who ends up keeping you from hunger and homelessness?

The college I work at has an Audio Engineering Program (Bachelors Degree).

The majority of the students? Musicians, in a band. Lots of metal.

The degree is their Plan B. they’re smart enough to know that most of them will not be able to survive as musicians.

Be that smart. Have a Plan B.

I would at least learn concrete finishing. For a fall back.You can brush up on your Spanish at the same time.

Well, some people say real musicians are formally educated.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies Let me tell you something. 1) you don’t know me. hello. 2) OF COURSE I’M IMMATURE, I’M 16!! And I’ve got a lot of nerve. What the hell did you expect to hear? (and I know how to make my own desicions, thanks a lot, you seem so damn intelligent)

To everyone else who answered: I know how hard it is to make it as a musician, and I’ve seen others starve and start living on the street because they didn’t have money for rent.
And I am going to have a musical education. I just don’t like the “college” options here. And that’s one of the reasons why I mentioned finding a summer job, because there’s always need for money, and since my parents won’t have to support me when I’m over 18 years old, I need to learn how to keep a job and earn some money. I’ll probably save in order to keep going to that conservatory I mentioned in other posts.
But the thing is, I’m not afraid to go work at a bar or cafe or something like that, and give private lessons or work at a conservatory if I can.
I want the degrees I can get without going to “college”, and they’re pretty good. Since I don’t want to become a school teacher.

@this_velvet_glove: Seems you have it all figured out, then. I think I speak for the collective when I say good luck in whatever path life takes you. Please stick around here and give an occasional update as to how things are going for you.

JCA
The Update Lady

@jca I have it all figured out…? really? Um.. thanks, I suppose. And thanks for the wishes.

Thank you for your answers, everyone.. (both the ones I agree with and the ones I don’t)

@this_velvet_glove Your last post makes sense to me. Your plan “B” sounds like a good plan. I totally misread what you were saying.

@Dutchess_III I missed the edit window!

It’s a tough road and I wish you the best.

My son will be submitting applications this year to go to a conservatory after he finishes high school next year. He’s been playing his instrument for 7 years, with a very similar instrument for one year before that. He’s been taking lessons at a local conservatory for one year and will be doubling them this year, as well as taking other classes there, to prepare for college auditions… and he’s behind the other kids who will be applying. The acceptance rates for top conservatories are typically <10%. He will double major in performance (his love) and teaching (his back-up plan).

He’s hoping to be “picked up” by someone while he’s a student and go professional without finishing college.

My point, and I really hope this comes across as helpful and not condescending, is that to go professional in the US… he is behind. His classmates have been studying jazz at the conservatories for 3–4 years at least. They have had private lessons since middle school.

I keep encouraging him to consider conducting, composing, sound editing… something in addition not (something else or real) to help diversify his skills.

Times are tough. I know you know that… but the knowledge that times are tough when you’re 16 is very different than the reality when you move out of your parent’s house.

Just think through what you like… how you imagine spending your days when you are grown? What do you do when no one makes you do anything? What makes you feel like you’re flying to the moon with excitement? What makes you come home and say “Mom… I did this amazing thing today!”?

Stick with the arts… they are so important. But performing does not have the be the only aspect of your arts.

@this_velvet_glove Yeah, no one seems to be wishing you to fail, it’s just a lot of us are older and have seen how life goes, so we’re just trying to be brutally honest with you, so you’re not having regrets later.

Some children here are professionals before they’re ten years old. Everyone has a chance and if it means everything to you, you should go for it. If you’re mom didn’t care, she would probably just tell you to go and do what you want, so you should be thankful that she cares and respectfully tell her that you have your own path to take. :)

Good luck!

And I have to apologise, but it’s no small detail that you’re looking to play Metal, and you’re from Greece. I’m sure the local scene is as booming as any other local scene, but how many money-making Metal bands are there from Greece? I’m having a hard time thinking of one.

Bewized
DDakrya
Dol Ammad
Dol Theeta
FFirewind
Fragile Vastness
IInactive Messiah
MMemorain
NNightfall (band)
OOn Thorns I Lay
RRotting Christ
SSepticflesh
S cont.Sorrowful Angels
Suicidal Angels
TThou Art Lord
WWastefall

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Greek_heavy_metal_musical_groups

Yeah. I saw that list. No one notable. I might have a SepticFlesh album… I’d have to dig.

I have a question for you if you’re still here….are you hoping to become a famous musician, or do you have to do music because that’s what you have to do?

@Seek_Kolinahr Gus G has become pretty famous, and he started from the exact same city I live in… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_G
I never said I plan on staying in Greece all my life, though… The “artists” that make money here are ridiculous, believe me. Not much money for metal, I know.

@Dutchess_III Could you explain me what you mean? I don’t “have to” do music, noone ever told me anything like that… It’s just what I’ve been into since I was.. I don’t know. Really small, I guess :p And have listened to many different genres of music, from pop trash to classical music, and metal and jazz and stuff.
I just hate the fact that noone let me have lessons when I was a kid, I would be so much better now, I would know so many things that will take years and years to learn now… I had to turn 15 (last year) and take some kind of test that would show what I’m gonna do in my life, to finally get the guitar I wanted. It showed that I’m pretty much useless in all other stuff except arts. YAY. That’s what convinced my parents, not what I had been saying since the 6th grade. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that I know what I love, I know it’s not gonna be easy to become famous someday (yup that’s what I’m hoping for), but I don’t care, it’s gonna be fun anyways :D

I meant, are you driven to do music? From inside your soul? If that’s the case, you will “do” music all of your life. Maybe someday you’ll hit that one-in-a-million jackpot and become rich and famous, like every high school basket ball player dreams of. Until then, you’d best have some back up, or you’ll just be on the streets, you and your guitar, hoping people will drop dollar bills in your hat.
Assuming you move out on your own, you will have bills to pay, bills you probably haven’t even considered yet because they’re all paid for by your parents. I know I didn’t think about bills when I was 15.