What, if anything, should I do about this situation with my mother?

Next time you visit her, if the topic comes up again I think I would simply say “I think it’s best you and I don’t go over this again” and then change the subject to soemthing light hearted. You can even be jokey about it so it doesn’t cause anymosity.

First of all, good for you on working towards your degree and your eventual goal.

Next time, break the conversation off before you get as far along as your mother went. You need to set a “friendly” boundary, but a boundary none the less, so that you can just say, “oh, there are lots of opportunities ahead, so it’s hard to say which one I’ll end up with”. And, it is fair to say, “probation, parole board, police work, just have to get some experience under my belt, so working my way up from the bottom.”

The point I am trying to suggest is to deflect the conversation, and move on by changing the subject. It takes a bit of work, but don’t let yourself get dragged into her stuff.

And thank your husband for trying to get you out of there, and give him a kiss for caring about you!

Yes, stop caring. Do what you have planned.

As to being with your Mom, tell her before you visit the next time that your career path is off limits as a topic of conversation. Tell her that you have explained yourself in the past, and you are not going to do it again. If she brings it up, tell her, “Mom I said I didn’t want to talk about this.”

If she persists, leave.

Repeat as necessary.

Do you really think that she sees you as a disappointment?

I can only relate this to my personal experience.

I think my mother is upset that I live a better life and am a better parent than her.

My dad is more complicated. He thinks his job is to be devil’s advocate and make sure that I’ve thought through all options when I make a decision. He discouraged me from getting my PhD because he once knew one guy who was overqualified for a job. He discouraged me from buying a house because I might not know how to handle any emergency or issue that arose. And on and on. Sometimes, I think he provokes painful conversations as some bizarre method for mood regulation. He has chronic depression and anxiety (that he won’t acknowledge or address) and seems to love pushing people’s buttons. I think it helps him feel something or control or whatever.

So… I could see both of my parents having that same conversation with me. But I know that I am not a disappointment.

I think you’re doing the right thing. Detach… and leave the house when you need to.

I hope this doesn’t come out wrong with how I word it. Is it true that in your field with your current degree that you will make less than an RN? If it is true, then tell her you know for now it will make less money, basically acknowledge she is right about that. What can she say then? My guess is you have done this if that is the case, and she just thinks you are making a decision you will regret. Try to see it not as she is trying to be controlling or trying to put you diwn, but rather that she is concerned, and try to calm her concern, instead of you feeling like she is making you feel crap for your choices. Remove yourself from the emotional hold she has on you because she is your mother, and think of it as if a friend was saying or asking the same questions. Parents don’t understand the power they have over us. When my dad gives me advice I feel like he is trying to control, but that is in my head, not his.

Also, does your mom have a degree? Did she have a career? If no to both, she really doesn’t know much of what she is talking about possibly, and is just pulling at examples here and there of people who make what she considers a good salary. But, if she is inexperienced she does not know all that exists beyond regarding various career paths. Even people who are very successful and prosporous don’t know much about other industries and other careers.

She may have her own regrets about not having enough money. She might be very nervous for you, and the way to calm her anxiety is to talk out her worries. She may be completely unaware of what she is really doing. That saying the same thing again and again is actually a soothing technique for herself, but destructive at the same time, and selfish.

If you have done everything to acknowledge her worries and tell her you do care about her opinion, but have chosen this path for now, then in the end all you can do is set a boundary, let her know if she brings up your career you will not engage in any more conversation on the topic, and leave if she brings it up. But, if there is anyway to fix this without laying down that boundary, I suggest trying that first.

It sounds like she has transferred her ‘hopes’ to you (like a lot of parents do), thus she will probably never be satisfied, and that sucks. Either have one long drag-out battle and let it all out so you can stay in each other’s lives, or you can move on and don’t look back.

It’s kind of mean to tell your child they have no compassion, and if that is typical, I’d consider her toxic and just move on. Sorry.

At this point I think you are on the right track in trying to detach yourself from her expectations. I do know that is easier said than done, but for your own sanity it seems it might need to be your goal.

It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into picking your major and your potential career paths. You had the self-awareness to recognize early on that nursing was not for you and to change courses. You sound like a woman who knows her own mind and skill set and who plans to use those to her advantage. Keep all of those things in mind when anyone or anything tries to shake your confidence.

I think @Cupcake is on to something when she compares this to her own mom being upset by @Cupcake‘s success. Most people reach a certain age and start wondering about what might have been had they made different choices. This might be particularly acute for your mother since she is in a difficult situation herself. It is incredibly difficult to be patient with stuff like this (my dad just went after me the other night, I am in my 40’s and still left shaking and furious), but it is your best course of action. You are doing great, you are on the right track, try to hold on to that when she tries to engage you. Smile, thank her for her opinion, and get out as quickly as you can.

@JLeslie Yes, I will be making less money. And yes, I have acknowledged that. I can’t treat it as if it’s worry coming from a friend, because I would not be happy about hearing a friend say this to me either. She can worry all she wants, but it’s none of her business how much money I make. Considering I’m one of the few people she knows with a college education, you’d think she’d be proud of the fact that I’m not settling for working as a bank teller my whole life…which would actually be a step up from what the rest of them are doing. What bothers me most is that she knows it pisses me off and she continues to be condescending – the laughs, the patronizing “oh, don’t get upset!,” etc. I just want to say to her what I really feel, but I know it won’t matter.

I know I should ignore it or set a boundary, but keeping my mouth shut about it is getting harder and harder. I wish there was a way to really communicate how my mother is, because my anger about this probably sounds dramatic from an outsider’s point of view. I suspect she has a bit of a personality disorder, but her psychiatrist has never diagnosed her with one – probably because he never sees her as we do.

@KNOWITALL She’s said some pretty hurtful things to me in recent years. A few months ago, I was there waiting for a friend that was going to teach me how to coupon and my mom said, “Why would she want to do something for you when you don’t do anything for anyone else?” This was another time I had to leave before things got out of hand. Later she laughed and said she was kidding, which was a lie.

She also feels free to give me marital advice when her marriage is shit. My husband wanted to go fishing with my dad and I was going to have to stay at my mom’s with no car, so he asked me if it was okay. She heard and, after I told him it was fine as long as he was back before dark because the puppy had been home alone for awhile, she saluted me and said, “Sir yes sir!” The insinuation being that I tell Josh what to do, as a drill master would. This is one of many things she criticizes about my relationship. My goal in life is to never have a marriage like hers, so it goes without saying that her advice is unwanted.

If I were to ever show how mad I actually am, she would first laugh at me as though I’m overreacting, then get mad at me for taking myself too seriously, and then get her feelings hurt because I’m being “mean” to her. I can’t win.

One thing I have learned about relationships, especially family is that most problems come from unmet expectations.
If you want more peace in your relationship with your mom stop expecting her to be supportive. Expect her to be judgmental and accept that that is the way SHE is and it is no reflection on you or your ambition or your ability. Once you accept that she is just that way and nothing you do will change or please her you can just roll your eyes when she starts in on you and know that it’s just her, not you.

@livelaughlove21 I think you should tell her as calmly as possible how you really feel. Keeping your mouth shut is assuming she can read your mind. If she isn’t a very empathic person, she will never read between the lines or really understand why you leave in huff or get upset unless you really spell it out for her. Obviously, I don’t know your mom, so I could be wrong, she might just be mean, but most mom’s are desperate for their children to be happy and secure and what gets in the way of them communicating that well to their children is their own insecurities and their own inadequacies. Ask her why she says those things so you can find out exactly why. It will make her think about her motive and you will better understand her motive. I think you both have underlying messages not being said or not being understood. Paraphrasing each other might be a good technique if you have a discussion with her.

Edit: I also agree with @Judi that having high expectations that aren’t realistic can make people very unhappy. Also, she might be limited in what she can provide for you. It sounds like you and your husband are culturally becoming different from your family since you have higher educations and are socio-economically in a different class. It’s typical for their to be difficulties when this happens.

@livelaughlove21 I’ve mentioned several times that my mother has a mental illness as well, she has bi-polar, was depressed and like your mom, has chronic pain. For a long time she drank a LOT to cover it all up, and it made it worse.

Basically, I moved out at 17 to get away from all that, and now we are able to be close again. In between we talked on the phone and I’d go visit on occasion, but I didn’t subject myself to her toxic personality much, for my own good, so I could move on and not end up hating her. Perhaps just stay away for awhile and see what happens?

I wish you could recommend she participate in a group of some kind, to help her through some of her emotions and feelings. All that you wrote shows me that you’re all in some kind of pain, and instead of pulling together, it sounds like you’re all butting heads.

Do you remember @norfursbelow’s posts on another Q by chance? She was talking about how sometimes she gets going on a Q or on a negative path (if others are ON her too much) and she can’t stop? I wonder if your mom feels that way, like she can’t help herself, because that would be a symptom of her illness, which she may be unaware of, and it may also be treatable.

There are also a lot of misdiagnosis in mental illness still at this point, but depression can cause a LOT of negativity and erratic behavior (even suicide), even with people you love, maybe that will help you not take it personally (but it’s your MOM, I get it, trust me.)

I don’t normally read long posts, for some reason I did. Congratulations on knowing your own mind, and getting out of life what YOU want and continuing to succeed with this. You’ve got a great career ahead of you and the love and support of your husband. A lot of people don’t have this.
Your mum sounds a little like mine, unless you think like she does, them you are wrong. Maybe your mum is jealous because she didn’t have the ambition that you do, and that she is stuck with a miserable man, and miserable thoughts day in day out ( not disrespect there, I have mh, so I know how miserable she can be).
I would try and get along with your mum while you are there, nod at the right times etc. Carry on with your work, do what you want, and what makes you happy. You are not a disappointment. I’m sure she is really quite proud of you.

Tell her “ok, I’ll think about it. That’s a possibility” next time she makes a career suggestion. Then change the subject. If she tries to steer the conversation back to careers, steer it back to whatever you just switched it to.

@jca That’s a concept I’m definitely not comfortable with. I’m not giving her that satisfaction when she’s the one being unnecessarily judgmental. I won’t think about it, because a lot of thought and research went into my choices and she’s giving me absolutely nothing to think about.

I’d much rather stand up for myself (but I know it won’t help) or set the boundary and remove myself from the situation if she goes there.

I guess I’m just not that nice.

You can tell your mom that you would love to get your Phd and then ask her for the money for the PHD and to pay your current loans till you are employed. The mention of a loan will usually make people shut up. Follow it by saying you won’t be able to pay her back until your current loans are paid for.
Bet she won’t bring it back up.

I unfortunately don’t think you need to tell your mom anything. I personally think it sounds to me like she is the master of manipulation. In a situation like this manipulators are very cunning. Whatever you tell her is going to come back to bite you in the ass. I think you need to limit your visits, and limit the information you tell her. Or you can just let everything she says fly over your head and never take any seriousness to what she says, why should you get all worked up, sounds like shes never to serious, but she loves pulling your apron strings. Manipulators don’t change unless they want to.

If you can’t beat em you might as well join em.

That’s just what I think.

Wow. There’s a great deal of pain and frustration in your question. Isn’t it so hurtful when family members turn toxic? Instead of enjoying their company, we start to dread seeing or talking with them. Rather than being able to trust them for love and acceptance, we’re continually on edge and waiting for the next hurtful incident.

I think you did the ideal thing when you disengaged from that conversation and calmly walked out. You didn’t throw a temper tantrum; you acted maturely and stepped away from a useless discussion.

Is it possible that your mother resents you for having grown up and built a life of your own? You say that she was nice when you were a child. Lots of parents want their kids to stay young and dependent forever. When the kids start making their own decisions and no longer look for constant guidance, it’s as if something’s been stolen from the parents.

@livelaughlove21 I don’t think @jca is talking about giving her satisfaction, it is basically taking the wind out of your mom’s sails. Once you agree, she has nothing more she can say. It is lying to out manipulate her. Maybe you dn’t have to think of it as lying, but whatever we call it, it would be a maneuver to get her to stop.

@livelaughlove21: When you do it your way, you are letting her “get a rise out of you.” Someone who has very little going on in their life ( your mom) gets their kicks that way. Your way, you are giving her what she wants (getting you mad). My way, IMHO, is easier. You just “yes” her and do what you want.

@jca I’m sure you’re right; that type if thing just doesn’t come easy to me. If I did tell her she’s right or that she’s given me something to think about, it would be dripping with sarcasm and she’d know.

Don’t engage. Don’t engage. Don’t engage. Don’t engage.

Say it over to yourself.

Don’t engage.

One of the biggest (and, for some of us, hardest and slowest) lessons of adulthood is to internalize the realization that our survival no longer depends on the approval of our parents. You’ve done a nice job of establishing this. Now you just have to feel it. Once you do, it’s very liberating.

You can’t win for losing. My mother was much like that. When I sold my house in Wichita to move to this town Mom told me that it was a really bad idea because I would lose some on my income tax. I rented here for 4 years, got a stable job and started looking for new house to buy. Mom said that was a really bad idea because I had no idea what is required to run a home you own (I had lived in my other house for 13 years, the last 3 by myself, due to divorce.) Whatever I did, it was a bad idea.

You can’t win for losing so don’t even try. If you became a wildly successful lawyer, she’d want to know why you weren’t a judge. Then a Senator. Then the President.

Change the subject, anything. Get her talking about herself.

@Dutchess_III My dad is just like that. When I decided to move to Florida I was a mess. He was the one who had suggested it a few years before (which he doesn’t remember) and then when I decided to move he had all sorts of reasons why I shouldn’t. I was an emotional mess at the time it was true. I had just graduated college, incredibly stressful time for young people, moved back home, and began to fall apart being back in close proximity to my exboyfriend. The break up had happened 9 months before and had left me an anxiety ridden mess. Finally, I had been more normal until I moved back home and the world felt like it was crashing down again. Anyway, I was barely able to function and my mom said, “just go, and if it doesn’t work out, you’ll come back home.” Thank God for that one sentence. I tell this story because I think @Jeruba said it really well, eventually we need to listen only to the supportive people and our own internal voice, and ignore the negative ones.

Point of clarification:

I think @Jeruba said it really well, eventually we need to listen only to the supportive people and our own internal voice, and ignore the negative ones.

That might be fine advice, @JLeslie, but it isn’t what I said. I’d appreciate not being reinterpreted, thanks.

I said we needn’t base our actions and decisions on our parents’ approval.

I do think having someone who can give you a caring, timely warning is valuable when you’re on the wrong track, and I don’t consider that everyone who disagrees with me is being negative. (Maybe I’m being negative!) But I wouldn’t (didn’t) have to persuade my parents to agree with me on everything I did, and I would not expect my sons to insist that we and they see things alike.

@livelaughlove21: I’m not saying tell her she’s right about anything. I’m saying “yes” her to death.

“Oh ok. Yes. I know what you’re saying. Did you make that cake recipe you said you were going to try?”

“Graduate degree? Oh, did I tell you that Janey’s daughter is going for her Master’s? Yes, she got accepted into Fordham. Is that a chipmunk in your yard?”

“Yes,” and then change subject. Simple. No arguing, no submission, just keep it simple.

You need exit lines to use when she does the things that annoy you. They don’t even have to make sense. “Oops. I think I left my oven on” followed by an abrupt and fast exit. “It’s 3:17. I have to go.” “I promised the dog I’d be back by now.” “Looks like rain.” “Can’t sit still any longer.” “I have to change my shoes.” “Bye, Mom.” Whatever. Get out of there. Maybe she’ll catch on that it’s her choice of topic that is making you exit precipitously. You do NOT have to sit there an take it again and again. You can explain it when she calls to find out what’s going on.

@Jeruba I agree with everything you said about parents and about timely warnings.

There isn’t anything you can do to change your mother. That’s who she is. All you can do is change your reaction.

You’re happy with your life and your decisions – so don’t participate in her discussions. Change the subject, go to the loo (I used to do this often with my stepmother), go home.

You have to take away her power by not letting her get to you. Not easy I know but it’s the only way to manage this. She is who she is and you are who you are. Accept the two are probably never going to mix well.

” All you can do is change your reaction.” Excellent. I have a pretty good example of that. When my daughter was 16 she had a know-it-all attitude that drove me nuts. Her favorite line was “Oh, Muuuutherrrr. I know whut I’m doing!” Hell, she had had a baby at that point, had already proven she didn’t “know” what she was doing. (Long story, what a heart breaking mess.)

That drove me nuts, and she knew it. I’d kind of lose it and we’d end up arguing. Finally I thought about it in a quiet moment and realized she had control of my emotions because she knew how to push that button. I came up with a comeback.

From then on, everytime she said, “Oh, Muuuutherrrr. I know whut I’m doing!”
I’d say, quietly, with unshakeable firmness and authority, “No. You don’t.” Because she didn’t. Just that and nothing more. Calm, cool, and decisive. It drove HER nuts and it wasn’t long before she quit saying it.

Your big mistake was in answering any questions from your mother.
It takes two to fight, and if one shuts down the other is left with no arguement.
You don’t have to expalin anything to anyone.
Perhaps your mother wants you in the future to take her in?
Hense the questions about earnings etc.

@Inspired_2write Ain’t gonna happen! I already told her no when she asked if she could hypothetically stay with us if she needed time away from my step-father. It wouldn’t take long before she made my husband and I hate coming home every day.

@livelaughlove21
If your mother is having that ind of abuse, then refer her (or give her a phamplet) on Win House.
A safe house for her to go to.
She is obviously looking for a safe place, and at these Win House Shelters she can obtain
therapy assistance too.

@Inspired_2write There’s no abuse and there’s nothing unsafe going on in her home. They just have a bad marriage. They sleep in separate beds, spend no time together, generally dislike each other, and they refuse to get a divorce. He can be a bit of an ass, but she also says very hurtful things to him (and everyone). She just enjoys playing the part of the victim.

1. Sleep in separate beds
2. Spend No time together
3. Dislike each other
4. Refuse to Divorce
Walk, no run away far from this drama and unhealthy toxic relationship.

It’s her PARENTS @Inspired_2write. Her mom and dad. Not some friendship or boyfriend. She’s trying to figure out how to maintain some sort of a relationship with her mother and father. Just telling her to “leave” doesn’t help.

Also, she was just explaining to you why there is no danger, nothing that her mother has to be protected from. That’s why she even brought it up. The relationship between her mom and dad is only a small part of her dilemma.

@Inspired_2write Are you saying I should run from their relationship or one of them should?

If you mean one of them, it probably won’t ever happen. Some people just stay miserable together forever, and my parents are those people. They’ve been together for 20 years and I guess divorcing would be more trouble than they’re willing to deal with.

If you mean me, then I’m not sure why I would do that. What does that quality of their marriage have to do with me? I stay out of their drama as much as I can. My marriage is just dandy, an that’s the only marriage that’s any of my business. And it’s hard to “run away” when you live 3 miles away.

I’m not sure what any of this has to do with my question though.

I almost hate to say this, but you’re doing this to yourself. Just the length of all these back and forth posts shows that. You are proud of what you’ve accomplished, and rightly so. You’d like everyone you love to show the same pride in your accomplishment and in a perfect world – well that’s not where we live is it? She aggravates you, she knows how to push your buttons, she does it every time you see her and you know this, yet you continue to put yourself in the situation. Three miles can be as close or as far as you care to make it. If you don’t like being treated in this way. Then don’t go to places where the people treat you like that. Period. You need a little distance, and maybe more than a little time away.