Edward Snowden is being charged with espionage, something that is very rare, and indicative of an extreme offense. WDYT?

I’m glad he did what he did. I didn’t know how widespread and invasive the government monitoring program had become. I hope he doesn’t get extradited. I don’t want to live behind the Iron Curtain. I live in the US.
If I disappear you’ll know who got me.:)

President Obama has declared a war on the Whistle-Blowers… he has charged 17 Whistle-Blowers with Espionage. Whistle-Blowers should be respected as HEROES instead of being charged with capital crimes.

I think the charges escalted when he began conspiring with the Chinese government. He did a good thing in revealing the NSA program but I wish he had not started up with the chinese. There are a lot of mixed emotions about him and it’s not clear if his motives were good. The charges will depend on his motives. I think there is more to learn before this is over.
but it will be difficult for anyone else to step forward with the Gestapo waiting in the wings.

He is charged with violating the Espionage Act, but not being charged with Espionage, which is spying. @Linda_Owl It is not a capital crime.

The charges are appropriate given what he did, and I agree with @Jaxk that it was the sharing with China that crossed a line. As far as disclosing what the US has been doing for years and years, he only really revealed details of programs that have been disclosed for twenty years.

Espionage, like treason, involves giving aid to an enemy. So unless the current government of the United States considers the American people to be among its enemies, Snowden cannot be guilty of either espionage or treason. Snowden did not sell his secrets to the highest bidder, nor has he yet told anyone anything that he has not told everyone. His intent was to protect the civil liberties of American citizens. So while he may have broken the law, espionage is not the proper word for it.

@zenvelo First of all, espionage and spying are not the same thing under US law, and are in fact dealt with in two separate sections of the US Code (10 USC Section 906 and 18 USC Chapter 37, respectively).

Second, there is only one thing that a person can be charged with under the Espionage Act: espionage. While the specific charge can vary depending on which section of the act one is accused of violating, to be charged under the Espionage Act is to be charged with espionage for that is the crime that it details.

Third, some violations of the Espionage Act are, in fact, capital crimes (see 18 USC Section 794). Regardless, @Linda_Owl was discussing whistle blowers more generally. As such, she may have in mind Bradley Manning, who currently faces the possibility of death under 10 USC Section 904 Article 104.

We have a right to know what our government is doing. They are supposed to be working for us after all. This right is more fundamental that the government’s right to know what we are doing. To think otherwise is to believe in dictatorship.

Technology has put a magic ball into the hands of our leaders. They can now see what we do and what we think. They want to use this power in secret, that’s why they are so keen to prosecute Snowden. But the issues are too important to be decided in secret. They should be debated in public. We need to clarify how information about us can be obtained and used.

Debated in public, @flutherother ? You mean like the obstructionists do in Congress? Like the conspiracists do on the Net? Like the “pundits” do on Fox? Hey, I’m all for open, honest debate by people who know what they’re talking about, but nowadays, I’m not seeing much of that in public.

@Pachyderm_In_The_Room All of the above. At least Snowden has let us see there is something to talk about.

Snowden bit the hand the fed him very well. He had clearance and in doing so agreed that he would be charged if he violated it. The gov’t is doing what Snowden and his employer agreed upon when he signed on the bottom line and began collecting his checks.

This will be a big government show trial, for publicity purposes, nor for justice.

He will not be found guilty.

Snowden will end up in the Chinese “witness protection” system working under an assumed name at a chicken slaughter house or pig processing plant. No one will even notice, when he is doesn’t get his bowl of rice for the day.
.
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And there is extra protein in the chicken feed.

It is just another example of US retribution, targeting a man who dared to stand up to evil and show the world just how elected representatives have used the power given to them by the people of the US. But because it is a spanner in the works of the imperial machine, he will be hunted for the rest of his life. Of course the charges should be dropped, and he should receive an official apology, but this will never happen.

I work for the phone company, and I have seen the equipment that is being used, so it wasn’t a surprise to me, and I have had years to consider it. Yes, even during the Bush administration, when my outrage should have fully flowered, but I knew my responsibilities.
I am a constitutionalist, and I realize this program is not completely legal, though it may have to filter through the court system before that decision is made. I know these are heady days, and I appreciate that the administration is saying that many terrorist acts have been defeated due to this program.
I will reserve outrage until I see that the program is being misused.

I really wish we had 2008 campaign Obama back. You know, the one whose platform included this (see page 7):

Protect Whistleblowers: Often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government is an existing government employee committed to public integrity and willing to speak out. Such acts of courage and patriotism, which can sometimes save lives and often save taxpayer dollars, should be encouraged rather than stifled as they have been during the Bush administration. We need to empower federal employees as watchdogs of wrongdoing and partners in performance. Barack Obama will strengthen whistleblower laws to protect federal workers who expose waste, fraud, and abuse of authority in government. Obama will ensure that federal agencies expedite the process for reviewing whistleblower claims and whistleblowers have full access to courts and due process.

@LuckyGuy I don’t buy that justification. Yes, what Snowden did was an act of civil disobedience; and yes, those who engage in civil disobedience must accept the fact that they face the possibility of punishment for their actions. But if what the government did was wrong, and what Snowden did is right, then the fact that Snowden had to be prepared for prosecution in no way shows that the prosecution is just. You might as well say that civil rights activists deserved to be attacked by dogs and have firehoses turned on them just because they knew that was a possible consequence of protesting. The defense you give is nothing more than “just following orders” adapted for a domestic setting.

@filmfann The program predates the September 11 attacks, so I don’t buy any of the War on Terror justifications. And even if the program has prevented “many terrorist attacks,” that in no way shows that they could not have been prevented through other means. You say that you want to reserve your outrage until you see that the program is being misused, but we know that the program is being misused because it’s very existence is an abuse of the Fourth Amendment.

If this were a targeted effort aimed at specific individuals for whom individual warrants had been issued, I could accept it. But warrants cannot be issued for the entire American population, nor for the unlimited collection and decryption of data. The whole point of a warrant is to be an exception: they allow specific instances of behavior that would be illegal if practiced on everyone or without limits. That the FISA courts have failed to observe such a basic principle of the law itself shows that the program is already being misused.

@SavoirFaire I haven’t seen anything that states this program predates the 9/11 attacks. Source?
Whether this program is illegal or not does not mean it is being misused. If they are arresting people for drug sales, and getting their information from this equipment, then it is obviously being misused. If they are only arresting terrorists, I’m not convinced.

@filmfann Sources from last time this story broke (2006–2007): [1], [2], [3].

Source from this time around: [1].

As for knowing that the program is being misused, I don’t see how we can ignore the fact that it violates the Fourth Amendment. Even if we are prepared to overlook this fact, however, the fact is that the NSA is legally restricted to foreign affairs. Collecting intelligence regarding domestic communications is a misuse of the agency’s authority in the first place.

Smart enough to hack into everyone’s shit, but not smart enough to use an alias? That’s a little strange

@cheebdragon Snowden is not a hacker. He was a technical contractor and system administrator who had access to all of this data as part of his job. And that’s one of the reasons he needed to do this publicly: he needed his employment to be verifiable. Another reason is that he wanted people to be able to connect the dots if he “disappeared” after releasing his information. If AwesomeHackerGuy1337 stops logging in to his favorite sites, maybe he just adopted a new username. If Edward Snowden goes missing, people will be more suspicious.

How is he not a hacker? It doesn’t matter who he worked for since I’m pretty sure that china never gave us the green light to spy on their shit.

How long did “Dick” remain anonymous after watergate? 30 or 40 something years?

By “Dick”, you are referring to the President.
The undercover source for Woodward and Bernstein was called “Deep Throat”.
I do understand how you can confuse those two, but I hope it only happens here.

@cheebdragon I cannot attest to what Snowden may have done in his personal life, but his job at Booz Allen did not require him to personally crack any databases. There was a system in place to do so, and Snowden had access to the information in virtue of being the system administrator.