How to move forward on possible grooming for molestation ?

It seems unlikely to me that you would not have discussed your concerns with her parents. What do they say? Have they met him? Have you?

If I were the girl’s parent, I would be concerned, and I would want to be “in his face” a little so that he knew he was being observed. I would also be talking to other parents to find out if he was as “friendly” with both his male and female students. If only his female students… something is wrong here. Even if he means no harm, he should be well aware that his actions could easily be misconstrued, and that it could put his job in peril.

I agree with @glacial . As the parent I would send him an email saying you have been reading “Katlyn’s” mail and discussing the situation and appreciate his support.

It shows:
1) You are being a supportive parent/guardian without being accusatory.
2) You discuss this situation with her and she knows when the line is crossed.
3) You are watching him like a hawk.
4) You are collecting evidence.

Call Child Protection Services today.

This has way crossed the line Even if the teacher does the same stuff with ten other girls, it is way over the line of having a proper relationship with an adolescent student. Sounds more like he is grooming ten possible victims and not just one.

I say you should report him to Child Protection Services. There is too much risk that calling the school or just talking to the parents will fall on dismissive ears. But a teacher should not be emailing a student unless the parents or others are copied on the email. And a teacher should never be paying for something without the school and the parents knowing.

@zenvelo

I think you are over-reacting by a landslide when you say report him. That will kill his career and social life. Although that level of involvement does feel a bit odd but some teachers can be quite fond of their students and want to help them.

I like @LuckyGuy‘s suggestion… that works perfectly.

Furthermore you can check if he has any previous offenses as a child molester. Also get the girl a cell phone or something that will help he relay for help in case of emergency.

IMO, when I was 12, I was well aware of shady relationships. I didn’t need to be babied. I am not sure why this girl may not be equally well suited to do so.

I think you should also sit down with her and explain your concerns to her based on what is going on. Tell her what you think might happen and ask her what she wants. If she comes up with an answer that raises alarms then more severe steps need to be taken. If not, you still let her parents or principal know. And do ask her if its ok if you can be included in the emails etc.

The teacher has stepped over the boundaries. Emailing in the early hours of the morning is wrong. Offering to pay for her is wrong. Asking to see pictures of her is wrong. Joking about coming to live with him is wrong.

It isn’t your niece that needs to be aware of the dangers it is those responsible for her welfare. The teacher has to be told you don’t like it that should be enough to stop it. If it isn’t then report him

I have a question….why does it matter if the email was sent at 4:00 AM or 4:00 PM? How does the time of it amount to ANYTHING?

And the request to see a picture in the context previously mentioned seems legitimate. Several teachers ask for pics of students in their prom clothes. Just so they have something to remember them by.

@raven860 Asking students in a class mass email to send in pictures while the parents know is great. Sending an email to be “awaiting” a girl checking her mail in the morning to send a picture is skeevy. Yes it DOES matter if it is the afternoon or the morning, because parents with cursory oversight over their kids may be aware of something being mailed in the afternoon but not in the small hours of the morning.

And we had a teacher that started off this way with a 14 year old student he was tutoring. First nice emails that were just like these, then texts, then it escalated.

And in an instance like this, you report him to CPS because people in the school will say the same thing as you @raven860, saying don’t ruin his career while he has crossed lots of lines (as @flutherother pointed out), meanwhile a kid gets put in at what is at best an awkward situation, with nothing but downside risk.

I still think reporting him on the mere facts presented here is not the right action. There are a lot of assumptions being made…and I think people jumping on a bandwagon with torches screaming witch will crucify an innocent person. Just because one tutor turned out to be a pedophile, does not mean all helpful tutors are the same. They each are an independent case and should be treated as such.

I am not saying that, this case does not warrant attention and be completely dismissed. I am saying that making accusations would be immature but observation and attention is required and the right way to go about it.

Keep in mind that the OP is a secondary source of information. However I must admit that the OP did a good job of trying to keep her writing neutral and not incriminating.

Also why on Earth are 13 year olds not capable of reporting themselves? They are not 5–8 year olds and if she is mentally/emotionally disturbed and hence unable to protect herself then she should be receiving special care for those issues.

For photos, no a class photo is different. Some teachers grow close to one or two students and form a special relationship with them. They ask for pics that they can tag at their desk. Its not an unusual request. As for texting and emailing…to a certain limit…its okay but beyond that it can be inappropriate with any other adult.

What he is doing is wrong. Get together with her parents and tell him to stop. Make copies and keep them in case someone else has the same experience.

Maybe you can call the school and request an email address for the principal. Then copy and paste what you have listed above to it, and ask him / her when would be a good time to discuss all of this in person.

Any responsible adult will see your concerns as being very legitimate, and even if he is just trying for Teacher of the Year, this guy needs to know that some of his actions have a bad smell to them….

P.S. Everybody should have at least one aunt like you.

I am leaning toward @LuckyGuy and @glacial‘s response.

Direct contact and some more direct inquiries are in order before action is taken.

I have met people male and female who were very courteous and thoughtful people with no malice or twisted intent. They just love their job and helping people.

On the other hand it is never a bad idea to get involved and your concern is natural and maybe even warrented.

My employer’s policy on this is to contact CPS and our Family Service Counselors immediately. State law requires the teachers and child care workers to contact the proper authorities, my employer expanded it to include all employees.

We also get continuing education on this to make sure we know what is and is not reportable. This would be reportable under our policies, but our practice is to err on the side of protecting the children in our care.

Btw, I know of a story too. Once there were these Indian grandparents visiting from India. In the evening they decided to take a walk around the neighborhood of their son’s home ( where they were staying). They saw a little Chinese kid (2–3 year old) and thought he was adorable. They touched his cheek and tugged on it slightly to show their affection and were immediately slapped as being molesters of sorts and were ordered to stay ___ meters away from the area. Ridiculous people.

I should add, I work for a school and the teacher’s actions in this case are not acceptable under any circumstances.

@WestRiverrat

Since they are guidelines I can see why the OP’s description of activities might violate them. Keep in mind that those guidelines are implemented with a holistic view of things…one in which false positives are acceptable…since they don’t want to be liable for legitimate ones that never were caught. I am not saying its the wrong idea but it also means many legitimately concerned teachers will fall in the trap. As a liability point of view, I am sure no school wants any involvement of the teacher outside of the classroom.

My point is that just because an individual’s actions violate the schools guidelines, it does not automatically make them a pedophile.

@WestRiverRat I can understand that but I work in a nursing home with required mandatory reporting as well.

I realize that it is sometimes easier to try to sort some situations out that are more borderline or grey. Even if it involves getting the head staff involved first. If they think reporting is necessary I will. If they didn’t advise it and I didn’t feel the situation was properly handled I would also report it.

However I have not had to do that. People are individuals and as such they will make mistakes. They also children or elderly have different requirements and can flower if given a positive role model. Some of us just enjoy seeing that happen. We are also told not to get too attached. It can be painful but the rewards and benefits out weigh the negative most days.

I don’t want to live in a world where caring for people in a non sexual way is criminal.

People who you got in the field to help can see the difference. I feel like caring and occasionally going the extra mile… buying them a treat or doing shopping for something special etc… is not a negative thing in and of itself.

Too bad people are not that concerned about drunk drivers their children share the streets with. He asked to see a picture of her in a dress.– In context, it was because she was joking to him about actually wearing a dress for her eighth grade graduation. She usually wears tomboy clothing. Did he suggest what type of dress she should wear, IE plunging neckline, thigh high slit, curve hugging, a micro mini etc? Or her dressing tomboyish and saying she would wear a dress to the dance, made it more like, “You in a dress? I would love to see that.”, or “If you wear a dress, send me a photo as proof, I don’t believe you will do it; I will see a flying pink elephant before you wear a dress”, type of conversation. When I was young lad in school, ancient history I know, my teacher paid for me to go to a summer art program because we were too poor to afford it. She did not do it for anyone else that I know of. Is she supposed to be bad because of it? Emailing all the time, I think that is excessive even between adults if it is not about business. I also told her to be aware if he is singling her out with special attention and presents. And not to get into any situation where she may be alone with him. You have told her but you still think she is too ignorant to understand? You can always try to get her interest in the most popular jock at school, surely her chances to end up as merchandise would be less, or maybe some band geek looking to have something to speak of in the locker room. I say you need to investigate more on how the actual conversations had gone before making some career-ending accusation. If only people were as concerned about who was driving the streets their kids walked and rode their bikes on.

@glacial I have spoken to her mother and to her guardians (my parents). Her father is not in the picture. Her mother has mental health issues. And her guardians are concerned, of course. But they are basically deferring to me, as they don’t even quite understand the concept of molestation or grooming. They still think it’s uncommon, a creepy guy in an alley, and that their granddaughter will see it coming.

I’m also unsure how to talk to other parents without spreading gossip and rumors about something that might be completely unwarranted.

@LuckyGuy
That was my first instinct. But I’m worried about two things in that scenario. One, it doesn’t address any other children who are also in his care. And two, I don’t want to embarass her if this is all untrue. I think there is a tacit agreement when we agreed that we will monitor her email, that we will not freak out and blow things out of proportion (ie start a witchhunt
for one of her favourite teachers). I want to keep these lines of communication open.

@raven860 I’ve already checked, though most cases (and therefore, most perpetrators) are not reported.

My niece is smarter than her age in some ways. And more naive in others. Unfortunately, I think her situation and home life (feeling angry, unloved and invalidated) leaves her to be more vulnerable in these situations.

@raven860 Again, lots of grey area. Nothing technically wrong with emailing early in the morning. It just makes me a little uncomfortable that he’s thinking about my niece at 4:30 in the morning. That’s usually your downtime reserved for your peers. Messing around time. Again, grey area.

Also, she already has a cell phone. But if they do a good job of grooming them, most victims don’t report it. They don’t even know that they’ve been victimized until much later.

@YARNLADY I’ve taken screenshots of several emails. But after her other aunt and I confronted her about it, she went and deleted most of the emails. That was a red flag to me.

@OneBadApple That might not be a bad idea. Unfortunately I live several hours away.

I agree. If this guy is okay, he should also know that some of his actions could be easily misread.

@WestRiverrat I’d be curious to know what’s reportable for you guys. Also, in what capacity do you work with children?

@Unbroken I don’t want to live in that kind of world either. It makes me sad just asking this question.

@Hypocrisy_Central Yes, there are a lot of other things out there to worry about. Stupid high school drama, you go to college. You move on. Drunk driving? You buckle up, you drive defensively, you avoid driving late at night on major drinking holidays. It’s a measured risk you take. It’s not something that haunts you and messes with your head.

Take a look at this Wikipedia page discussing Gavin deBecker’s book The Gift of Fear. A little ways down the page you will see a list of what deBecker calls Pre-Incident Indicators or PINS. Read through them then go through all you know about what has been happening between your niece and this teacher. If you see these things happening it is time to take action. If you feel as though jumping right into calling CPS might be overreacting, contact the principal or another school administrator.

I agree with the people who say that reporting him could be overreacting, at least given the limited information. The main problem with reporting him is that the negative publicity could ruin his career, even if your suspicions turn out to be incorrect.

If you file a formal report and accuse him of being a possible child molester, the teacher will be suspended indefinitely, and the story will appear on television during the local news, and there will be a lot of people who assume guilty-until-proven-innocent. This will occur well before any investigation has reached any official conclusion. You need to be confident before you take this step.

Out of everything that you have said, the part about “he invites her on special outings” is the most alarming. If molestation is occurring, that’s where it is going to occur. The explanation is that the teacher running a teen program. That should be something that you could easily verify. If he’s telling the truth, then it is unlikely that he is a potential child molester. If he’s not telling the truth, then that raises red flags.

Verifying the existence of the teen program is something that you should do as your next step. Preferably, you should find a way to do this without mentioning child molestation, because that will make everything flow more smoothly.

Excellent advice from @SuperMouse. Please schedule a meeting with the principal.

@fluthernutter I do wish you the best and hope everything turns out to be aboveboard.

@SuperMouse did give excellent advice.

I have seen cases where calling CPS has totally ruined a life unjustly. I would start by scheduling a meeting with the teacher and discussing your concerns about your niece’s vulnerability and what you perceive as his inappropriate behavior. Then you can monitor it and see if it changes and if not, go to the headmaster before CPS.

I was cured of some of my shyness by appropriate loving attention from a wonderful teacher but I certainly understand and validate the concerns you have.

4:30 AM is when most people sleep. Your niece might be right that his army background allows him to wake up that early. It might be the only time he has some free time to write emails…he is a teacher after all.

Ok all of you that would give the teacher the benefit of the doubt. If he turns out to be a pedophile and because you choose to talk to him and not report him, when he moves to another city, sets up shop and starts molesting again. How will you live with yourselves knowing you had a chance to stop him and chose not to?

@WestRiverrat

Pitchfork & Torches much?

How would you live with yourself when you learn the guy was innocent and in fact the rare breed of highly supportive teachers…whose life is now destroyed in one of the worst possible ways…?

The thing that set the bells off for me: the remark that your niece could live with him.

Meet with the school principal immediately, at a minimum.

@fluthernutter Have you read these emails yourself? If not, I would be worried that a lot of assumptions are being made based on a 13-year old’s version of events. She probably is excited to have the teacher’s attention, and may be making more out of it than is actually there. After all, she clearly doesn’t understand that his reputation and job could be at risk here.

@raven860 It’s your type of thinking that tells people “don’t rock the boat, this guys career is more important than the risk to the child”

I’d rather risk damage to someone’s reputation (when his behavior is not excusable anyway and is inappropriate) than risk sexual battery on a child.

This guy may be innocent of intent but his actions are not appropriate!

If the guy is innocent he will stop his inappropriate actions when he is made aware that he crossed a line. If he knowingly violated the code of conduct, he doesn’t deserve to be a teacher, and should at minimum be fired. If he continues to violate that code of conduct, he should be fired.

Regardless, if no one is made aware of the situation, it cannot be corrected.

Just logged in to say, please don’t ruin this guy’s life without more than some emails. Absolutely approach whoever you’re most comfortable with, find out more, and do what you need to do to feel like your family is safe, but recognize the damage you can cause and don’t take shortcuts. Why not talk to him, or at least meet him, to see if that calms some of these fears?

I would 100% be this guy and the reactions here make me scared to interact with children. I understand your concern and more experienced people than me have said he’s over the line, but from your description I would see

1) A young girl who doesn’t necessarily receive a lot of adult attention, at an important part of her life, deciding who she is as a person
2) Someone who could probably use at least one more adult adviser that she trusts
3) Someone who needs to know she is special to someone, her father is gone, her mother has a lot on her plate, and there’s a reason people don’t have kids after 50. (please don’t take this as me saying anyone is doing a poor job in raising her. It’s amazing that her family has stepped in and taken an interest)
4) All those lead to her maybe not having the opportunities to explore everything that some of her peers might be able to. We all need help expanding our horizons.

All those things would lead me to spend extra time, and give extra attention to her. Especially if she’s bright, and shows an interest in things I have knowledge of. This would also fit closely with the type of person who would join the military and enjoy that level of structure (wake up early, take care of others, nothing happens on my watch).

Teachers that took an interest eventually led to my career and my wife’s career. We want teachers to take an interest, we want them to go above and beyond, and we want more than just curriculum.

Of course we also want everyone to be safe and that comes first. So verify his intentions, but why not simply go to him to start? If you come away feeling something is off, then start up the chain or whatever you feel is appropriate, but I’d want to look him in the eye first before accusing him of anything.

All that said, for your niece I’d say thanks for being interested and thank you for helping her out. She’s lucky to have you.

@PhiNotPi Yes, I’ve looked into the teen program. Though I wasn’t particularly worried that it was a fake program. That seems unnecessarily convoluted and easily found out.

I’m more concerned about him offering to go on rides with her at an amusement park. It’s a public place. But a two person ride is semi-private.

@Unbroken Thanks. Me too.

@raven860 He’s not a teacher per se. He runs the after school program. But, yes, the 4:30 thing is not a huge concern.

@WestRiverrat and @raven860
Yes. That’s the whole point of this dilemma. How to cover all possible scenarios? How do I move forward while protecting the rights of all parties involved?

@redheaded1 It only concerns me as one part of many. By itself, it’s understandable because if you knew what her home life was like, you’d invite her to live with you too. sigh

@glacial Yes, I’ve read them myself. Quite the opposite. She assures us it’s not a big deal. I might have left it at that had she not deleted all of those emails. That was a red flag to me.

@funkdaddy I absolutely hear all that you’re saying. That’s why I’m weighing all of this heavily. Rest assured, I’m not taking any of it lightly.

Her guardians are doing the best that they can. But besides a generation gap, there’s also a culture gap. That’s partially why my other sister is pushing to adopt her. A well-meaning gesture that is adding more turmoil to this young girl’s life. But that is for another question/comment/time.

It’s such a catch 22. She is at a time in her life when she could really benefit from someone like this (if he is aboveboard). And at the same time, she’s so vulnerable to someone like this (if he’s not).

Contacting him personally was my initial instinct. However, I live several hours away. I don’t think I would be able to appropriately gauge him over online correspondence.

I can’t have my sister (the other aunt who wants to adopt her) go in my stead. She already composed an email basically accusing and threatening him. She’s the “goes in with guns blaring” type. Which can be great in some situations, but probably not the best for this. I, basically, had to call off the dogs.

I also don’t want to embarrass my niece if he’s a legit guy. And I don’t want to just protect her if he’s not.

What a tough situation, and such a hard call to make. Having been sexually abused myself, I am very sensitive to threats like this. If she were my child, I’d be very concerned.

One factor I haven’t seen mentioned is whether or not she may have a crush on this guy (she may have been manipulated into one or just have a naturally occurring one.) If so, it’s even more troubling because even if he steps clearly over the line, she may actually feel happy about it, and wouldn’t tell you. Been there, done that. At the time I was thrilled when a grown man wanted my young teenage self, and was a willing participant. Only later did I realize how sick that whole dynamic was. If there is any possibility that she’s feeling similar, you just can’t count on her to protect herself – no matter how much advice you give her.

All of that said, even I would not contact Social Services at this point. Since you can’t get there to talk to him face to face, and other family members aren’t going to do it, maybe take a middle approach between extremes. In your shoes, I’d probably call the principal of the school and/or the head of the after school program and voice my cautious concerns. Whether the guy’s intentions are pure or not, his actions look bad and place all of them at risk.

@augustlan Exactly why I am rethinking my let’s educate her approach.

She affectionately referred to him as chipmunk in one email. Teenage girls have crushes on teachers all of the time. But it’s the teacher’s responsibility to reinforce those boundaries.

Here CPS are trained to investigate allegations, if the news of an ongoing investigation is leaked the people responsible can and have been prosecuted.

If they do their job correctly the teacher will not even know about the investigation until it is over.

Being investigated won’t ruin his career if he isn’t doing anything wrong, unless you have lousy people working for CPS. My former housemate was investigated for similar incidents, the charges were unfounded. He actually got offered a promotion because of the report from CPS.

Would you give this guy the same benefit of the doubt if he was a Catholic Priest?

@WestRiverrat I would, yes.

I was actually thinking what @augustlan said. She may have a crush on him. She could also be misinterpreting what he says by reading into it more than what it is.

@WestRiverrat: I am a former CPS worker and I don’t know of any instance where we investigated someone and they didn’t know they were being investigated. The first thing you do, after speaking to the source (unless of course the source is anonymous) is go to the person whom the allegations are against and interview them, going over each allegation. Then you do the research in the days and weeks ahead.

@zenvelo

No. What I am saying is don’t automatically assume he is up to no good and accuse him. Getting involved in the dialogue as a watchful eye can be done without making that accusation.

@WestRiverrat I’d like to think that I would.

@jca My niece is saying that there’s nothing going on between them. But whether or not she has a crush on him or not, it’s up to him as the adult to reinforce those boundaries.

When I was in junior high, we had a really young teacher. Straight-out-of-college kind of young. Unfortunately for him, he was also very attractive.

I should also add that where I grew up, everybody surfed. Even the teachers. And I remember how uncomfortable he looked with the attention he got from his students at the beach.

It wasn’t long until he resigned. No. It wasn’t because he was embroiled in some scandal with a student. Rather, he was really uncomfortable with the attention that he received and was not experienced enough to reinforce those boundaries.

It sucks because he was a great teacher. But I think he did the right thing.

Hopefully, he picked off where he left off in a less hormonal school and became the awesome teacher he could have been at ours (in some alternate universe).

Moral of the story: if you are a healthy adult, the not-so-platonic attention of prepubescent girls should make you uncomfortable. That is a normal response.

Lots of good answers! Err on the side of caution and talk to the school. Pedophiles at school is not rare.

When I was 18, a 14 year old girl flirted with me….THAT made me uncomfortable lol.

When I was 17, a 15-year-old girl flirted with me. That made me so uncomfortable that I ended up marrying her…

@raven860 Exactly.

@OneBadApple You’re not an adult at 17. Also, I think the accepted definition of child molestation is a difference of at least five years. (Though I’m not entirely sure how I feel about that.)

But it’s always sweet to hear stories about high school sweethearts. :)

@fluthernutter: I definitely am not saying it’s not up to the adult to reinforce boundaries.

@jca That little story was a tangent. Not directed at you or to imply that you do. I should have been more clear. Sorry about that.

Just wanted to thank everyone who took the time to offer their thoughts and consideration.

If you are interested, I can keep you updated via PM. But I think it’s best to move any further progress out of the public eye.

@fluthernutter Raises a flipper for yes, interested!

I want updates, too, please.

Please put me in the “please update” column also…

@OneBadApple You’re not an adult at 17. Ideologically maybe not (in Western societies), biologically YES