What do you think about profiling?

People from Middle Eastern countries are searched but that isn’t enough because you can’t predict who will be a terrorist. Profiling is a lot more sophisticated than simply what country the person is from or what they look like but it can’t identify all terrorists. It has a part to play in assessing risk but you can’t rely on it entirely.

I am fine with it, as long as no one is being harrassed. I used to profile people who wore baggy clothes when I worked retail. We followed them with cameras or watched them more one on one, but we didn’t harrass them.

As far as terrorist, there have been many people who want to blow things up and kill people who are not from the middle east, but I think it is reasonable to have a little more attention paid to them regarding suspicious behavior right now. But, really it is the behavior that is cause for attention, not so much where they are from or what they look like.

So, this brings me back to my first example. About 15 years ago where I lived black kids were more likely to wear baggy clothes, so I wound up calling security on black kids sometimes. That might be perceived as profiling black people, but it really had nothing to do with their race. I called security for anyone in baggy clothes, white, black, Hispanic, etc, but there were a disporportionate amount of calls black vs white.

You kinda lose once your motives are known. If you check all brown people the brown people will find another way. Boston.

Fuck. Anyone could go to the Abercrombie And Fitch in The Mall of America and drop a back-pack. (part of me thinks this would be justified.)

The war on terrorism is like the war on drugs. The only thing it will do is make private companies a lot of fucking money.

So Middle Eastern people “look like terrorists?” I don’t even know what that means. I must say, I’ve ever suspected the people that own the convenience store down the street of being terrorists because of how they look. And if they get searched at the airport based on something like that, I don’t think that’s okay. I once had a Middle Eastern neighbor that said he had to leave for the airport much earlier than necessary because he always had a hassle when he got there. And, I’m sorry, but that’s bullshit.

Terrorists don’t “look like” anything. Anyone of any color/race/ethnicity/age/gender can be a terrorist.

By the way, I absolutely think officials do profile. The people who work immigration at airports, police officers, etc.

@johnpowell That’s why the backpack should be the profiling cue, not how the person’s looks. Not everyone with a backpack, but if someone puts one down and walks away. Although, in a college library that would be typical behavior. Time and place.

@JLeslie :: Or we accept that bad shit will happen. People will die. But we won’t get all crazy about it. If I want to blow up a bus nothing can stop me, I can think of 50 different ways to do it. (hello NSA).

Really, the culture of fear is so gross here.

@johnpowell I don’t like the idea of a culture of fear either, but really, what the hell is someone doing leaving their purse, backpack, luggage unattended in an airport or city street? That isn’t fear to me, it’s common sense. The people who do those things are either blowing up something or unaware that there are people who might steal their things.

Profiling is pretty effective as a law enforcement technique. Not visual profiling—not looking at skin color – but behavioral profiling: asking questions and seeing if the person’s face turns red or whatever.

So done right, I’m all for it.

Unfortunately, @elbanditoroso, racial profiling is rampant. Few Law enforcement officers are free from cultural biases, and fewer still are trained to recognize subtle behavioral cues that reveal an individual’s evil intent.

Just as an aside, I left my backpack on a chair in Union Station for an hour and when I came back, it was still there. I was very glad but effective security??

@Bill1939 – agree, in the US racial profiling is rampant.

But that doesn’t negate profiling in general, it calls attention to how poorly it is done in the USA. Travel to some ‘conflict states’ – for example, Israel, portions of Europe, and some areas in Africa. And to a dgeree, through London airport. They have trained behavioral profilers that ask innocuous questions and are looking for changes in skin color, changes in eye movement, and different and halting speech as clues to behavioral anomalies.

That’s profiling done correctly.

@janbb I once called airport security while I was circling Miami airport because there was an unattended car parked near the beginning of the inside circle for arriving flights and Miami security said to me, “so?”

I was in the Vancouver airport last year and smeine left their bags while they dissappeared. I reported it to the airline employee at the desk, the unattended bag was 10 feet in front of her, but anyway, she did react when I told her and began to call someone when the passenger showed up and she lectured him not to leave his bags.

The thing about your story is not only did security miss it, but no other patron reported it.

@janbb – I don’t know what city you’re in so I can’t begin to guess why it wasn’t considered suspicious.

I can tell you that in the several months since the Boston bombing, there have been at least a dozen “suspicious abandoned package” alarms that have closed down streets and buildings in downtown and midtown Atlanta. They have all turned out to be innocent – lost briefcase, kid forgot his backpack, etc. – but they have been called in and taken seriously here.

This was Washington, D.C.!

@JLeslie No other patron stole it which was even better! it had my iPad in it.

@janbb Maybe people are afraid enough to just walk by. LOL. They should report it though.

I left my purse at a tourist welcome center and rest stop just over the line of Georgia coming from Florida on I75 and someone tirned it in and My purse with everything in it was returned to me. Over $400, two pairs of sunglasses (one was Prada), my wallet with ID and credit cards, and some medication.

@JLeslie – We Georgia citizens are a decent and upstanding bunch :-)

@elbanditoroso It was along the interstate, I have no idea what state the people were from who turned it in. I wish they had taken their name. The Georgia employee was very nice to make efforts to contact me, and she drove back after working hours to meet me, but we did the same for people all the time in FL, the only time someone has been horrible when I lost something was at a Walmart in TN. Twice in that same store they were horrible.

I wasn’t talking about terrorism specifically, just any crime can do.
What kind of behaviors would one find suspicious concerning those from the Middle East? Especially those who are immigrating here. Most of their bodies are covered, so it’s hard to see subtle changes in skin pigmentation.
And why would they check the little girl? I have heard stories of parents who smuggle illegal goods via stuffed animals and the like, but to any regular person, they wouldn’t look suspicious at all.

@BBawlight I don’t understand your last post. I don’t think any of the 9/11 terrorist were wearing typical Muslim garb, is that what you mean? As for skin pigmentation, I think everyone needs to show their face in an airport. Very few Muslims have their face covered in America and other western nations. It is not just skin color, but also semetic features, dark hair, usually not neatly clean shaven. However, a man I worked with for a long time was Arab and blond, tightly curly hair, very light skin, with light eyes, not blue though. Many Hispanics, Italians, Native Americans have darker skin, but it is more than just darker skin. As far as the little girl, when I worked at Bloomingdale’s moms used to steal items and shove them under their babies in the baby carriage. In a place like an airport the stuffed animal would be xrayed. But, I do agree a stuffed animal left behind by a little girl in a public area would not trigger suspicion like a backpack.

Just before my husband was tranferred with work to expat in Colombia I told him he has to shave his goatee. He has black hair, a mediterranean look (most Americans I think might guess he is Greek) a middle east surname (although it is Jewish, but many people who don’t know think it might be Arab) and I felt he would be profiled and have a harder time in immigration entering both Colombia and America. He did shave. His sister used to get stopped in immigration all the time. I told her to stop wearing red or black, and to wear soft make-up, no red lipstick. Also, to smile more. She wasn’t stopped again. Could be coincidence, but the coincidence is interesting. My BIL is blond and blue eyed, and his name was on the terrorist list and it took forever to get cleared when he was flying. Always a hassle when he checked in. His last name is Irish/Scottish sounding. I guess that is left over from the IRA days. He finally got it fixed after a few years of dealing with it.

@JLeslie Well… I suppose that if you were a terrorist, you wouldn’t want to look like one when passing through an airport. As for the statement regarding the showing of their faces. There are many religions in this world which require at least partial covering of the face, and I respect that. Many of them that I’ve seen do keep at least some part of their face concealed.

I read this one story that said a man and woman were arrested for possession of cocaine that was hidden inside of a hollowed out baby. As in a real baby! That just goes to show that some people will hide illegal goods anywhere.
So I suppose it’s alright to profile on suspicious parents, and to X-ray all luggage no matter how small, but I think they already do that.

@BBawlight You would think they wouldn’t want to look like one. But, for 9/11 they did fit some profiles. Problem is probably so did many people that day who were travelling. When I got married I decided to take my husband’s name and I thought and said, if a plane is hijacked I am one of the first dead. My wedding was in 1993. My married surname is a middle eastern Jewish name. Terrorism and plane hijacking is not a new scare for me, I am amazed at how safe most Americans felt and how oblivious. Not that I walk around afraid, I don’t, but I am aware these things exist. I guess that is what happens when you grow up in a group that has been hated, enslaved, and killed for centuries. Plus the fact that there have been terrorist attacks for years in western countries and on even againts America. My biggest fear when it came to profiling in my head was a skinhead neo nazi type I must admit, not someone from the middle east. I grew up with close friends from Pakistan, Iran, Lebanon, never thought twice about it.

As far as covering the face, I draw the line there. I am absolutely fine with people wearing traditional clothing, modest clothing, covering their hair, but covering the face I draw the line. Ithink people should be identifiable in public. I know people can wear sunglasses and hats and be fairly covered, but then ok let them do that. I have a hard time believing a woman who walks around with only her eyes showing is living a free life. The one woman I dealt with who was covered like that, it was obvious her periphery was limited, and that her husband was domineering. At times I felt like she was staring at my for either help or just saying through her eyes I know he is being an ass. It was hard to watch. I am usually pretty accepting of cultural differences, but anyway that is my line.

Yöu don’t need traditional Muslim clothing to hide bombs on your body, that’s for sure. But, the looser the clothing the easier to do it. But, a dress on a woman can easily do the same.

It’s why I say the real clues are behavior not race and ethnicity. But, sometimes they all happen together and it appears to be racial profiling.

@JLeslie My one big problem with how people handle profiling is that most of the time, some people think it has almost everything to do with race or religion, and that just ticks me off. They think that the only reason they got checked was because they were this race or that, but in reality, they just looked suspicious. I’ve always wondered why some people thought that way. When I asked this question, I expected a few answers to disagree with profiling because of race or religion, then I’d ask them why they thought that.

I also wished to know if some people are afraid to profile because they might get into trouble with people like that. I’m not really sure there are people like that,though.

@BBawlight I would say if they are constantly being stopped, checked, etc. in different locations and situations, then it is not just their race, it is something they are doing also. Sometimes people are just profiled based solely on race or how they are dressed, and I have a problem with that, but I think that is true only a small part of the time.