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KNOWITALL's avatar

Toxic family member - what would you do?

Asked by KNOWITALL (29863points) July 9th, 2013

My uncle is very religious and strict, and he married a woman almost exactly like him, except she’s not very socially adept. The rest of us in the family are much more secular.

They have isolated themselves and their son from our family for many years. They’ve started fights at family events, because we had a bottle of wine, or a few beers (so they call us alcoholics.) This is the same uncle of mine who told me not to sing Black Betty with his son because it was racist. He ran an elderly neighbor off, who has a mental illness, because he cussed too much.

His wife’s family, although having their own problems, is fully acceptable and they send their son over there constantly, which some of us find very hurtful.

Would you just cut him/ them off after years of trying or how would you handle it? He doesn’t want to communicate any real feelings or emotions, it’s just blaming our family for everything, including their isolation from us. It’s hurting my mom a lot, and I don’t know what to say to her to make their rejection less hurtful.

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17 Answers

LornaLove's avatar

I am in a similar position although the person who is toxic is not religious. However, his anger and reactive blame behavior has made me ill. I did try all sorts of things to help him and to help myself deal with ‘me’ trying to stop ‘me’ from being party to such a toxic relationship. I quit analyzing what was wrong with me? Why did I continue to try and love the person? Frankly we are human and we do love certain people in our families. It is not that complicated really.

In the end due to abusive behavior I have had to cut ties. It has not been long, but I do notice I think a little less often about him hour by hour. That is how I have had to do it, hour by hour.

I decided due to my own mental illness I cannot be party to a number of things, like, not sleeping well, not eating well or being part of a toxic relationship. It is deadly for me as my emotions go all over the place.

I think a basic rule of relationships is something like symbiosis, give and take, win and win? I was never sure of this since I was part of a dysfunctional family myself. But if everything is one way it is the highway. I certainly would not have the time nor patience (in your case) to entertain judgemental people. Who if you forgive me for saying, have a mental illness?

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

BuBye… But not before reminding him that Satan is the Accuser.

There is nothing Christian about his judgement of your family.

cookieman's avatar

I would be done with him and her.

I have been there, and made the decision to remove toxic family from my life.

It’s surprisingly refreshing.

zenvelo's avatar

The other posters have it right. People who behave like that have relinquished any right to participate in family events. And is they try to throw their “Christianity” back at you, remind them that Jesus said, “let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

Jesus did not tolerate those who were judgmental of others, and considered those who declared their superior religiosity as being guilty of pride.

You have the right, @KNOWITALL, to a peaceful and loving home, and you have the right to not allow people who violate your boundaries to not come to your home.

marinelife's avatar

Have some family events with them with no alcohol.

Coloma's avatar

Yep, difficult people be gone.
I have let go of at least 5 people in the last 10 years or so as I became more aware of their toxicity. It is useless trying to “communicate” with unhealthy people, and trying to figure out crazy people makes YOU crazy! lol
Life goes on, let it go on without all the drama, stress, fear and anxiety of trying to second guess obnoxious, manipulative, emotionally unstable, or whatever combo plate of the above, types.

Yes to boundaries also, if you cannot avoid them as family members just keep a safe physical and psychological distance to protect yourself.

Aster's avatar

I am unable to 100% drop a family member from my life who is a druggie, insane, depressed , very manipulative, rude, broke and lazy. Only way I can handle it is keep a phone conversation very brief and don’t call them. I let then call me and thank heavens they only call me about once a month or less. I have physical problems and some depression even after a five minute chat . So I will go for dropping them out of your life 90% and be darn glad they live far away. Very sad situation to live your life trying to deny someone so close to you in your bloodline is still alive.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@marinelife We have, many times. :)

@Aster The thing is, we love them. My mom is a Saint practically and she just lost her temper the other day when the ‘wife’ started screaming through the phone at my mom, simply for having made previous dinner plans, when they wanted to stop by (they gave her 30 minutes notice.)

I dropped them over a year ago, when I called my super Christian uncle a hypocrit. They wouldn’t even come to help mom when she was going through her cancer treatment. Sometimes I just want to shake them for being idiots.

JLeslie's avatar

What I would attempt is to invite them to a family event and tell them how much I want them to be there, but that I expect them not to make others uncomfortable by commenting on alcohol, politics, or religion. If they feel disriminated againts, I would just reassure them that I genuinely want them to be there and am saddened that these subjects have caused arguments and tension for them (meaning your conservative uncle, so you would be saying “you” not “them” to him) and other people. That you will be asking everyone to stay off those topics. They can then decide if they can stifle and want to come. Maybe they need the expectations spelled out and don’t perceive everyone’s discomfort? My dad is like that. He cannot read between the lines or pick up subtle cues from people.

Simultaneously, I would advise your mom to emotionally separate herself and stop giving a shit. Get angry, mourn them like a break up from a loved one. Release the weight on her shoulders and the sadness. They are not there for her, not emotionally, and they stand in judgement. For now, they are family members who are blood, but who are not to be trusted with her love.

augustlan's avatar

Your mom needs help and support to relieve herself of this relationship. It feels horrible to cut someone you love out of your life, but sometimes it’s the only way to maintain your sanity/health. She needs to understand that it’s not her fault, and that she will not be a terrible person for doing it.

Inspired_2write's avatar

Question: When you have family events “where’ wre these held?
At your place or theirs?
If it is hat your place then “you” have the right to banish them off your property .
Plus where does he get off thinking that he can dominate events at your place?

If it is at ‘their” place then you have the option to leave.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie @augustlan They’ve been to my house for Thanksgiving ONCE and I’ve been with my husband for over ten years. The wife said she felt uncomfortable with my in-laws and a few friends there. I have a mini-bar and it had a sign on it that said “Cocktail hour is at 2pm” specifically to make sure there was no drinking during dinner and social time, so they’d feel comfortable. There’s always something that the wife brings up as a negative, always.

@Inspired_2write We have had to meet in public places for about the last five years to get to see them. A restaurant, a park, etc….they don’t invite any of us over to their home, which is about 30 minutes from our metro area.

What is especially hurtful to my mom, and to me, is that we are the only immediate family in our area, the rest all moved out of state or out of the country, so hanging out with them is what we want, but it’s so incredibly difficult. The wife admitted to my mom that she had a mental illness a long time ago, and has apparently never sought treatment (which is what my mom does for a living!), so we think maybe that has a much larger impact on the relationship that we thought originally.

When my mom was diagnosed with cancer, they didn’t do one load of dishes or laundry or anything, so I called them out on it, and since then we haven’t spoke or emailed or anything. What upset me about that is that they are the only immediate family here, and they spend a lot of time helping their church family. Now, having no relationship to speak of and mom in remission, it feels like they don’t care at all. My mom wants to know her nephew before she dies, and he’s now 13 and she’s seen him about once a year for the last five years. I just want to scream at them to stop hurting my mom, and I did tell her to stop letting them continue to hurt her. My mom getting mad is a good thing in this case I think.

Thanks for all the opinions!!!

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL Honestly, I think it is ridiculous to make a party alcohol free for them. The only time I might consider doing something like that is if a dear relative had just been through addiction treatment, and would hope evryone would understand I wanted to remove the temptation. But, as someone who personally does not drink, I would never expect other people not to drink in my presence or at a party. If I invited my Mormon friends over who don’t drink, I would not make a party alcohol free, and I can’t imagine they would expect that at one of my parties. I would be extremely bothered if anyone tried to get them to drink. Some drinkers do that, “aw come on, just have one, loosen up.” I find that behavior disgusting, and I assume those people are alcoholics whether they deserve the label or not, it becomes my assumption about them unless they prove me wrong somehow.

Are they the only family members who don’t drink? In my family and my husband’s alcohol usually is not at family dinners, even holiday celebration If it is offered or brought out, still maybe half the people partake. Bigger events like a “party” or wedding would be different, alcohol would be out, ready for the taking, offered, but still not everyone would be drinking. If they are uncomfortable around people who drink, aren’t there some relatives they can stay more attached to who aren’t drinking?

I really don’t think them not helping your mom means they don’t care, but I completely understand why your mom feels that way and why she is upset with their choices. Very religious people often remove themselves from their families that are not from the same religion. It doesn’t need to be an outright cut off, but they become more involved, almost more loyal to the community from their church community. Some religions prescribe it, while some it is more subtle. Interactions with people from outside the community can have negative influences, they might especially feel this way if they have children. Spouses might worry about the other spouse being influenced, etc.

Some strict religious Jews will declare their child dead if he leaves the orthdox community. Jehovah Witnesses are supposed to ostracize a relative or friend who leaves the church, the Amish shun family that leave the community. These are extremes, but there are less extreme insidious ways this kind of thing can manifest itself. I think if you and your mom can try to understand them, maybe you would feel better, be more forgiving of their limitations. I don’t mean limits out on them by the church, but limitations in their own psyche. For some reason they need to align themselves this way. If it is possible to communicate with them to allow them to explain their position while showing respect for their feelings, at least you all can be heard, but I realize that might be very difficult. Especially if they have some guilt, they will most likely jump to be defensive.

Your uncle and his wife put God first I would think, even before family, which is against God in my opinion, but probably not in theirs. It is written in Timothy if I remember correctly that not being responsible for our families is worse than not believing in God.

Inspired_2write's avatar

Sometimes I wonder “why” do you “want” these people around you?
Seek out better company.
Preferably people who uplift you and your mother.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie I don’t drink a lot or very often, but at family gatherings, we have wine or cocktails available. Most drink at least a glass or two with dinner or something, but only one is an alcoholic and he is out of state, so he rarely makes those events.

We are all the same religion, that is what is so weird. They choose not to drink, and that’s fine, but I think they think we judge them as ‘uncool’ or something, which is not true at all, we just want them to recognize that a glass of wine isn’t a big deal. I only posted that sign at my party for them because they brought their son, and I don’t drink around children or allow anyone else to do so, based on my own childhood experiences.

I agree with you that about Timothy, and Lord knows we’ve tried so hard to keep him in the family, it’s just not working.

@Inspired_2write Because it’s family, and that’s important to us, and frankly, I love and miss my uncle, how he used to be. I’ve reconciled that he’s not that person anymore, which is the only way I could let go with no guilt. It’s just weird that so many people think he’s a fine upstanding Christian member of the community, spending time on Pro-Life causes and working for his church family. I told him once that I felt like he should talk to his pastor about the family situation for clarity.

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL I will say that as someone who doesn’t drink myself, it can get annoying when people seem worried about being able to drink, or if they always drink. But, your family doen’t seem like they are having a lot, so I don’t get the big deal.

I really think if there is any way you can talk to them so everyone can communicate honestly and openly it might be very enlightening. You are guessing what they think, they are guessing what people are thinking about them. Maybe everyone needs to be reassured you all really want to be able to get together and everyone be as comfortable as possible. Being angry with them for not doing enough isn’t going to do that. They might be angry at you or other people in the family for stuff you don’t even realize also. It sounds like a lot of misunderstanding. Everyone needs to drop expectations I think, and just take time together as it comes. Have they been generous with time or money previously, and just dropped the ball when your mom was sick? They may feel like everyone is ungrateful for what they have done, and so then why bother doing anything. I’m guessing of course, not assuming. Just throwing out ideas. This happened with my husband and I and his family.

At the same time, I would not try too hard. If they are going to be a pain in the neck, judgemental, they lose. I had this with a couple inlaws at one point, it was extremely upsetting for me for years, and finally I got to the point where I thought, fuck them. Interestingly, within a few months they started pursuing my husband and I. All of a sudden we were the golden ones. It was like a power struggle, once they lost our power over us, they started to scramble. Like a teenage girl who acts indifferent, and the boy pursues her like crazy. Indifference can set you free. You don’t have to cut them off, just because you reach a state of indifference.

Inspired_2write's avatar

@KNOWITALL
One cannot change another, only yourself and how you connect with them.
Here is an inspiring messege throughout this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4zWBHFCmXM

After the credits also a messege on purpose..one line.

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