What age would you consider a kid to be a "failure to launch" scenario?

Failure to launch into what? High student debt with minimal job opportunity after four+ year investment? I know folks that will still be paying off their student loans even after they retire. And they’re not even working in their field of study. I know graduates who can’t get a job other than waiting tables… and they’re working under the tenured managers who didn’t go to college.

There are numerous profitable options to college. We live in a different world now.

I’d agree with you @tranquilsea, although it depends on where and what culture. Here in Nortehr California if a man hasn’t moved out for at least a littl ebit nby thetime tehy are 22 I’d think of it as failure to alunch. That doens;t mena hey won;t move back, but eveyrone needs some time as independent and working out living on their own.

That being said, I went to a buddy’s wedding in Philadelphia,back when I was 30. He was marrying an Italian girl from South Philly. The men in their late 20’s were amazed that we from California didn’t live at home. One guy (who was considered a hot prospect by the Philly women) even asked us, “who does your laundry and cooks your dinner?”

It was like the whole neighborhood had failed to launch.

I set the limit at 27, but I do think that is very late. I think by 20 they have overstayed if they are not working or going to school. Failure to launch I associate with they probably will never be very successful or ambitious, that is my 27 number.

@zenvelo I don’t think living at home is the measure. The measure is if they are pursuing their adult life where they will need to independent and financially responsible. Culture plays a strong role in whether someone moves out of their parents home or not.

Failure to launch into their own lives. I don’t think life is so much different than it was when I launched at 20 into my own life lol.

Are we talking about a gainfully employed 25 year old? If employed, are they saving for a house/condo/place of their own and the parents have agreed to accepting minimal room and board? If that’s the scenario, then I don’t think it’s a failure to launch.

If they’re working a minimum wage job, then I would have to consider if that’s the only opportunity that they have. Are they contributing to the household in some way? This could be via room and board or taking care of household chores or elderly parents. Then I don’t see that as a failure either.

The person that is gainfully employed, could afford to live on their own, pays no room & board, gets their meals cooked and laundry done and contibutes nothing in terms of household labor, yes, THAT’S a failure to launch.

I agree. I was going to say early 20s. I even think 25 is too old.

The person in question was 25, has a band, had some student loans and was paying zero room and board but, more importantly had no plans on moving out in the near future.

I understand parents supporting a child’s dreams. I have 3 kids myself. When it comes to a potential career like a band then kids need to set a length of time they will give it their passion their all before they transition that potential career into a hobby and get a job that will pay the bills.

@tranquilsea The one kid of all my friends who failed to launch, his mom was a very doting mother who made it extremely obvious to her kids that her happiness hinges on them. I don’t know if that played into it or not, because certainly parents can do everything right and have a child that just has no motivation. He was drinking a little too much I think also. She also was one of those people who constantly talked about money isn’t everything, and hated her sister was obsessed with money and material things. I think she did her kids a disservice. Her younger son is naturally a little more ambitious and responsible, but still, these kids are extremely smart, the older one actually had a few scholarships offered to him for college, and wound up taking the one close by so he could commute instead of the one 6 hours driving where he would live on campus. He quit school by the second term. I think if he had gone away to school he would have a college degree today that would have been free tuition.

Edit: I agree with you that what would bother me most is the band guy in your example had no plan of moving out. I would expect him to be saving money, have a time limit set to give things a chance, etc.

This is what is wrong with this country. We live in a society that thinks everyone should fend for themselves and when someone over 18 still lives at home with their parents it is looked down upon. It shouldn’t be like this.

The problem is corporations. They dominate everything. Just 100 years ago people grew their own food, made their own clothes, built their own homes. People would share resources through trade and barter. People actually looked out for each other and grown children stayed at home and helped with the responsibilities.

Nowadays, all that has been made moot by mindless, greedy corporations bent on making endless profits. They supply everything, they control all the markets. They make it impossible to survive without slaving yourself out to them for a pittance. It’s pathetic.

@flip86 If an adult child is 19 and living at home and working on establishing a career or going to school, I don’t think most people look down on it. What we are looking for is the young adult has a goal or plan or taking some sort of steps working towards being financially and emotionally independent.

If they’ve been out of school for 6 or 7 years, living at home for free, and not holding down a job I would call that a failure to launch.

I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s and it was a different world in terms of parenting. I honestly think that adult children should be out of the house by 20 – at the latest if they are not in college. Obviously 22 if they are in a four-year-school and just returning during summers and holidays.

The kinds of coddling and enabling that occur with generations after mine baffles me. A lot of adult children are not growing up with a sense of responsibility and psychologically, they are not establishing identities that are independent of the parents (individuation) and moving on with their lives. It can create a bizarre dependence and then relationship issues later on in life. Also – there’s no incentive to become self-sufficient. I knew that I needed/should be out of the house and on my own by the time I was done with school – and I worked 3 jobs to achieve that.

Unlike Flip86 – I don’t think this is about corporations. People can work in a million other jobs that don’t have anything to do with the business world. I think that for psychological reasons, confidence-building and the ability to establish their own place in the world, adult children need to have their own autonomy as soon as they can.

As a manager, I am floored by the kind of ridiculousness I see. I have people in their 20’s and 30’s whose parents call in sick for them (!) or drive them to work. They have also challenged performance reviews at times. Sheeeeeesh.

What about the 27-year-old who has left his/her hometown, unable to find work, finds self on the street, and is too proud to return home? Would that be a failure to launch?

@Yetanotheruser That would be trying to launch and not succeeding. They deserve a spot at home. No one should be on the street if there are alternatives. Home should be a safety net in that case.

@figbash You fail to see my point. Corporations control everything. They supply all the food, clothing, vehicles, gasoline, appliances, electricity. They have monopolized everything and have completely transformed society from being independent and self reliant to being dependent on corporations for everything.

I think kids may launch in stages. Go out in the world, fail and then move back in only to leave again fairly soon once they realize that home wasn’t as comfy as they previously thought.

I have a cousin who never left home and lived with his mom til the day she died. Epic failure to launch.

@flip86 I do think our industrialized society and economy influences our culture and our expectations of family. So, I don’t completely discount your theory, but it is just a small part I think. Another part is some parents want their kids out for selfish reasons, to have their privacy and freedom back and not have the financial burden. I personally don’t know any parent desparate to get rid of their kid at the age of 18, it’s usually just the opposite, the feel some empty nest when it does happen, but by 25 it’s enough for most parents in America. Plus, selflessly, the parent’s job is to raise an independent, self sufficient, caring individual. If they fail to launch the parent has failed in a way. Each parent has their own line or age where they begin to worry their child is never going to pull it together. I think parents want to feel their kids are alright if they die.

I’d say 23 regardless of college. Most of us graduate from college in 4 years, which would make them 22. I’d say one year is enough time to get a job and get on your feet. I moved out at 19 and I’m still in school. It’s possible. My sister, on the other hand, is 32 and living at home with her 9-year-old daughter. She’s the definition of failure to launch.

I always said I’d reserve a UHAUL on my kids’ 18th birthday. You’re an adult, now get the fuck out. :)

@Adirondackwannabe That would be trying to launch and not succeeding.

How exactly is what you said different from “failure to launch?”

@livelaughlove21 They took a shot at launching and gave it their best shot. They just ran afoul of the job market and the economy. The other person in the OP’s question won’t even try. That’s the difference.

@Adirondackwannabe So if I try to pass a class but I can’t, I didn’t fail? All I’m saying is that “not being able” to do something is the same exact thing as failing to do it. The phrase “failure to launch” doesn’t address effort.

I think the effort counts. I think being too proud to return home and living on the street is a failure actually.

@JLeslie I think the effort counts as well, but trying and failing is still failing. Semantics, really.

I guess I would consider the entire situation. If it was the young person’s first attempt, and they fail, feel badly about it, and return home with a plan to get back out again, it was just a bump in the road. I think calling it a failure is bad for the psyche. Living on the street when there is a safe place at home seems unnecessary, dangerous, and not an easy way to make another attempt at launching. To me launching is about an emotional transition to be responsible for oneself. Sometimes a person does everything right, and outside forces cause them to be in a hard spot. For young people it is more likely, because they haven’t had years to save up money and float financially through a bad time.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2882908/posts

This is how the job market looks for younger people. I think you need to re-adjust how you perceive the world in light of the new reality for young people.

I think this is a great question and have asked myself this many times. It appeared to me that some adult children were still living at home far too long and when I mentioned it people argued that life is expensive it is more difficult now. I think that is relative really, we earned less years ago we still made a plan. The desire to leave home was so strong, to be independant and to create a sense of self was what we were about. I think age 20 is long enough. I know many do study longer than that, but then they should be contributing somehow to the home and making plans for a future. Or even better also paying towards their tuition fees.

My son is 22 and works full-time and usually overtime. He pays his own car bills and whatever else he wants, and he gives me rent every month. I doubt you could find a 1 bedroom apartment for less than $900.00 a month around here. Even though he makes well over minimum wage, there’s no way he could afford a car and car insurance and rent and food and utilities. It’s just impractical. We have the space. He is responsible and respectful. I don’t consider that he’s failed to launch. If he sat around playing video games all day and being rude to others in the household, then I would say that there are issues.

I think it depends on the situation the adult child is in rather than their age alone. There are too many variables that come into the situation to make a blanket statement of a set age a adult child should be out of the house.

I have no problem with an adult child continuing living with their parents while they are saving to buy their own house (for example) as long as they are supporting themselves and pulling their own weight around the house.

A young man in my neighborhood, 16yrs old, entering his Junior year HS, is seen every single summer day heading off in the morning with his lawn mower and leaf blower. He’s making at least $100 per day by leveraging his youthful ambition.

“So Tyler… do you have any college plans?”

“Maybe, maybe not. My only real plan is to have five other Juniors working for me by the time I graduate. See ya… got to get to work now.”

@hearkat Would he consider having roomates? Back in my day almost all of my friends lived with someone right after college as we started out as adults. It seems like in some parts of the country 20 year olds aren’t doing it as much as we did.

Allowing such a situation to occur is harmful to the young adult. The parents in this case are facilitators. i think that using tough love is best for young adults. It sad to see young people wasting and stunting their live spinning their wheels at home when they should out on the race track of life. It reminds me of a flower but that will not open.

JLeslie and gondwanalon also mention something that I also think is relevant. Adult children often find it more comfortable to stay at home so that they can still enjoy their parent’s higher standard of living. For some reason, children are so coddled and protected these days that the prospect of sharing a house in a roommate situation and divvying up expenses is less appealing. That was the standard years ago – you move out and you share a place to save on costs, you get some used furniture and make a go of it. That’s just not the mindset anymore.

I understand some of the cases here and each individual scenario can be different but I still stand by my belief that adult children are way too dependent on their parents financially and emotionally these days. The psychological impact on their confidence in making decisions and establishing their own identity (as well as learning to be resourceful) is very real.

@JLeslie – I doubt it… he knows that most of his friends are not as neat or responsible as he is, and he doesn’t want that headache.

I joke with him that I can’t wait until he moves out, but it really isn’t a big deal having him live with us. When we looked for a place, we made sure we found one that had plenty of room for him. He’s in the master bedroom, which has its own bathroom with a stall shower. I hate stall showers, so it made more sense to give him that space like a studio apartment. The second bedroom is nearly as big and we have the full bath in the hallway. We’re mostly on the first floor anyway.

We’re his roommates. We’re all adults and get along well. He comes and goes as he pleases, and his girlfriend had a key and came and went as she pleased prior to them breaking up. The only inconvenience is that we can’t walk around naked.

@hearkat I don’t think it is about whether it is inconvenient for the parents. The question is, what is really best for the adult child. I think living out, away from your parents is a very good thing for most children. Some don’t need it, but many can’t really find their own adult independence without physically being out of the house. Even when a parent is great at showing respect for their child’s decisions and ideas and gives them total freedom to come and go, a lot of the time the child, in their own mind, still is in a different place psychologically than if he was out of the house. Like, my dad doesn’t understand why I am so defensive when he suggests an idea. I feel like he is telling me what to do, even when he is only giving me an opinion, and won’t be angry if I make a different decision. I can’t take information from him like I can other people, even though I logically know better. Too much emotion or history or old dynamic as father daughter. It’s in my head. He doesn’t understand his influence as a parent. Again, not true for everyone, but I think parents are bad judges usually of their effect on their children and I think young adults who have never lived outside the house don’t know any different.

Your son is 22, so that isn’t very old in my book, but I would think he would naturally want to have a plan to get out on his own. My parents would have insisted on one. But, by contrast my husband’s parents never would. Their oldest son lived at home until his mid 30’s. I wouldn’t expect my children to pay rent, there I differ with some people above, unless I felt he was a loser doing nothing and needed the threat of being thrown out on the street. In your place I would not want any money from my son assuming I can easily afford my bills, I would want him to save to make his plan for independence away from me happen. Just my two cents. I really think every family and even every child is different, and each situation should be taken as an individual situation. No one size fits all.

I think it is odd I showed specific statistics proving that older people have it much easier than younger people in today’s environment. And older people kept talking like objective reality has no input into the discussion, because they remember that they had to work kinda hard. Wow. I now understand why their parents called them the “me” generation.

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought Even with your stats, I think I am talking about attitude more than availability of jobs. A lot of young people today don’t feel that desire to leave home. They might be going to school or even working, and they stay at home. Some are not even actively seeking jobs nor going to college. It comes in a huge variety of scenerios.

My niece and nephew feel just fine about not working, even though they have been literally given jobs. They pass them up, or work for a couple weeks. They don’t care about asking their parents for money for everything. They are 18 and 21. I could tell you more about them, but the story could get long. I don’t think the majority of kids are like that, but I think enough are similar to them that it is a worthwhile statistic also. They are young still, so they definitely could wind up ok, we’ll see. One little tidbit I will tell you about my neice, she doesn’t want to live in the dorms at school she was accepted to because she doesn’t want to share a bathroom, she might get an ugly gross rommate, and she knows she won’t like any of the cafeteria food. Give me a break. None of those things occurred to me when I went away to college.

I’m part of the generation that exists directly under the boomers. As I “launched” out into the world I had to apply like crazy at a number of jobs and then intelligently follow up with them. The job I ended up getting was one that I chased for 6 months. I can’t tell you how many times I heard that someone was going to have to DIE before I’d get a job there.

Me and my cohorts grouped by the 4s, 5s and 6s to find places to live as I lived in an area where rents were skyrocketing. I cannot tell you how much was learned through all this.

It is MHO that deprivation teaches a LOT. One of the main lessons is the difference between a need and want. If you learn that lesson well then you will never be “poor” no matter how much money you bring in. that’s a generalized statement but I hope you get what I mean

@JLeslie I didn’t want to argue this question too much because it is clear people are not listening.

Offer your younger relatives a decent job with decent pay. If they say no, I will mock them with you. Otherwise, you are just the older generation making fun of the younger, exactly as what happened in the last depression.

As Hemingway said, “people who tell you to get a job are never hiring.”

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought My neice is not looking for a job related to the career she will be pursuing, it is some cash while in school. It is a decent job with decent pay in my opinion. $10 an hour in a very nice store with a very nice clientelle and a discount for clothes, part time. She can work somehwere else, no one is forcing her to work in a store. What I don’t understand is that she doesn’t want to work at all. Literally at all. Not when she was younger, not now, and she never wants to work in the future. She thinks work os just an awful thing. She actually wants to go away to school to her credit, but her mom thinks its better she doesn’t, but her mom wanted her to live at the dorm at a nearby college.

I have all sorts of problems with salaries now and how people at the top make huge bunches of money, and at the bottom they are paid very littke and honestly I think borderline abused to be honest, taken advantage of. But, even when I graduated school back in 1990 my salary did not pay for me to live on my own when I was starting out and there was no shame in it.