What motivated Zimmerman if not race?

pseudo-Adventure

Wanting to catch the bad guy?

Wanting to be a hero?

Wanting to have power over others?

Feeling empowered to take the laws into your own hands?

He probably just wanted some action.

Vigilante Cop wannabe with a hero complex. He had a little life before and wants to be noticed. Not much unlike most media hungry murderers with big egos. If you heard the latest, he now wants to sue the parents for not keeping their son off the streets.
So obviously he believes he has done nothing wrong and wants to keep himself in media a bit longer.

There were eight burglary reports in Zimmerman’s neighborhood in the 14 months prior to Martin’s February 26 death. In three of those incidents, black males were implicated by witnesses or arrests.

Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch volunteer. Neighborhood watch is an organized group of citizens devoted to crime and vandalism prevention within a neighborhood.

Trayvon was unfamiliar to George and Trayvon looked suspicious.

There’s no law that says you can’t get out of your car and talk to someone in your own neighborhood.

@harangutan No. I think my question might not have been clear enough for you. Why do you think you are the guy to get out of the truck when the cops tell you not to?

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought He was already out of the truck when the 911 dispatcher told him that. Maybe you don’t have enough details about what really happened.

@harangutan ok, I am sorry. Assume he is already out of the truck when the cops tell him that. Fine. Why do you keep going?

Let’s be fair. None of us can climb inside another man’s head and roll back the tapes to see what motivated him in a given moment. What we can do is weigh reasonable possibilities.

I doubt race motivated Zimmerman. When he first called 911 to report a suspicious character, he mentioned nothing about race. The 911 operator asked him what race the person was as one of a series of questions designed to let the police officers that would be despatched to the scene have some idea what sort of person they were looking for. Zimmerman replied, “He looks black.”

There had been numerous break ins and home invasions in that neighborhood. The lady living alone next door to Zimmerman had experienced a terrifying home invasion. It’s clear form the 911 tape that Zimmerman was concerned that Martin might be armed. It’s also clear from the testimony that Trayvon’s girlfriend, Rachel Jeantel gave that he too was frightened by being followed by a white guy.

There is every reason to suspect that the two encountered each other, both with adrenalin pumping, and a fight ensued. We will never know who threw the first punch. But at some point Zimmerman was getting the worst of it and he used deadly force to defend his own life.

I recall a fight that unfolded in biology class in high school. One kid was 6’ 8” tall and 380 pounds. He was a real giant. He was shooting spitballs at his classmates. I knew, because he hit me with a couple. He made the mistake of targeting one of the star athletes on our school’s football team. The kid he hit was just 17, a child in the terms being applied in this case. He was just under 6 feet tall and weighted around 200 pounds. The fight was over in 3 punches. The giant bully had a broken nose, two teeth knocked out and the rest of his overbite sticking through his upper lip, and a concussion.

So the fact that Trayvon Martin was “only 17” and “a child” is unpersuasive. He wasn’t the street fighter that our wide receiver, Baldy Bow was, but he was good enough to beat the crap out of George Zimmerman and provide him reasonable concern that he was in danger of great bodily harm or death.

@ETpro I am trying to understand what motivated this guy to feel he needed to shoot a kid. I am slowly swinging around to the theory he picked a fight with a child and found out he could not take this child.

What I am trying to understand is why it seemed “a good idea” to fight a child. I don’t expect a perfect answer, but if I rule out base racism, I am only seeing some strange hero fantasy that is kind of masturbatory. And I am projecting that out to all of the guys who concealed carry.

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought What evidence led you to the conclusion that Zimmerman picked the fight? Couldn’t it be the way he testified?

I frankly doubt your objectivity, here. I pointed out an absolutely true anecdote from my youth in which a 17 year old in 3-punch fight inflicted great bodily harm; yet you insist on calling Trayvon Martin a child. “Children” that age are routinely tried as adults on manslaughter and murder charges after killing someone with their hands.

And how do you suppose that Zimmerman even knew what age his assailant was? Is that the first thing youd think about if you were getting slowly pounded into senselessness? “Gee, this guy looks like he’s a few months short of 18, so I better just let him beat me to death.”

What

is

a

child?

@ETpro‘s responses are just a perfect, perfect thing, flawless.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies Trayvon is being a dumbass in those pics. We all have pics of us being stupid at that age.

I think Zimmerman turned it into what it was because he wanted to show what a bad ass he was.

I just saw something on facebook that kind of sums up how I feel. Cartoon of a guy standing over a dead guy. Guy’s talking to the cops. Guy says, “Pant pant!! I had to stand my ground for half a mile before I caught up to him.”
If Zimmerman was SO worried about criminals, why the hell did he go out of his way to CONFRONT someone he thought could be so dangerous?

Anger about the burglaries in the neighborhood.

A tragedy in the true definition, is somebody making a conscience decision to act and then (s)he suffers “as a consequence of a tragic flaw, moral weakness, or inability to cope with unfavorable circumstances.”

These circumstances seem to fit the definition.

Zimmerman was disenchanted with the way authority handled crime in his turf. Martin was belligerent. It was a tragic meeting.

@ETpro I again, am looking to gain insight.

When Zimmerman got out of his truck, I am assuming he meant to pick a fight with a person who decided he was dealing with an adult. What do you think he was imagining when he got out of the truck? Was he not looking to pick a fight? Did he have insightful questions to ask the young man? What do you think was going through his mind? Telling me I am imagining things, fine. What do you think Zimmerman was imaginating?

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought We’ll never know what either was thinking at the time.

One is dead and the other has had time to alter the reality of the situation, even in his own recollection as well as being “Lawyered-up”.

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought Why do you assume Zimmerman wanted to pick a fight? The media gave you the information to come up with this assumption.

Zimmerman exited his truck after the 911 dispatcher asked for his location. He got out of his vehicle to look for a street sign. Here is an interactive map of what happened that night according to Zimmerman, the 911 call and witnesses. The lead detective said he found Mr. Zimmerman’s account of the evening to be credible. I’m sure you’ll call the lead detective a racist too.

@Imadethisupwithnoforethought @harangutan has answered for me. Everything I hear in Mr. Zimmerman’s initial 911 call tells me he got out of his truck because he wanted to give the dispatcher an accurate location and because he was losing sight of Martin and wanted to keep tabs on where he went till the police arrived. Yes, when the 911 operator realized he was trying to keep up with the “suspicious character” he’d reported, they told him they did not need him to do that. They asked him to return to his vehicle and wait till police arrived. But that instruction is not a lawful order that must be obeyed. Zimmerman didn’t do it. Had he done so, none of this would have happened. But I can easily put myself in his shoes, angry at all the break ins and home invasions with no arrests, feeling the effects of adrenaline because the guy I’m observing looks very suspicious to me, and I can then see myself doing the same thing. I assure you, I am as far from a racist as humans can get. But in that exact set of circumstances I can see myself doing exactly what George Zimmerman did.

It’s definitely a tragedy. But I just don’t see the evidence that leads from tragedy to hate crime.

It’s definitely a tragedy. But I just don’t see the evidence that leads from tragedy to hate crime.

I agree. (with fear that I’ll be called a racist. how sad is that?)

What is the point in these gated communities if break ins are so common residents have to form a neighbourhood watch? And how can one neighbour get it so wrong that he suspects and then kills another neighbour who is walking back from the shop to his own home. Zimmerman strikes me as an unbalanced individual. I wouldn’t want him as a neighbour.

There is crime in the neighborhood and Zimmerman and the Neighborhood Watch are the problem? We need to get our priorities straight. Why are young men committing crimes and how can we make a better life for them so they don’t terrorize a neighborhood. Focusing on Zimmerman and his supposed racist views is not helping anyone. It’s only adding fuel to the fire.

It seems that the calls for boycotts of Florida are getting more vocal.

I’m just going to add for the sheer sake of it that it’s incredibly refreshing to see reactionary bullshit shot down in flames.
Some idiots sound like frustrated failed politicians constantly searching for issues that are simply not there, someone should buy them a drum to bang on instead.

Guys…we could take it to the base animal level. They both considered themselves the “alpha male.” Zimmerman, because it was his turf. Martin because he was almost in the prime of his life and he felt he was being challenged. If there had been no gun involved Zimmerman probably wouldn’t have had the guts to follow Trayvon.

Also, something no one else has brought up…Tryavon had heard about the rash of break-ins and burglaries too. He had every reason to be just as wary, just as suspicious of Zimmerman as Zimmerman did of him—if not more so. Trayvon felt Zimmerman was targeting him. Why, he could only imagine.

It was just two guys playing gorilla, which guys do ALL the time. But this one had tragic consequences.

@Dutchess_III If it was just alpha male stuff, which is possible, what total idiots.

OK. Thinking about gorilla responses reminds me of a story I’ve told before but I’m going to tell it again.
When we first moved to town we rented the bottom floor of a huge, 3 story old house, about 4 blocks from the college. I had about 1500 sq feet on my floor.
The second floor was rented out to four football players from the college. I wound up being the de-facto house mother. They would literally wander into my apartment looking for food, someone to talk to, ask advice from. They never knocked. We were just family.
The only way to get to the 2nd floor apartment was from the back alley, up through the back yard, and up some rickety wooden steps. The first stop of those steps was my back deck. Then they took a left for about 5 steps, then a right, to the deck and door of the second floor. So I had a constant parade of college people through my back deck. It was all good.
One Saturday afternoon my son, Chris, who was about 8, and I were in the alley behind the house. I had an old, broken tube TV we were busting up with a baseball bat so it would fit in the trash cans. I glanced up the alley and just froze. Coming down the alley in one line, 4 abreast, shoulder to shoulder, were 4 really huge guys, obviously on a gorilla mission. Their line encompassed the whole width of the alley. They were football players too, and they were on a mission. It was not good and I had a feeling I knew where they were headed! Up to “my” guys second floor apartment.
I pressed back against the trash cans to let them pass, and I pushed Chris against the trash cans too, and held him there in a “seat belt” move.
At first I was kind of scared but the closer they got, there was something in one of their faces. They were staring straight ahead, being all tough and macho…but one of them had a twinkle, I swear, a twinkle in his eye and the corners of his mouth had turned up in the slightest of grins. He was enjoying my reaction, and felt a little embarrassed at the same time. I knew at that moment Chris and I were safe.
They passed, and sure enough, turned into our back yard and up those steps. As they passed through my back deck one of them picked up a bat belonging to my son, that was leaning against the wall by our back door, and continued up to the second floor with it.
Chris yelled “HEY! THAT’S MY BAT!!!” and started to go after them. My boy wasn’t even 4.5 feet tall, but he was going to take on that 6’4 football player who took his bat, and he was gonna WIN!
I held him back, saying, “Let’s just wait and see what happens next.” I wasn’t going to let him go charging into the middle of what could be a bad, bad fight.
As for me, I was feeling a little tigerish myself…those “thugs” were after one of “my” boys….but I wasn’t about to go charging into what could be a bad, bad fight either.

They were after Ed (I learned later, when I confronted Ed and said, “WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT ALL ABOUT???!!!” that it was some quarrel over a woman from a party the night before.)
There were some words exchanged, then the “thugs” headed back down the stairs with Chris’ bat, and my Chris broke free from from my grip and charged up the guy who had his bat!
Hands on hips, glaring up and up and up at the mountain of a man, Chris said, “THAT IS MY BAT!”
The Mountain Man grinned and said, “Here Little Man,” and handed his bat back.
As they passed by I said, “Hey..um, you guys have a number I could call in case I ever need help? Like GANG-911 or something?”
At that they all grinned and one said, “Just holler at Ed. He’ll know where to find us if you need us!”

In the end it was kind of funny, and makes me laugh to this day (Little Chris, “THAT’S MY BAT!!!” ) BUT it could have gone very, very bad had Ed, or any of his room mates or any of the “thugs” over reacted and turned full on gorilla.

Which is, I’m afraid, what happened between Trayvon and Zimmerman, and I have a feeling it may have been Trayvon.

He probably thought that backing down from a confrontation would show “weakness,” rather than wisdom, but he didn’t expect to be killed, any more than I expected my boy Ed to be killed. 17 year olds aren’t known for wisdom, any more than 8 year olds are. Zimmerman didn’t show wisdom either, and that just inexcusable for a 29 year old.

@Dutchess_III I think it is possible Trayvon was scared. He either needed to be submissive, run, or fight back. Or, that he was up to no good and afraid he was getting caught. Really it could be anything.

He felt threatened. The conversation he had with his girl friend showed that.
I imagine he was more scared than anything. I’m sure he thought Zimmerman was one of the thugs that had been breaking into houses and now that “thug” was stalking HIM.

There is no evidence to show he was “up to no good.” All evidence shows he was just walking home to his father’s girlfriend’s house, and had every right to be there.

When women get scared, we tend to run away, unless we have to stay a protect the kids.

When men get scared, they tend to turn to violence, especially the younger ones.

@Dutchess_III I didn’t know about the phone call to the girlfriend. I wasn’t assuming anything about Trayvon, just listing stuff. I agree men tend to fight if they feel threatened. I hope to God I would run. I tend to have “freeze” as my first reaction. Ugh. Plus, if Trayvon had run in this case, Zimmerman might have pursued him because he was on a mission it seems.

The whole thing upsets me in the pit of my stomach. I think no matter what it was male testosterone thinking nothing can go very wrong, or not thinking in general.

Me too @JLeslie. It breaks my heart. The bottom line is, Trayvon didn’t have enough experience to have gained any wisdom. He just fought. He didn’t expect to die.

Re the friend who was on the phone with him as it went down:
”She said that Martin told her that a man was watching him from his vehicle while talking on the phone before the man started following Martin. Martin told his friend at one point that he had lost the man but the man suddenly appeared again.[146][147][148] The friend, originally known only as “Witness 8”, said that she told Martin to run to the townhouse where he was staying with his father and the father’s girlfriend.[147] She then heard Martin say, “What are you following me for?” followed by a man’s voice responding, “What are you doing around here?” She said that she heard the sound of pushing before the phone went dead. She immediately attempted to call him back, but was unable to reach him.[149] Crump stated that he would turn the information over to the Justice Department because “the family does not trust the Sanford Police Department to have anything to do with the investigation.”[146] Martin’s friend was subsequently interviewed by state prosecutors on April 2, 2012. During her interview with the prosecutor, Martin’s friend recounted her last phone call with Martin and added that Martin had described the man as “crazy and creepy”, watching him from a vehicle while the man was talking on the phone.[147] Martin’s friend told prosecutors that she heard words like “get off, get off”, right before she lost contact with Martin.[147] She also testified that Martin referred to Zimmerman as a “creepy ass cracker” during their telephone conversation.[150]” Wiki

@Dutchess_III Wow. That just further proves to me that Zimmerman is an idiot. But, there are whole bunches of men out there who don’t realize the fear they can put into someone else, know what I mean? Even when they have no mal intent, they don’t realize what they are doing can scare someone. Or, they think they are being sly, but really we all see what they are doing and it is suspicious. Zimmerman should have kept his distance, that is blatantly obvious. Getting near Trayvon antagonized the situation. Creepy ass cracker means to me Trayvon had a distrust of white men. Although, I recognized he might just be throwing words around as a teenager.

What I mean by Trayvon up to no good, I am not saying in the moment he was going to do something bad, but if he had previously, or had plans to, his own guilt might make him more edgy. I have no idea if that was a possibility or not.

That’s just it… Staring at / watching someone is an aggressive action, in most, if not all, mammals. It’s meant to be a warning of something that could happen or is about to happen. What would your first thought be if you came across a lion who was staring at you / watching you? A dog?

When we first got Dakota, I came home unexpectedly. I came around a corner…and there she was, head lowered, her eyes fixed unblinking on mine. It was a CLEAR warning. I froze, then said, “Dakota?” At that she relaxed, so happy that I wasn’t the threat to “her” new household that she feared that I was. I have no doubt that if I’d been a stranger, Dakota would have followed through.

Have you ever “watched” someone, but broke it off if they turned your direction? If you keep looking at them, there is a chance they might say, “What’s your problem??!”

It’s yet another base instinct. Neither Zimmerman nor Martin had the wisdom to rise above it.

Sometimes when we first hear about the details of a case from the media, the assumptions that many make about a particular case do end up confirming and justifying (reasonably) our original bias, such as in some recent cases. However, there are times when the details of a case during the course of a trial seem to conflict with the media’s presentation of it, and obviously this case was one of them.

I’ve watched a fair amount of the trial, and managed to scrape up from others info about the case that I wasn’t able to view. There was criminal activity prevalient in that area at the time so Zimmerman may have been justified in at least being suspicious of Martin. Martin was observed looking into windows, and given the climate of the circumstances I’ve tried asking myself what would I do in Zimmerman’s shoes? Martin was no angel in this by a longshot in my opinion, and George may have been justified in neutralizing an overly aggressive Martin at that point (so it seems).

I’ve tried putting myself in Martin’s shoes as well. I know what it’s like to be followed, and I just had an incident happen to me involving a person following me about the time the crude details of the case first became visible in the media. Some people seem to be stating things which imply to me that they didn’t really follow the trial, or they wouldn’t be writing them. This case I still feel was a manslaughter case, but in the end we can never really know about certain details, only speculate. This case was no open and shut case like the Jodi Arias case was, not by a longshot.