Is this feasible?

Less power results in more power.

Why didn’t I think of that?

Lol true. Obviously I didn’t reread that one.

But hey why not. Ex: the wheel, horse(animal) power v horsepower, isn’t that what tech is all about?

Not having used or studied these machines, but only going by what you’ve presented here and using some educated guesses about the engineering and design that went into them…

I doubt if there’s going to be an economical way to do as you suggest. I expect that the machines you’re talking about are only storing power to a local (onboard) battery that can be used to power small handheld devices. To do as you suggest would require back-feeding the power from these appliances through the power board of the building and out to the mains. That’s expensive, because there are huge safety concerns with that back-feed (not to mention the switching mechanisms required to sense “power production mode” and “power usage mode” and act accordingly). It’s an expense worth paying for if you’re wiring, say, a dedicated high-power generator or always-on rooftop solar system, because you’ll eventually generate enough power to produce income to offset the cost of installation. There will never be better than minuscule returns from the not-always-on treadmills and other exercise machines you’re discussing, I think.

That said, there may be a way to make this work, however, but not on a machine-by-machine basis. If the machines were all connected in such a way as to make all of the work done on all machines turn one generator, then that generator might be able to produce enough power to make an economical return. However, it’s still an expensive proposition to mechanically network all of those machines to turn that single generator. I still doubt if the returns would justify the expense.

The idea reminds me of Gilligan’s Island, where Gilligan would ride the stationary bike for a while and somehow generate and store enough electricity to power all the comforts of home for Ginger and Mrs. Powell.

Really, It takes quite a lot of exercise to generate 14.59 volts.

As the author points out, using that power efficiently is key. I imagine you could lose 4 hours of work in 10 minutes of Ginger drying her hair.

I’ve been watching “The Colony” on Netflix. It was an A&E reality show with a premise of bringing together a group of disparately talented individuals in the wake of a catastrophe to see what they could salvage and create. (The show isn’t great. Too many “experts” reiterating the obvious, but the idea is good.)

Anyway, they piggybacked 20 car batteries and were deciding how to recharge them. They considered manpower, but it was unfeasible because they didn’t have enough calories to burn.

I guess I could see working on more efficient transfer of power and better transformers/inverters to keep leakage minimal. But as a long-term off the grid solution, we are a long way from that.

@CWOTUS Thanks for breaking down the technical part for me a little bit though it would be a great exaggeration to say I understand.

Say all the cardio machines as the are in this case are in one general area, and the cords are routed to a handful of outlets that could potentially be on one breaker, maybe given capacity constraints two… Then we can get out of the back feed scenario since I am throughly beyond my depth and into the generator one. Which seems like it would be very straightforward. And if by leaving it on there was power drainage then employees could just switch it on during peak hours when there are hardly enough machines for the demand.

The return on savings could eventually outweigh the start up cost and would there be any extra maintance costs involved?

@Blueroses Lol I don’t remember those particular shows though I know the idea isn’t new and has been used with varying degrees of authenticity in shows even though I can’t name one.

I have entertained the idea since membership because of of the (onboard) feature and the way the power cords are routed and well the mind wanders.

However with the increase of projects like solepower a kickstarter project, solar charging of phones etc…. It sounds more and more plausible. Ok devices are one thing but but…...

The machines aren’t designed to optimize conversion of human effort into electrical energy, but they could be. It actually isn’t a bad idea at all. Such machines could contribute a significant portion of the electricity needed to power a gym. An average human in good condition produces about 1/10th horsepower riding a bicycle at 12 MPH over a sustained period. Athletes in condition for bicycle racing can pump out ¼ HP for a time, but not on a sustained basis, as they will overheat. A well conditioned human running as fast as they can up a short staircase is using between 1 and 2 HP. Turning that around, and thinking of 50 to 100 machines churning out 1/10th to ¼ HP in a gym, you have enough power to turn a significant generator.

Let’s say 100 machines are in use, and 90% are producing 1/10th HP. The other 10 are averaging ¼ HP with some higher and some lower. Since 1 HP = 0.745699872 kW, that totals of 11.5 HP comes to about 8.5 Kilowatts. The buildings HVAC couldn’t get by one that, but if low energy lighting is used, it could probably light the building.

Thanks ET for the back up. And the conversions and actual human potential and what not.

I am even more excited about this…

Ed Begley has a rig that does this in a smaller scale but it still works. He had a show on Planet Green network for a couple of seasons.

I still remember him getting on his stationary bike each morning and cycling up enough power to make his breakfast toast.

But he also had a bank of solar panels on his roof connected to storage batteries so he already had the basic conversion network set up for this kind of thing and I’m assuming he just connected the bike into that. If one were attempting to do the bike thing absent the overall setup already in place, I imagine it might be rather costly.

It was a pretty interesting show with a lot of nifty green ideas of all types.

And there you have it. The capital expense and continuing maintenance… to provide enough power to make toast.

This kind of makes my point. The cost of the electricity to make toast – provided on a pretty reliable basis to your home continuously – is in the neighborhood (depending on your neighborhood) of about 7¢ to maybe 20¢ per kilowatt-hour. What that means is: 1000 watts for 1 hour. Your toaster may draw 1000 watts (maybe), but it probably doesn’t take an hour for you to make toast in it, does it? So… figure maybe a nickel to make your toast in the morning. A nickel.

And for that, you want to pay hundreds of dollars (at least) to buy a generator and wire that back to your home system? It’s not a wise investment. No return. It’s not impossible to do, it’s just not a smart thing to do.

——
The problem with “backfeed” is exactly what you’d be attempting to do if you become a co-generator (like your local power generation company) to send power back through your meter (turning it backwards, and thereby selling power back to the utility company). When the power to your home fails from time to time, the utility workers who come to fix the problem (usually at the street, such as to replace a blown transformer or repair a downed electric power line) turn off the power to the lines which the utility company would otherwise have energized. Note the emphasis: they can only turn off the power supplies that they know about and can control. If they don’t know about the power generation going on at your home or facility, and being wired back to the street, and if they don’t have a way to turn that off, then they are at high risk of electrocution when they start to work. So the power company has very stringent rules about who may put power back out to the street, and the type of equipment they use to regulate that (at the power board for the house or business, and not at the wall outlet), and how it is installed and maintained.

All to save a nickel a day?

@CWOTUS I do not think in the case of a gym there would even be a need for a backfeed meter. The lighting and building HVAC would almost certainly consume more power than the humans exercising in it would generate. Having a storage battery would be worthwhile for those times when the weather outside is perfect, and open windows negate the need for HVAC. The point would be to reduce overall power use, not to actually generate electricity for sale back to the utility. However, it the building were also fitted with solar roof panels, it could easily run its meter backwards. Such meters are available where utilities are prepared to offer them, and more are coming on stream all the time. Buying power from green customers to sell to those who still aren’t green is far more cost efficient than funding all the permitting and environmental impact studies plus the direct cost of building new power plants.

You are both correct. I think it depends on interpretation of the question.

Could you generate enough power to keep the gym running? Possibly.

Could you transfer that energy to the grid as a supplement? Nope. Not only would it not make a difference if you count all the wattage your unused appliances draw, but for what @CWOTUS said also. You cannot upload to the existing power supply and it would be foolish and dangerous to try.

@Blueroses That’s only because in most of the US, we haven’t modernized our power gird. In parts of the US, including here, and in most of Europe, meters are bidirectional and if your home generates more than it consumes, you get a check from the electrical utility instead of the other way around.

@ETpro I stand corrected, if I stood in your yard.

@Blueroses I should actually say that bidirectional meters are available, and the power utility is set up to deal with them. The homeowner still has to invest in the meter, along with the energy production technology that will make it worthwhile to have.

Hmm I am puzzled how we can arrive at these conclusions not considering amout of peak hours. My gym has 3 peaks both lasting roughly two hours for example. Then I want to consider the cost per kwh hour minus fuel and customer charge is .097 per kwh. Then consider the building is longterm investment. Considerable amount of money and time went into renovating it. Then consider there would never be enough power generated to need bidirectional or to turn the meter backwards considering HVAC hotwater heaters for showers and tanning booths, blowdryers, lights, music, tvs. It would just be a long term investment in reducing energy costs….

But since the gym isn’t specifically eco friendly and there wouldn’t be any profit from it maybe is unworkable.

@Buttonstc I don’t watch tv but I do recal seeing previews for a show like that it looked good.

@CWOTUS

I was actually making the exact same point that you were. I guess you missed one sentence I wrote, namely:

“If one were attempting to do the bike thing absent the overall setup already in place, I imagine it might be rather costly.”

The reason it wasn’t costing Ed Begley an untoward amount of money for his morning toast is because he ALREADY HAD the solar panels and sufficient storage batteries set up.

He just connected in the bike setup as a sort of semi-mandatory exercise system to “earn” his daily bread, so to speak. Obviously he could have done without it altogether as the solar panels generated quite enough energy for many mornings of toast sans bicycle. But it was just his slightly humorous way of making a point.

And the majority of the energy needs for his entire house are met from those solar panels.

And, yes, those solar panels are rather pricy but obviously pay off over time.

Oh, I did more than “miss it”, @Buttonstc. I plain stopped reading after “toast”, since that had made the point for me.

The main reason that Ed Begley does these kinds of publicity stunts is to make his political points, because even with the storage infrastructure in place, it must cost more than is economically justified to add even a small generator to an exercise bicycle for the daily nickel’s worth of electricity, I think. So that gets to the other reason: he can afford the added cost and performing the stunt appeals to him.

Ok so you dislike Ed Begley.

Really nothing much more to say.

@CWOTUS Actually, as a mechanical engineer, I can tell you it would be a very simple retrofit for anyone with a shop and some wood and metalworking skills.

Save your breath ET. He doesn’t want to hear it.

It has already been tainted by (gasp!) Ed Begley. Therefore, it is already suspect.

Don’t confuse the issue with facts :)

@Buttonstc Never deal with facts when an ad hominem fallacy is available to dismiss them.

You two are even more full of shit than usual now.

Someone point out the ad hominem to me, please. I had an opinion of something that Ed Begley does for his own amusement and purposes, and that is read as ad hominem?

@CWOTUS I read what @Buttonstc originally noted about the storage batteries, solar cells, etc. all already being in place and this guy (frankly, I have no idea who Ed Begley is) hooking up a generator to his exercise bike and getting a morning workout to earn his toast. As a mechanical engineer, I know that if I already had the supporting infrastructure in place, and an exercise bike, I could pick up a small generator and easily drive it from the exercise bike. There is nothing pernicious about someone doing that. You dismissed it all because of who it was doing it, not what was done. That’s an ad hominem.

I get that you don’t like the guy. Maybe with good reason. Maybe he did do it because it would be something to brag about. But that has nothing to do with the validity of generating electricity to exercise and earning your breakfast in the bargain. The idea remains sound given the right conditions.

Hmm interesting.

I actually think the ad hominem fallacy fallacy here.

The difference seems to be vague costs, no actual real time users so approximation of value.

My view is ya’ll are basically arguing apples and oranges. @CWOTUS does not like Ed Begley but that is because he sees no value in what he is doing. In his point of the real life cost efficiency and practicality it is in his estimation not worth it. Now @ETpro and @Buttonstc see more value in it possibly subsdized by the value being eco friendly is in their life.

I think if we are to be productive in this argument we need real life figures and experiences. Probably not in part funded by publicity and such.

Say this were a marketed product and therefore the expense was cut by mass production, how often would it be used and how long would it be have be used to pay for itself?

I forgot to add the economic and environmental impact if the proposed bike were mass produced of thousands of people in a power station area and consumer used it at a minimum of 20 minutes 5 days a week, some less and some more. It is probably the leasr efficient way to do things but if you were already planning on buying an exercise machine why not.

I see another possible benefit as I live in an area that had to shut down power stations for maintenance and urged conservation so we did not have to fall back on our power companies giant but expensive back up generator in the short fall.

From the perspective of being raised by any true AKan owns their own back up generator because of the emphasis on preparedness and the essentialness of power/heat.

If power were cut in winter even for the 8 hours if cold enough, wo a back up heater or generator things could be a lot more then uncomfortable but a huge mess (frozen/bursting pipes etc). But back up gens are expensive to run and exercise would be a great way to stay warm. So in that respect it might be worth more then in another location.

That would make a HUGE difference, @Unbroken. That’s why I am somewhat impatient with naysayers that look at every new idea and only see the reasons why it can’t work. The individuals from each generation that we celebrate as great entrepreneurs are the ones that look at crazy ideas and figure out how they can work.

Ooops..

I think it might but it is probably the least efficient way to go about it. Butterfly effect.

Though i consider a carido machine worthless unless it is somehow giving back. So inefficient in one way but multipurpose in another.. : )