What do you think about this example of racism? Is it racism?

I will answer the last question first. Is there really any difference? Yes and no. Yes, because the contexts are different: making fun of the way ‘those black people speak’ has a different history than does making fun of people (Italian or not) who are unable to speak ‘properly’ or whatever. No, because making fun of either is stupid.

Now, to your main question. I don’t watch the show, so I’ll just go on what you write here. I define racism to include personal and structural components so, to me, it wasn’t necessarily racist unless Aaryn assumes all black people do one particular thing as a result of their being black and works specifically, in her life, to prevent them from being equal. Otherwise, she, like many people in this society, is just a prejudiced dumbass.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I only mention she is Italian to help describe the stereotypical dialect and accent of “those” Italians.

It so depends on the reason and the context. Sometimes I’ll say something a certain way and Rick will “make fun of me,” but it’s funny. I do the same to him. When my grand daughter was 3 she came up with the word “squirried” in place of squirrel. It just caught on and the whole family says “squirried” now. Is it wrong?

When you’re friends with someone and you genuinely like them, a little good natured teasing shouldn’t be offensive, unless someone chooses to make it so.

I don’t watch the show so I can’t say really (there is probably more underlining all this, as you seem to imply) but, for me personally, if someone is mispronouncing a word around me often I will randomly start slipping up and saying it that way. I don’t find her saying “now you got me saying it” to be racist at all.

The best example I can give of this is when I was in Belize where they speak Kriol. IMO it’s butchered English. Still after 4 months down there I would speak like that a lot more often, it just happened due to the environment I was in.

Bagels

She’s from the South and although she seems to be out of line quite often, to her that is probably fairly normal. She made comments about Asians, too, not just blacks, then when confronted, she said it was too ridiculous to even respond to. She needs a sensitivity course!

So true, @uberbatman. If I go to Texas or Oklahoma to visit family, after a couple of days my accent gets twangier.
When I go to Seattle people will comment on my Kansas accent, and sometimes mimic the way I say a word, with a mild Southern accent. Is that “racist?” It doesn’t hurt my feelings. Now, if someone said, “Your accent makes you sound ignorant,” that would be a different thing.

Perhaps the character in the show was taking offense because saying “aks” instead of “ask” sounds like a little kid trying to pronounce a word for the first time, and here she is, a grown up and still doesn’t how to pronounce? It would embarrass me. I think sometimes we take “offense’ rather than admitting it’s embarrassing. I know I feel embarrassed if I find out I’ve been pronouncing a word wrong all of this time. That happens when I’ve seen a word written, but never heard it pronounced.

The other day I was talking with an artistic acquaintance and I used the word “sepia.” I pronounced it SEP e ah, just like you would any word that starts with “sep.” Separate. Septic. She kept pronouncing it “SEEP e ah.’ I thought she was just stupid (I don’t like her much!) but I finally looked it up. Guess what….she was right. From dictionary.com “se·pi·a [see-pee-uh] ”

I don’t know if it’s racism, but making fun of people’s way of speaking can be very hurtful not matter what.

Both Aaryn and GinaMarie have brutalized Candice in racist ways, both behind her back and right to her face.

Personally, I would never make fun of GinaMarie’s accent or malapropisms. I’m not that mean. But, GinaMarie seems to enjoy laughing about herself; she’s fond of self-deprecating humor and often instigates the teasing. So, it would seem that there are no bad feelings, and I see no racism when white people joke with another white person (especially when the subject initiated the discussion).

Candice, by contrast, isn’t amused by the fake Ebonics and ongoing stabs at African American culture.

The irony of all this – Candice is an educated, articulate person who speaks beautifully. She doesn’t use hood or ghetto dialects. She has a lovely voice and an excellent command of the English language.

Not having watched the crap & with no intention of ever doing so I can’t possibly form a balanced opinion…so I won’t.

Are we talking about a sitcom?

@Dutchess_III No, “Big Brother” is a so-called reality show.

A number of people stay in a small, cramped house for the entire summer and have no contact with the outside world. There are no movies to watch or books to read, so all the housemates can do is eat, sleep, and talk with each other. The show is one of my guilty pleasures, because it really is fun to watch people go insane under self-imposed captivity. Weird things happen.

I say that it’s a “so-called reality show,” because there are no true reality shows. The events and outcomes are heavily manipulated by producers and editors. There’s a reason for that; people sitting around, talking about nothing, are very boring, and each show’s creators need to keep things interesting and entice viewers to continue watching.

It’s a social experiment. Aaryn’s comments have made a disclaimer necessary for the first time ever.

I wonder if they write racism into the program? You know, for the shock value/ratings.

@Dutchess_III I’m sure it was a factor in picking her. Some things have to come through on the testing they do before casting.

Racism can be subtle too. For example ‘I just love black people’ or I find ‘people of color amazing’ that is racist. I reckon (and not knowing the show at all) if a speech therapist says aksed it is suspicious and insidious.

The bigger question is that the black girl feels singled out because of her race. Acknowledging that is the first step in trying to have a true dialogue. I have no idea what the answer is, but we will never get there unless we have a fearless conversation with active listening about how these things make all involved feel. We learn that someone is offended and we just stop the offending behavior without understanding the feelings behind it. We don’t want to offend again so we just shut up. Better to have a dialog, and learn why someone finds it offensive. Sometimes the offender has no ill intent but lacks understanding. If we could just feel safe enough to say, “Please, I want understanding, explane it to me,” and if the person offended felt safe enough to explain exactly why they were offended, what feelings the words brought up then maybe there would be some better understanding in the world.
I made a comment on my nieces Facebook page about Rap lyrics often being disrespectful to women. Her friends labeled me a racist. No one ever explained to me how what I said was racist and I really want to understand. Where’s the dialog?

@SadieMartinPaul So you think Aaryn purposely used Ebonics in that moment with everyone in her HOH room to make fun of her. That it didn’t just slip? I completely disagree if that is what you think.

Also, Candice admitted she says aks. She tried to make herself feel better by calling it a dialect, which I agree it is. We have had people here on fluther try to defend Ebonics as just as valid as English, which I take issue with. I have no problem with people using slag and dialects, but then they can’t get upset about it. Why shouldn’t she be able to laugh it off like Gina? I do have sympathy for Candice, I do think Gina and Aaryn have said and done some insensitive things. Candice will get the last laugh since Aaryn lost her modeling contract because of it. But, seriously, being offended easily can get annoying. Aaryn knew she made a mistake as she said it. She knew it might be taken badly by Candice, but I don’t think she said it for that affect. Aaryn certainly is difficult to defend, don’t get me wrong. She admits to being nice for now to people as a strategy, at heart she is a bit of a mean girl no question.

@Judi I do agree that since she feels singled out it all falls on her harder, even a joke or innocent mistake. But, also the fact is that black people do say it, she says it. People make fun of how I say coffee. It’s one of the words my NY comes out.

Interesting what happened on facebook. I think it is ridiculous they try to call you racist. That is basically the same sort of thing and I just don’t know what to think about it. What should we think? Ok, black men sing horrible things about women and if they men and women are ok with it in their subculture we should support it? That calling it out is somehow ethnocentric? It’s so complicated.

It was in this context. My niece who is white and has a half black daughter who is 5 posted a comment about her daughter and her best friends son, also half black. I know that my niece and her friend listen to rap exclusively.
Her friends son (also 5) had said something sexually explicit and semi violent to her daughter. He obviously didn’t know what he was saying and they were laughing about it. I commented “to much rap.”

^^^The things people think are funny. >_<

All I know from watching the show, is that Aaryn is offensive to most of the house and could care less. Julie even asked Howard (the black guy who has been offended) and he said that he just chose not to address it. Aaryn is 22 and from Texas.

The saddest thing to me, is that he accepted it without comment and him and his girl cried together about how much it hurt them. The guy is black and from Mississippi, he’s probably taken that crap all his life. It makes me furious and I try to vote her out every week.

Check this out:
Clawson was recently seen/heard on Big Brother cameras calling a gay houseguest “Kermit the F**” ... and praising Adolf Hitler as a “gifted speaker.”.....
Basically, they’re exploring their options regarding his termination.
A group of cast members on BB15 have been under scrutiny since being overheard bashing fellow contestants on the live, uncensored, online feeds.
CBS edits the thrice-weekly broadcasts, but the feeds are as-is.
Clawson isn’t alone in this predicament. GinaMarie Zimmerman and Aaryn Gries have already lost their day jobs due to racist comments they made on the show.

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2013/07/spencer-clawson-big-brother-15-cast-member-in-big-trouble-at-wor/

Wait…they WANT to get kicked off?

@Dutchess_III No, they have to stay to win the big money, but ‘America’ gets to vote sometimes, and when we do, I always try to vote Aaryn off.

My curiosity with my niece and her friends was that they didn’t think there might be a connection. I really wanted to understand their thinking but it was so emotional and name calling that I never understood.

It doesn’t matter what color Candice is. If Candice says “aksed” often and another person, who is around Candice all the time, accidentally says it and then blames it on Candice, I don’t see the problem. As long as Aaryn never brought up race, fuck Candice. She’s the one who’s turning it in to a race thing.

For the record I have never watched an episode of Big Brother so I’m going by what you presented int he original post.

Race notwithstanding, one way to look really stupid is to say aksed, instead of asked.

@josie Maybe they should go to the li..bary, ha!

OMG! For those of you who watch the show, did you see it last night? Did you see what Amanda called Candice? I won’t give more details in case, I don’t want to spoil it.

@JLeslie Yeah, it was horrible. See, that’s why I keep voting for Amanda, she’s incredibly insensitive, bossy, demanding, confrontational, just an ugly person to anyone who disagrees with her.

Her own boyfriend was over it. I feel sorry for Candice, she tried to stay cool.

Well, hell. Give details @JLeslie! We don’t watch it!

@KNOWITALL I think Amanda was horrible to Candice, it was truly to be mean, while Aaryn I excuse a little more because she is young, pretty, been most popular girl all or most of her life, and is excused a little because she is clueless. Not excused exactly, she is responsible for her behavior obviously, but she is about to learn that some of what she says really can have a negative impact and is not funny to some people, can actually be very hurtful or even scary. But, Amanda, she knows all too well what she is doing and no excuse in my mind.

But, and I know some people will jump on me for saying this, Candice did bring out the “black” know what I mean? Amanda reacted to how Candice was acting. It’s like Gina saying Candice is a rat (which I disagree with for a side note, I think the red headed guy is the most two faced person in the joint. I can’t remember his name) and rat is so mafiosa to go with how we can stereotype Gina, and people definitely laughed at her. Anyway, Candice’s behavior did make me wonder how she is off camera. Meaning, not during the regular show, I don’t typically watch after hours.

No matter what they are all out of control with the caddy and mean behavior.

@Dutchess_III I’ll PM you.

@JLeslie Well, JL, she only ‘Shanique’d’, after Amanda was giving her crap. She’s been demeaned because of her race several times, and she finally got tired of taking the crap Amanda was shoveling, so she just let it out, released the pressure.

And she is black, it’s about time she was able to stop pretending she wasn’t, does that make sense? After Aaryn’s idiocy, I was proud of Candice for being who she REALLY is.

*Catty

@KNOWITALL I don’t think she is pretending to be educated and speak well. I think she has various parts of her personality like everyone else. When Ricky Ricardo sprang into Spanish when he was yelling at Lucy it was because he was Cuban, and Candice basically did the same. We all can lapse, so to speak, into our fighting voices when we are triggered, but it doesn’t mean the other parts of us are pretending.

Amanda never should have said what she said. It was dead wrong. Amanda’s BB world is cracking and she knows it.

@JLeslie You’re right. Maybe ‘suppressed’ would more accurate.

If someone makes fun of your ebonics or accent to the point you cry and truly are hurt, you probably won’t revert to using ebonics for awhile, that’s all I meant. :)

@KNOWITALL Honestly, I just see it as two different languages and knowing when to use which one. I tend to be a when in Rome type person.

I watch Judge Alex and he often has black litigants. To me, it’s sad to see some of them trying to talk intelligently, really trying but they just fall short because they really don’t know how to speak the language properly. Some white people do it too (saying things like “We was walking….”) but blacks do it more.

There’d been some media reports about Amanda’s racist and homophobic comments, but she hadn’t received much attention until last night. She’s horrific. At first, Candice tried to ignore Amanda; that’s Step 1 for dealing with a bully. When ignoring the bully doesn’t work, Step 2 is to stand firm and give it right back; often, a bully is a coward who’ll retreat at the first sign of a challenge.

Neither tactic worked with Amanda. She just kept coming after Candice. When they were standing next to each other, after they’d both lost the challenge, Amanda was whispering more insults (how amazingly childish).

Have you read the allegations that Amanda is a friend of producer Alison Grodin and a former P.A. for “Big Brother”? (That’s why Amanda was chosen to have a heart-to-heart chat with Aaryn about Aaryn’s own behavior.) Supposedly, the entire 15th season has been rigged for Amanda to win. Well, now that Amanda’s become such an embarrassment to CBS, I’m predicting that she’ll leave the house tonight.

@SadieMartinPaul I didn’t know any of the stuff about Amanda Is a friend or former PA. That is a scandal if it is true. I can’t believe CBS would allow someone “related” to the program on the show. But, then, Julie Chen sometimes is looked at for the nepotism in the family.

I don’t know why they would pick Amanda to warn Aaryn, that scandal probably helped ratings. I also don’t see how it could really be rigged for one person to win.

Amanda was unbelievable when she was whispering mean things to Candice and then tried to lie about it. McCrae called her out on it and told her she was a liar and stupid.

I am shocked she is the ne America keeps putting up though. Although, for a while my husband and I were shocked no one was going after Amanda and McCrae, it made no sense not to try to split that alliance that was right out there in the open.

Amanda won’t be able to control herself I’m guessing. When I am upset or angry or feel out of control I tend to not be able to shut up either. But, I don’t lie and I would not use some sort of derogatory term or childlike teasing. Name calling and that sort of thing really bothers me. I’ll fight hard verbally, but not do anything like that, I just can’t understand how people do such a thing.

@JLeslie “I also don’t see how it could really be rigged for one person to win.”

Like all “reality” shows, “Big Brother” is heavily manipulated by its producers.

When people go to the Diary Room, they’re asked strategic questions to lead and influence their actions (we see only the houseguests’ answers; we never hear the other side of the conversation). Sometimes, the game rules change to create a different outcome. A few seasons ago, CBS didn’t approve of an HOH’s nominations for eviction. CBS came up with a “coup d’état” prize that allowed someone else to override the nominations and render the HOH useless.

I have to admit, ladies, I told my husband that I was wondering if Amanda’s aunty flo was visiting because she was out of control. I never say thing’s like that EVER! :)

The whispering, calling people liars, and during that contest though, that was to the point I probably would have lost it on her. I kind of liked her at first, but now, she’s a jealous shrew with McCrae and a mean person in general- ugh.

You guys crack me up. I have enough drama in my life without watching someone else’s play out on TV! This is craziness.

Ya! ^^^

@Judi I was just thinking the same thing…

I watch very few reality shows. One of the things I love about this show is my husband lives it, he got me into it, and so it is something we watch together. He also watches very few reality shows. I can’t even think of another one I watch with any regularity. Once in a while I catch an episode of some other one.

@SadieMartinPaul @KNOWITALL Did you see it tonight? WTH?! I cannot believe who they got rid of in the second eviction tonight. That’s crazy. I won’t say who in case you haven’t seen it yet. Unbelievable.

Husband loves it not lives it.

@JLeslie I think that Evictee #2 was fully blindsided and just as confused as everyone at home.

That was just pointless. Why get rid of him now? Aaryn could not even look in his direction.

Poor Judd, he’s such a doofus, lol, I don’t think he even cared much.

@JLeslie That’s why I watch it, hubs likes it, probably the girls, but better than 24/7 sports – lol