What ever happened to patriotism?

Which one? The one in which Holland ruled the waves and considered the world it’s orchard?

Or the one in which citizens shoot each other? Or the one that made military boots march through Europe?

This world can do without patriotism, I feel. We live in one world and we influence each other far beyond national bounderies. Let’s go for solidairity and cworld citizinship, where our sympathies go out to other people based on something else then their passports.

@whitenoise Can you really have solidarity without a common allegiance? Look, since the dawn of time people have created antagonists for themselves. I get that. It’s a fact of the human condition. It just seems we have found ours as a nation by looking inward. We are our own worse enemy and I fear it’s tearing us apart. I don’t think you can have solidarity without patriotism.

<tin foil hat>
I have a hard time believing the country is as evenly divided. 105,586,274 votes in 2000. How are we dealing with a 1% difference? That seems like insanity. That is total popular vote. How in the world is it that the difference is only one%?
</tin foil hat>

@DWW25921

Isn’t that our challenge? It has always been our group think that got in our way.

Our problems/challenges as a species have never been as big as they are now. We can no longer afford the attitude we had at the dawn of time.

One can of course love one’s country, as one would love one’s children,even if they aren’t truly children to be proud of. Patriotism is more than love though… it implies pride, loyalty, and support; regardless of merit.

If you want to support / endorse your country then you should be basing that support on what principles and standards that country stands for. The ideals behind it, the way a country manifests itself through actions and adheres to those standards and beliefs.

Patriotism isn’t about underlying ideals, standards, or morals, though. It is about loving your patria, merely because it is your patria and not for any other reason. Patriotism stands in the way of critical evaluation of your country’s ways and making sure to strive for its ideals.

A quote on the subject seems fitting (J.B. Zimmermann): “the love for one’s country … is in many cases no more than the love of an ass for its stall”

@whitenoise Interesting point I shall have to ponder. Maybe I’m holding on to what our country used to be or what I want it to be. I’m doing the same thing I’ve always accused the Republicans and Democrats of. Clinging to an idea of what things should be. Disregarding the facts before me as they’re clearly equally useless and a hindrance to any real progress. I love the idea of America. I certainly don’t like how it’s being run. Each election cycle things get worse. That annoys me to no end.

In theory, pride, loyalty and support are earned. Certainly in personal matters but taking it to a national level things get complicated. I think it’s important to try for the sake of unity. Although, I think at the core this country has a problem with respect. Respect for the sovereignty of others is implied by their very existence but not necessarily given. If we are to have unity it starts there.

Than there’s hope. If people give up there can be no unity. People need to believe they can make a real, positive change. Not arrogantly spouted political nonsense but actual, tangible progress. I honestly don’t think that most Americans care about anything else beyond their front doors. I think I worked it out.

Respect needs to start in the home, where it will spread. From there it will encompass the nation and we will have unity. At that point patriotism will be earned. After all, that’s how America got started. A few neighbors with an idea. Maybe. I hope it happens.

It has always been thus.

John Adams – remember him? second president? wrote most of the Constitution? you must have heard of him at some point – never wanted political parties in the USA. He knew what would happen, when party loyalty would trump what seemed “best” for the country.

You should read about his re-election fight with Thomas Jefferson in 1800. Those two did all but challenge each other to a duel – and you think today’s fights are bitter? – and they had been nominal friends since the start of the Revolution, 24 years earlier.

No, inter-party fights are nothing new, and nothing to be so alarmed about. It’s just politics.

Patriotism is alive and well in my area of America. We still fly our flag and show respect to our Commander-In-Chief, whether he’s in our party or not. I have friends and family from other countries and they love America, too.

My daughter was in Spain when 911 happened. She said that all the nationalism and flag waving scared people. It reminded them of the blind allegiance people had to Hitler.
Loving your country is great but the world is becoming smaller. Patriotism for the sake of patriotism is becoming more like tribalism. In this day and age, with a global economy and rapid travel and communications it makes more since to see ourselves as citizens of a common planet than just a section of a continent.

@Judi Patriotism, to me, is a celebration of everything that makes our country amazing, and it’s a good thing.

When I see starving children in Sudan, or gangs of armed children in Africa, Egyptians rioting killing each other in the streets, it makes me appreciate that I can walk down a street in America without fear.

All I’m saying is that when half the ‘common planet’ is hell bent on murder, perhaps a little appreciation of your own relative safety is in order. Because a lot of us have family who fought and died to make sure it was safe for us, so to me, it seems ungrateful NOT to celebrate that.

I know this is a liberal site and they aren’t known for patriotism, but I’m sick of the America bashing. People are literally dying to get here and enjoy everything this country has to offer.

@KNOWITALL, no argument there unless we delude ourselves about how safe it is.
We have more gun violence, a higher infant mortality rate, and a higher incarceration rate than most industrialized nation.
To say we are better just because we are born here is a lot of denial.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my country but I will not deceive myself into thinking she is living up to her full promise.

@Judi I’m not in denial or deluding myself, this is still a great country. Maybe it’s being ran by an idiot, maybe it has been ran by a lot of idiots for a long time, but that is OUR faults, not the country’s.

I’d rather take my chances here than in Egypt wouldn’t you? Or Syria? Or Iraq? Or Israel? Or even good old Mexico?

There’s a lot of places more unsafe than America, and I’m still able to protect myself within the confines of a legal system (broken or not), some countries just kill you, you know? No due process.

Anyway, sorry to rant, I’m just tired of Americans bitching constantly and not bothering to shoot one email to a congressman. Help fix it, or shut up, that’s how I feel.

Mass media, poor education, and a party based political system killed patriotism.

@DWW25921 – You asked: “Can you really have solidarity without a common allegiance?”
Can’t being Earthlings be our common allegiance? Why define and limit ourselves by some boundaries- many of which are imaginary lines on a map?

@hearkat I don’t think most people think globally. I believe that we as humans are generally local creatures that can see only as far as we can psychically see. Most people don’t have the means to travel to distant places so why bother thinking about it?

The world would be a much better place with less patriotism and more empathy.

I was thinking about this question this morning and thought that the best way to be patriotic is really to speak up about the injustices on our country. After all, the preamble to the constitution says that we are working towards forming a more perfect union. The most unAmerican thing, the most unpatriotic thing we can do is settle and blindly wave our flag without continuing to protest and strive for a more perfect union.

That is an excellent point @Judi about working toward a more perfect union.

Evidently there are a lot of people out there who feel that we reached that point some time prior to the Great Depression while others think it was in the 1950’s prior to the Civil Rights Movement when everyone knew their place and liked it.

Regardless, they would like to see us slide back to that perceived point of perfection.

To me patriotism is different than nationalism. Nationalism is Hitleresque to me. Blindly following the country with blind allegiance. Patriotism for me is appreciating the country we live in for what it offers, what we have benefitted from by being here, and believing in the ideals of the country, although we sometimes fall short of playing those ideals out. Since patriotism can look a lot like nationalism, many people tread litely at displaying their love or appreciation for the country.

Most of the western world are appalled by nationalism, and countries like Germany especially I find the citizens won’t come near anything close to it. Patriotism can set off an air of believing our country is better than any other. People generally don’t like to see that sort of boasting. I think we live in one of the best countries in the world, but I certainly don’t think we are the best. I don’t feel the US is the only place that has freedom prosperity and opportunity. In years past the US was more unique in the world; a country governed by representatives of the people, with freedom of religion, openly taking in new immigrants, and a chance to get ahead no matter what station in life you came from. Now, many countries fit this bill. Some people believe some countries do some things better than the US.

I still feel very patriotic, but I also feel as if I am a citizen of the world. That we all are. The more you interact with people from different countries, I think the more the world begins to feel very small and accessible.

@Judi I love your answer about working towards forming a more perfect union. My dad used to say you are at point A, and your goal is B. the path to your goal is almost never a straight line. It zigs and zags.

@rojo I think people who talk about our country being great before the civil rights movement tend to want to ignore how horrific life was for so many of our citizens. Prior to the great depression we had very difficult time for new immigrants, lack of protections for laborers, there was all sorts of negative things in the country. What I think was very different was the media, everything from balanced journalism to what was on the radio and TV; and the bombardament we have today of electronic messages, and other sorts of technology that have sped up our pace of life.