Does truth matter?

Truth, as a construct, matters to me mostly when others claim to have it and, going further, take steps (as or through structures or systems or societal institutions) to pathologize any other way of seeing/being/knowing what’s true when it comes to a less ‘legitimate’ group.

Truth is. And since it is, it matters.

I suggest it matters most.

The biggest question I have is not “Does truth matter?”. But instead, “Is truth matter?”.

It matters to me. The whole naivety of it messes with my head. I don’t want to doubt someone and I don’t want to look stupid if I trust and then that turns out to be a mistake.

Truth can be subjective. My truth isn’t always your truth.

Ignorance doesn’t seem to be bliss for the truly ignorant people I’ve ever known.

“And what is ‘truth’? Is truth unchanging law? We both have truths. Are mine the same as yours?”
Pontius Pilate from Jesus Christ, Superstar

I would not put Truth in opposition to Ignorance. Know the Truth as best you can, we will never know everything. But do not be dishonest to oneself, and fight the internal dishonesty as best you can.

To some people it matters a lot. To some it doesn’t matter at all. I know which I prefer.

@flutherother Tru dat.

It matters, but there may be limits to how much it matters. As a simple example, if my wife is telling someone about something that happened, something that I had also seen, and I notice some trivial inaccuracy in her account of the events, I don’t feel that I’m morally bound to step in and set the record straight. Does that make me complicit in an untruth? Maybe. But I think that it’s possible for truth to be subordinate to other values, such as harmony in the above case.

There are times when being a stickler for the truth is worth it, because the value of that truth really does trump other concerns. But there are also times when being a stickler for the truth is just a way of asserting your own superior grasp of the facts and logic, and it comes at the price of things that really matter more.

Truth is the Principal thing,
Which found in any and every thing.

Though all actually know it, most remain woefully unaware of its true benefit.
And while many seem diligent to seek, their seeking is spiced with clever deceit.

Thus to them The Actual Truth remain that elusive commodity.
Subtly substituted by pompous dogmatism and False humility.

And by their hollow words they set nets for their own feet.
And with much shame their heads hung in utter defeat.

I believe truth matters, because truth is reality, and ignorance is illusion and delusion.
Entire lives and nations have been ruined by untruths.

In order to decide whether truth matters, you must first define truth. I don’t think that truth is subjective, but @KNOWITALL (as an example) does. Clearly, we must have different definitions for what truth is. Perhaps @KNOWITALL has a different word for what I think of as truth. Until we know that we are all referring to the same thing, it’s impossible to usefully compare our answers.

@glacial “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. et al”

Not all truths are self-evident. ETpro doesn’t believe God exists and I do. Neither is able to be proved via evidence, so my truth is different than his truth. Just like slavery and the vote for women if you need further examples.

@KNOWITALL Yes, the difference I think is that I don’t think of these as truths so much as beliefs. You reference the Declaration as if it defines truth – but that’s no sacred document to me. ;)

Honesty matters.

As for truth, whose truth are we talking about?

You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

@Blondesjon A few good men, love it!!!

Western ideals of truth seem pretty obvious, ironclad, and not really up for debate. However when you look at the Japanese viewpoint , you see that truth may be reasonably construed as a human-centric thing. As others have mentioned, honesty is perhaps a better ideal
I think most Westerners think of tatamae as clearly a lie, but in japan it is considered, without any guile, a type of truth.

Truth is not absolute. As @KNOWITALL pointed out, my truth is different from your truth. Honesty and accountability matter.

Wait a second. Are some of us claiming that there is no such thing as objective reality?

If there is a small field mouse sitting on the table in front of us, my “truth” can be that it’s an elephant, and your “truth” can be that it’s a can of creamed corn?

I’ll admit that I don’t regularly use the word “truth”. But I assumed it meant something that was objective and reflected reality. When people are using truth in the “everyone has their own” way, what exactly do you mean by truth? Define it – not by example. In other words, is there an objective reality – regardless of whether or not we have the tools to accurately obtain the nature of that reality?

Well this discussion certainly took an interesting turn. I had not foreseen the debate about whether truth is subjective or objective. It’s a most interesting discussion, and really gets to the heart of what prompted me to ask the question. Rather than risk derailing that the discussion, I’ll bide my time and let that debate proceed.

By way of definition, honesty is saying what you believe to be true. When a schizophrenic says that he channels the communications of the ghost of Achilles, it’s entirely possible he’s being honest, and believes fervently he is telling the truth. However, since Achilles is a fictional character, it is all but certain he is not telling the truth. It is far more likely that he’s hearing from errant neurons in his own head.

There is one kind of truth I inherently distrust when it is simply asserted by a fellow human and not by observable fact. That is inerrant truth. Only one post has advanced such a position, seemingly claiming to be in possession of absolute truth. That, I think, is not true. To avoid getting censured by moderators, I will not say what answer that was. I leave you to guess.

Thanks to all who replied and please continue the discussion. This is incredibly interesting stuff.

@ETpro and, sadly, it is true, Spooney the cat is about to jump over the moon soon.

@Coloma. It is Spoony—no “e”. And I might like to believe you are right, but I think that it’s far more likely her body will nourish the flower and herb garden she loved to visit on her rare supervised forays beyond our front door.

@ETpro Agreed.

Yes, truth matters the way lie does.

@9doomedtodie Again, by actual definition, being honest is the antonym of being deceitful or deliberately untruthful. It is possible to be completely honest and yet state something that is untrue. It is equally possible to deliberately lie and yet state something that is true. Lying has to do with how faithfully you state what you believe to be true.

The Greeks who proclaimed that Zeus was the Creator were not lying. They were, to their understanding, being entirely honest. But they were almost certainly stating an untruth. Truth has to do with what IS. And Zeus probably is not actually the creator of all existence.

Capital “T” Truth is reality itself. Our “truths” are our conceptual maps of reality. Mapping is always an imperfect process. Reality is infinitely subtle and shifting; maps are simplified and fixed.

Some maps are more accurate than others, of course, but the most accurate map is not always the most useful. A 1:24,000 USGS topo map is very accurate, but a far cruder Rand McNally road map would be much more useful in getting me from Syracuse to Miami. The same can apply to our conceptual maps.

Not only do maps omit some aspects of reality, they often also include features that are not, strictly speaking, actually there. This does not necessarily mean that the map is fallacious or even useless. As an example, a political map of the U.S. shows not only some actual physical features of the terrain, but will also show lines between states and counties. You won’t find these lines on the terrain, but the map nevertheless conveys useful information about social truths. Our conceptual maps are loaded with information like this, too. A prime example is the boundary on our conceptual maps that demarcates the distinction between self and other. This line is not an actual feature on the ground of reality, but it is a useful social convention. This is not so very different from the function that God plays in the conceptual maps of some.

Bad maps can get you in serious trouble, no doubt about it. It’s always necessary to verify the map against the terrain and, above all, to remember that it’s only a map, subject to all of the weaknesses of maps.

Nothing matters other than comfort not even truth…

@ETpro Factual truth is really all you can judge by. Like ‘this rock is hard’, because the color, texture and shape are subjective to each individual opinion.

Zeus could have been an alien with a ligh saber for all you know – lol

@KNOWITALL I am very thankful that we are not limited to just what we can experience with our unaided human senses in determining what is. If we still were, I would have died in childhood because we would have had no idea there were things called bacteria too small to see, but easily treated with antibiotics. In fact, most of us here today would have died in childhood.

And Zeus may have been an alien with technology, but that wouldn’t make him the creator of the Universe.