As a parent, how would you handle this classroom incident that the teacher described as "stealing?"?

I can’t envision the teacher telling me that my child stole something and not talking about and asking for details.

I mostly agree with you, but my belief system dictates that I always include my child in meetings with the teacher, preferably with the principal present (in elementary school, anyway).

I would not approach the meeting as a confrontation. I think there are key pieces of information that need to come to light, some from the teacher and some from the student. Also, the principal is useful to bring interpersonal and procedural issues to light.

I empower my kids to very respectfully and appropriately advocate for themselves and I would try to facilitate a dialogue between the student and teacher. They both have valid points, after all.

Yes, he was trying to right a wrong, but he should have asked permission to take the list off of his teacher’s desk. Yes, perhaps he “stole” (although I would not appreciate the use of the word, think it has much deeper connotations and is an incomplete picture of the incident), but he was trying to make up his missing work.

Neither can I @jca, but they did. Maybe the twins were screaming in the truck or something, and they didn’t have time to go any further.

I agree with much of what you’re saying @Cupcake, and the trouble was a consequence of him not doing the assignment originally. I said that in my details and also acknowledge that he was “just trying to fix the problem.”

But I don’t agree that the child should always be present when meeting with the teacher or the principal. In a parent teacher conference, yes. But when there is a problem and tempers could fly, no. Especially when the teacher is an idiot, as seems to be the case (See below.)

My daughter just called. The teacher’s first hour is a free period so she was in the empty classroom talking with the teacher…and Aden’s dad, Quentin showed up! The lady was on the classroom PA saying, “Aden’s dad is here too!” just as Quentin walked in and he was PISSED. The principal came in right after him.
He had with him a math assignment that Aden had been given. The lesson was for the kid to to

a) Write a math word problem
b) Use big numbers
c) It needed to be “real world” not fantasy. (If it had been me giving the assignment I would have said, “Cut loose! It can be anything you can pull out of your imagination! The crazier the better!”)

Aden wrote, “There were 500 bedrooms in the house. They sold 400 bedrooms. There were 100 bedrooms left.” He got a 0 because the teacher said, “You don’t sell bedrooms in a house! You can rent them, but not sell them!” This woman is a piece of work, I can tell you that.

The kids agreed to give it 3 weeks at which time they’ll transfer Aden to the other classroom if there is still a problem. If they refuse to allow the transfer Corrie said she’ll pull BOTH of her kids out of that school and take it to the school board.

They crossed paths with Aden as they were leaving the classroom. :) He was a line leader and there is his Mom and Dad, shoulder to shoulder walking down the hall together. He’s probably never seen that before! Quentin waved and grinned at him, and Aden sloooowly waved back. :) Wonder what’s going through his head the rest of the day!

@Dutchess_III I hear you, but I have never conducted myself in a way that promoted tempers flying. I don’t think it’s appropriate in a school. I would make sure that the tone of the meeting was child-friendly.

She really does sound like a piece of work, though.

Yeah, sounds like a really great teacher:-/ I think he should not have just taken something off the teacher’s desk without permission, but IMO the teacher has blown it way out of proportion. And I would never have called that ‘stealing’, either.

I wouldn’t either @Cupcake. Not generally. It is in my nature to conduct discussions logically, rationally and calmly. But when the teacher is an idiot it can be difficult not to get angry. It’s also not just about tempers. You need to be free to say things to the teacher, calmly, that you might not want to say in front of the child.

There has been only one time I cut loose on a teacher, and it was over the phone and my daughter wasn’t home to hear it. When my oldest, Jen, was in 2nd grade she came home from school pretty well traumatized. The teacher had had them watch Indiana Jones, the one where he’s eating monkey brains and ripping out hearts.

I called the teacher and tried to have a rational discussion, but her arguments were like, “It was so obviously fake! How could a kid get scared over something so obviously fake?”

I said, “Well, look back at your own child hood. “Whatever Happened to Baby Jane,” is obviously fake, to an adult, but at the time, as a kid, it scared the crap out of me. Surely you can remember something from your childhood that you would see in a completely different light now.”

At that point she condescendingly told me that she was “gifted,” that she was a prodigy, a genius, and she had never thought like a child. She had always viewed things like an adult would.

OK, we had been going around in circles for about 10 minutes like this, and at that point I lost my temper. I said, “So, you’re telling me you teach a bunch of 7 year olds and you have no idea how they think or feel????”

I was really losing it. I couldn’t make any headway against her arrogance.

Christmas break was coming up in a few weeks. I waited until then and pulled Jen out of the public school system and put her in a private school.

@ccrow We all agree he shouldn’t have taken it off the teacher’s desk, and his parents agree too, so that will be addressed. But I wouldn’t call it “stealing” either, and I’m sure Aden didn’t view it as stealing. Not sure what he was thinking beyond, “Hey! Here’s the spelling list! I can get my words written and get out of trouble!” He made a mistake. AND this whole thing was a consequence of not doing his assignment on Friday.

But Lord, you would hope teachers would have some wisdom when dealing with the kids.

The teacher overreacted, to be sure, but was not amiss in lowering the boom on the child. We learned at a very early time in school – and I’m sure that you did, too – “don’t take things from the teacher’s desk without permission”. That was a big thing when we were kids.

So you have an old-school (pardon the pun) teacher who punished the child perhaps too severely if he didn’t know that what he did was forbidden. She also overreacted in an inappropriate way if she made him erase the words he was attempting to copy, even if belatedly. That would be like my punishing the dog for coming in after ignoring my calls to come in for a long time. It’s irrational punishment.

However, I also cannot even imagine having the conversation about “stealing from the teacher’s desk” as a parent – or any adult, in fact – without at least finding out, “What was stolen? What were the circumstances?” Stealing money or possessions from inside a closed drawer is a much greater offense than taking last week’s assignment from the top of the desk to copy at the child’s desk. How that didn’t come to light in the initial announcement and discussion is simply beyond me.

I think that all of you need to get off your god-damned high horses and calm down and think of the child here. If you lay into the teacher and Aden’s mother lays into the teacher and Aden’s stepmother lays into the teacher, then Aden is going to have a very, very bad year at school this year.

I agree @CWOTUS. It needed to be addressed, but fairly.

Also, tie that in with her ridiculous reason for giving him a 0 on a math problem that he got correctly, and, IMO, you have a teacher who is clueless about handling the grade she’s been assigned to.

As to why they didn’t ask, I don’t know. Maybe the twins were screaming in the truck. Maybe the teacher said it then rushed off. I don’t know.

Nobody “laid into” her. Please read the thread carefully to see how it was handled. NOBODY advocated screaming at the teacher. READ the details. She didn’t have a thousand people screaming at her. His mother and father went into the classroom together to address it. I know my daughter wasn’t screaming because she’s rational.

How Quentin handled it is unknown. He tends to react more like you @CWOTUS: You yelling that we need to “to get off your god-damned high horses and calm down…” in a simple discussion tells me you probably aren’t so good at addressing situations calmly yourself.

You should read the response. I said “if you lay into…” etc. Implied future tense. Furthermore, though my language was admittedly strong, I wasn’t “yelling” at all. You’re the one who seems to have been overreacting to the teacher’s overreaction and inappropriate punishment.

Heaven help that kid.

No one overreacted except you @CWOTUS, and perhaps his father, but don’t know that for sure, or in what way. It wasn’t in front of Aden. They came to a decision together, a calm, rational one.

@rojo! Where’d ya go jo? Lost in Fluther purgatory!”

I don’t think the teacher’s actions were reasonable. That was an assignment list. She did not ask Aden why he had taken it (to copy it down).

She does sound like a bully. I agree with letting a little time pass, and then pulling him out of the class.

Your daughter leaves babies in the vehicle while she goes into the school?

@marinelife exactly. Aden is a good kid. If she had simply stressed that “We don’t take things off of my desk without permission,” that would have solved that problem. At that point, perhaps hold him back at recess and give him that opportunity to write down the words. That’s a logical consequence.

This school is set up so that the doors to each room also open to the outside @jca. So she would have been, maybe 10 feet away from the kids standing halfway between them and the door. Sorry…if you don’ t know that it sounds odd, doesn’t it!

@Dutchess_III: I have seen schools in California set up that way, so now I understand.

I know when I had my baby, and worked in CPS at the time, my coworkers in CPS cautioned me to never ever leave my daughter alone in the car, even if I was going in to a gas station to pay and could see the car the whole time. I had a client who had a CPS report because she left her kids (2 preschoolers and a baby) in the car while she was in Dunkin Donuts, on line where she could see them the entire time. I had a mom (client) who had CPS called on her because she ran into the doctor’s office with the baby in the car. She said she just had to pick up something or drop something off, but still, it was a report that CPS took (they have the option of taking it or not, depending on whether the circumstances are valid). I live in NYS. Maybe it’s different here. I was taught (regarding my own child) “better safe than sorry.”

Oh, I agree. I always locked the doors if I had to run inside some place for a second, even if I could see the car from where ever I was.

However, she does have 8 month old twins so that presents unfortunate logistical problems sometimes. Won’t be long, though, when she can get one out and tell her to go stand on the grass while she gets her brother out.

Edit.

If the kid stayed in the room with the list, you can’t call it “stealing.” Sounds like a not very good teacher reacting inappropriately.

@Dutchess_III: Just caution her, because if there ever is a CPS report, “There were two of them and it was too much trouble to take them out” would not be justification for a situation where CPS might consider them unsafe.

Yes @Sunny2 and it’s not like he tried to hide it, either. Overall I’m thinking she just isn’t a good teacher.

I guess in the last week Aden has been complaining that he doesn’t like school any more. :( That is SO sad to me.

@jca It’s not so much as “trouble” as pretty much an impossibility! You can NOT undo a car seat with one hand and hang on to a baby with the other. Juggling the second kid to get him out of the car seat one handedly could be a little dangerous, too.

Technically, I guess it’s stealing, such as borrowing someone’s car and forgetting to ask them, but this is silly.

I don’t know if the boy intended to return the test, but I’m guessing he did. I think the teacher is wound a bit too tightly to properly teach this boy. Please tell your daughter ask to have him assigned to another teacher.

@Dutchess_III: I’m just bringing up a point. (Playing Devil’s Advocate) CPS would say “then you should bring someone with you” or “then you should have someone else watch them at home” or “you should call into the school to have someone come out and assist you.” Just 3 possibilities for what they could say and would say. I did that for about 12 years and so I’ve heard it all, and we consider nothing justifies leaving a child unsafe.

She’s going to give it some time, then probably do just that @snowberry. I mean, you take that in conjunction with giving him a 0 on a math assignment, when the math is CORRECT tells me she shouldn’t be teaching at this level. Maybe at a higher level where ridiculous expectations won’t affect a kid and their love of school so much. Maybe at the middle school level where’d they’d only have to deal with her an hour out of the day and where students are more able to defend themselves.

Thanks @jca. I’ll check with SRS to see if they can have someone on call to come to her house every time she needs to run to the store, or pick up kids from school, or needs to get the babies out of the truck and into the house and vise versa.
Good thing she didn’t have triplets.

@Dutchess_III: Just telling you what could happen. It’s good to know, actually. SRS would not be providing anybody, btw, your daughter would be expected to. (I know you were being sarcastic, anyway.) We had a moms with multiple kids, and they just had to do whatever they had to in order to make things work. Again, being overwhelmed does not justify leaving children in harm’s way.

It’s not a question of being overwhelmed! It’s not a question of inconvenience! It’s physically impossible to get an infant out of a car seat using one hand!

When you say moms with “multiple kids,” I assume you’re talking about different ages. Hell, she has 4 kids. The older ones are 8 and 10. They’re a huge help to her.

@Dutchess_III: That’s why they would say that she should get someone else to help, or leave the kids with someone while she goes to get the other one(s) from school. Again, “I couldn’t do it” or “it was impossible” would not cut it as an excuse.

Oh well. That’s life.

Making the poor kid erase his own work and repeat some mantra seems like the doing of a lunatic teacher. If I were you guys, I’d be eager to move him to another class. I’d also probably discuss this incident with the Principal and get his/her take on things.

As far as your daughter not being able to handle two kids in car seats plus others, what would she do if there were an emergency and she had to get the kids out of the car quickly?

They will probably take the child out of the class @MagicalMystery.

The two kids in question 8 month old twins.

When the other two kids are with her, as I said, it’s actually much easier for her. She hands one of them off to her 10 year old.

Why is it so hard to understand that it is almost impossible to unbuckle a car seat with one hand and even if she could do it, it is inherently dangerous to try and wrestle a kid OUT of that car seat with only one hand and another kid on your hip!? At that age, 8 months, they can’t really help her by crawling up.

If the other kids aren’t with her she has to take one kid out at a time. That will change fairly soon when they get old enough to understand and stay in one place for a minute, near the car, and not move while she gets the other one out.

If there were an emergency there is no telling what she could do. In a panic she probably COULD unbuckle the seat with one hand and wrestle the kid out of the seat with other other kid on her hip! Just grab him by the arm and haul him out and run away with him dangling from her hand! No time to get him comfortable.

I would tell the teacher that I agree my child needs to understand that he cannot remove something from someone else’s desk without asking, but that I find her (the teacher’s) punishment overly punitive. Calling that stealing is outrageous to me. I would tell my child that he must ask before he takes something that is not his. If he seems to understand and has learned why he was wrong; I would give him a big smile, tell him I am not angry, and give him a big hug.

I mean really, if she had just told him he must ask next time, it probably would have been enough. She doesn’t need to make the kid feel like crap.

I agree @JLeslie. She humiliated him. That is just WRONG. If she had kept him in at recess and taken that opportunity to then give him the list and spend his recess copying the words, that would have been sufficient underscore, IMO.

Tough call…she was too harsh, no doubt, but in my line of work we have to enforce clear boundaries about touching other people’s stuff (staff or students), because we do have students who have stolen phones before.

@yankeetooter I’m a teacher too. I know. I still say that yes, there should have been consequences for taking the spelling list, but humiliation shouldn’t be part of that. She made him miss recess to just sit at his desk. She could have at least given him that time to copy his spelling words, with her permission. I don’t think he ever did get to copy his spelling words.

Oh, I agree. I’m afraid I only quickly skimmed the above before answering…(sheepishly)

@Dutchess_III: I do understand. I am saying from a Child Protective Services point of view, it’s never ever ok to leave children alone in a car, even if you can see them from a window or gas station or Dunkin Donuts or whatever, even if just for one minute (as was told to me and as I experienced from dealing with many Child Protective reports on this very type of situation). Period. I am saying that if CPS got involved, they’d give you some of the alternatives outlined by me above. Whether you agree with it is not the point, and if someone wanted to risk their children by doing this is up to them.

I would approach the situation delicately. Motherly instinct tells me to march in that school and demand a conversation with that idiot teacher. But logic tells me that if I lose my temper, the teacher could very well make my child’s school year miserable. I remember being in 3rd grade and having an awful teacher. She was physically abusive to kids. The last straw was when she roughly grabbed my face with her hand and squeezed it while scolding me in front of the class. My parents had complained numerous times before this incident with no results. After this happened, they demanded that I have my teacher switched. So if push comes to shove and your daughter continues to see problems from this teacher, take action. Request a new teacher. For now I would sit down and have a calm and respectful discussion to clear the air. Just remember if the teacher senses any attitude or feels threatened by your daughter, she could potentially make her son’s life hell. For the kid’s sake, hold back. Good luck! I know how protective you want to be in this type of situation :(

Screw CPS! The ones I dealt with were total low lifes, and very very corrupt.

I think the child should not have taken anything from the teacher’s desk without asking. That really is common sense and common courtesy, even for a third grader. I think retrieving the list from the child and explaining that touching things on the teacher’s desk is not OK would have been enough. No need to frighten the kid. If he was anything like I was at that age, a stern look from a teacher could make me cry.

@MollyMcGuire has said it all from my perspective, regarding the teacher.

Besides that, though, how can one not ask for more details, if one’s child is accused of theft? dumbfounded

@MollyMcGuire We all agree that he shouldn’t have taken the list.

@whitenoise Why they didn’t ask has been addressed too, and the answer is, “I don’t know.” You would think, instinctively, that would be something you’d ask immediately. I’ll have to find out. Could be the teacher just made the comment then rushed away before they could ask, because giving the details would make her look like a fool.

@snowberry Yeah, I got to deal with CPS once. The case worker was a male, about my age. My daughter was 16 at the time. He and I were discussing piercings and tattoos vs coloring hair. His opinion was that coloring hair vivid colors was a sign of a disturbed teen, whereas piercing and tattoos were sexy. He specifically mention belly button piercings as being sexy. I was dumbfounded. Tattoos, and to a certain extent, piercing are permanent. Hair coloring is temporary.
We talked (disagreed) about it some, then he made a huge pass at me, in my house, then begged me not to tell his boss.

I asked…yes, the teacher just said, accusingly, “Aden stole something from my desk!” and turned away tending to other kids, then walked away before they could question her more.

It was the tone of voice more than anything. It didn’t matter what, it was the concept that he had “stolen” from her, plus they didn’t get a chance to ask.

Gawd, I am so upset she used the word stolen. The kid did not even know to try to hide it, he was trying to do the right thing by taking the paper. It so sucks when we try to do what we think is right and get scolded for it. Why try? It can be paralyzing or make people apathetic to always feel like any good we try to do just gets us in trouble. Hopefully, it doesn’t have any lasting effects and he let’s the incident go. It reminds me of @whitenoise‘s antipunishment Q. Your grandson just needed to be guided, not punished.

Yes @JLeslie. What you said! All she had to say was “Do NOT take ANYTHING off of my desk,” and perhaps kept him in at recess so he could copy the words. What she did was bullying, pure and simple.

If he had “known” to hide it, then he would have known he was doing something wrong. But he didn’t.

I do NOT like the teacher. They’ll probably put him in the other class.

@JLeslie
It made me think of that as well, but I didn’t want to bark up the same tree all the time.

I just don’t understand how someone can be so angry at an 8 year old. It comes across as anger to that little boy I think. I feel like some adults do not remember a second of their childhood. Or, they were treated extremely harshly themselves and just think it is normal, and maybe have blocked out how it made them feel. If this child was a constant problem I might understand feeling like he needs harsher correction. Meaning gentle guidance does not seem to be working. I think @Dutchess_III would have said if that was the case though.

I would have a horrible time of it if my kids were out of control, because generally I look at children and just think they are beautiful and perfect and have good intensions, just don’t know yet. Don’t know all of society’s expectations yet. I know that is idealistic, and of course I have dealt with kids that are a total pain. But, that has been extremely rare in my experience.

Oh, it would have worked @JLeslie.

You know, 2nd, 3rd, 4th grades can be extremely frustrating. It takes a special kind of teacher to keep it all together. She is not that teacher. That’s why I think she should transfer to, say, the middle school.

Yeah, she should not be with little kids. Most kids that young really want to please adults around them. It doesn’t take much for them to feel badly if an adult dissaproves of their behavior.

That’s exactly right @JLeslie. I just feel so sorry for him, trying to do the right thing then, WHAM. It really pisses me off!