Which one is it, are people supporting the hard line Republicans, or are Americans becoming dissuaded away from the Republicans?

I think the hardline Republicans are very unpopular now but whether people will remember by the election is a question. I have also heard “throw them all out” which seems a bit unfair.

Unfortunately, the gerrymandering of districts so that they are solidly Repub may make it hard.

The poll numbers are rejecting the Republican approach by a wide margin.

The Republicans may pay a price for this intransigence in the midterm elections, or something the Democrats do between now and then may shift the balance back toward the center again.

First sentence seems to be the fact of the matter, but the second sentence is pure speculation because we are talking about politics.

I expect the latter.

I was just hearing that, as @janbb mentioned, the hard line Republicans raising hell now are all in very secure districts. This kind of shenanigans will only endear them further to their constituencies.

Most “republicans” who are ordinary citizens like me are not “hard-liners” we are right leaning conservatives. We think this shit is outrageous too. The outliers get all of the attention on both sides for whatever reason now. The far left approach is pretty unpopular right now also. Most folks all want some reasonable compromise regardless of their politics.

I would like to believe that at least some of the Tea Party candidates lose their party nomination to more centrist candidates. The Tea Party has not been around long enough for its members to build up seniority in Congress. While it is unlikely that they will be seriously challenged by Democrats, it is at least conceivable that they could lose out to more moderate Republicans.

The Republican party has become a regional party. It is the dominant political force solidly in the states of the former Confederacy, and in low population states scattered here and there, it can win electoral victory. What Republicans and others outside the South are discovering is that the priorities of Southern Repubilcans are not the priorities of Republicans outside the South. Moreover, they have hated the Federal Government since before the civil war, and are not put off with the idea of destroying it.

So Republicans outside of the Old Confederacy are asking themselves if they are going to stay in that party or do something else. The truth is that Republican party is not going to win Presidential Elections or Senate Elections outside of the Confederacy, and they will lose House seats the further we move from 2010 when we last drew districts.

”China warns US to ‘stop manufacturing crises’ and raise debt ceiling. China criticizes ‘mind-boggling political infighting’ over issue of raising America’s $16.7 trillion debt ceiling.”
~The Telegraph, UK.

Well, there are some sensible people out there, anyway. Or maybe, like our federal workers, they’d just like to get paid.

I expect the latter just like @ragingloli. I hope we are wrong. I think we have at least one more Presidential cycle before we see a real change in the republican party. If they win the next Presidential election they will hold on to their right wingedness another 20+ years probably.

@ARE_you_kidding_me The far left approach. I see why you selected your user name. What far left approach? When’s the last time socialists hijacked the US government and shut it down till they could have everything they wanted. I thought I as old, but I flat missed that memorable moment.

Such false equivalence fallacies are part of why a very vocal minority of a minority are able to summon the political will to wreak havoc in government—an action which bears no resemblance to the meaning of the word, “conservative.”

If the mid-term elections were held today, all the polls show that Nancy Pelosi would regain the Speaker’s gavel. The Republican Party brand has been deeply damaged, just exactly like it was back when they pulled the same shenanigans in 1995 and 1996 and lost control of the House thanks to it.

@ETpro The left are not negotiating either, it’s a two way street. Either side could end this at any time. I’d consider parts of an otherwise good healthcare bill far left in approach, like being taxed for something you are not participating in. It never should have passed and it has already had negative direct consequences to my bottom line. I’m also simply stating that the public is not as polarized as discourse on tv would have you believe or politicians in office behave. I also get pretty tired of your relentless trolling, this is why people can’t have honest political discussions anymore.

@ARE_you_kidding_me – The day to day operation of an administration should not be linked to negotiations about controversial issues such as health insurance (which isn’t a controversial issue, by the way, in any of the world’s other developed nations, where all human life is considered sacred and every human is given the right not to end up in a graveyard prematurely – shame on all Tea Party Republicans!).

@mattbrowne Oh I agree 100% I can’t argue with that at all. The tea party started as an honest movement I don’t know what happened but it’s quite extreme now and shameful. We need healthcare reform, I can’t say I agree with the current form that was passed into law but I can’t see how shutting down the gov’t to stop it is helping anything. Capitol hill is like a daycare center.

I think a more responsible approach would be to demand a budget with spending cuts as part of an overall plan to reduce the $2T/year deficit and eventually tackle the $17 trillion dollar debt load.

The ACA is a major contributor to that but I think the big picture is that we need a real budget and a fiscally sane one not a continuing CR.

The day to day operating expenses of the gov’t most certainly can be questioned and should be. In the real world we are always challenged to do our job for less. Gov’t should not be exempted from that.

Also, there are no constitutional “rights” which require you to take something from another by force. Those would be called entitlements. Rights are individual and require nothing from your neighbor other than to be left alone.

You may consider some things very important and therefore think they should be an entitlement, like social security and the ACA, but they are not rights as defined by the constitution.

One change could just about take care of the deficit: allowing federal agencies to carry money over at the end of the fiscal year. Since they can’t any money they have must either be spent or returned. Most spend all they can right at the end to avoid having their operating budgets cut the next year when they may actually need it. The national debt is going to be here for a while regardless of what we do, unless we default on the 17th. What a mess for us that would be. Both parties have spent the taxpayers money in obscene amounts. This administration tops the list so far but to be fair the next will probably be worse just based on the overall trend in the past couple of decades.

Re: gov’t I think we spend way too much for what we get. Some also think that the ACA is fiscal insanity and I agree with them. The financial justification for the bill was fraudulent (i.e. 10 years of revenue balanced against 7 years of benefits).Its all fun until someone has to pay for it.

Therefore I find it kind of humorous that those who oppose the ACA or who question spending at our current IMO insane rate in general are “hard liners”. Doing silly stuff like spending extra $$‘s to close the WW II memorial seems more hard line and insane to me.

I think the very short debt limit compromise is good but there has to be some willingness to truly negotiate (and just saying unconditional CR and debt increases is not reasonable.)

Yeah, it’s hilarious when you even hint something conservative and you’re labeled extreme right-wing kook by the left leaners. Many are intolerant in that way.

“Yeah, it’s hilarious when you even hint something liberal and you’re labeled extreme left-wing communist by the right leaners. Many are intolerant in that way.”
There, fixed that for you.

@ragingloli generally true except on fluther.

The hardliners are supporting the shutdown, as they did beforehand. The other, normal people of both parties see a danger in it continuing. How much danger? That depends on how informed they are or how much understanding they have of economics.

BTW another interesting item I read this week is how pissed off the Republican bankrollers are with this mess. Remember, most of them need a stable, progressive business environment to make their money and this is threatening that. Admittedly they are the ones who are used to getting their way and part of it is that they are pissed that they are no longer the ones holding the reins but then again, it is their livelihood that is threatened. There is talk of them withdrawing financial support from Republicans unless they get their way.
I have two questions about this; first are the Tea-party backers in this group? And second, will it degenerate into a 1% on 1% fight for control and is that what this entire upcoming Supreme Court fight all about?

”...and part of it is that they are pissed that they are no longer the ones holding the reins but then again, it is their livelihood that is threatened. There is talk of them withdrawing financial support from Republicans…”

Give me a break. Who do you think the people we vote into office work for? The guys without next year’s campaign financing? The schmoes without the ability to appoint former public servants to extremely well-compensated, no-show positions on corporate boards? We mere constituents without the ability to hire them as glad-handing lobbyists after their years of bonded servitude are complete? Who, us?

Trust me, @rojo, Congress’ labyrinthine ingenuity to pad their futures at our expense is matched only by their masters’ libidinous pursuit of power and subjugation of this democracy. Republicans serve the “bankrollers” well and anything you are led to believe to the contrary is just another entertaining subplot in this lime-lit farce to make them out as victims of their masters in order to soften growing public anger. About to lose support? How can you buy that shit?

@Espiritus_Corvus You have two factions fighting for control now. The entrenched, established group used to saying jump and seeing it happen and a new group that has well financed their Tea Party congressmen through organizations such as Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks in order to gain power. The TPers do not feel beholding to those that provides funding to groups that fund the RNC. To be sure, they are all bought and paid for, the only difference is who opens which purse strings. I believe you are right, they may be threats meant to intimidate the mainstream Republicans into getting the others in line but if it doesn’t work are they going to follow through with their threats?

@ARE_you_kidding_me Obama actually tried to compromise. In his first term, he agreed to Republican demands before negotiation even began, and they rejected their own proposal, wanting more. He was slow on the uptake, but finally figured out the game. It goes thus:

GOP: Can I blow up the US economy?

Obama: No.

GOP: Can I just blow up Social Security and Medicare?

Obama: No.

GOP: You won’t negotiate.

@ETpro That’s hardly fair when it’s obvious that both sides are doing their best work to implode the economy. Too big to fail… obamacare capping companies at 50 employees… a stimulus plan that consisted of gov’t spending borrowed money on toys for itself and temporary work rather than place those funds in the hands of Americans. Anyone with any sense should see that the partisan game has enabled and encourage this behavior. It’s time to clear the slate and vote all of them out.

In NC the Republicans took the majority and have instituted a lot of changes. Let’s see how they work out and see if NC citizens continue to support their approach. (As a progressive I am appalled by much of what I’ve seen so far, but time will bring more clarity.)

@ARE_you_kidding_me That’s not obvious to me, and I pay a great deal of attention to such issues. If you have proof, I’d love to see it.

@ETpro, what do you need proof of? What I stated was fact.

@ARE_you_kidding_me Oh, it that’s how it works then I will just state that what you stated as fact is now no longer so. It is the opposite. And don’t ask for any proof. It’s anti-factual because I said it is.