Will my relationship last after girlfriends celibacy?

It doesn’t sound promising, if I’m honest. When I deconverted, it damn near ruined my relationship. If we hadn’t already been married with a newborn, it might not have worked out.

In any serious long term relationship, there are some big things that you should be in sync on. Marriage – yes or no, kids – yes or no, sex – yes, no, and acceptable boundaries.

At this point, the ball is in your court. She has made her choice to place her god in a place of importance, and is asking you to accept that. It is up to you to decide whether that is something you are ok with.

I also would like to add that it sort of reads like you see this religious thing as a fad that you hope she grows out of. As a former Christian, let me assure you that the wedding night is the beginning of religious interference in your life, not the end.

You might have bigger problems than her new virgin ways. If she is going to go all born again on you she might not tolerate your atheism well. I think it depends on how religious she becomes and stays. As long as she respects your beliefs as much as you seem to respect hers it can work.

I’m going to assume you both are relatively young, did you think you were going to marry her? Then you have to think about children to. Is she going to be ok with their dad being an atheist? Her church might be teaching her that you are going straight to hell, I would hate to date someone who believed that about me, and I would not want my children raised with that. But, it depends on the church, some Christian churches are more fanatical than others.

Since this is new, give it some time, she might get tired of it.

I agree with @Seek_Kolinahr in that it sounds like you think you are waiting for your girlfriend to eventually give up god and come back to you. That sounds like a blueprint for failure to me – partly because you have no guarantee that it will happen, and partly because it means you don’t truly respect her choice. I’m an atheist, so I can understand that point of view – but it’s not a good sign if one partner in a relationship doesn’t take the other’s beliefs seriously.

And… I think the sex is actually a side issue. Evidently, you still want to be with her, even if you can’t have sex again yet.

If she wants to make a serious commitment to the christian God, which it sounds like she is already doing, you are going to have to come to terms with the idea that you may not be #1 in her life any longer. And now that she has made that her #1 choice she may choose to be more faithful with Him more of the time like now with begining to be celibate from which she was not before, and that can shake the confidence of anyone in a relationship because the partner is being very faithful to what seems to be a non existent entity. This can wreak havoc in relationships like yours because of course you are not a follower.

Depending on how deep she gets into a religion it can take over her life and then possibly yours too.

It also didn’t really sound fair at first that you didn’t respect her choice about not having sex, that seemed greedy to me, because I can think of many other reasons as to why maybe you may not have sex with her other than religion and would you leave her because of those too? If she was sick? If she just had your baby? That part I don’t understand.

It’s sounds like you have a great connection but at the same time faith is a big part in a relationship and sometimes couples have to be on the same page and if not they have to respect each others beliefs, so whether she ends up believing forever or not I think you are going to have to respect her if you want this to last or you might just want to move on.

At first, sex shouldn’t be the determining factor of the destiny of your relatioship. It seems like your dis-engagement from having sex due to the girl’s new knowledge on religion has not yet ruined the relatioship. As Seek_Kolinahr has said, the ball is in your court.

The girl seem to love you and just waiting for the right moment when she will begin being intimate to you. But there seem to be disapproval from your side though reflecting your respect for her decisions. The reason why you are confused is that you have not fully discussed the future of the relationship in its current state of sex after marriage due to the just descovered truths.
So to be certain whether it lasts, you should learn more of the conditions attached to the just found truths so that you will make informed decisions on whether you will be compatible with the standards of the Christian religion. My view is that she loves you, and the fact is as much as she loves you she will want you on her side.

Yeah, that’s probably going to be a problem. Either you’ll convert or she’ll find another hottie that’s her religion so she doesn’t feel bad about herself, or this is a phase for her (especially if she’s a rule follower.)

It also sounds like you’re just concerned about having sex cut off and that’s kind of selfish, try thinking about her and what’s good for her, otherwise you’re not worthy to be a boyfriend anyway.

He’s not a bad boyfriend for wanting sex.

The bathroom isn’t the only reason I live in my house. I would still be really mad if you took it away from me.

Who said he was a “bad” boyfriend?

Unfortunately the bathroom in his place is out of order, but I’m sure he can relieve himself out back. Or use that plastic apple juice container in the recycle bin!

Ok people let’s not get our panties tied in a bunch :-/ lol.

If I had to pee and the
“bathroom” was out of order I certainly would not get angry or have temper tantrums and stress myself out and try to restrain myself until I burst all over my new beautiful jeans, thanx.

Actually I have been there and it’s not fun I know, but my husband happened to be sick and sometimes you just have to take care of things yourself.

Seems like there is no point in getting angry because it’s just extra added stress that anyone doesn’t probably need.

So here’s a saying I’ve learned out here from fellow jellies, ”if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.”

Sexual codependency is awesome isn’t it?

Sickness it’s totally different from a choice to abstain because of a new lifestyle choice. I mean, they’ve been together four years. It’s not like they slept together once before she put a lid on it. Many marriages don’t last four years.

Personally I think it’s only different if someone chooses to look at it differently.

Sometimes things in a “marriage” change, but afaik this couple isn’t married, which may be a good thing.

Marriages today don’t last for many reasons personally that I think are because it is easier and less stressful for couples to give up than to work for it and work through it and work out the problems, IMHO it’s largely based due to the society we live in, which is all about having everything right now, that includes marriage, sex, money, objects, status, etc.

We’ve been taught this and now have learned that the idea is much easier than possibly being miserable.

But one thing that no one fails to mention is that marriage and long term relationships are hard work and there is going to be ups and downs and maybe just maybe your partner may decide to be spiritual when you yourself are otherwise not, making the relationship a little more stressful and maybe even miserable.

I’m a vegan and I can tell you one thing, my husband would never ever of gotten mad or he never would have left me because I am a very picky eater. It’s called respect. That’s the part I don’t get, the way I see it, this situation is not exactly about sex, to me it seems there are more layers to it than just sex, 4 yrs is a long time to quit just because your horny.

The relationship will last if this guy wants it to last, but judging by his first temper tantrum, I just don’t know, but if sex is that important to him then maybe it won’t work out unless they get married very soon, because their relationship, according to his girlfriend, who is now more faithful to the christian God, is not just about sex anymore, so now I guess he (not me) has to decide whats more important to him, his girlfriend or the sex he was having with her.

I know couples who have and now don’t even sleep together sexually anymore and are still together. I have one friend who her and her husband have not slept together in over 5 yrs, they get along great.

Which, going back to my first answer, is fine if everyone is on the same page and happy about it.

The op isn’t on the Jesus wagon and apparently doesn’t plan to be, so his girlfriend is basically punishing him because of her newfound conviction.

And it’s not just sex, as you well know. If she’s going to be convicted enough to risk a four year relationship for the sake of a vague notion of biblical sin, what happens after the wedding if he does stick it out?

Well, honey, now that we’re married you have to go to church too, so you can be the spiritual head of our household!

No you can’t go out to the bar with your friends, we’re hosting the young couple’s Home Bible Study tonight!

I really think we should home school our children so they don’t make friends with worldly kids who teach them about drugs, sex, and evolution.

Oh, I got rid of your heavy metal T-shirt collection. I could feel the demons coming from the dirty words and violent, blasphemous pictures

I could go on…

@KaY_Jelly I think one of the biggest mistakes ever when it comes to marriage is getting married to be able to have sex. I have seen a lot of divorces from that one. It is one of my biggest gripes with the super religious. It is all too often the cause of extremely young people marrying. I don’t know how old the OP is. Even if they are well into their 20’s, getting married to have sex when he otherwise would not have married her tells you what?

Don’t get me wrong, if the girlfriend has decided to give up sex until marriage, then that’s the final world, I am not saying she should change her mind, she should do whatever she is comfortable with, but getting married to do it again I would never support.

@Seek_Kolinahr Oh I’m definitely not saying that if she continues down the religious highway that that won’t happen, I actually think I did say “Depending on how deep she gets into a religion it can take over her life and then possibly yours too.”

The punishment part, is where we don’t agree. To me sex is a bonus to begin with and he should be grateful that he was even allowed to have sex with her in the first place. And she is not a toy.

Really think about this. It sounds like you are just basically saying that a partner is a sex slaves for their partner..not ok in my book, like if women or men all around the world started saying no to their other half then they would be wrong for punishing them. Well being a survivor of rape I’ve gotta say sorry but that’s seems to be sending the wrong message. :/

His parts still work. I’m sure he feels humility that his partner is now more faithful to an invisible God than to him where she used to be faithful to him and they probably need to talk about that.

If she stays faithful to the Christian God like it sounds she has, then I think he does have a few choices he could make.

One is to convert with her which may or may not work but it has happened. Or try to convert her to his atheism which never works well.

The other is to marry her (which I was saying only in a lighthearted fashion @JLeslie) ;) because you are correct if he did marry her well that proves what the whole marriage is based on.

He could fight and throw temper tantrums to get what he wants but that didn’t do anything the first time because she’s obviously still faithful to Christ hence the question.

Of course he could just deal with his sexual tension on his own, not always as fun but hey many marriages have rough patches with this happening and if we all just leave because no sex is a punishment well then we are all going to be pretty unhappy trying to please our partners even when maybe we don’t feel like it.

And he could just leave.

I see lots of options here, they aren’t all in his favor really that’s a problem
which is maybe why I think you see it as a punishment, and many reasons why I think its not really about the sex, but tbh he is losing his girlfriend to a God which is hard competition.

I have to agree with @Seek_Kolinahr on those other changes that @thebluewaffle may not know about, it’s not just one aspect of your life if you’re ‘really into it’, it’s pretty much every aspect of your life to a degree.

@KaY_Jelly “tbh he is losing his girlfriend to a God which is hard competition.”
Exactly. :)

@KaY_Jelly My own marriage has had long sexless spells because of my health problems, and it is worse for me than my husband. He is more accepting, while I hate it and have all sorts of emotions that come with it. But choosing to be celibate is a little different. However, I do agree it is a respect issue. Not so much respect for the choice of celibacy, but this will also be, and more importantly, a test of respect for religious beliefs issues. At the same time, if the OP is quite young, I do have some understanding about wanting to be able to have sex all the time with someone you have been dating for years and have enjoyed a healthy sex life with. When I was a teenager I had sex almost every day with my boyfriend. It was great. I think if I had stopped having sex he would have left, I think most young men would. Even good young men who treat their girlfriend’s well and really do care about them.

@JLeslie I understand and can totally empathise with you.

On the other hand if us and our children are acting like this than maybe our parents missed something therefore us as parents are missing out on teaching our children that something which could alter the possibilities of less marriages failing in the future.

I am probably biased though.

@KaY_Jelly I have no idea what you are talking about. Can you clarify?

@JLeslie I only mean that because for a long time now I have been heteroromantic asexual, so I think my opinion may be biased. Plus I’m a Christian. But I’m really trying not to let those things get in the way.

@KaY_Jelly That tells me what perspective you are coming from, not what you mean. You said maybe our parents missed something. Missed what? More marriages break up now because women can earn a living. It isn’t the only reason, but that is a biggy. In years past women couldn’t keep a roof over their heads without their husbands, or the roof was in a much lower economic neighborhood. Their whole world changed drastically if they left. Most people I know who are divorced did try to work on their marriage, dreaded and worried what it would do to their children, stayed way beyond when they emotionally were already finished, they did hope things would turn around. Very few people easily get divorced, it is usually very very difficult for everyone involved.

I do think there are some people who don’t take the committment of marriage being forever as seriously as others, and leave too fast, but I believe that to be a small percentage of people.

I don’t think being a virgin has anything to do with marriages not staying together. Possibly a very promiscuous attitude does, but even that I am not sure about. But, having sex before marriage does not equate to promiscuity in my book.

As far as religion, I know plenty of Christians who are divorced. I also know plenty of Christians where the wife stays around when they are miserable. I also know Christian couples who have beautiful relationships. Just like all other faiths, Christians come in all shapes and sizes. Interreligious relationships and marriage are a whole different thing. It can certainly make things more complicated, especially if there will be children.

I said “something” because I actually didn’t know what to call it at that time. But you have actually expanded on it much more so I can clarify it for you ty! :)
Anyhow it became clear for me after I read all those reasons you gave which for me touched on the something I was talking about.

And so what I meant was that maybe we haven’t been taught how to properly deal with the complications arising from interpersonal relationships and so we aren’t teaching our children properly and of course like you said ”Very few people easily get divorced” which only adds extra layers to an already stressful society which you have pointed out.

It is true what you said that women support themselves now so it’s much more easier for them to be independent, but I believe it has gone somewhat past that because now teenage pregnancy has skyrocketed and usually teen mothers are not the soul providers of their children as they fall back into their parents arms who usually provide at least some of the funds that end up looking after their children’s children.
Then you add all of the stress plus our daily fast paced, gotta have it now, technical lifestyle and somewhere along the line we forget to teach our kids all the rules on how to behave properly so there are bound to some flaws.

I hope that makes sense because I’ve been falling asleep for the past hour lol.

Teen pregnancy is at a historic low, actually. Quite the opposite of ‘skyrocketing’

http://m.nbcnews.com/health/teen-birth-rate-hits-historic-low-officials-say-8C11086339

@KaY_Jelly I have to agree with you that adults are not teaching children good relationship skills, usually because they suck at it themselves. I have said for a long time I think there should be a high school class for relationships and communication that would include not only a focus on SO relationships, but family, friends, work, etc.

Personally, I think parents should support their pregnant teens to make sure the teen stays on a good track. Assuming my daughter made a mistake as teens do, and overall is a hard working, ambitious, good person, I would give up a few years to make sure she gets her education and stays on her path. I would rally around her and give her as much support as possible. If you are poor that is harder to do. If she got pregnant on purpose with some stupid fantasy in her mind or because her friends are all getting pregnant (I see this all the time) then I would be furious! But, probably still help her in the same way. I would watch her take that pill every day though. Every day in front of me or she gets thrown out with nothing. She cannot get pregnant twice in my home. Almost all the girls I know who had babies as teens were or are Christians. Raised in religious homes. I only bring it up because I hope you don’t think Christianity is preventing teen pregnancy? If anything it feels the opposite to me, but I have no idea the real statistics.

That whole celibacy gig I think leaves girls unprepared for when they, oops, go all the way and weren’t expecting to, or were in denial that they would do it. I actually support reinforcing to teens that sex is not like holding hands. That they should have sex only with someone who is in a loving relationship with them and be safe about it. I would tell teens sex is for adults, I would never say sex is only for marriage.

I saw a show recently where the teen had a baby and when asked if she knew about the pill, she said that all her friends told her it would make her fat so she didn’t want to take it. So she got pregnant instead. Teenage logic.

@JLeslie No I do not think Christianity prevents teenage pregnancy.

My daughter was on the pill as soon as she started dating. She is very responsible. I also explained to her all about other precautions and that she should make sure she is really ready because once it’s done you can’t take it back. She has been with her only boyfriend for 2yrs now.

I did not look up the facts for teenage births so thanks for clearing that up. I’m not right about everything and I’m certainly not ever going to claim to be, I’m just giving my opinion “skyrocket” was the wrong choice of word probably due to the fact I was half asleep but teenage pregnancy does happen and usually that burden falls upon the parents of the pregnant teen, that was really my point. But thanks for pointing out the facts.

Hey all, thanks for the responses, been working away so had no time to reply.
Its isn’t just about the sex, I’m more worried about the lost of intimacy and falling into the dreaded friend zone!
I agree I had a slight temper tantrum, but her behaviour was no gradual turn to Christianity, it just seemed to explode onto the scene.
My main concern was that in Corinthians, it states along the lines of Christians basically shouldn’t marry unbelievers, and our intention has definitely been marraige, both discussed and are pretty certain. My problem was if she was to become Christian she cannot follow one ‘rule’ (celebacy) and not follow another (marrying me) this was where I was failing to understand the religion.

In short, I love this woman and do intend on staying with her. But staying firmly athiest of course.
I have agreed to go church with her a couple of times, just to show I do respect what she believes.

Thanks all for the reaponses

@thebluewaffle If you love her and intend on staying with her, you need to grow together so you don’t grow apart. Religion can affect a LOT of thing’s in your life, but it also may just be a stage for her, something she wants to explore.

Lots of Christians pick and choose the rules they follow and a lot of younger people may choose to sleep with a partner before marriage, it’s certainly not a rare occurance, but you’ll have to see how ‘devout’ your girl is in that aspect and others. Only time will tell, but seems to me it could get rocky for you, heck I married a Baptist not a Catholic and it was a pretty big deal for me, still is to a degree.

@KNOWITALL I don’t understand that though. Lets say you truely believe in the Lord and his teachings. But have frequent pre-marital sex, then repent for your sins, knowing the fact you will continue to have pre-marital sex, surely you’re not truely repentful. Its like some sort of religious loophole!

@thebluewaffle Honestly the only one who can judge anyone is God. If someone does continue to have premarital sex and then repent afterwards it’s not really a religious loophole as much as that person just is not as dedicated as they should be and they also are not learning the true meaning of God’s word or message.

And it’s true in Corinthians.

2 Corinthians 6:14
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

I find it rather endearing though that you are trying to understand. Maybe God is tugging at your heartstrings also?

@thebluewaffle I think you have to give it a little time to see where she settles in her faith. I don’t think I could ever marry someone who believed people who are not Christians don’t get into heaven. I’m a Jewish atheist, and if my children were around that type of thinking from my husband (their father) or his family it would bother me for multiple reasons. I also would be pretty bothered if my children wound up beng evangelical Christians. My husband was raised Catholic, his parents are very religious and have a strong belief in God, and I trust 100% they respect me, my beliefs, and would never ever interfere with how I raise my children religiously (if I had children). I also would be ok if my children wound up deciding Catholicism is for them, although I prefer they identify with Judaism.

My husband is a theist and I am an atheist, and it has never once been an issue, because we both are not religious. Neither of us seek to go to religious services every week. Neither of us worry about the minute details of a religion. He actually is less tolerant than me of the fanatically religious. I don’t even know if fanatic is the right word. I am not talking about terrorists or anything, but people who follow their church blindly, can’t seem to think for themselves, and who want everyone to believe as they do. He can’t stand it.

See how it goes and then you really have to start asking each other the big questions. How will you want the household to be religiously? If she says a prayer before every meal is it going to get on your nerves or make you uncomfortable? If she goes to church every Sunday will it become a point of contention? If she wants to put crosses up in the house will you feel like you are living in someone else’s house? Will politics become a difficult subject? How will each of you want to raise your children? Is she ok with her children being told daddy believes there is no God?

I can tell you if the marriage winds up in divorce, and I am not assuming it would by any means, but if it did, things get worse regarding the children. Sometimes the religious spouse goes even more overboard with the children either out of spite or feeling free to not consult with the other parent, because afterall it is to save their soul. The atheist parent can make mistakes too out of anger or lack of sensoring themselves.

Interreligious marriages absolutely can work, but you need to ask the hard questions of each other before getting married.

@Kay_Jelly I don’t know if its God pulling at my heartstrings, or more the fact that to have an opinion on somethin you need to explore and learn about it!
What I find endearing is that as a non believer, I am dubbed dark and unrighteous….couldnt have described me better!

And in regards to my age, I’m 25! Not a teen, but throw a damn good temper tantrum just like one!

Arise, o god! Plead thine own cause. Remember how the fool reproacheth thee daily.

Dark, unrighteous fools, we. As an apostate, I’m even worse. Haha.

@thebluewaffle Fact is, a lot of people are down on Christians for a lot of things, but one thing that is always underrated and often overlooked, is that being a Christian and living a Christian life is NOT EASY. Temptation is always something you have to deal with and try to overcome.

Being young & Christian is very difficult, with peer pressure and many secular friends. You want to go out and have fun and drink beer or party, but you know you owe your God your best effort at rising above the temptations. A lot of people backslide because of this and have to repent frequently or re-dedicate themselves to a Christian lifestyle.

I have the utmost respect for some people I know who have turned away from the beer, the drugs and the pre-marital sex, often to ridicule, being unpopular or getting their butts kicked (especially guys.) I couldn’t do it, I’ll be honest, and it really threw me into a tailspin when I was a teen, heck, even now I’m not perfect but I strive for it, that’s all a fallible human can do, and Jesus knows that.

All I’m saying is that if you love your girl and want to support her on this spiritual journey, try not to push her or tempt her, let her make the decision for a little while. And while I am a Christian, be open to her exploring other religions as well, like Buddhism, etc…something you can both do together.

Whatever her choices are, and even if you remain atheist, exploring the spiritual side of life is important to both of your and your growth. Just knowing you’re open to it and supportive of my decisions would make me love you even more.

@thebluewaffle The combination of your girlfriend finding Jesus and you dating fir so many years made it seem like you were younger than 25. Although, I do have two friends who “found” their religion again when they were in their early to mid 20’s. They were raised Catholic, and then when they were starting their adult lives after college they had a revival of sorts of their committment to their religion and God. They didn’t get virginal again though. Now in their 40’s one of them thinks she might be an atheist, after being very committed to Catholicism for most of her adult life, and the other one is still a theist and Catholic, but doesn’t do much with it and gets pretty issed off about some things like when she wanted to get her tubes tied in her 40’s she couldn’t do it in a Catholic hospital.

So, no matter what an SO can go through changes in their religious beliefs, and that is why the respect for each other is so important, and being willing to be in different places of belief and faith.

You have been dating her for years in your 20’s, so what is stopping you from proposing marriage?

@JLeslie I should think that her newfound commitment to god is a pretty good reason to put the brakes on any marriage plans for a while. I know that would make me question the future of a relationship – and you have also introduced all kinds of religion-related questions that affect long-term relationship plans.

@glacial It doesn’t explain why he has not proposed marriage yet. They have been dating 4 years. She just went all religious on him recently. If her parents know the OP is atheist I would bet they are working on her to get her to leave him. That still does not explain why the OP has not proposed marriage yet. For all I know he has been in graduate school, I obviously have no idea.

I left the army a year and a half ago, started an electrical apprenticeship and obviously do not have he means to support a family at the moment. Yes her parents do know I’m athiest and I’ve told them I well remain so indefinitely! They want me to become a Christian but I can’t been taken into something which comes across as a contradictive, controlling brainwashing religion.

@thebluewaffle Okay, that’s different if she’s got a Christian family, which means she probably grew up immersed in the doctrine.

It doesn’t have to be contradictive and controlling, just treat people kindly and compassionately, don’t judge others and live the best life you can. All the rest is subjective to me, but the real basics are good human traits for everyone, even atheists as I’ve heard here on fluther….lol

@thebluewaffle What does your girlfriend think of your atheism? It probably freaks her parents out. A Catholic friend of mine married a Baptist. He was not religious like his Baptist parents and was fine with her raising their children Catholic and neither of them are very religious. His parents and his family definitely had negative things to say about the Catholics. His mom would write him letters when he was in college and years afterwards telling him she worries about him, his soul, that he drinks (not an alcoholic or anything like that) and just overall she worries he is not living in a Christian way. This is a good man who is a hard working family man. They have been happily married over 20 years. His parents are wonderful people. They are always wonderful whenever I spend time with them, but I think if their son had wanted to marry me they would have been in the hospital from the anxiety. It doesn’t mean her parents are the same, but that whole religious Christian thing is more than just worrying the couple might have difficult times or that there will be fewer Christians in the world.

I think they pity me, but respect my beliefs. The same as I find how they question science with christia ity I find pretty intolerable. The laugh at the idea of humans evolving from apes, when studies show apes have something like 95% genetic similarities! I mean no offence, but I’ve always thought of it as a childish way of thinking. I don’t know if I feel a slight loss of respect towards her. Again, I am not here to slag off Christianity. These are my views.

@thebluewaffle Not all Christians are opposed to evolution, even if God created the spark that created initial life in any form, or even the Big Bang, it can still be attributed to Him as the Creator.

As far as losing respect for her, your statement about them pitying you but respecting your beliefs is interesting to me, and that attitude from them is typical Christian viewpoint (imo). Why can’t you show her the same respect?

I just think it’s sad that some atheists think they’re absolutely right when God cannot be disproved or proved. Be careful with that way of thinking if you want this to work out.

@thebluewaffle How does your girlfriend feel about atheists? Just because your girlfriend has become more devout in her beliefs, doesn’t mean she has ditched things like evolution. Plenty of Christians are fine with the theory of evolution.

@KNOWITALL You think pity can be respectful? That is interesting. I am not disagreeing, I just need to really think about it, because it strikes me as odd. I don’t pity people usually because of their beliefs. I just feel they have their beliefs and I have mine.

@JLeslie Yes, I do. Most Christians I know, and maybe even @thebluewaffle‘s gf’s folks, would never say that for risk of offending the atheist.

A non-believer wouldn’t know the love, comfort and peace they are missing. It’s something you can’t really explain to people who have never had that kind of exposure to a perfect love.

@KNOWITALL I actually agree that many Christians would pity nonChristians. I understood why. I also think the wording the OP chose about evolution and brainwashing doesn’t sound respectful to a Christian.

@JLeslie yes, now I read it back. It is weird, they are not forceful with idea onto me, they have actually said they feel sorry for me because I don’t believe, which is obviously a form of pity!

@KNOWITALL I honestly do try and see it from all sides. I always felt ask a logical question to a christian about their religion, you are answered with a sort of mystical, evasive and not really to the point answer. Again please I don’t want this to turn into debating people’s beliefs, I don’t think either party would stop! Haha!
I just wanted a bit of advice and guidence which thankfully, everyone has given me!

I think I’m a debate junkie, and I’m going through withdrawals. It’s taking all my fortitude not to hijack this thread.

You’re welcome.

I thought about it, the problem with the pity is, it lacks the ability to understand that nonChristians also can have peace and happiness in life. I completely support people who find happiness and comfort in their religious beliefs. I don’t feel like theists are missing something in life because they are theists. I don’t feel like Christians are to be pitied. If Christians have an inability to understand that people who believe differently also can lead very full lives, it show a lack of respect for other people’s beliefs. It is basically saying a Christian thinks they know better than everyone else. There is a holier than thou-ness about it. <Pun intended.> Real respect would be believing the individual knows what is best for themselves and supporting it.

@thebluewaffle Oh honey, we debate religion here all the time, it doesn’t always turn ugly, I promise, but I understand that and will respect that.

@Jleslie I’m going to respect the OP and not debate this here, but I think it brought up some valid points I’d like to discuss further.

@Seek_Kolinahr lol

@KNOWITALL oh I couldn’t care less, I love getting my debate on, ive had a load of posts deleted and messages from mods and stuff! Yay! So trying to chill out as fluther is a great source of info!

@JLeslie thank you! You have what I’ve couldn’t really put into words! Her parents asked what i believe in…I said myself and my family and friends. Also that i am very happy with my life and don’t feel like I need religion in it. But apparently this answer was selfish? I like the idea of a creator but I just cannot believe it.

@thebluewaffle Selfish? I’m not sure why they think that exactly. Right now what matters is your girlfriend. What does she really think? Does she really want to get married? There could be people in her ear telling her giving the milk away for free (do you know that saying) is a bad strategy to get married, and incorporating in the Christianity gives her a perfect excuse to hold out on sex with you. It could easily be much more complex than what it is on it’s face. Only way to know is have a conversation with her. Don’t assume anything.

I’m going to assume you truly have waited to propose because you were establishing your career, which I think is a very stand up thing to do. Men who care about being financially responsible for their spouses is very honorable. But, if there have been little red flags that you have windered if you really want to soend the rest of your life with her or not, this is the time to pay attention to those, outside of this religion thing. I’m not assuming there are red flags, just putting it out there.

@JLeslie I have love and/or respect for many people here, whether we believe the same or not. Nor do I think people who don’t believe in God are selfish, not at all, I’m not sure why any Christian would feel that way. I’ve seen atheist parents that raised their children better than some Christian’s I know actually. :)

Just remember, I was raised here in the Bible Belt, we’re talking hard-core believers of many varieties. I’ve seen abuse in God’s name of wife and children. My uncle is super-religious and imo, a horrible parent in some ways because of it, rigid and unyielding.

@KNOWITALL I never was assuming you felt that way. :) I don’t assume all Christians feel the same.

@JLeslie Not just financially, we’ve always been open about it, always said we’d marry in a few years, both want kids together at the right time (not discussed religiously yet)
And I will never marry to just have sex, in the event that I stay with her, i would propose when I feel I’m ready to. Definitely not right now!

@Kay_Jelly I don’t know if its God pulling at my heartstrings, or more the fact that to have an opinion on somethin you need to explore and learn about it! What I find endearing is that as a non believer, I am dubbed dark and unrighteous….couldnt have described me better!

This confuses me a little? You don’t think that possibly the fact that for you to have an opinion on Christianity than you should actually explore and learn about it? Otherwise you are just really giving opinions just from other peoples experiences or just from plain ignorance and if anything maybe your girlfriend could teach you a thing or two and the two of you could learn something together.

Also I am confused why you keep classifying “Christianity” as a religion. IMHO its not really a religion but more of a faith. Anglican, or baptist or the LDS (<HOLEEE :/ stay away from that one!) is religion and is Christian all of these religions are why I choose to stay away from religion. O_o

People can still follow the Christian God, have a relationship with Him and not be fooled. Which I think if you strip away all of that and actually have a relationship with God Himself you will understand Him much better, religion IMHO is just a pious way for people to gather and feel like they are close to their God and sometimes throw in a little manipulation and threats.

Anyway, that is why I say it is God who is pulling at your heartstrings. So if you are indeed “dark and unrighteous” maybe He is nudging you because He indeed has other plans for you and your gf, consider it like Him talking to you, but of course as per usual atheists and non believers do not want to listen or they just don’t believe that hog wash. :P

Besides if you were so _dark and unrighteous we wouldn’t be having this conversation would we? I’m sure that was sarcasm._

Maybe I’m not so confused after all! lol.

@KaY_Jelly I tend to believe we all have dark and light inside us, it depends on which we cultivate. I’ve been pretty dark and pretty devout at different times in my life. (But I’m always righteous dude!)

/ me bites lip

@KaY_Jelly How is Christianity not a religion? I can see how some Christians might think of themselves as theists, but not religious, but Chritstianity is most certainly a religion. Judaism is a religion also, even though I am a Jew and an atheist and not religious. For me personally Judaism is more my culture, my ethnicity, my people, but it is still also a religion.

You don’t see how calling an atheist dark and unrighteous is offensive? Basically saying we are evil and immoral. Really nice. Nice sweep of the paint brush there. Also implying Christians are in the light and moral. We all know plenty of people who claim to be Christians are horrible people. We could argue that they are not real Christians, but that is not the point.

Since one of the most basic things about Christianity is a belief that Jesus is your Lord and savior, and the OP does not and cannot believe in God according to what he has said, what more is there? Learning about Christianity will do what? Don’t get me wrong I find religions very interesting and I find Christianity interesting, but as long as Christians want to believe all others are dark and unrighteous, I don’t want to touch that religion with a ten foot poll. I am sure there are sects and congregations that don’t pick that passage out and who don’t believe that. If I were looking for a religion I might be willing to consider that group. My biggest problem with Christianity is that they judge others. They say God is the judge, but they believe you have to accept Christ to go to heaven, and I can’t, I just can’t believe in a God who would think that way. It makes no sense to me. If there is a God I absolutely don’t believe He would judge people on which religion they choose, but rather if they behave in a moral way. I believe “our Father” would want all his children to be good to each other most of all.

@Seek_Kolinahr You’re doing really good.

@Seek_Kolinahr Why are you restraining yourself? It’s freakin’ me out.

@JLeslie “I believe “our Father” would want all his children to be good to each other most of all.” Agreed, but I don’t believe all the nonsensical stereotypes about Jews either. That paint brush is not a good thing.

because we’re in general…

Oh. I’ll stop.

@JLeslie I actually didnt call him “dark and unrighteous”. I was questioning as to why he said that, which I summed up saying it must have been sarcasm, meaning I thought it was him who was being sarcastic.

Of course it is offensive. That is why I was questioning his comment. Honestly though we are all sinners, followers of God or not, so I am not sure where this is going..we are all equal. @KNOWITALL summed that up pretty nicely. ;)

Also @JLeslie when I say Christianity is not a ‘religion’ I mean that like think of Christianity as a tree and the branches being the Christian denominations which are the religions. That’s all I meant. Technically you are right too but I was just giving a different explanation of it because like you say which is what I said, you can be a theist without the religion, I personally think most religion tries to suck you in and God himself does not do that. For example when I suggested that the OP maybe is being nudged by God he said he “didn’t’ know” which implies that he has free will, but some religions do not respect the fact that you have free will because they are not formed by God himself but rather by humans who think they know what their idea of God is.

If the OP as you and he say “does not and cannot believe in God” than I personally do not see any reason for the relationship to continue, because IMHO that is the “good that can come out of it.” Because personally if it is causing an issue in their relationship right now this way, it seems like the OP is giving his gf one choice and if she was to further her relationship with this OP which means that if she were to possibly give in to the OP’s desires and let go of what she believes in otherwise and if not as he has already blatantly stated “i am very happy with my life and don’t feel like I need religion in it”, “I like the idea of a creator but I just cannot believe it”, and the ever so famous “in the event that I stay with her, i would propose when I feel I’m ready to. Definitely not right now!” Which only confirms for me that he wants her to go back to the way things were before he moves forward with her.

So I am sorry if I am not falling for it, but it seems basically like the OP is throwing “a damn good temper tantrum”. I think this OP would be happy if his relationship went back the way it was and he has the right to feel like that. So instead of torturing himself and his gf maybe the only advice I can give if the other advice was not good enough is that it probably is better if he moves on and finds someone where faith will not be a source of contention in the relationship like it obviously is here for him.

That’s all I’ve got folks.

@KaY_Jelly I tend to agree with you after reading his posts again thoroughly. It sounds like it will be painful for both of them, even if they love each other.

One of the reasons I don’t attend church but maintain my relationship with God, is that people are so disappointing in their judgement and lack of love. Even on fluther I’ve talked to a few Christians who upset me about SSM and are so black and white with no gray areas at all, it drives me crazy. Churches as business also infuriate me, some even ask for tax returns here when you join, I’m out on all that materialistic, monetary use of God’s name. I get you sister.

@KNOWITALL I know it is ridiculous. Religion is a source of contention. That’s why I was trying to expose the difference between the relationships of faith and religion. Faith in the Christian God is totally different than going to church every weekend and following their rules. If anything I swear that usually turns more people away from God than it does turn them to Him. Some like me and you from the sounds of it, go back faithfully, others cannot let go of how they have felt let down by Him.

OK so now I will stop because its starting to sound a little preachy, sorry.

@KaY_Jelly Honestly, most of what you wrote sounds like it was written by a Christian who doesn’t get how non-Christians think or hear things. I don’t say that as a criticism, I say that to let you know how it is received.

I don’t understand your tree analogy. You are saying the branches are various Christian denominations? Like one branch is Baptist, one Mormon, one Methodist, etc.? And, where are the other religions? Another tree in the forrest?

I never doubted people can be theists without religion. not only that but different people define God differently.

You say some religions are not formed by God, so the only religions you think are legitimate or good are ones that believe in the same single God? What about Buddhists? Jews believe in your same God, or actually you all believe in the same Jewish God, you just believe Jesus was the Messiah and Jews don’t. So, same belief in God, but not really I guess, because the Jews aren’t getting through the pearly gates, neither are the Muslims I assume, but same God. are you saying Judaism was not formed by God? Since it isn’t Christianity?

My husband believes in God and I don’t and it has never been an issue in 20 years. He can believe, he can teach our children about God and his beliefs surrounding God if we had kids, I have no problem with it, because I don’t see anything negative about believing in God. My problem would be is if he taught them one view of God is the only right way and all other people are damned.

I never think in terms of all people are sinners, that is a Christian way of thinking. You don’t realize how much of your language is “Christian.”

The OP was complaining about no sex, not that his girlfriend is Christian. They as a couple need to sort through whether religious differences will affect their relationship or not long term.

Just a general update, I anonymously dropped some flowers off at her place.

She thought it was a lovely gesture! Happy days all round!

@KaY_Jelly The ‘not right now’ part of the proposal is because of my situation not hers. If you read my original question it does say she’s always wondered about Christianity, I was the one maybe that encouraged her to go if she felt she needed to! That panned out well!

”@KaY_Jelly Honestly, most of what you wrote sounds like it was written by a Christian who doesn’t get how non-Christians think or hear things. I don’t say that as a criticism, I say that to let you know how it is received.”

@JLeslie I respect your opinion. I am sorry it comes across that way I am also Christian so things I say will sound very Christian. As for not understanding how a non-Christian thinks or hears things, well that is just not the case I understand completely. I was once an atheist, I was also into witchcraft and various other cultish activities, I have explored many religions including Buddhism my life was never peaceful until now. I realized it was not for me on a night of what was ritual grave robbing. I was in a very dark place. For some time I even gave up seeking anything at all. So if anyone here is dark and unrighteous I’d call myself that first before anyone else.

“I don’t understand your tree analogy. You are saying the branches are various Christian denominations? Like one branch is Baptist, one Mormon, one Methodist, etc.? And, where are the other religions? Another tree in the forrest?”

I will try to deconstruct all of your concerns as much as possible so you understand what I am talking about.

Yes. I am saying the branches are the various Christian denominations. There are so so many of them too. :/ And I was just using that to give you a visual of the idea of what I was talking about. As for the other religions I wasn’t actually using them as part of my analogy because here right now we are only talking about Christianity. So for now sure they can be another tree or even the sun and the rain that helps to feed and nourish the tree but at this point we aren’t really talking about other religions.

“You say some religions are not formed by God, so the only religions you think are legitimate or good are ones that believe in the same single God?”

This part you are twisting. When I said some religions do not respect the fact that you have free will because they are not formed by God himself but rather by humans who think they know what their idea of God is.

What I am not saying here is that I think the only religions that are legitimate or good are ones that believe in the same single God. Rather what I am saying is that regardless of possible infallible doctrine for whichever religion the case may be, human religious ways are fallible and humans do not always respect their God or the doctrine, whoever or whatever that is, in this case we are talking about Christianity.

“You don’t realize how much of your language is “Christian.””

Well it’s because I just happen to be a Christian.

The OP was complaining about no sex, not that his girlfriend is Christian.

And yes the OP was complaining about no sex in the opening of the question. But in the details of the question we learn that is is due to the fact “she’s completly changed and given herself to god.” And that is the Christian God. which brings us here to this point.

@thebluewaffle I understand that you encouraged her. I understand that you love her. These things I do not dispute. I do however am not sure what you were expecting after she went full on God crazy. What do you want from her now and for your future? Is Christianity going to be a source of contention for you and her and your relationship? Are you going to be able to now live with the idea that your once sex filled relationship has taken a turn for celibacy road until marriage, whenever that may be?

It also is true as you have said that if she were to follow God’s word then she should not marry an unbeliever. I also am not so sure why you encouraged her if you are against it? I think since you pushed her towards it you would want her to follow her heart, right? Even if that means no sex until marriage? What did you think would happen? I would also think you would also encourage her to be faithful to God and Christianity or else the part about not being able to marry an unbeliever would not bother you.

Considering all of that I do think you had a temper tantrum because you weren’t expecting her to go full force and you weren’t ready for such a big shift in your relationship, and that as I already have said is completely understandable.

I definitely do not think you are a bad guy. I hope I am not giving that impression. I think the flowers are a very nice gesture.

I encouraged her because I do love her and want her to be happy. I can’t stop here following her belief, only encourage. I naively thought sex would not be an issue as it never was in the previous years together, didn’t really think it would change! I’m seeing her tonight and I do want to make it work. I think if I was planning to propose in years to come anyway and spend the rest of my life with her then he years of no sex would be miniscule compared to actually being with her in the long run.

If that made any sense at all!

@thebluewaffle It makes perfect sense to me. I would not have guessed sex life would be affected either. I would encourage my SO to explore religious curiousity also if he felt like he needed to.

Is she willing to do everything except have intercourse? If so I think that is just completely ridiculous. Not that you should tell she is ridiculous that wouldn’t be good. Moreover, if you try to reason with her too much you will just look manipulative.

@thebluewaffle You see! Those answers you gave tell me you are a good guy!
So at least you have time to think about it.

If you stick with her you never know she may end up not being as faithful to God as she is right now. It won’t be the first time it has happened.

I personally as a Christian do not promote that behaviour in my own personal life but when it comes to others it is not my place to judge, but I can pray for her sake that she and even you keep making the right choices.

You may also learn more about Christianity even though that’s not on your own personal agenda.

Best of luck.

@KaY_Jelly What “right” choices?

@JLeslie Are you are drilling me because you think I have some type of hidden agenda or are you possibly trying to expose me because you think I am hiding something? Otherwise why all the personal questions about me and my faith? This I am not quite sure. Does it matter? Really? pfft.

The choices that I pray for are the choices that I think are right. No harm done there, if atheism is right (and I am holding onto faith that atheism is not) that there indeed is no God does it really matter in this situation what choices I think are right because if I do indeed pray do you actually think that the OP will receive that prayer? Unless you are afraid the OP will hear my prayer from God, otherwise you have nothing to fear about what I think are the right choices for him or his gf, since I obviously hold no influence on his situation, as you know and he has proved he has the choice to make his own mind up, I am not holding a loaded gun to his head.

I’m sorry but I am feeling a little like I need to protest right now. Free will and equality forever!

@KaY_Jelly My motive is to make sure I don’t make any wrong assumptions so I ask the question. I know a lot of Christians think questions are attacks, but my question was just a question to clarify. I don’t think you are hiding anything. What you said about right choices sounds to me like you think Christianity is right. But, maybe you don’t mean that at all. I still don’t know. If you think Christianity is the right choice, that just reinforces what bothers nonChristians about Christians. I don’t understand why Christians (some Christians) don’t understand that. If you mean you are going to pray that the OP makes the right choice for himself and his life, then that sounds just fine to me.

@JLeslie I don’t think @KaY_Jelly meant that the ‘right choices’ must be Christian choices necessarily, but maybe she did.

If someone I loved were exploring their spirituality in any way, I’d still pray that God watched over them as they made important decisions. That’s what most if not all Christians do, they believe in God.

@JLeslie If that is what the non Christians think “you think Christianity is the right choice, that just reinforces what bothers nonChristians about Christians.”

Then I’m sorry but that part just bothers me about the non-Christians who believe that then. 0_o

Because of course I think that Christianity is the right choice for me. I try not to judge non-Christians. I am not going to speak for other Christians who are pushy with their faith, because that goes against what I believe in. I have always stated I believe in free will. The Christian God that I understand is a God of free will.

You JUST SAID that you hope he makes the ‘right choice’, and by that you meant the choice you believe is ‘right’. How is that NOT judging his choices by your religious convictions?

@KaY_Jelly I don’t care what you choose for you. I care that you think the right choice for the OP is Christianity. You were speaking to the OP when you said You hope he makes the right choice, that has nothing to do what your beliefs are it has to do with what you hope his beliefs will be.

@Seek_Kolinahr @JLeslie I believe I just explained it. If it’s not good enough well then you can read into my answers all you want.

I have to go to work. I don’t have time for this right now.

Lord have mercy.

@JLeslie “I care that you think the right choice for the OP is Christianity.”
OK. You are the Boss.

“You were speaking to the OP when you said You hope he makes the right choice,”
Yes I was speaking to the OP, never mind the fact that he encouraged his gf into Christianity right? I wasn’t meaning for him to go all Christian. Me praying for the right thing is not up to me what the right thing is. I believe in God so IMHO it is God who somewhat influences us, I have this manual here that tells me what the right things may be, and I just pray for the best or ‘hope’ as you like to say, it may not happen, it’s not up to me, don’t pin it on me.

And I am not getting into the question ‘I thought you said we had free will’, I am not explaining it, if you have so many questions of Christianity research it yourself.

‘that has nothing to do what your beliefs are it has to do with what you hope his beliefs will be.”
What? First you are saying I believe the best choice for the OP is Christianity, now you say it has nothing to do with what my beliefs are but what I ‘hope’ his beliefs will be. Sure I can hope he becomes Christian with his gf whats wrong with it? I can also ‘hope’ the world ends tomorrow because maybe I think that’s the best chance for our species but chances are I won’t get my ‘hopes’ answered.

Looks like your prayers are going to be answered!!! If you want mercy, then mercy you shall receive. I will graciously take that as a hint and set sail and pray that the weather goes in my favor..Good Lord! That’s right @Seek_Kolinahr! Now I am judging the very ocean I will be setting sail upon…how dare I.

I sure hope when I set sail the weather also goes my way, but honestly when does that really ever happen..Are you there God? It’s Me Margaret.

@KaY_Jelly Ok, you answered my question. You do hope he becomes a Christian. That’s all I wanted to know, I wanted to make sure I wasn’t making the wrong assumtpion. For whatever reason you couldn’t just answer that directly at first. I’m not trying to control you, you can think and pray for whatever you want. I can also not like that Christians think only their way is the right way.

@JLeslie Funny you personally may not think Christianity is the right way but I guess then maybe you think that your way is the right way then.

TBH I don’t need anyone out here giving me the third degree about my faith. This isn’t court and what right do you have treating me or anyone else this way? Your ‘question’ was basically answered directly in my first comment to the OP when I said:

“I personally as a Christian do not promote that behavior in my own personal life but when it comes to others it is not my place to judge, but I can pray for her sake that she and even you keep making the right choices.”

If you can’t or didn’t understand my words there in that comment then it really isn’t my problem. I am sensing you have an agenda and that the point of this whole thing must be to make a spectacle out of Christians.

So now I wonder how much better are you because you don’t want the OP to become a Christian otherwise it should not even bother you if I do pray for what I believe is right, because that is just as you say hoping anyway…yet as the OP has already stated numerous times that he is the one who encouraged his gf towards Christianity, so then do you think he should just tell her to forget her ‘hopes’ too because they bug and do not conform with the ideas of non-Christians??? Which alternative is better?

You’ve been here a long time and sometimes you still derail topics which is something I wouldn’t expect you to do apparently just like I am expected to not pass any judgments, but I never actually said I do not pass judgments I actually said “it is not my place to judge”. Obviously sometimes we all make mistakes.

There is one more thing..

For some reason I do not like this sentence: “For whatever reason you couldn’t just answer that directly at first. I’m not trying to control you,”
After our entire conversation do you have any idea why?

Aaand, the question has jumped the shark. Yay, me, I managed to not get into it. Well, except that one comment.

Sharks you say? Oh I fed you the bait you silly shark.

“You’ve been here a long time and sometimes you still derail topics which is something I wouldn’t expect you to do apparently just like I am expected to not pass any judgments, but I never actually said I do not pass judgments I actually said “it is not my place to judge”.Obviously sometimes we all make mistakes.”

It’s fine though. I’d prefer to use my time more wisely and protest Sea World.