What are productive arguments?

“Statement of something I think is true!”

“Your statement is false. Here is some evidence to back up my assertion”

“Wow, I had no idea. Thank you. I will alter my position accordingly.”

This conversation sometimes takes months or years to go from A to B, but as long as it’s moving it’s productive, in my opinion.

Well, after reading a book on communication in marriage, my husband and I began to make progress on an ongoing issue. When I traveled on business, I just liked to be dropped off. He liked to accompany me to the gate and have me wait until the last minute to board. We talked about our feelings and the underlying reasons for them, and were able to go forward without arguing about the issue again.

A productive argument is one in which you focus on your own feelings and issues rather than your partner’s actions. You hold up a morror to yourself. Also, of course, no name calling or generalizations.

@Seek_Kolinahr “Wow, I had no idea. Thank you. I will alter my position accordingly.”
Said no one ever on Fluther.
Said with tongue in cheek,

Productive argument is an oxymoron.

I disagree with @Seek_Kolinahr a little bit on nuance.

“Statement of something I think of is true.”

“Your statement is false, but I am willing to change my mind if you give me good evidence to support your position.”

“Here is evidence.”

“This is good evidence I change my position (or) That is not good evidence because of x,y, or z. Please try again.”

Ones that end in makeup sex.

That’s when we enjoy a spot of verbal tennis, thrash around for a spell & then you agree that I was right all along.

I like yours better, too, @Rarebear . I was just trying to get a Sea Cheetah. Finally have home internet. It’s nice to be on a keyboard.

A what?

One of the Fluther awards. Write an answer of over 100 words that gets 3 GA within five minutes of a question being posted.

I might not have made the word limit, but hey.

I’m just REALLY stoked about having internet access in my house. It’s been like, four years.

Oh dang. Sorry.

Dropping ego and the egos need to be “right.”
Easier said than done in many cases, however…IF we are mindful enough we can recognize ego for what it is, ( feeling diminished as a whole when opposing arguments arise. )
Now, there are limits, sorry…if you try and tell me that sex with minor children is okay because children are sexual beings…well..that may be true, but, I am smart enough to know you are attempting to justify your depravity, in which case I will tell you to ” fuck off, you degenerate moron!” without any ego entering.
Just a fact. lol

Productive argument does happen. As Colonial America began to stagger under the oppressive weight of King George’s and the British East India Company’s insatiable hunger for more money with nothing given in return, debate and argument broke out about what to do. In that debate, there were everything from revolutionary liberals like Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and Ben Franklin, to Americans who were deeply concerned about rebelling against the existing social order. John Dickinson, James Wilson were indisputably loyalists, but were touched by the arguments for liberty. When the Declaration of Independence was written, they cast their lot with the Patriots. Lord Dunmore and Thomas Hutchinson are examples of men who never came around, and who paid a price for standing their ground.

The same is true in argument today. It’s extremely rare to encounter someone so enamored with truth that they will change their opinion the moment they are provided reasonable and verifiable evidence suggesting they should. But over time, lots of people will come around it the overwhelming weight of evidence appears to be against them. Then there are the ideologues who live outside the evidence based Universe. No amount of evidence will ever convince them. They will use hand waving, logical fallacies and when all else fails, just chant “Nah, nah, nah, nah! I can’t hear you!” rather then ever question a belief they hold. But even with them, you occasionally pick up a rebuttal they offer and realize it has merit, and you can then further hone your position.

Then there are all the people who aren’t directly arguing, but who are following the discussion. It’s much more likely that people among that group who have been wondering which side they should take will be influenced by the argument that relies of factual evidence instead of personal opinions and gut feelings.

So to all those who disdain debate, I would argue you are missing a great deal of the pay for living. Will I convince you? Probably not, but it’s worth a try. :-)

There are worlds of difference between argument and debate.

@Blondesjon How very true. But I did my best to craft that answer so it applied to both.

I suppose a little pandering never hurt anyone . . .

@Blondesjon, I don’t understand why you call “productive argument” an oxymoron. Any conversation or debate or even “knock-down-drag-out” argument that leads to a consensus would seem to me to be productive.

Perhaps it’s hard to believe there’s such a thing as a productive argument because they’re so rare (if not non-existent) in American politics.

My own. very simplistic example would be:

Mr. A – “I believe my way is right.”
Ms. B – “I believe my way is right.”
Mr. A – “Let’s agree to disagree.”
Ms. B – “Okey doke. How about a movie?”

@Pachyderm_In_The_Room Agreed, as long as Mr. A is not trying to convince Ms. B that they should have group sex with zoo animals. I might not be able to just casually shrug off that exchange and go to a movie. lol

@Pachyderm_In_The_Room . . . It has been my experience that Mr. A and Ms. B don’t work it out quite that amicably.

@Pachyderm_In_The_Room But… what was actually produced in that argument? To me, it seems like the opposite of productive (even if it is amicable).

@glacial
Well if Mr. A is anything like my ex, it might have to do with being an OCD boyscout.
I really AM “Ms. “B” in real life too. lol

Here’s an exchange I experienced many ‘a time…

Mr. B. “I am TELLING you THIS is HOW you build a fire!”
“You only need TWO sheets of newspaper and FOUR sticks of kindling…now watch me and I will show you the RIGHT way to do it!”

Me: Mrs. B.
” I don’t CARE how YOU do it, this is how I do it!”
” I would rather use FOUR sheets of newspaper and EIGHT sticks of kindling and THIS WAY, I am SURE my fire won’t collapse and go OUT!”
PISS OFF Mr. B. let me do it MY WAY you controlling JERK! lol

Heh..well..I always employ humor…I used to write my ex passive aggressive “humorous” poems…

Best opening line….

” Anal is as anal does, retentive now and always was.” hahaha
Gawd..relationships! lol

Okay, blame it on the awesome 6 yr. old Pinot Noir.

An argument of nearly any kind can be productive in many different ways. It can lead to a better understanding, a closer relationship, a new way forward, a changed mind (or heart), and can even be considered productive when it leads to an initially unwanted outcome…like the decision to terminate a relationship.

The traits of an argument most likely to be productive include being civil, sensitive, and factual and keeping things impersonal (when it isn’t about something personal). Being truthful and kind.

I’m going to agree with @Rarebear on this one.

There was an interesting Q about how jellies have changed your opinion on something and it was a pretty good list.