Should people who refuse vaccines for themselves or their children for reasons other than severe reaction be fined or jailed for premeditated assult if they catch the disease and pass it to someone else?

Not unless the vaccines are free to the public. Otherwise it’s a poor tax.

Yes. I was recently reading a report published by the WHO and OECD comparing the healthcare systems of 10 major developed countries.

We all know how the U.S. functions compared to other developed countries so it was no surprise to see some of the data, like the U.S. being number one in children who haven’t received certain vaccinations.

I’m trying to find the report right now.

I’d go further, bend them over, bare arsed & throw darts at their “bullseye”, televised would be even better.

Actually, also, there’s the issue of private choice and body sovreignty. I mean, we can’t tell people not to have an abortion, but we can force them to inject chemicals on pain of punishment.

Not particularly cool

I’m all for encouragement to do well, and information, but fining and jail time? no.

@Seek_Kolinahr I agree. Of course many would say yes in theory, but something like that just wouldn’t be implemented.

@Seek_Kolinahr Let’s say they’re free. There’s a difference between your body sovereignty and your right to put my child at risk.

Yes. The literal and figurative health of a society depends on its members sometimes sacrificing personal beliefs—especially, as in the case of vaccine denial, misguided ones.

And just to be clear, I didn’t say that they should be jailed or fined if they don’t get the vaccine. Only if they pass the disease to someone else.

Maybe if they refuse they should be made to wear a special arm band as a warning to others.

How could you possibly tell who caught what disease from whom?

A better question to ask might be “given that the flu is going to 15,000 Americans this year compared to the 17 killed by terrorists last year (number pulled from quick google search) would the NSA actually be better off snooping on people who refuse to be vaccinated?

@Seek_Kolinahr Thumbs up for the proper use of “whom”!

Sure. Just like we should be fined if we don’t get Obamacare. Like we may have our guns taken from us. Just like getting suspended from school if we take a water pistol or say, “bang!” in class or happen to draw a picture with a crayon that may sort of kind of look like a gun if you turn the drawing upside down.
Next we’ll be microchipped and I know who will be first in line to obey. This is just the tip of the iceberg. We’re losing our freedoms in America but some people are blind to it or are just sheep.
I really don’t have an answer to the question. But off the subject, both our dogs are seven or eight and neither one has ever had any kind of a shot. One of them, a bichon, did get bladder stones a year ago. They are inside dogs, have a fenced yard and eat a lot of people food.

Wow. 8 straw men in one post. Well done!

If so supported by the evidence then yes.

” How could you possibly tell who caught what disease from whom? ”

This, aside from being grammatically correct, is the sticker here.

@Aster

All your analogies fall flat.

I think reckless mayhem would cover this issue well enough. An accident happening that was entirely, or mostly preventable.

ok; I’ll accept reckless mayhem.

Has anyone heard of the Polio outbreak in the middle east from lack of vaccinating?
One example of horrific disease that vaccinating prevents and has for over 50 years now.
I agree that it would be impossible to pinpoint who gave what to whom, but, short of dire circumstance I do think children should be vaccinated for the deadliest diseases, yes.
Just as I think that religious nutcases that refuse to seek medical treatment for their children and are so deluded as to believe praying over them will cure an appendix gone wrong should also face some sort of consequence.

OTOH when it comes to animal vaccines, rabies is a great case in point. One vaccine most likely offers lifelong immunity but, because it is an always fatal disease most counties require re-vaccinating every one to three years. I disagree with this premise 100% and many dogs and cats suffer tumors and other related issues from over vaccinating.
It’s always going to be a double edged sword IMO.

@Coloma it was actually that outbreak that had me musing on this.

Oh, and GREAT example with rabies.

@Rarebear That Polio coverage broke my heart. The misery and suffering that could so easily be prevented. :-(

I have read that polio was on a rapid decline when the Salk vaccine came out. But it is an important question worth investigating.

@aster where did you read that?

I have no idea . Over the internet a couple years ago. Don’t know if it’s true or not.

Okay. I’ll save you the trouble. It’s not true. Polio was a scourge and Salk saved millions from death and disability.

Did he have his doubts about vaccinations? ”“Salk was marooned out there in Pittsburgh, fiddling with an old-fashioned killed-virus vaccine and doing the dog’s work that his betters refused to do.” Yet he was close to the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis and to O’Connor. He was meticulous in his science. “It was a game of trial and error, testing and tinkering, and few knew it better than Jonas Salk.” He was confident about his work but aware of its dangers. “ ‘When you inoculate children with a polio vaccine,’ he said later, ‘you don’t sleep well for two or three months.’” MIT Review

I think he was on pins and needles hoping that his vaccine helped those babies. He didn’t get the vaccine from a magic genie – he had to develop it. It was a waiting game to see whether he got the formula right, and it was both effective and safe.

If we could easily infect others with something fatal it’s different. @Rarebear convince us flu is that dangerous plz.

@KNOWITALL It can be most certainly. There have been many flu epidemics in history that have wiped out thousands and thousands. Complications such a Pneumonia etc. are nothing to scoff at.
The flu I contracted traveling in Feb. of 2006 was damn near a killer. When I got home and went to my doctor for extreme head pain he told me the lining of my brain was inflamed. It was horrible, I have never been so sick in my life, I absolutely wanted to die on the spot. haha

1918.

@Seek_Kolinahr Thanks…I was going to look that date up..I had a great grandfather fall in that epidemic.

Depends on which vaccinations you’re referring to. Are we talking about the Hepatitis, Measles, and Rubella vaccinations we get as children or annual flu vaccinations?

I think the big childhood vaccinations should be required. Should failure to do so result in jail time for the parent? I’m not so sure. Failure to get a flu shot should definitely not result in jail time, though. If you spread the flu to another person, that person likely didn’t get their flu shot either, so they have themselves to blame. And, as mentioned, there’s no way to prove who infected that person.

@KNOWITALL Three of the sickest patients I’ve ever taken care of who survived were young healthy women who had the flu. One of them I had to put a tracheostomy in because I couldn’t get her off the ventilator, and she was in the hospital for weeks. It breaks my heart when I see people who are healthy come in, near death, because they didn’t get a flu shot. It’s so dangerous that we require every person in our hospital to get a flu shot or wear a mask.

Most people do okay with the flu. They’re sick for a week and they get better. Some however do very very badly, and there is absolutely no way to predict who that will be.

My doctor did NOT tell me to get one & did NOT tell me I was a risk. Many hospital workers here fought mandatory shots.

@KNOWITALL Well I am and you are.

Too bad there isn’t a vaccine to boost IQ.
It could be called ” Dumbafix” lol

” Worried you are a dumb fuck, well now there is Dumbafix, proven in clinical trials to raise ones IQ to at least that of a sausage.”
“Talk to your doctor to see if Dumbafix is right for you.”
” Dumbafix may cause erectile dysfunction, but this side effect is a bonus for those too dumb to contemplate reproducing anyway.” hahaha

I just need my regular dose of Fukitol, in order to deal with all the Dumbafix patients I encounter on a daily basis.

@Seek_Kolinahr LOL…yeah, and combining Dumbafix with Fukitol is a major problem in our society.

Mixing uppers and downers never leads to anything good.

^^^^ haha…thanks for the morning laughs!

We are facing an ethical dilemma here.

We now know that obesity is contagious (copy of behavior). People around obese people are more likely to become obese as well. Should people who refuse diets and exercise for themselves or their children be fined or jailed for premeditated assult if they catch the disease and pass it to someone else? Should pregnant smokers be fined or jailed?

@mattbrowne Pregnant women are harming not only themselves but their babies, so a little different, but the answer for me, is still no.

@KNOWITALL I haven’t forgotten about your request. Still travelling.

Pregnant women who smoke should be beaten soundly about the head and shoulders.

I’m only half kidding.

I wanted to point out that it’s sometimes difficult to determine where to draw the line. Freedom that restricts the freedom of others is problematic.

Bad diets also harm the unborn babies, not just smoking, for example.