Damaged/Stolen Property: Pay for it or replace it?

I don’t know if this helps, but an insurance company would replace the item with an item that was worth the same amount. I think he should replace it rather than giving you 60 bucks.

Yep. Agreed. Neither of your brothers have their heads screwed on straight.

Hmmm. Since it is pretty evident you bought a hot bike cheap, and had it a long time, I think your brother should get you an economically equivalent bike, one that is very used and if not hot is not top of the line.

A couple of thoughts: This is between you and the brother that lost the bike. The other brother needs to butt out. This includes both of you venting to the other brother.

How about the two of you sitting down and discussing the situation? After all, every scenario is different. If this should occur, please look at the situation from his perspective. What would you do if in his shoes? It may not be the same as you, but still should be taken into consideration.

Keep the conversation as objective as possible. Work together on an action plan for resolving the situation. Hold him accountable for what he agrees to do.

Unless you are poor and/or the bike is a necessity in your life, this seems like a minor inconvenience. In the end, you may teach him a life lesson. Hopefully, it won’t be that he could lose a brother’s love over a mistake.

Any bike one would leave unattended outdoors isn’t worth riding.

@Pied_Pfeffer

There were a lot of details I left out because I thought it wasn’t relevant to the question at hand:

When my brother moved back home, I told him outright to get his own bike and not to expect to borrow mine all the time. He bought himself a single-gear bike (against my advice). When he had mechanical issues, he asked if he could borrow mine until he got it fixed. He discovered that my bike was much more comfortable for long rides, going up hills, was easier on his knees, etc. So, he kept borrowing it, again and again, while his bike collected dust. I’ve been dealing with some other issues lately, so I didn’t bug him about it.

On his way out the door this last time, I saw that he was going to use the combination lock on my bike, which I knew was not sufficient. I suppose I could have stopped him right there and disallowed him to take my bike, but I guess I didn’t want to be a jerk. Does this make me just as responsible for the theft?

On top of all this, my brother has a history of being callous with the belongings of other people. He has a tendency to really “wear” things out and when he returns your property to you, it is usually in a worse state than when it left your hands (which is why I was so adamant about him getting his own bike). When he is called out on his behavior, he always has an excuse or a technicality to absolve himself. This time, there were several:

-“I’ve never had a bike stolen before.”
-“It was an old bike that you were going to sell anyways.”
-“You should have let me borrow one of your better bike locks.”

BTW, he offered to give me his single-gear as compensation, which I refused, saying, “I want a bike that is similar to the one you took from me.”

He owes you a bike. Plain and simple.

And it needs to be quite similar to your old one. Never let him borrow any of your stuff again.

Never lend to friends or family unless you expect to never get it back.
1. If you got it so cheap on Craig’s list it was probably stolen from someone else.
2. Is your relationship with your brother worth more than a couple hundred bucks?

He owes you an equal replacement.

And there is the rub. You already knew what your brother was like. You agreed to lend him your bike. A warning was issued about the quality of the lock. The brother still used a lock; you were wary. He didn’t take your advice (once again). The bike was stolen.

If you want to vent and have someone to listen to it, let us know that this is the intent. If you want advice that may lead to a better result, it has been given.

You bought a used bike for $60.

You used it for 2 years.

You lent it to your brother, with full knowledge that he was not intending to secure it properly.

Sucks to be you, bro.

It would be decent of him to offer you $40 or so toward replacement. And I think that would be generous. When you buy a used car, it’s rarely worth ⅔ the value you bought it for three years later.

Next time, provide your own cut-proof lock and chain.

I can see your dilemma. On the one hand, you’re without a bike and he’s responsible, so he owes you a bike. On the other, he is likely to be a careless shopper, by all indications, and you may wind up with something worthless. Would you rather have negotiable cash or a take-it-or-leave-it object that you probably can’t unload and may end up replacing anyway at your own expense?

I think this needs to be a learning experience for more than one person. How about if you do the shopping and he agrees to pick up the tab within some not-to-exceed range? Perhaps finding a legitimate sale of a legitimate item at a legitimate price would be a good exercise.

Never lend something you can’t afford to lose.

Where are your parents in this picture?

@Jeruba according to his profile he’s “studying for his law school exam.”

Dang, I need to update my profile.

We’re both adults. He’s actually a doctor (or a resident, in any case).

I’ve been down this road with him before and learned my lesson; I just wasn’t on top of it this time around because I’ve been dealing with some other heavy issues (see my other recent question for context).

My history with him isn’t the issue: I’m just asking to see if I’m being unreasonable in requiring a replacement for my property instead of monetary compensation.

@Seek_Kolinahr You are way off on this. All items devalue over time, but all prices also bottom out at some point. If I wait long enough, will my car drop to $100? It would have to be a very long time. The market value of the bike is at least $150—$200. It doesn’t matter what I paid for it, what matters is what it is worth on the open market.

I think giving you money for the bike should be ok, because it is hard to pick a bike, or anything else out for someone else. I guess $400 would be the reasonable amount if that is what another one will cost, or maybe $200 as a compromise since you did use the bike and it was all a terrible incident that it was stolen, and you are fine getting a bike that isn’t as nice.

However, if the money is not a huge deal for you, I suggest letting it go altogether and never lend him another thing; or if you do, tell him up front if it is lost or stolen or damaged exactly what you expect in return as compensation. He can decide if he wants to be indebted to you. If he screws up again that would be it, never ever again ever.

If my sister broke something of mine or it was stolen I would never ask her for the money or item, although there is a good chance she would replace it or pay for it without me asking. If my husband’s brother lost or broke something we would expect him to pay, because of his history. He has shown incredible disregard for other people’s money in the family. We literally have written IOU’s with him, which I never would do with my sister.

I think having him replace it is eminently reasonable.

I’m just asking to see if I’m being unreasonable in requiring a replacement for my property instead of monetary compensation.

That sounds reasonable to ask. Unless agreed upon in prior to the loan and documented, it is your brother’s perspective versus yours. It sounds as if replacing a bike of the same quality is the most important thing to you, and that your desire is that your brother provide that. Have you communicated this to him?

Am I the only person who thinks this is Karma? He bought an obviously stolen bike off Craig’s list and it was stolen. I don’t think anyone has a right to bitch under these circumstances.

@Judi, the bike may not have been stolen before the OP purchased it. I can think of plenty of reasons why a person would want to sell a quality bike, used, for a cheap price on Craigslist.

@Judi – I’m with you. It’s pretty douchey to expect his brother to pay three times what he was willing to pay for the bike.

And again – he gave his brother the bike in full knowledge that it was not going to be properly secured.

Ask and comply.

I am going out on a limb and saying at best if this were to go to say a civil case.. the most the brother would legally be responsible for is a % of the cost of what you spent on the bike. So if he is willing to give you more than 50% the cost you spent, sadly that is better than a judge would give.

I’m with @Judi and @Seek_Kolinahr on this. If an insurance company had a policy on this as a car instead of a bike, they’d only pay out about $35. The bike was only worth $60 when it was bought, you don’t get replacement at unlimited cost.

If the insurance had replacement coverage it wiuld be the full price of a new bike similar to the bike stolen. I have replacement on my furniture. It doesn’t matter if someone gave it to me for free.

I got the bike as part of a package with two other expensive bikes. I also negotiated the seller down because of the aforementioned mechanical issues with the bike.

Damn, I’m kind of surprised at how quick some Flutherites are to pass judgment on me based on limited information. I got a great deal on a bike so it must have been stolen! Get over yourselves.

This is not the Fluther I remember from a few years ago…