To actually prepare them for the real world, would it not be better to raise children to be liars?

But then you would have to put up with result of such indoctrination for the rest of your life. Many people don’t want a sociopath in their home.

Just a minor flaw. I am sure you’ll devise a way to over come it.

@Unbroken
That is what stand your ground laws are for.

If ‘success’ is your absolute priority and capitalist society is your real world then yes.

Ah @ragingloli but rules are meant to bent or broken. That is the precept isn’t it. Everything else is sacrificial in the face of short term or long term success.

@ragingloli Nah, you don’t have to teach them those rules. But I would be really interested to know where you learned your rules. Or lack thereof.

Too many other sources are teaching them that so you are off the hook.

I am having a hard time to define success in this scenario. In this case there are extra data hidden in the question.

Imagine that we are the parents: We were raised to be honest, truthful, good willing, to have filotimo (or else we wouldn’t have the dilemma in the first place). It may have not made us billionaires but if we have managed to make a family of our own (<have children), possibly have a job (<means to support our lifestyle and children), obviously have a developed character (<being on fluther and discussing/sharing knowledge and opinions), and probably have things to look forward to/up to (<making plans for the future, thinking the best way to raise our children). Under this scope we are quite successful ourselves. We manage that mainly because we have judgement and the ability to distinguish (usually) right from wrong or least make decisions based on ethics. Even if a society is pure capitalist, there are elements of honesty and decency in it, or else there is no room for the society to develop; thus such a society has no future.

Taking these facts into account, what is the point of taking away from our children their (possibly) only chance to learn and understand positive life values? For the sake of them having one chance in the million to become overtly rich aka capitalistic successful?

At times we may think that it would be better to teach our kids to lie in order to face the real world, but what if he lies to us? When our children start lying to us then this will make us difficult to trust them or relate with them. By teaching our kids to lie by word and actions we are destroying our child’s conscience. we must teach them to stand up for what is truth and face the real world courageously.

Children start out not being very good at distinguishing fantasy from reality. In this sense they are natural born liars. The more important life lesson is to be able to discern truth.

I think it’s important to teach kids about lying, cheating, stealing, so that they can be prepared to recognize it, and to avoid or counter it.

I prefer to suppress my cynicism and go along with both @Smitha, @LostInParadise and @dabbler.

Children should be taught that the one thing they will always own is their reputation. People are not stupid, and can instinctively (and sometimes obviously) recognize slimy, bullshit behavior when they see it.

Nothing is more important than this. Only very shallow people will attempt to judge you based on your owning a yacht, or just a rowboat…...( or no boat at all ).

I wouldn’t teaching them to be a liar is a good thing since it really contradict to morality. I would suggest to teach them how the real world works, how they will approach it will be their decision to make.

I remember everyone hating the pathological liars as children, and they are still picked on today.

Isn’t it interesting that the person that believes the ‘Pinko-Commy’ nonsense is virtuos, is the same person that is recommending that we teach our children to be dishonest. I suspect there is a lack of understanding of communism, capitalism, and honesty.

We don’t have to teach them to lie, they figure it out on their own. Children realize at a young age they can fool people around them. The most successful people learn when it is appropriate and when it isn’t.

There are a lot of bad things in the world. Our job as parents isn’t to shelter them. But rather to act as a guide through life as they encounter these lessons on their own.

While lying is a skill, it shouldn’t be a necessity. I’d rather teach them that there are better tools to get ahead in life.

At the end of the day, you live with the lies you tell. And if you’ve raised them to have a conscience, I’d hardly call that success.

Without being cynical – I’m pretty sure almost all parents are doing exactly that. Children learn by example. Counting all the white lies, all the polite small talk, the tax evasion and half-truths…how honest are we?
If parents are smart, they will also actively teach their children when it is not okay to lie. By example, if possible. “Do as I say, not as I do” never works in the long run.

I believe that it would be better to not raise children at all with an attitude like that.

Oh dear fucking gawd. That’s all I have to say about this!
Great, well @ragingloli good thing you’re in Germany, keep your little Hitlers. lol

Anti-Capitalist rant masquerading as a question.

There are situations where “lying” is simply a way to be courteous or preserve an air of civility.

For example, if I pointed you out in a crowd or had some reason to mention you to another I would likely casually use the word “gentleman.”

This discussion actually reminds me of the Farengi from Star Trek Deep space 9. I think capitalism and exploitation was like a religion to them. Well I think it would better to teach your kids how to be smarter and not to be naive. It’s a dogy dog world!

@antimatter Dog eat dog world?

Yes something like that @Nimis

The problem with having a world full of liars is that there will be no one to believe in.

Liars will beget liars whose offspring would be liars and in time truth itself would be extinct.

A muddy world indeed.

Right. But that’s assuming you aren’t lying here today, Jim….

Welcome to Fluther.

( Hey, didn’t you kick the winning field goal in the 1971 Super Bowl ?? )

Atlas only shrugged because someone asked him who farted.

Honesty is the first thing that my parents taught me. If you raise a cunning kid, it might affect you as well. Of course when a kid is a teenager you can bluntly speak about how life works but not from the childhood for sure.

Teach them white lies, yes.

@OneBadApple Field goal? Me? 71? Nah, You must have me confused with somebody else.

Whose to say that parents don’t teach people to lie… I’ve been taught how to cheat on multiple choice tests from English and statistics classes . I was asked how come I do so good and I foolishly answered the teacher. One example is a(an) if the teacher is lazy and just cut and pastes the answer than normal grammar rules should point out the right answer. Also putting percentages of being right on a piece of scrap paper, so you can predict your score, and decide how much longer you can stay in the test room… Unfortunately I told my social studies teacher and he adjusted the tests for flaws. Being honest really hurt my grade and I only had the marks to get into a crazy religious university that took people with low marks. I wanted to get into the University of Alberta. Life long regret, around test time like January I feel bad and consider rewriting my English exams again, but most of the time I chicken out and sleep in during test time. Also taking similar liberal arts classes you can have the teacher answer the next professors questions.

They learn it from their parents. No need for formal instructions.