How can Atheists offer prayers to the Unconquered Sun?
“At this season of the Winter Solstice, we celebrate the birth of the Unconquered Sun — the TRUE reason for the season. As Americans, let us also honor the birth of our Bill of Rights, which reminds us there can be no freedom OF religion, without having freedom FROM religion in government.”
This is the banner at an Atheist display set up to balance a nativity scene.
Isn’t worship of the sun just as much a religious act as worship of a baby in a manger? Wouldn’t a true atheist not worship either?
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I’m an atheist, and that sounds like gobbledygook to me. The only thing that makes sense are the words “there can be no freedom OF religion, without having freedom FROM religion in government.”
WTF is an “Unconquered Sun”?
Does not say anything about worship in that banner.
But hey, you misspelt ‘atheist’, too, so…
It’s a parody. They’re not seriously endorsing sun worship, but providing what they see as an equally absurd alternative to Christian beliefs. And of course, the parody is deepened for those who understand how many Christian traditions were taken directly from pagan celebrations.
@syz “The Unconquered Sun” is a name for Sol Invictus, the Roman sun god.
It sounds like some theist’s smartassedness.
You can honour and celebrate without worshipping. The only thing that defines an atheist is that they do not believe in any kind of deity. That doesn’t mean they don’t hold anyting sacred.
It’s not for you, or anyone else, to define what someone else’s religion or beliefs are. Only the adherents of that belief have any right to do so.
This is an example of sticking your beliefs in someone else’s face. It’s not right. Beliefs are personal… to the people who believe them.
Sorry but I “celebrate” the season. I love it. I put up a tree and a wreath on my door.
I do not worship anybody or anything but I love holidays.
The Winter Solstice has been a reason for people to celebrate for thousands of years – it’s the longest day of the year and represents the beginning of a new year.
I could write about it but it doesn’t matter. Being an atheist has nothing to do with worshiping anything. Making merry has nothing to do with worship or gods or goddesses or spirits of the forest or whatever. Celebrating holidays is a human tradition and is healthy and fun.
^^shortest day; just seems like the longest day—and I agree
Where is it written that Atheists—or for that followers of any religion—can’t offer whatever kind of prayers they wish as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else? Also, it seems to me that the star closest to earth that we call sun and which makes life possible on our planet is as good an entity to pray to as anything else—and perhaps better than most.
It might be so, but speaking as an atheist, I can not deny that the baby in the manger has his fingerprints all over Western civilization. You can protest all you want, but the fact is fact.
Well hey, at least we know that the entity they are offering up a prayer to actually does exist. I’m pretty darn sure our Sun doesn’t give a shit about their silly prayer, though. As an atheist, I’d have not voted for that to be my competing message. And it seems to me that the Constitution doesn’t insure that any cockamamie religious message can go up in the public square, but that NONE belong there.
To be honest worshiping the Sun would make more sense than worshiping a character from an ancient book of fables.
I’m with @downtide here.
You can honour and celebrate without worshipping. The only thing that defines an atheist is that they do not believe in any kind of deity. That doesn’t mean they don’t hold anyting sacred.
Sides, we know the Sun is real, so people can certainly celebrate it if they wish. It isn’t the same as worshiping it.
“Celebrate” does not equal “pray” or “worship”. If you celebrate Thanksgiving, you’re not praying to it or worshiping it. ;)
Even atheists must have faith in something even if that is something is themselves. But if you only have faith in yourself what sort of a person are you?
Why would a atheist pray to anything?
@1TubeGuru, “Atheist” is just a label, not a MRI. I’m sure many atheists are as ambivalent about their non-beliefs as theists are about their beliefs.
@flutherother “Even atheists must have faith in something even if that is something is themselves. But if you only have faith in yourself what sort of a person are you?”
Is this a variant on the old “non-believers can’t have morals” argument?
It might be worth noting that atheist ≠ non-religious. There are atheistic religions, such as Jainism.
@flutherother That would be the fallacy of equivocation. The sort of faith one has in oneself is not the same as religious faith.
I’m worshiping a dead turkey right now. Part of the ritual is to stuff the dead bird with seasoned bread cubes and veggies and cover his wings in tin foil. Then I step back, kneel in front of the hot stove, bow before the beast and make a burnt offering of him.
It’s a very holi day. The one day a year I eat meat. Very important to my “faith” as an atheist.
Convection oven Roasting guideline for fresh/thawed turkey
(open pan, lowest Rack position)
Cooking Method Cooking Temperature Weight Unstuffed Estimated Cooking Time Weight Stuffed Estimated Cooking Time
Roast 300° F 14 – 18 lbs. 2¼ to 2½ hrs. 14 – 18 lbs. 2½ to 3 hrs.
Roast 300° degrees F 18 – 22 lbs. 2½ to 3 hrs. 18 – 22 lbs. 3 hrs. to 3½ hrs.
Other hints:
1. Roast the turkey in center of the lowest rack so the top of the turkey is centered in the oven. If two racks are used, place turkey on the lowest or middle rack. When baking with two pans, position them in opposite corners of the oven and not directly over each other.
2. No basting is necessary. If using a special sauce or marinade, only baste during the last hour of cooking.
3. Hot air must circulate for even heat distribution. For best results, allow 1–½ to 2 inches of space around the turkey, including other pans and oven walls.
4. Avoid opening the oven door frequently, as heat loss will increase roasting times.
5. Wings and drumsticks may brown more quickly; covering with foil will prevent over browning.
6. If tenting turkey with foil to reduce surface browning, be sure the foil is secured so it doesn’t blow around and impair the fan action.
Amen
@Darth_Algar I think non- believers can have morals. I was thinking more of “If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I?”
@flutherother But again, that has nothing to do with faith in any religious sense. The only reason to use that word as you did is to deceive.
Who am I FOR? Is that what religion is about. Could have fooled me.
And if I’m not religious I have to be FOR ME?
This is foolishness.
Why is one of the topics for this question “Protest”
@MadMadMax Because the banner was put up as part of a protest against public display of a Nativity scene.
@flutherother I never suspected that it was aimed at me.
@flutherother You think that kind of mindset is somehow exclusive to atheists?
@Darth_Algar No, I take people as I find them and whether they are atheists or not in my experience doesn’t have any bearing on their character.
@SavoirFaire I am not trying to deceive anyone and I don’t know where that idea came from.
@flutherother My point is that your original statement is deceptive. It equivocates on the word “faith,” and is thus misleading. You do not have to intend any deception or equivocation in order for it to be deceptive or equivocal. Indeed, many people propagate bad arguments precisely because the first person they deceived was themselves.
“How can Atheists offer prayers..” stop right there, no? How can atheists offer prayers of any sort?
Does it make sense? What’s a prayer if not an invocation to a higher power?
Prayer is not necessarily an invocation to a higher being. Buddhists, for example, may pray to “deities” but they understand that these “deities” are simply mental constructs (Buddhism effectively being an atheistic religion, as the Buddha held the question of god/s to be irrelevant to what he was teaching), and thus prayer is essentially a mental exercise.
In effect then, Buddhists, Hindus and several others believe ultimately that all is God. Then “praying” to deities or anything else is in some sense praying to oneself.
In that case I’d call it the same as the sorts of meditation where one seeks the God within.
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