Who wants to help make the Bible more Conservative?

As if there wasn’t enough absurdity in the world already, the conservative taliban wants to make things even worse??? How sick.

But it seems like there is an inherent contradiction in this initiative. On the one hand, they want to “purify” the bible to meet their philosophical imperatives. That’s what they live for – to promote theocracy. I get that.

But on the other hand, these are conservatives who believe in original sources of the Bible. How do they square their own rewriting of against the fact that the Bible has been handed down and understood in a particular way for centuries?

Isn’t this the same sort of ‘activism’ that the supreme court has been doing when they strike down established precedent to meet a partisan goal?

Hypocrisy appears to be reaching new heights (or depths…)

A special bible for mean people LOL

It’s not new. King James had the bible translated to include a paragraph supporting “The Divine Right of Kings.”

It’s a fantasy; always has been.

I’m not sure this is proper. I have sent a note to my muse. I have a distinct feeling that they are usurping her initiative.

If you liked this story, you might like the stories linked to at http://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion.

“Let the little children bow to me and wear their finest robes in my presence.”

Romans 13 needs a serious makeover. “Comrade” Paul sounds like he’s making a case for Big Government:

“Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves…For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good…Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience…This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.”

Maybe something more like: “Let everyone be subject to the free market, for God is the ‘invisible hand’ that guides it. The market forces were established by God. Consequently, whoever regulates the markets is rebelling against what God has instituted, and will bring judgment upon themselves. Therefore it is necessary to get out of the way of the free market, not just because you want to get rich, but because Adam Smith said it’s the moral thing to do. That is also why you pay lobbyists, for the authorities spend all their time trying to screw things up. ”

Well, it’s already been re-written, translated and interpreted quite a bit, which is why some of us don’t take it literally.

@thorninmud – Apparently Romans 13 was not translated by the Tea Party – they still believe in paying taxes: http://conservapedia.com/Romans_9-16_(Translated)#Chapter_13

The virgin pregnancy was actually the result of an unholy alliance betwixed Mary & the donkey on which she rode. That’s right, Jesusessesss daddy was in fact an ass, has potential anyway.

Well, we all know that if we fail to toil, like the lily in the field, we will not find peace, we will find poverty. I wish it were true and we could all be lilies. lol

The entire raison d’etre of Conservapedia is to Conservative-wash whatever they set their sights on. It is meant to be a Conservative version of Wikipedia, so that Conservatives’ delicate eyes can be protected from ideas that are not slanted in their direction. It surprises me if it took this long for them to start in on the bible.

Jesus slept.

L-O-V-E

The virgin birth came out of the “cult of the virgin” in the middle ages. The idea got started around 2nd century AD. There is nothing about a virgin birth in the bible.

The Ten Commandments to be known henceforward as ‘The Komandments’ will read thus:

1. I, Andy Schlafly, am the Lord Thy God, thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make any graven image (unless it is of Andy Schlafly).
3. Thou shalt not take the name of Andy Schlafly in vain
4. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy
5. Honour thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shalt kill if I tell you to.
7. Thou shalt not be caught committing adultery.
8. Stealing from the poor to give to the rich is fine.
9. You can lie about your neighbour if he is not one of us.
10. Thou shall covet.

Not I. It’s too troublesome in it’s present form so why make it worse? And who could say that any translation was totally correct and not alluded to in any way other than what was originally meant before the translators got their hooks into it and translated into whatever version a person might now hold to?

The Bible just need to be understood more, and if one doesn’t he/she should ask of the Spirit for understanding. The Bible has been translated into many versions. Some versions do lose something in translation or parts gets watered down in their meaning; the real meat is still there. It will not change Christ any way it goes, you can write a Bible that says it is OK to skin and road anyone who has had sex with a child, or stab in the heart anyone who has bullied another, but it won’t have any real power for God has not anointed it.

“The Bible just need to be understood more, and if one doesn’t he/she should ask of the Spirit for understanding. ”

Whose interpretation is “correct?” It was stories passed from ear to ear by nomads for generations before anyone every put it down and then most of them are borrowed from earlier religions.

One person says this part is literal but this part is symbolic. What nonsense. We can’t even sit in a circle and whisper a sentence into each others ears without it coming out totally different – and that’s not over a thousand years.

@Hypocrisy_Central – WHY does the bible need to be understood more?

It’s a work of fiction, like Gone With The Wind. Unless I’m taking a course on literature, it doesn’t need to be understood…

Whose interpretation is “correct?”
That would be God’s. To a dying generation it makes no sense how people can keep the account straight, compared to God the smartest human is an amoeba next to a Mensa top ranked scholar. The comparison to what God knows and what we know can’t even be fathomed.

@Hypocrisy_Central – what is god’s interpretation? Are you suggesting that god talks to each of us directly, and that we should each interpret god’s laws individually? Talk about a huge number of disparate beliefs!!!

Or are you saying we should listen to clergy for god’s laws interpreted? OK, which clergy from which religion?

The problem with what you wrote above “it would be god’s” is that we don’t all hear the same thing.

^ Believe it or not, all of your questions have an anwer, when I am done wrapping I will PM you with the answers (not that you would accept them), you asked so please take the time to read all of the answers. :-)

@Hypocrisy_Central God’s?

Reminds me of an old saying my mother liked to use: “God only knows but he ain’t tellin’.”

LOL It seems like such a silly idea that a omnipotent being would give a damn really.

Let’s face it, “conservative” is about preserving existing values. That’s actually what the word means. So “Thou Shalt Not Lie.” suggests to me I better avoid the obvious lie of calling biblical revisionists of this ilk “conservative”.

But thanks to modern ingenuity our right-wing revolutionary regressive friends can now put their kind of Christ into Christmas, by picking up a video copy of Jesus Rebranded. No, boring, time-consuming reading necessary. Appreciation to the original source, The Daily Kos for helping the poor, miserable industry tycoons and billionaires bear the burden of their tough lives in this holiday season.

I’m all for their going back to the original ancient Aramaic, Greek, and Hebrew texts and starting over from scratch. There will be a lot of eye-openers in there since what we have now has been changed so many times down through the centuries, it very seldom resembles the original texts.

@MadMadMax LOL It seems like such a silly idea that a omnipotent being would give a damn really.
Kinda sounds as if you ask question of it and that you really have your mind made up and don’t care for an answer, I could be wrong, but that is how it sounds to me. Did I misinterpret your rhetorical question?

@Hypocrisy_Central That… wasn’t a question, rhetorical or otherwise.

@Hypocrisy_Central Could you just post how we are supposed to be able to find out what would be God’s actual meaning as opposed to what might be in a Bible? I’m very curious.

Full disclosure: I nowadays consider myself to be an atheist, but am genuinely interested if you would be able to provide a compelling answer.

@Vincentt Could you just post how we are supposed to be able to find out what would be God’s actual meaning as opposed to what might be in a Bible?
I do not know at what growth your field is, that is, how much you know of The Way, so I will try to keep it very beige. To understand the Bible you do need to understand or study a bit about the culture that it was written in and the times it was written in. That will allow you to have a context of how and why certain things were done the way they were done. From there you need to crack your Word open and read the scriptures; just about every scripture I have ever read backs itself up in another part of the Bible. This it the hard part most do not want to do or avoid like AIDS, praying to the Spirit to open up your spiritual eyes because it won’t make sense to think of it in the carnal mind. It would be as if we could speak to lions and try to convince them why they should not eat the young of other species they catch slipping at the watering hole. The lion would not see anything wrong in it because that is their nature to do so. Serving others expecting no repayment, fame., glory, etc. is not what is natural to man.

@Hypocrisy_Central – You forgot to mention to @Vincentt that different bibles were translated at different times. For example, the King James was translated in about 1650. That time frame, and the influence of the translators, and the man who was then pope, makes a huge difference in how the translation was done, and what the translation ended up saying. There were many other books that could have been included in any or all translations, but were denied entry into the final editions of the Bibles by the translators.

@Hypocrisy_Central So your omniscient, omnipotent God is helpless to control how things change or to write a book that can be understood cross culturally and apply to all times, even though he knows everything that ever has or will happen. And drop the special pleading of fallible men messing up the writing. Omnipotence rules that possibility out.

@ETpro So your omniscient, omnipotent God is helpless to control how things change or to write a book that can be understood cross culturally and apply to all times, even though he knows everything that ever has or will happen.
He never lost His sovereignty because He allows thing to happen due to the free will of men. Some minor parts of the Bible didn’t or can’t be translated completely into English, as well as many other slang or idioms in English cannot fully be envisioned in other languages. The guts are still intact, to those who really want to know. Some translators are sloppy that is why you have to compare versions against each other, and do your due diligence to learn how, or what sources they came by the translation they have.

@Hypocrisy_Central Yada, Yada, Yada. That sort of illogic is why it’s pointless to try to discuss logic with the religiously indoctrinated.

There are more than 200 Christian denominations in the USA alone. In some, salvation is by works alone. Others claim immersion baptism gets it done, and nothing short. Still others say you’re eventually in if you get holy water sprinkled on your head as an infant and have the right incantation said during the sprinkling. And there’s those that say it’s predestination alone. And others have it as confessing the Lord Jesus as savior, even if you do that in your dying moments after the most egregious life of sin imaginable. So as clear as you claim this book of yours is to those like you who are in the know, it looks like a lot of you are going to get left out because they can’t read it right.

^ And others have it as confessing the Lord Jesus as savior, even if you do that in your dying moments after the most egregious life of sin imaginable.
At least some people you spoke with read and understood the Bible. Maybe you ought to listen to them and just smile at the rest, if you won’t tell them to go read their Bible more closely with the Spirit leading.

I am sure everybody here is familiar with Pascal’s Wager, but one possibility it overlooks is denying yourself the pleasures of life (thus losing the mortal side) in order to live a life of prayer and sacrifice in a manner that displeases God (thus losing the eternal side badly).

I take great comfort in knowing that, if there is a Hell, many of the uber-Conservatives are probably headed there. And if it turns out they were right, then Heaven is no place I’d want to be anyways.

@jerv Agreed. A lot of the Christians I choose not to hang out with use Pascal’s Wager to justify their beliefs while not denying themselves anything at all. Of course, most of those same people are the ones mad about SSM, too.

I don’t really understand the Pascal’s Wager thing. Wouldn’t it get tiring trying to figure out exactly which interpretation of which religion is the most logical bet to hedge? I suppose that explains why so many people hedge their bets with the religion they happened to be born into.

@Seek_Kolinahr Pretty much, yeah. They aren’t fun people because they do what they want and judge others for doing the same.

@jerv I am sure everybody here is familiar with Pascal’s Wager, but one possibility it overlooks is denying yourself the pleasures of life (thus losing the mortal side) in order to live a life of prayer and sacrifice in a manner that displeases God (thus losing the eternal side badly). Who says you can’t have an abundant live serving the Lord? What am I denying by myself helping other people who are less fortunate, not being selfish, greedy, arrogant, full of rage and malice, not caught in love triangles because I can’t be satisfied with one person, stealing from others risking jail, picking up STDs are littering the county with bastard babies because I can’t keep in in my pants or stay faithful, or losing family, job, and home because I can’t stay sober enough to hold down a job, or attend to relationships, how am I losing out not wading in that, which is where I see most people I know in the world ”enjoying themselves” are?

@Hypocrisy_Central I don’t think that’s what jerv meant, but maybe I’m wrong. I took it to mean living a Christian life ‘in a manner that displeases God’, like maybe following the wrong rules or sect?

Keep pounding on those straw men, Hypo.

^ Keep bowing to those idol men~

@Hypocrisy_Central Different denominations have different rules. Not all are like your take on Christianity.

I don’t know why I still allow myself to be shocked by your extremely uncharitable view of non-Christians, @Hypocrisy_Central, but it gets me every single time. I am an atheist, and I know a lot of other atheists, and none of us lead these bizarrely vice-filled lives you ascribe to us. Not one. It is pure fantasy on your part.

I think you might want to ease up on the whole “not being selfish, greedy, arrogant, full of rage” tack, @Hypocrisy_Central. You’re certainly coming across as ‘selfish, arrogant and full of rage’ to me.

@KNOWITALL Correct.

@Hypocrisy_Central Virtually every staujch, fire-breathing Christian I talk to claims to have read and understood the same book you’re reading, and they swear the spirit of God guided them to their understanding of it. Yet they still have thousands of different interpretations of what it says. I listen to The Atheist Experience from time to time. It’s a live, public access call in TV show based in Austin, TX. They constantly deal with incredibly sincere Christian believers who all claim to have read and understood the same book you’re reading, and they all also swear the spirit of God guided them to their understanding of it. And yet they come up with the same plethora of interpretations that those I speak with or debate with do. Maybe, just maybe, you guys have a bit of personal confirmation bias going on. You believe what you were raised to believe pretty much like the Muslim believes what he was raised to believe and the Hindu his native teachings.

Rationality and epistemology are real things. Each has a definition. Some ideas are rational by those definitions, and others are not supported by the required weight of evidence. And hand waving to avoid rational conclusions is pretty well understood as well.

Now everybody, I think @Hypocrisy_Central is just trying to live a Christian life the way he knows how.

The thing I found when I first came here is that it is hard to admit that perhaps I was raised to believe certain thing’s that don’t make sense to any of you, or to myself sometimes, which is why we have to continue learning.

It is weird to think that I was indoctrinated in to my faith as a child and didn’t question much until my late teens. I’m a better person because of my faith, and I think that is what @Hypocrisy_Central is trying to say. We are better people because of our belief, and we know this is true for us.

@Seek_Kolinahr – It’s easy to understand Pascal’s Wager, really. Just believe in God no matter what you might think and you’ll have all of your bets covered. Pascal was obviously a believer! Who else would have come up with such a “wager?”

I guess I am an atheist and I have lived a life so devoid of what Christians and other religions would find “sinful” its almost boring.

I don’t know any nonbelievers who are anything like the accusations of the average Christian.

I have come to believe that Christians need to demonize those who just plain aren’t interested in their belief system. If they don’t make us look bad then their own “sin obsessed” religious beliefs kind fall short.

@kritiper Which god?

Even if we only break it down to the Christian god, do we believe in the Catholic god (a good life and a nice Act of Contrition is enough to get you to Heaven), or the Pentecostal god (very specific steps must be followed during lifetime in order to even have a shot at confronting a list of technicalities at Heaven’s gate.)

^ Or, you know, any of the 22,000 other denominational deities, all of whom have their own set of requirements.

@MadMadMax I truly believe some people don’t need the structure or the accountability of religion to be good people, I know a lot of them.

Accusations of the average Christian? Like being rude or belittling? Like serial killers? Of course that kind of person exists, and some may even think they are Christians doing the Lord’s work, like bombing abortion clinics.

@Seek_Kolinahr – The god Pascal believed in, I’d wager. It applies to any and all gods in my opinion. I don’t see that it matters which god as I think Pascal meant for it to mean any and all gods (when applicable) where there is a promise of heaven and an afterlife.

@glacial I am an atheist, and I know a lot of other atheists, and none of us lead these bizarrely vice-filled lives you ascribe to us. Not one. It is pure fantasy on your part.
So you are ready to go on record to say that none of the atheist you know or met has ever gotten mad and flipped anyone off on the freeway, never cheated on a spouse, never cheated by doctoring their tax return to get more money, or taken more free stuff than they were supposed, picked grapes etc. at the supermarket and ate them without paying, and never lied? What next, you are going to say you never done any of that either? I guess we should make everyone atheist and the whole world can sit in harmony singing Kumbaya then.I don’t know where the fantasy is, but it isn’t here, or with those believers I fellowship with.

@MadMadMax I have come to believe that Christians need to demonize those who just plain aren’t interested in their belief system.
I am not demonizing anyone, not you, or anyone else, here or elsewhere. It seems that people, certainly here, are better at demonizing people. If you are a believer around here it is best not to let anyone know it for you will be branded some zealot, whackado, or brainwashed minion. I just tell people what they can have as oppose to what they are going to get as written in the Word; they are free to do what they wish with their soul, Christ certainly allows them to.

When even I notice a thread going downhill, it may be time to just end it and walk away. I sense nothing good can come from this.

@Hypocrisy_Central Now, now – you’ve added more items to the list you left us above. That’s not playing fair, but I will nonetheless admit that I have lied, have gotten mad, have flipped off a few people on the highway. Are you willing to say that Christians never do those things? I’m going to say that I have not a single doubt that many Christians absolutely do those things.

But the rest of it?

selfish – no, I would not say that describes me.
greedy – again, no.
arrogant – perhaps on my worst days, but I would not say it is a trait people associate with me.
full of rage and malice – nope.
caught in love triangles – never.
can’t be satisfied with one person – never had that problem.
stealing from others risking jail – nope.
picking up STDs – not one, sorry.
littering the county with bastard babies – charming image, but nope.
can’t keep in in my pants or stay faithful – nope, never been unfaithful.
losing family, – all still accounted for.
job, – never.
and home – never.
can’t stay sober – nope, that’s not me, either.

I’ll add the remaining items from your new list for good measure:

cheated on a spouse, – we covered that; no.
never cheated by doctoring their tax return to get more money, – nope, never.
taken more free stuff than they were supposed, – not even sure what this means
picked grapes etc. at the supermarket and ate them without paying – never.

I’m sorry, @Hypocrisy_Central, but we atheists are mainly, as someone said above, quite a boring lot. Just like most Christians are. Do you suppose that maybe, just maybe – one’s character and behaviour have nothing whatsoever to do with what their faith is or isn’t?

If you won’t believe that, how do you suppose I ended up being such a failure at vice? Please tell me where I went wrong. I’m so far behind that at this rate I’ll never litter the county with bastard babies – perhaps with your help, I can catch up.

@glacial I’m going to say that I have not a single doubt that many Christians absolutely do those things.
Yes, I would say more than a few Christian or believers fall to those too, if we were perfect why would we need Christ? We are humans and it is inbred, part of our nature, though many would argue differently.

If you won’t believe that, how do you suppose I ended up being such a failure at vice?
you might live a fairly beige life, but you said ”I am an atheist, and I know a lot of other atheists, and none of us lead these bizarrely vice-filled lives you ascribe to us” It certainly sounded to me as you are speaking for other atheist, and I am saying if so, you know for fact no other atheist you know does any of those things? I would go so far as to say you are saying atheist are so upstanding none has ever gone to prison too?

I’m so far behind that at this rate I’ll never litter the county with bastard babies – perhaps with your help, I can catch up.
Sorry, there is no way I could help you with that, even if I had experience, which I do not.

@Hypocrisy_Central I am not going to tick off your list with the names of my friends and acquaintances for your reference, but I was truthful when I said “none of us lead these bizarrely vice-filled lives you ascribe to us.” And as far as I know, I do not know anyone who has been in prison – either atheist or not.

Again, I think these differences in experience are simply not down to religion. I think they are mainly down to socio-economic factors. If you grew up where I am, you would likely know fewer people who have been in jail. Frankly, it’s less likely that you’d be a born-again Christian, too.

But look – a lot of this is me taking the time to knock down your straw man. What I would prefer, and what I am trying to get at, is that you should know better than to throw up this straw man in the first place. You say that the choice is between living a life in Christ or being the type of person who does or would do all of the horrible things you describe in these lists. And what I am saying is that this choice is a fabrication. It is a misdirection, a falsehood. And I wish that you would stop doing it, because it is an insult to me and to many who I hold dear. Please stop it.

@glacial If you grew up where I am, you would likely know fewer people who have been in jail. Frankly, it’s less likely that you’d be a born-again Christian, too.
I will just say this; I am so glad I didn’t grow up there.
What I would prefer, and what I am trying to get at, is that you should know better than to throw up this straw man in the first place.
If I were throwing straw men, but how can I in the face of false gods who cannot see, nor speak, nor move?

You say that the choice is between living a life in Christ or being the type of person who does or would do all of the horrible things you describe in these lists
I did not say it was exclusive, I was saying what I would be missing since it is believed that serving The Living God, is somehow depriving me of happiness, you speak OF INSULT, THAT IS An insult to me as to say living in the world of sin is more fulfilling than a life of service to God.

And what I am saying is that this choice is a fabrication. It is a misdirection, a falsehood.
Oh really? Are you following Christ or something else? If you are not following Christ than you have a choice and you made what you wanted. If you had no choice you would be to serve God without any choice to do anything else. With that, have a nice day,—unless something is said so ridiculous that I have to bring a broom to clean it up, less someone get mislead by redacted.

@kritiper But the God Pascal placed his bets on said in Deuteronomy 6: “14; You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you, 15; for the LORD your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; otherwise the anger of the LORD your God will be kindled against you, and He will wipe you off the face of the earth.”

Now man has posited at least 3,000 Gods during historic periods, and who knows how many more before writing was invented to record the event? Pascal’s wager demands you place your bet on the right one, and that the one you choose actually exists, and that you worship him in exactly the right way—a way that sectarians of all the great faiths hotly dispute among themselves.

I’m far more comfortable living as morally as I can and trusting that if there really is a creator sitting in judgement of me, and he’s never bothered to reveal himself in any unambiguous way to humanity to let us know how we actually should please him, my efforts to do unto others as I would have them do unto me will be enough. Go off on most any of the tangents these various purported deities require, and you MUST depart from the Golden Rule.

@ETpro – As far as I care, he might have just as well meant them all, singularly or in combinations. The whole concept of his wager is, to me, a joke. To believe just in case God does exist so you can be saved.
As to your passage from Deuteronomy, it is very possibly just another power play addition from the translators to give the church (or churches) the power from the fear of God’s supposed jealous wrath to control the masses to get the money they needed to continue their high-living lifestyles. Religious fear-mongering propaganda, nothing else.
Your angle about the Golden Rule is just that: yours. I need no God to live in fear of to be a decent person.

^ You’re preaching to the choir, honey.

@kritiper Yep, @Seek_Kolinahr is correct. I’m a fellow atheist. When I quote scripture it is to show how this or that claim based on the infallibility of The Bible is fundamentally flawed. Just wanted to make sure we had on the table at least a bit of what was absurd about Pascal’s wager.

@ETpro – Thanks for clearing that up.

I was aware of this campaign since many enemies of our survival after death research (from another site I’m on) are actually religionists, and we talk about religious issues all of the time. This doesn’t surprise me since there’s evidence the Bible had been tampered with long before. Most religious ‘gods’ are actually nothing more than the type of culture religionists at the time wanted to force people to be a part of, and this obviously shows itself even today. If the Bible isn’t conservative enough (scary thought) why don’t these right wingers just move to an island and paint everything on it black and white?

I think they just want this island, and intend to make everyone else like it, or move off themselves.

This ‘us’ and ‘they’ is what is divisive and immature on both sides of the issue.

I’ve said thing’s I regret and I feel things have been said to me that are out of line, and there are others who have said the same thing on both sides as well.

The problem is that both sides SEEM to want everyone and everything to reflect THEIR beliefs. Like Republicans and Democrats, dog people versus cat people, etc… My point is you can’t force people to think like you, or to think at all, or to be kind or even to be civil. Perhaps a little honey with your facts would be more effective, I know I get turned off as soon I start being disrespected, and I bet some of you do, too.

@KNOWITALL As a practicing Christian, do you find it disrespectful that this group of people has chosen to re-write the Bible to suit their political agenda?

@Seek_Kolinahr Well ‘practicing’ for me is debateable since I don’t attend church for various reasons, but I do practice the directives of Jesus as best I can in this world, and obey God’s commandments.

Semantics aside, yes, I find the idea ridiculous & disrespectful, and am not sure what they are making these changes based on (original translations, God’s directive, what?). The examples in the article were idiotic imo.

@Seek_Kolinahr I don’t know any Christians that would DARE to change a word in the Bible unless God Himself came down and told them to. That’s a pretty big deal to change words written by your Deity without His permission right?!

Hey, you know how I was raised. Using the NEW King James Version instead of the King James Version was enough for your argument to be considered invalid. It was the rule of my church that the last time God inspired a change of the Bible was during the reign of King James.