Is the military a good career choice for someone lacking direction?
I am referring to my nephew, who I mentioned in a previous question. As a quick recap, my nephew is a 23 year old college dropout sharing a building that my brother describes as squalid with a bunch of college students he does not share much in common with and who he does not care much for. He is working at minimum wage as a waiter. He has largely cut himself off from the rest of the family. He did not send a card or call my brother for my brother’s birthday. He hates his life but will not get professional help, which my brother has offered to pay for. When my brother offered to pay the difference for moving into better quarters, my nephew’s response was that my brother should find the place for him.
Maybe what my nephew is lacking is self-discipline, the ability to recognize a problem, formulate a plan and then act on it. This is where the military comes in. I am making the assumption that it is possible to find a guaranteed stateside non-combat position. The military would remove the need to make a lot of decisions. It would provide a place to stay, take care of meals and provide heath care. My nephew is not stupid and he looked fit and trim the last time I saw him a little over a year ago. He has an interest in music and has fiddled with an electronic music mixer. There must be a position in electronics that he could be trained in that would provide employment if and when he decided to leave the military.
There are a lot of anecdotes about people whose lives were turned around by joining the military. My nephew’s political views are on the conservative side of the spectrum, so he does not share my knee-jerk 60’s-child aversion to anything military. Could this be the solution to his problems?
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even becoming a professional shop lifter would be more honourable than becoming a soldier
I didn’t join the military, though I was a college drop out with no sense of direction. It may have helped me, and certainly would have be preferable to what I did for a few years. In these times where the military is being over used, I would hesitate to encourage anyone to do that.
What did get me through those times was the incredible support of my family. Not financial, other than living in my parents house till I was 22, but encouragement and understanding.
It would help with the discipline and direction, but our government is treating the military and the veterans so badly right now I’d hesitate to suggest that path. We send a guy on a mission, s/he gets wounded and we treat them like crap? That’s disgusting.
Why would the military pay for housing, education, health care and all kinds of benefits to not have a soldier? It seems you are thinking of something like a civil service job, which your nephew would take a test for and compete with people with good experience, education and who score high on the test and interview well. That would provide salary and benefits but not housing.
I do recall on the other question, most people told you to stop the anxiety and lectures and to leave him alone.
If he is drug free and capable of following direction it may be good for him, hard to say not knowing him or his respect for authority, etc… You either hate it or love it usually, so there’s a 50/50 chance.
I suggest suggesting to your nephew that he take a Meyers/Briggs personality inventory to find out his personality style/preferences and job/career aptitude.
The majority of military personnel are ISTJ types that thrive or duty, rigid routine, repetitive tasks. Sensor/judging traits are well suited to military duty.
I am an ENTP, and intuitive perceivers are the creatives, innovators, free spirited unconventional types.
A certain lack of discipline is common and “normal” for intuitive/percievers, as it is for young people in general. I am not a fan of the military at all, a necessary evil yes, but certainly not something I would try to force on another. I encourage a personality assessment as the best guide for a good employment fit.
The military would be a very BAD fit for this temperament
” I am making the assumption that it is possible to find a guaranteed stateside non-combat position. ”
Read all the fine print. This is not something you want to get wrong in today’s America.
@Coloma Great idea. Mine says I should have been law enforcement or military…lol
@KNOWITALL I think it is an invaluable tool for self and other understanding and finding the best fit for all relationships, work and otherwise. :-)
@ragingloli, My personal view of the military is not far from yours, but I recognize that my personal preference may not be entirely rational. Some day the world may turn its swords into ploughshares, but until then soldiers will be a necessity.
@filmfann, The extended family is more than willing to provide support, but we have been cut off.
@Coloma, I like the idea of taking the test, but maybe we are painting military positions with too broad a brush. The military did develop radar and DARPA invented the internet.
@glacial, Your point is well taken, but with fewer troops in Afghanistan and with the military viewing a leaner and meaner posture, there may be a lot of opportunity for non-combat positions.
I believe the only military personnel who are guaranteed non-combat positions are those in the President’s Own band.
Could it help for him to join the military? Maybe. Could it totally fuck him over for life? The chances are probably better for this than the former.
Any non combat positions are likely to go to soldiers who are back from a tour and in need of a job so they could complete their contracted obligation. Someone who already knows the military and how it works. If you think someone without an education, skills or training is going to be handed a position with benefits, housing and money, you have wishful thinking big time.
Yes.
I know many people, including myself, who were “turned around” by joining the military.
And I would not bother with the Meyers/Briggs stuff -For better or for worse the military is different than anything in a civilian environment.
It is only a good thing if you let it be a good thing. You have to decide upfront if you want to subordinate yourself to a team effort. You also have to decide up front if you are willing to be judged solely on your ability to do a job well, and nothing else. People who think they deserve judgment based on anything else will not make it.
@LostInParadise Well..I am not military savvy and certainly some creative types, usually IP’s can find a fit, in engineering or other creative tasks, but, in general, creatives that thrive best in flexible environments are not going to be happy with military rules, regulations, protocol and rigid adherence to such. Aptitude testing is the best way to proceed, it took me 40 years to discover that I am the perfect me, and hence, have quit trying to fit my square peg into round holes. lol
Lack of direction is the reason most young boys join the military, I’d say. No goals? Join the military! What 23-year-old boy really gives a shit about defending his country?
It doesn’t seem so much as lack of direction as much as it is lack of caring for anything. His father has offered help, he has been given suggestions, why do you think he’d join the military?
Joining the military isn’t for some magical soul searching discovery of oneself. It’s for people who are internally motivated to figure things out by doing some hard work. Your nephew doesn’t sound like he is close to that yet.
So don’t suggest it unless he asks for advice.
I’d have to disagree with @zenvelo. I have known quite a few who find a sense of direction and purpose in the military and turn their lives completely around. Sometimes when life seems overwhelming and with so many choices, you just need a push in the right direction. It’s not like he’s signing up for life. Better than lounging in squalor if you ask me.
@Cupcake , @jca, The cost to the military to train new recruits should not be all that great. Housing on the base should be fairly inexpensive. Food and health costs should also be fairly low. In certain areas, it may be more cost effective to train from within rather than hire contractors. Additionally, the military has the right to relocate soldiers at will.
This is something I will have to look into.
@josie (and others who have been in the military) What are the repercussions if it is not a good fit? As you mention it is as good a thing as you make of it so what if someone with serious authority issues joins up with the intent on overcoming them and finds out they cannot overcome their dislike of being told what./how/when to do something? Is there an out clause or does it come down to possible brig time and a dishonorable discharge?
Two points: didn’t most people advise you on the other thread to butt out? Second point: if the military were housing people for free and paying them for no skills, don’t you think word would be out by now?
@rojo
I know your question is well intentioned, but…
What do mean “cannot” overcome their dislike of being told what to do.
Like I said before, it is a decision. Certainly anybody who says to themselves “I simply will never take orders” is going to wash out. Anybody who says “I understand that I will be taking orders from day one, and I may not love the idea, but I will do it anyway” will be OK.
Nobody, unless they are psychotic, is incapable of making that kind of choice, even if it is a difficult one to make
Let’s face it, the military can take a person who never even thought about firing a weapon, and train them to kill. Nobody accepts that kind of training against their will.
Anyway, if you fail basic training, you don’t get put in prison. You get sent home. And you get to tell people you just couldn’t handle a little bit of bullshit.
@josie Thanks, I guess “will not” would have been more appropriate.
What I meant was if a kid, knowing he has these kind of issues, sees the military as a way to breach them but finds out after signing up that he actually will not modify his own behavior is there an honorable way out? And I guess that is partially what basic is for, to weed out those who are not military material, correct? Is there not stigma involved with failing basic?
Do the entrance tests also help keep the, for lack of a better term, dropout rate to a minimum?
@rojo
The failure rate is, between 10 and 15% in basic training.
There is only stigma to the extent that, if it ever comes up, you have to admit that you flunked out of what is really no more than a good work out, and an introduction to personal and organizational discipline. It is basic training, where most people are out of shape and clueless anyway.
It isn’t like SEAL or Recon training, where you have to be extraordinary.
Your description of your nephew could have been applied to me at that age. I did join the military and it was beneficial to me.
I would advise against it at this time. The way the military has been overused and abused the last 10–12 years makes it not as appealing as it was when I joined.
There are jobs in the military that will be more likely to keep you in rear areas than others, but WTSHTF all soldiers are considered expendable.
I did 5½ years in the Navy, and I didn’t have any direction until about 15 years after I got out. I do, however, have more issues with authority that I did as a teen, and (thanks to the academic rigors of Nuke school) a fear of classroom environments that precludes the possibility of ever going to college.
While it can be good for some people, it can also be a very bad thing.
I tried applying for the military , in Canada; They don’t want someone else’s trash… They want the best. The most in shape, the highest scores in high school, the completed degree, the second language., a clean bill of health, no criminal record. All that takes direction. I didn’t get in with a I.Q. of 216 , because I was out of shape and I was looking for an escape from my fathers rule, and I messed my knee up in high school. That was in 1995 when I was 18, I tried again in 2013 and I got a no thank you letter, I wanted to be a cook with a mental illness.
My similarly directionless brother entered the military at age 21, for lack of anything else to look forward to and no other way to provide for himself.
He graduated boot camp and was stationed in Korea as a helicopter mechanic. In a fairly short time he broke his femur and destroyed his knee during a parachuting exercise, and ended up with an arm crushed and shredded when someone else dropped an engine part on him. During recovery after the second incident, they diagnosed him as bipolar, then discharged him due to his mental health status.
Since mediocre helicopter mechanics aren’t in high demand, and he is now completely incapable of manual labor due to his leg and arm injuries, he’s found himself at 25 years old, still directionless, now with a fiancee and a baby girl, and trying to fumble his way through a too-expensive arts school that’s going to saddle him with another useless career certificate and about $80,000 in student loan debt.
@Seek_Kolinahr Now I don’t feel as bad never making it to the army. I’m sorry for your brother, the VA is backlogged with files of veterans needing basic help.
Your nephew has to sit down and write out the goals he has for his life and then elaborate on what he must do to achieve those goals. After that he must set to work, step by step to complete the steps necessary for him to achieve his goals. Nobody can do this for him but they can encourage and support his efforts. People in his life must avoid making it too easy and comfortable to continue doing nothing with his life. That’s what we call enabling and it prevents him from getting started.
I completely agree, but that just gets to the heart of the problem. Although my nephew is dissatisfied with his life, he seems incapable of taking the slightest initiative toward improving things.
I looked on the Web for information and found this. It says that there is no way of guaranteeing a non-combat position. With all due respect to those who have served in the military, I therefore could not recommend joining the military to my nephew.
@LostInParadise One nice thing about the Navy. I mean, we are rarely on land, and hardly any other nation goes to sea. The few who do have anything more than a fishing trawler with a case of AK-47s in the bilge are friendly to us.
But no, if you join the military, you risk combat. That is part of the job. You don’t work at McDonalds if you can’t handle being around burgers, and you don’t join the military without risking that you’ll be in combat.
Just some branches have lower odds than others ;)
@jerv Random question: in that article LostinParadise linked, they mention that the Navy makes female recruits keep their hair cut above the collar. But you can’t tie your hair back when it’s that short, so I am having trouble picturing how these women might then keep it out of their faces during physical activity. In the pics I googled they all have their hair in tight buns, obviously after it has grown out. But what do they do till that happens? Cornrows?~
I was watching “The Inlaws” yesterday and was reminded of this discussion. Peter Falk said to Alan Arkin, in reference to working for the CIA and the benefits, the trick is not to get killed. That’s really the key to the benefit program. ”
@jca Serpentine! Serpentine!
@wildpotato It used to be that once they finish basic training they relaxed the hair rules a little bit. That is why the men don’t all have buzz cuts once they finish basic.
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