Do you think CPS was right to remove this toddler, and a couple of other kids, from the home?
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The article doesn’t say what was found on investigation that caused them to remove the kids, so how could anyone comment on whether it was right?
What the fuck?
“Yeah, so there’s this video, and nothing in it is actually “illegal”, but we’ve decided that as a police force it’s our duty to impose our own moral values on the public in order to prevent crime from happening.”
No. It’s your job to arrest criminals when you have probable cause to do so.
As far as I’m concerned, this is a free speech issue. This child was taken away because of words.
Fucking CNN. I couldn’t get past the self-righteous, censored shitfuckery of that “news” story.
What if the words had been something like “Kill the motherF****!” “Stab the motherf****!” “Shoot the motherf*****!” “Bite the mf!” Choke the mf!” “Kick the mf!” “Slap the bitch!”
Words are words. And in this country, they are protected until they demonstrate an intent to harm.
“The motherfucker” is not an actual person. “Stab your mother” is a threat. “Kill the motherfucker, slap the bitch” is rap lyrics.
Sorry, but I feel that it was totally okay for child protection to step in. Isn’t the goal to raise children with as much innocence intact as possible? To protect and cherish them and make home a ‘safe’ place?
I saw some things as a kid I shouldn’t have. To this day I still have trust issues with my mom, with men, with everyone, and some things are burned into my brain, thing’s that roll like on a videotape that no amount of therapy or life will change. If you think a kid forgets all that, the cussing the screaming the fighting the drugs, know that they don’t. You’re messing them up, they are not adults and can’t process things the same as adults. This kind of thing makes me want to go on a rampage and demand IQ tests for parents.
And yes, I know sometimes it’s funny, but long-term, it’s really harmful.
I mean, you all know me. You know how I raise my kid. So what if his favourite song is Torture Killer’s Forever Dead (link is to lyrics, not a video)? Does that mean he’s going to grow up to be a grammatically incorrect vampire? Hardly.
This is literally judging a family’s entire life based on a 30 second snippet.
Whether or not this family is ultimately determined to be fit to raise a child is moot – remember that it sets a precedent, and that from that point on the police are allowed to investigate your family based not on actual lawbreaking but on what they determine to be “moral activity”.
@Seek_Kolinahr Yeah but you know he thinks dad’s job is cool, and you’re raising him in an alternative lifestyle, and knowing you are intelligent, is a different thing to me (and I’m not judging you.)
You aren’t calling him names or belittling him or having him in a gang before he can read, you know? Basically, I don’t feel you’d put your kid in danger for any reason, and it may be 30 seconds, but it’s a hard to watch 30 seconds. Don’t you want to scoop that baby up and cuddle him instead of watching them ridicule and confuse him? He’s too young to get hard that quick.
It doesn’t matter what I want to do.
Nothing illegal occurs in that video, yet the police felt they had a right to enter the home and remove the child.
That is bad. Very, very bad.
We can’t make assumptions as we don’t know the story. I can assure you that in CPS, when you go to investigate something, the big thing is “well my neighbor/friend/so and so did such and such and this didn’t happen to them.”
We don’t know the story, we only know what is written by the media. We only know part of the story. The details are confidential, so we will probably never know. All we can do is speculate, and be wrong.
@Seek_Kolinahr I disagree. When you have a child, you are subject to drug tests in order to keep your baby. Once in school, you are subject to all kinds of legal bs if your kid has lice or behavior issues, or even kisses a little girl for fun now.
If you smoke crack at home and your kid takes a pipe to school, you just lost your kid. Same with guns or weed, whatever. Home life affects your child and can get you thrown in jail, we all know this.
But nothing illegal happened in the video. This was admitted by the police in the article.
There was no actual legal reason to investigate the family.
There was no report made on the family other than this video.
Thus, an apparently law-abiding family (because we are innocent until otherwise proven) was investigated and had their children removed from the home, because the video was deemed “immoral” by the police.
Are we allowing non-elected police officers to dictate morality and prosecute immorality these days? I missed that memo.
@Seek_Kolinahr My answer to that is that the police and child services, should ALWAYS ERR ON THE SIDE OF THE CHILD’S WELFARE. If I felt your kid was in danger, I’d call CPS on you no problem, no guilt.
I went to a funeral for an infant, it was the saddest thing I’ve ever seen in my life, that tiny little casket. Her mom was a crack head, secretly shooting up between her toes so the dad didn’t know she’d fallen into old patterns, again. She was my best friends half-sister and we partied all the time together, and we knew she was doing it, and we did nothing.
Perhaps we should just have all children removed from the mothers upon birth, and redistributed to worthy potential parents as the government sees fit. It’s all for the child’s welfare after all.
I understand it’s reducing the argument to the absurd, but arguing that it’s OK to remove a child from a family for no actual legal reason is pretty much the same thing.
@Seek_Kolinahr: It said “Nothing illegal was found IN THE VIDEO.” It also said there were safety concerns. Apparently there’s more to the story than the video.
Again, like what I wrote above, there’s more to the story than we know. More than we will ever know, than we should know. It’s not the public’s business why someone’s children were removed. We cannot make assumptions based upon an article reported by the media. Only CPS knows what all of the issues are. Even the cops are not privy to all of that, as they are only one part of the investigation.
I think that people who are so brain dead as to think it’s OK to teach a child those things are probably remiss in many other areas of their lives, so I think there is a good chance that they found something else.
But the video is what prompted the investigation.
That’s my entire point.
You can dig through someone’s house, and if you’re looking for something to bust them for, you’ll find it. But there has to be probable cause before the investigation takes place. Otherwise we are all at risk for being searched. It’s a constitutional right.
@Seek_Kolinahr: Who cares what prompted the investigation? If the child is at risk of harm the child is at risk of harm. Should they leave the child at risk of harm?
@Dutchess_III SIDS supposedly. There was a rumor Marsha doing drugs during her pregnancy, and that we did not know about. :(
@Seek_Kolinahr What do you mean ‘if you dig through someone’s house you’ll find something to bust them for’? <puzzled>
Maybe two kids of different sexes have to share a bedroom. That’s actually illegal in my state, though that only pops up in CPS investigations. Maybe you left bleach under the kitchen counter, and the cupboard door was unlocked – hazardous living conditions. Maybe you have a pit bull that doesn’t like visitors, and CPS determines you should be investigated for dogfighting.
We have the right to not have cops in our houses without probable cause.
Yes, I do care what is prompting investigations, because I have the right to care.
It’s very possible that the adults involved were already known to the police and they already had probable cause. I’m just guess though, because Seek is right.
@Seek_Kolinahr they took the kids because when they investigated the parents there were concerns for the welfare of the children. I was investigated by CPS because of an anonymous call. My children were pulled from class and interviewed by CPS workers. A worker visited and inspected my house and interviewed me. She left and the case was dropped. If the worker had found something, my children would have been taken. Aside from someone who didn’t even have the balls to say who they were, CPS had no probable cause to talk to my kids or come to my home. With the way this child was being verbally abused by these parents there was some reason for concern which led to the investigation.
This family decided to put this video out there. Just because people can put stuff like that online to share with the world doesn’t mean they should. If they do make the choice to do so, they should realize they are opening themselves up for scrutiny. Yes we all have freedom of speech and the freedom to post whatever we want online. No one is arguing that. But the reality is sometimes what we chose to post can have negative consequences. Best to use good judgement when deciding what to post. When they put stuff like that out there, the probably should have been prepared for some consequences. It is kind of like when my adorable 18 month old nephew climbed in the dog’s crate and closed the door behind him. I took photos, but had the common sense not to put them online.
So are you saying that in situations where a thief brags about their crime and shares the haul in a video posted online they shouldn’t be arrested? It seems analogous and sounds absolutely ludicrous.
FYI, I care about the safety and future of those children first and foremost, because I have the right to care.
@Seek_Kolinahr: Of course you have the right to care about anything you want to care about. As far as the investigation, CPS would not remove a child unless they had a good reason to. The article said there were safety concerns. Bleach under a kitchen counter is not a reason to remove a child. It could be hazardous but it is not a reason to remove a child.
In my state, laws for criminal investigations and laws for Child Protective issues are different. They may overlap, and they may not.
Again, we don’t know anything. We only know what the article says. We don’t have a right to know anything more, as it’s not our business.
You are talking to a 10+ year CPS worker. Believe me I have seen a lot, heard a lot, and heard all kinds of people comparing their “case” to their neighbors, friends, family, and they only know what people tell them, and they don’t tell the whole story, they tell what looks good. It’s a thankless job, because nobody wants to have their children removed. I know I don’t.
@Seek_Kolinahr Ah, see I don’t have kids, so I don’t know about that stuff being illegal if you have kids, my bad.
Let me repeat: We are all speculating. It’s speculation.
I think @LilCosmo hit the nail on the head. They had reason to be concerned so they investigated it. Then they found something that really validated those concerns, other than the cussing.
I took a picture of my kids when they were playing in a large cage we had. They took turns locking each other in. I posted it. Most people recognized it for what it was, but one did come unglued. Moron!
Hoodrats are useless and a blight on society. It’s not a race issue, I know plenty of useless white people, believe me. These parents should be brought up on charges and at the very least never see these kids again. Maybe than they will have a chance.
Physical abuse isn’t the only kind of abuse social services looks into. The child was being sworn at and called abusive names repeatedly. This IS considered abuse in many States. I don’t know where people get the notion that as long as nobody hits a kid, it’s all fair game.
I’m also practically positive that when they came to do a routine investigation, they found all sorts of other stuff that was endangering the children. It wasn’t just the video.
—-
Side note: I find it odd that @KNOWITALL is making a big deal about calling social services over this, when in another thread where a child was in danger (toddler making frequent escapes from the house—police having to be called to look for the toddler) and she did NOT call because it was a friend of hers and she didn’t want to rock the boat. That child was also in danger. His parents just didn’t make a video about it for everyone to see.
@RealEyesRealizeRealLies I live in Southern, West Virginia. I’m surrounded, that’s why. On what planet is swearing at children acceptable? Much less encouraging it… That kid has no chance of a productive life being raised by people like that. It is compassionate to want that kid to have a good life. It would be cruel to let him wallow with nothing to look forward to but jail and poverty. Taking those kids away IS love and mercy. Those kids deserve a chance.
@Keobooks They’re my neighbors I have to live next to, not really friends, I discussed it with them & it stopped.
Ah, that mystical good life of group homes and foster families.
@Seek_Kolinahr Are those kids worth a chance at a better life? If they stay with their family they have none. They’re done. A rough road is better than a pit.
I just love how we’re all so comfortable determining that people are no better fit to raise a child than the foster system based on a video in which a toddler says some dirty words.
Big Brother, your time has come!
One other thing you guys might not know: when CPS removes a child, the case goes to court within a day or two and the Family Court judge makes the ultimate determination about whether the child is returned, remanded to Foster Care or if there are other resources, like family or friends willing and able to take the child. During the period the child is in foster care, the parents have a court order that outlines exactly what they have to do (ie therapy, parenting classes, rehab)
Seek according to the article it was not only based on the video. Again, for the third time, we don’t know the whole story. Why do you keep saying it’s only because of the video? The article says there were safety concerns.
@Seek_Kolinahr you are just as quick rushing to judgement as everyone else on this thread. The only difference is that you seem to be disregarding what we have heard about the story so far and what we are hearing from an actual CPS worker. Just because your opinion differs from everyone else’s doesn’t mean it is more valid.
I know three kids who were taken from their mother not once, but three times when they were growing up. After several times of trying to reunite them with their mother, she finally lost custody permanently after her third DUI with the kids in the car. They are all adults now and all productive members of society. There mom has been in and out of rehab at least four times in the last three years, the last time she was drinking within in days of going home. If CPS had not removed those kids there is no doubt in my mind their lives would have looked an awful lot like their mom’s life.
As @DWW25921 has said, sometimes being removed from the house is the best shot a kid has. Of course we don’t know for sure that is the case here, but don’t we owe it to kids who have no choice in the matter of who is raising them to make sure that, if we see smoke, there is no fire?
Forgive me if I am wrong @jca, but isn’t the ultimate of goal of CPS to keep the children with the parents and provide resources to help them refine their parenting skills and improve conditions for the child?
@Seek I agree the system is subpar. Talking to my neighbors personally was my choice because they are good parents.
Cosmo: yes that’s the goal. However if the child is at risk of harm (for example the mom leaves child home alone and goes out) then the child would possibly be removed and the mother re-educated.
I used to tell people that despite what everyone thinks, we don’t want to remove children because it’s really easier to keep the family together. The amount of paperwork and court visits for a removal is overwhelming.
Cosmo: I can think of more and better examples. I have tons. Let me know. Extenuating circumstances come into play, too, which is why people can’t compare their case to their neighbors and friends.
I’m not saying the people are good parents.
They’re very likely awful parents.
However, it’s easy enough for those in power to traipse into your house and decide you’ve broken the law and deserve to be punished without giving them another excuse to do it and have us thank them for it.
So many people are going to cry “Oh! Yay! That poor baby is safe now!” without thinking for a second that the same thing could happen to them.
They recently had to write a law stating that homeschooling parents could refuse to let CPS into their homes without a warrant. You can imagine why. Some neighbor gets nosy, reports a truant kid, CPS comes to check it out, parents say “Oh! I have nothing to hide! Come on in!”
Lo and behold, they find something wrong, and a kid spends three days in a group foster home with actual problem kids, for no reason.
@Seek_Kolinahr it has happened to me. CPS did traipse into my house accusing me of being a bad parent. When they saw the reality of the situation they didn’t take my kids. When they traipsed into this house, based on actual behavior they saw on tape, they clearly saw that the situation was not safe for the child. The point is that CPS is not around to take kids from good situations and I would venture a guess that is the last thing they want to do.
As pissed off as I was when I was investigated, I have to admit I was pleased to know that there are people who are looking out for the interest of children in danger. I must say though, I believe there should be some consequences for people who make false complaints because of a personal vendetta (or because the see and kid and decide the kid must be truant). The same person who called CPS has had the police at my house twice since then based on phony complaints. He even placed another call to CPS demanding they reopen the case and cussing out the caseworker and insisting on speaking to a supervisor when his demand was refused.
http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/falseaccusation.html
Edited:
This is one of many such websites. I know more than a few people who’ve been accused of child abuse, and later were released from the accusation. Sometimes it’s the government doing the accusing, sometimes not, but the government always gets money for every case it opens. It always gets more cash for every child in its system. It’s big money.
When you speak about CPS and people being investigated, children being removed from their homes, etc., always play “follow the money”. The results are always revealing.
Many cases are unfounded. All of the factors are weighed in the decision. Its a joint decision between worker, supervisor and management.
Once again, it’s way more work to remove a kid than it is to not remove a kid.
@DWW25921 “On what planet is swearing at children acceptable?”
The same planet that requires ghetto families to live under extreme city gang environments, where the cultural standards value street smarts and tough character as more important than what any white middle class adult could ever begin to associate with.
Folks, sorry, but I highly doubt that any one of us can make a fair judgement call on this situation unless we endured the lifestyle that is required to survive in the world they live in.
There are children in this world who are getting their faces cut on with knives, and rods poked through their noses, and plates stacked up to elongate their necks, and small shoes to keep their feet from growing. Would anyone stop those practices because they didn’t fit the standards of our egotistical western culture?
No one has the right to judge others in circumstances that we have not endured.
Only if fundie families have their children removed as as well.
—@jca You are right, but the point I failed to emphasize is that making false allegations of child abuse should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and that regardless of how much work it is to remove a child from their home, the government (specifically Child Protective Services) always profits financially from the transaction. Regardless of how much anyone likes it or dislikes it, child abuse is big business!—-
@snowberry But then we run into the same problem we have of punishing women who cry rape when they haven’t been raped. People will be afraid to come forward.
I called CPS on one of my day care moms once. I felt, and still feel, the poor kid was in danger, from the mother’s Neanderthal boyfriend who had just been released from prison. After he came into the picture the child’s behavior began deteriorating rapidly. She was 4 years old, fully potty trained. Among other signs, she started having bathroom accidents. I’m pretty sure she was being sexually molested.
CPS investigated the home, found “nothing wrong,” and dropped the case. Would the parents then have been right to sue me for “false allegations”?
@Dutchess_III I hear where you are coming from, and you did not deliberately set out to ruin those people’s lives, but I also know people who have lives have been completely derailed because of deliberate false allegations of child abuse. The troubling thing is that even if the accuser recants their story, the accused stays on the child abuser list for the rest of their lives. In those cases, they are prevented from ever working in their chosen profession again! That is no small matter, and yes, anyone who deliberately makes false allegations of child abuse should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
@snowberry I am curious, where does profit come in when CPS investigates a case of potential child endangerment? Who is paying them and what is the payment for? @jca, can you shed some light on the magnificent profits that motivate CPS? I have been under the (mistaken?) impression that they are a non-profit government agency.
Good question @LilCosmo. I imagine the funds come in to pay workers and pay for housing, and, of course, to pay foster parents. I don’t think the government makes a profit of some sort.
@snowberry I agree completely. People who deliberately make false allegations should be prosecuted, just like women who make false allegations of rape should be prosecuted. But how does one go about determining if the person did it deliberately and maliciously?
@LilCosmo and @Dutchess_III This has potential to be a very very long (and heated) discussion. Rather than run the risk of having all of it deleted because it does not directly discuss this particular toddler (mods gotta do what mods gotta do, ya know), I’ll open another question.
OK. But it was in social! That’s what we do in social! Run wild!
@snowberry I think this is a logical extension of where the question is going. Who is paying the big bucks to have CPS do investigations and how are they profiting? For the record I am not saying that the system is perfect. I do find it very difficult to believe that the issues with the system are because of a profit motive. I might even argue that the issues are caused by the exact opposite – a lack of funds.
@Dutchess_III Oh ya! Whew! OK, carry on then folks! I’ll spare myself the agony of starting a new question. LOL Sorry it took me so long to finish this, but here it is:
OK, big business. First you have the many government employees who are getting paid (remember they’ve got bills to pay the same as the rest of us- secretaries, caseworkers, supervisors, child advocates, prosecuting attorneys and judges, people who run the cameras to interview children in “Children’s Advocacy Centers”, people who maintain the government buildings where all this happens, etc.) There are also the attorneys who represent the accused. Government such as this is always big business. Don’t for a minute think it’s “non-profit”, except of course for the guy who has to pay the attorney to defend him, or all of us who pay taxes to pay all the government employees who are involved in accusing him (whether or not he’s actually guilty). None of these people are doing this on a volunteer basis you know.
Remember, anytime you have big government, you also have corruption. Unfortunately it’s part of life. Obviously you’re going to have some honest folks in the mix, and some states may have less corruption than others, but it’s always there. My experience regarding corruption in government and the subject of child abuse is quite personal, but I’ll save that for later. Here are a few books on the subject, all based on true events:
At the Mercy of the State http://www.amazon.com/At-Mercy-State-Robert-Coleman-ebook/dp/B0087AN1MO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1389368858&sr=8-3&keywords=corruption+in+government+child+abuse
The Franklin Cover-up: Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska http://www.amazon.com/The-Franklin-Cover-up-Satanism-Nebraska/dp/0963215809/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389368858&sr=8-1&keywords=corruption+in+government+child+abuse
And another book on the same subject: The Franklin Scandal: A Story of Powerbrokers, Child Abuse & Betrayal http://www.amazon.com/The-Franklin-Scandal-Powerbrokers-Betrayal/dp/0977795357/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1389369419&sr=8-4&keywords=corruption+in+government+child+abuse
A JUDICIAL TERROR IN TEXAS: CROSSING THE NATION..A FIFTEEN YEAR NIGHTMARE OF BEING FALSELY ACCUSED http://www.amazon.com/JUDICIAL-TERROR-IN-TEXAS-NIGHTMARE/dp/1418428361/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1389368858&sr=8-5&keywords=corruption+in+government+child+abuse
Have you seen this video that has some additional information about this case?
Edit: Oh, try doing a search for “Corruption in Child Protective Services” and see all the hits you’ll get! Yikes!
This is a comment by a legislator on the Franklin Scandal: “In this report, I am focusing on the Georgia Department of Family and Children Services (DFCS). However, I believe Child Protective Services nationwide has become corrupt and that the entire system is broken almost beyond repair. I am convinced parents and families should be warned of the dangers.” http://kidjacked.com/family/schaefer.asp
@Cupcake Yep. Lots of stuff that isn’t right, lots of smoke and mirrors, and everyone’s got an opinion on what’s right and what’s wrong. A perfect recipe for disaster, and no matter what, the kids are going to suffer. How much they suffer, and which outcome is best will always be a question I think.
My reporter friend and I discussed this today and she said the mother was 16. Does that hold significance in this discussion?
It holds significance in that she was also removed from the home and they are looking for a foster family to take both her and her toddler together.
Do a google search for anything and you’ll find all sorts of stuff, good and bad, true and not true. Do a google search for ”(any actor) gay” and you’ll find rumors that actor is gay. Do a google search for any surgery where thousands of people have good outcomes, and you’ll find negativity and stuff about people who had bad results with those surgeries. Do a google search for “Corruption in CPS” and you’ll find lots of people who are against CPS because they feel they’ve been wrongly judged, had children wrongly taken away, have narrow, one-sided viewpoints and only know or see what they want to know and see.
As far as politicians who say negative things, every politician has something negative to say about certain issues that upset him/her. Some politicians are more crazy than others.
I had children we removed, where the parents would swear up and down that they are “good mothers.” They’d cry and say “You know I’m a good mother.” OK, yes, maybe in some ways they were good mothers. Maybe they never meant any harm. However, because of the way they were raised, or their drug/substance abuse, or any other zillion factors, they neglect their children. Maybe they’d spend money on drugs instead of food. Maybe they’d not want to wake up on time to get the kids off to school. Maybe their homes were so dirty the kids had lice and missed lots of school. Maybe the kids never were sent to the doctor. I’m not even talking about abuse now, I’m talking about neglect. I
f you ask those mothers, they would say CPS is terrible, corrupt, heartless, cruel, just wants to take people’s children away. However, the evidence would show they are sadly mistaken.
Oh, for crying out loud, @jca. This really happened to these folks. It’s been documented more than a few times. Are you saying that Senator Nancy Schaefer made up that story? It’s not the only one out there.
@jca I’m going to agree with you.
My brother-in-law says there is a woman who sells pills in his neighborhood, has about six dogs, and the same number of kids. The yard has no grass, it’s a broken down trailer and the kids all have shaved heads, etc…
You can argue the kids are well-fed and have a roof and go to school. Are they good parents? The definition of a good parent is apparently very different to different people.
@keobooks Yes, I’m investigating, no worries.
@snowberry I kind of think you are heading toward conspiracy theory territory here. Yes, there is corruption, but I would venture a guess that there is corruption in a majority of businesses, be they profit, non-profit, state run, federal, whatever. I honestly believe that the ne’er do wells are the minority and the majority of people who work in a system such as CPS do so because they are interested in helping children and families. I just have a really hard time believing that CPS workers take children out of perfectly good homes in order to line their pockets.
Here is an article from Slate that touches upon the panic of the late 80’s early 90’s over sexual abuse of young children and participation in satanic rituals outlined in a couple of the links you provided. The fact of the matter is that most of the children who talked about their experiences and “repressed memories” were coaxed by their parents and psychologists. So honestly, your examples don’t hold up.
I’m talking about the many situations of criminal behavior on the part of government employees acting on “behalf” of children’s best interest. Big, Huge, enormous difference. (It’s a dirty little secret, but it’s real, and it happens in every state).
@LilCosmo No conspiracy theory. It’s not that organized, but sometimes it can cross state borders. It’s just government corruption. That’s all.
@snowberry ok it’s real, it happens in every state. I still posit that it is the exception rather than the rule. I also have to say that there is no doubt in my mind that is not what happened in this case.
At one time my little ones were molested. The case worker gave our private information (names, ages, our address, and my phone number) to a firm staffed with BYU graduate students to “counsel” our children. Furthermore, they informed me that that is where we should take our kids. After I checked around a bit, I discovered they had a regular habit of doing this, and we speculated that someone was getting kick-backs for funneling clients their way.
They (the DCFS people) were pretty heavy handed in the way they worked with us, and I was scared to report them, but that’s an example. I did not make this up.
We took them some place else “just a bit more professional” by the way- people with real credentials and experience.
@snowberry so their little scheme didn’t even work. So there is proof that even if they are trying to line their pockets, it can be futile and not even worth the risk. Again, exception, not the rule.
Exception because WE didn’t buy it. I don’t take kindly to that sort of thing. It’s why I manage to hang around Fluther, even though I get beat up regularly. LOL. But my sources said that that’s how they ran their business.
@snowberry‘s example is like saying “the police are corrupt! I got arrested and the evidence was blah blah blah etc. etc. etc. and the DA is in bed with the cops, etc. etc. etc. so ALL police are corrupt!” Well, maybe some, a few here and there, but not all and not most.
LOL, well the police ARE corrupt! Especially in my town!
Not all, not most and not across the country.
I doubt it. Not from my personal experience, and not from the people I know. Calling the police is a crap shoot.
Edit: I used to think they were honest. But I’ve lived too long in too many places to think that anymore.
Do you have a link to news stories of the books you listed @snowberry? I’m having a hard time navigating on this stupid touch screen.
:-)
I didn’t mean to put that stupid Emily face on there and omg I know the evils of auto correct now too!
I am completely against state agencies taking children and making them wards of the state. It fucks the child up even worse in my opinion.
If the child is being abused, should the child remain with the abusive parent? If the child is not being fed because the parent is spending their money on drugs, the child should stay with that and starve?
@jca In cases of imminent danger, I think children should be placed with other, more competent family members.
Children should always stay within their own family.
There was a case in my area where a mother of 3 all under the age of 4 left her kids in a cheap motel to go party for a couple days. The police were called and when they went in, one child was sucking some pizza sauce off the filthy carpet, and another was drinking water out of the toilet. All were in filthy diapers. The children were taken away. Should they be given back? I don’t know, but definitely only after the mom has been drug free and shown she can and will take care of her kids.
Family is always the first potential resource that is explored. However, sometimes there is no family, or the family is not able or willing or has their own child protective history.
According to the mother in the CNN story, “they didn’t come because of the video, they came because of the gang violence.” Why is everyone talking about the swearing video? It sounds like this family has a long history with violence and police involvement, and that this was the eventual result. The whole swearing video sounds like a media misdirect to me. They’re emphasizing the part of the story that they can sell.
@Seek_Kolinahr “There was no actual legal reason to investigate the family.
There was no report made on the family other than this video.
Thus, an apparently law-abiding family (because we are innocent until otherwise proven) was investigated and had their children removed from the home, because the video was deemed “immoral” by the police.”
All of this is contradicted in the CNN story. CPS had already started an investigation last summer, due to a report of neglect. There was a subsequent drive-by shooting on the home, in which a toddler was grazed by a bullet. The mother was arrested in a separate incident.
None of these details appear to be in the print story for whatever reason, they’re all in the CNN video report. This story is not just about a video of a child swearing.
So, I’m not getting the point here. There are a lot of details. Are they somehow holding them responsible for keeping a child in a home where gang activity outside the house resulted in bullets going through the wall of the house and injuring the kid? I kind of get that idea, which really sounds preposterous to me. Why does this affect the case?
@snowberry It sounds to me like there was gang activity inside the house as well. These are not innocent bystanders.
First of all, if the mother was arrested, the issue is not only outside the house.
Here is a story from the local NBC affiliate detailing why the children were taken. They were not taken because of gang activity in the neighborhood, but because of gang activity in the house. This child’s father was killed by gang violence earlier this year, the mother and the child were shot in October when someone entered the house and started firing. This child’s grandfather and uncle are both locked up on charges related to weapons and gang activity. The family had been relocated by the housing authority twice in an attempt to keep the kids safe – trouble followed both times. The gang activity was not just in the neighborhood outside the house.
Thank you @LilCosmo! Everyone’s hysteria about an overzealous legal system was apparently incorrect, at least as relates to this case.
Also, in thinking further About @seek’s concern that cps shiuld have a search warrant, cps does not enter forcibly and they do not search. The family has the right to not speak to them or let them in.
Hysteria nothing.
None of that information was in the posted link, unless one had the bandwidth to download a video. I don’t.
I was running with the information given. And considering the information I was given, I stand by every word I said.
@Seek_Kolinahr Yeah, ridiculously sloppy reporting by CNN. Why am I not surprised.
Sensationalism is alive and well in cable news. It is my understanding that they pulled the story from Gawker, they clearly did not bother to do much research from there.
Actually what @Seek_Kolinahr says about CPS targeting homeschoolers is absolutely true. And it does stink.
^ With all the problems Florida has, I was shocked to learn that recently there have been laws written to protect homeschoolers. Methinks it’s because 70+% of them are evangelical Christians, and that’s most of these politicians’ bread and butter, but whatever.
Anyway, now, by law, the school district has to give us two weeks’ notice in writing of a “surprise” portfolio check. And if they come to evaluate the child in person, we are allowed to refuse them entry into the house.
Answer this question 
