Republicans: what do you think about what Huckabee said recently in a speech about birth control?

It was not democrats that created a law that forces women to have their vagina penetrated by a phallic ultrasound device if they want an abortion.

Huckabee’s a freaking idiot. That was obvious long, long ago. And apparently he’s sexually inactive, since he doesn’t realize that reproduction involves more than just women.

@syz Are you a Republican? I only ask because I am especially interested in what Republicans have to say. I can pretty much bet on what Democrats will say.

He said it last Thursday.

@JLeslie Ah, hell, no.

My mother in law used to tell me, “Don’t eat an orange before or after. Eat one instead.”

Red meat. He was saying that this is what Democrats believe. Unfortunately, his choice of words and the way he phrased it made it seem that it’s what Republicans believe (Freudian slip?).

So much for the rebranding effort, eh?

I really need to go back to not watching politics.

Idiotic and inflammatory statements like this—from members of either party—are precisely why I too have vowed to stop, or at least drastically reduce, watching politics. My gastric juices don’t need the encouragement.

Perhaps it would be less of an issue for us to want insurance to cover birth control if women were actually paid equivalent salaries as men.

I am fairly certain that his wife has never had a orgasm.

not from him anyway

I wish my wife’s libido needed controlling.

I’m actually surprised at how insulting this statement is: “because they cannot control their libido or their reproductive system without the help of the government”. I mean, wow! How stupid can someone be?

What is he suggesting? That if women could “control” their libidos, they’d only have sex when trying to get pregnant? I’m sure their husbands would have much to say about that. I’m sure he’d have much to say about that if his wife only wanted to have sex when they were trying to conceive. As for controlling their reproductive system – is he saying that a woman can control whether her body gets pregnant or not simply by willing it not to happen and “controlling” how her body naturally works? This reminds me of when that politician (I believe) said that a woman would not get pregnant if she was legitimately raped because her body would “reject it.” Therefore, if she does get pregnant, she secretly wanted it. The ignorance of some people, I swear.

@cookieman My husband would share your sentiment wholeheartedly. :)

I still wish my insurance would stop covering Viagra and similar drugs unless the covered the pill. I use it for other medical reasons, not just birth control, which, unless I’m incorrect, Viagra doesn’t.

@GracieT , Now your birth control should be covered with no co pay.
I still wish a Republican would weigh in. I understand how they might feel like they’re walking into a firestorm though.

Apparently, it is his opinion that Republican women can control their libidos.
Well, they certainly can around him.

I think Huckabee is just talking code. His statement to me is trying to talk the right. If you play it backwards it says, we don’t want to pay for poor lazy people. Let them get off their ass and work and pay for what they need like other people do. If they have to curb sex, because they can’t afford it, then too bad. We should all live wthin our means. Or, that’s the way I hear it. The idiotic thing is, contraceptive should be something we promote as a country, because it helps the indidual and society overall, and is cheaper or the taxpayer than the alternative. The government isn’t forcing anyone to use contraceptives, that’s jyst stupid talk.

@GracieT I wonder how many insurance companies don’t cover contraception and do cover viagra. Every insurance I have ever had covered contraceptives.

@GracieT “I still wish my insurance would stop covering Viagra and similar drugs unless the covered the pill. I use it for other medical reasons, not just birth control, which, unless I’m incorrect, Viagra doesn’t.”

“Hey, I…uhhhh…need my Viagra for…ummmm…medical reasons. It…uhhhhh…helps with blood circulation.”

No, I think it’s a fair statement actually. Oacac and other places, maybe even Planned Parenthood, offer income-based birth control and often free condoms to anyone who comes in. If you have no birth control and can’t afford to spend $5 on a box of full-priced condoms, then it’s your choice whether to have sex or not.

Republicans are all about less government and more personal responsiblity so I’m not sure what the outrage is aboutm, it’s common sense to me.

No, it’s an idiotic statement, as birth control often has medical uses beyond contraceptive.

@KNOWITALL , do you see the discrimination by covering mens sexual health in insurance and not women’s sexual health? Birth control can actually prevent medical expenses while viagra can cause them.

Wouldn’t it be funny if as governor Huckabee had actually supported such a mandate by the government?

Uncle Sugar Huckabee!

@Judi I do and I don’t think it should cover erectile dysfunction or viagra either if that’s what you mean. People are so amped up on sex all the time, just pay for it yourself instead of the govt, that’s all we’re saying, otherwise I could care less. I certainly don’t want my tax dollars going for you to go have sex.

@Darth_Algar I do know some women take birth control to regulate cycles and for acne, but neither of those is life-threatening, so I don’t consider them to be necessary.

One of the reasons why he will draw a TV audience but will never be President. Also the reason he will stick to TV.

@KNOWITALL Thanks for weighing in. Don’t you think it is better and cheaper to pay for contraception than babies? I’m just saying if we deal in reality, adults are going to have sex. You basically said exactly what I thought was the main message. The right wing does not want to pay for anyone else’s expenses. It’s the same line as thinking as school vouchers, any sort of welfare, etc.

@KNOWITALL and @Darth_Algar Some women do take birth control, because their periods are crippling, but that is a small percentage. It doesn’t matter for this question anyway, because really Huckabee is talking about making babies and getting our jollies, not women who have medical conditions.

@JLeslie I think we’ve had this conversation a few times and the answer is that yes it’s cheaper probably, but probably not better.

What I expect from myself and my niece as well as women in general is to make sure they don’t have children unless they want to have children. It’s a personal choice and responsiblity issue, not an issue about who’s paying for a few condoms imo.

Yes I’m a Republican and no I don’t think your sex life falls under my financial responsiblity or the governments. Frankly if your ‘jollies’ were life-threatening it would be different, needs versus wants.

@KNOWITALL , we are talking about requiring insurance providers to offer birth control, not government providing birth control. I’m sure that the insurance providers WANT to provide it since it cysts their costs in the long run. The problem is employers and politicians that think they should be making the decisions about a woman’s medical care instead of her and her doctor.

@Judi If it’s a medical issue or medically necessary for the individual, then yes.

The difference between you and I is that you make it a medical issue which is a need, and I disagree.

@Judi Is Huckabee talking about insurance? His statement sounded to me like he was talking about the government providing contraceptives.

The really bad part is, you don’t allow the women the access to birth control, then complain about what losers they are when they have a child out of wedlock that the “state has to support” because the father absconds. But somehow it’s all the women’s faults, the sluts.

@Dutchess_III Here we go again. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to have sex with anyone, and I’m fairly certain you can double-wrap some condoms if necessary.

It’s really not rocket-science and I’m tired of hearing it spoke of like someone will die without an orgasm and condoms are not at every convenience store for a reasonable price. Somehow I and several friends and family have managed to not get pregnant.

@KNOWITALL In a way contraception is always a medical issue. Contraception is wanting to medically alter ourselves or use a medical device to prevent a pregnancy. But, I understand your point of view, I do. I just think it is unrealistic.

Do you think it is obnoxious how he worded it though? Saying women need to control their libidos? Is that how you would tell a woman without access to BC pills to not get pregnant? Control your libido?

@JLeslie But it’s a lot of trouble when you can just abstain or prevent it yourself through sheer will is it not? How can it be unrealistic when women like me and my friends have no children and no abortions?

I realize that some of you want to protect everyone from themselves and their irresponsiblity, and it concerns me that so many of you think that is acceptable reckless sexual behavior.

What I think is obnoxioius is women making ourselves look like idiots, we don’t need to be coddled because we have vaginas, if anything taking control of your own body and reproductive decisions is empowering ourselves and our sisters.

How many women give in to men who want to ‘feel’ and we accept physical, financial repercussions instead of just saying ‘no’. It really infuriates me we are still letting them devalue us in that way.

@KNOWITALL, you said “if anything taking control of your own body and reproductive decisions is empowering ourselves and our sisters.” That’s the point. The Republicans are trying to make that difficult for some reason.

@KNOWITALL I too have never needed an abortion. My problem with using the word libido is it makes “those” women sound like they are oversexualized or something. When Surgeon General Elders suggested it is ok to tell teens to masterbate she was fired. It’s like the religious right wants to deny women even have libidos. She was SG under Clinton, but he had his hands tied politically and had to let her go.

I didn’t get pregnant for two years doing the rhythm thing. I have a close friend who basically has used it for the better oart of her marriage and another girl Who was my roomate, her mom used withdrawal in between her planned pregnancies. Those methods even count in my opinion. Those methods mean the couple needs to avoid sex during some times of the month, or not finish so to speak. Although, all of us were married and accident would have been ok.

Some women are idiots. Let’s just concede to that. Some men are too. They don’t use birth control when they should. Some of them would if they had more information. Some people charge up their credit cards, some never plan for a rainy day. The government sometimes acts like a parent, seeing the future of the screw ups and pitfalls some of her kids are going to encounter, and does her best to have rules to prevent disaster. We make people pay social security, because all too many won’t save for retirement, hell a good portion of Americans is in debt. It’s nice to want to believe people will do the right thing always, but we know that isn’t true. They still might not do it even if it is free and there for the taking, but there is a better chance. Then there are women who are simply poor and it makes sense for society to help them with contraception, but honestly, I am ok if we don’t. I am not all gung ho defending that we should pay for everyone with our taxes, but I think it is a good idea. I don’t think our current medical system really supports having to pay for contraception in some sort of mandatory way so it is provided to everyone.

@Dutchess_III We don’t need help doing it, it’s already in our power now. What is so difficult about not having sex or having protected sex? It’s embarassing for me as a woman to keep hearing that, this isn’t the 1940’s, we have POWER AND KNOWLEDGE!!

@JLeslie You’re right. If you want to lay with a man and not use protection when you don’t want a child, then I think it’s pretty idiotic. My mom did it and admits she was a young idiot ‘not thinking’ and ‘wanting to please’. That will always occur no matter what the government provides or does not provide, which is my point. Either you care or not, regulation and insurance will not change it.

I don’t know about other women, but I don’t have sex with a man unless I’m in a committed, monogamous relationship. Which means, I will be using a more permanent form of birth control, not condoms. Condoms are terribly unreliable, plus there is a problem with making the guy stop and put one on.

If I am not in a committed relationship I DON’T have sex. If I am in a relationship, it would piss me off if some lawmaker tried to prevent me from getting birth control. I mean, how long would a relationship last if there was never any sex?

We have the KNOWLEDGE, but law makers are trying to strip us of the POWER, just like they stripped us of the power prior to the 30’s. We were supposed to tell our husbands to go sleep on the roof if we didn’t want any more children.

I have set by and watched this thread, not being a republican but I would like to put my two cents worth in, if I may.

What we have here is a controversy where right wing pundits are putting words into the mouths of left wing reporters who put words into the mouth of Huckabee who put words into the mouths of democrats.

He did not say what they say he said, directly, but neither did the “democrats” he spoke of ever say such a thing. THIS is what he should have been called out on.

There are implications here, however, that the right will approve of and the left will not.

From my perspective, Huckabee parsed his wording carefully, knowing that what he said would sow discord and that would bring conservative approval and higher ratings.

@KNOWITALL But just to argue the point, if we as a country gave the availability and education to all teens and women, probably the unwanted pregnancy rate would go down. I’m pretty sure the rate is lower in countries who are realistic about it. But, thise countries have socialized medicine, and it is easy to make contraception available.

Condoms are for casual sex. Guys walk around with them in their wallets on the chance they’ll get lucky one day.

@Dutchess_III The only PROBLEM with making the guy stop and put one on is our lack of personal power. I personally never had a problem saying do it or get lost creeper.

Lawmakers can’t strip us of our personal power in this aspect, not as long as the power to say no to sex is ours and ours alone.

@JLeslie I have doubts about the veracity of that statement.

As I said, condoms are for one night stands.

Say I’m in a committed relationship. Am I supposed to let him know up front that I can’t afford birth control so we will never have sex? Sure. I have the “power” to do that.

@Dutchess_III Nah, lots of us married women use them, when we’re over 30 for health reasons.

I can loan you $5 for a good weekend sister, no worries. ;)

If neither of you can afford to buy a box of condoms at walgreens, then I’d say you probably should just abstain or try something a little less invasive..lol

Condoms are NOT an option for permanent birth control in a permanent relationship where you have sex several times a week. They are not. They WILL fail eventually, in one way or another, guaranteed.

Besides, they ARE a form of birth control. Would legislators outlaw them too? Or is it just the women they want to prevent having access to birth control?

@JLeslie, I think he’s talking about the affordable care act which requires insurers to provide contraception at no additional cost.

@Dutchess_III Okay, I maybe me and my friends are bona fide miracles then but somehow we’ve survived having intercourse and not getting pregnant…lol. Peace out.

No one’s outlawing anything, go to Walgreen’s check out the options, it’s pretty simple. We don’t need to spend tax money on your sex life, imo.

@KNOWITALL “I do know some women take birth control to regulate cycles and for acne, but neither of those is life-threatening, so I don’t consider them to be necessary.”

So should anything not life-threatening not be covered by insurance?

As I said in the abortion thread:

A person’s health care decisions are between them and their doctor, and all uninvolved parties should leave their moral disinclinations out of it.

@Darth_Algar I think some thing’s that are covered are considered non-essential, like mole removal when it’s non-cancerous but there are preventative thing’s covered as well. Too much too discuss in this thread.

@Seek_Kolinahr Do you not see the irony though when you ask us to keep our religion seperate from the law we vote on, but still want to use our tax dollars for thing’s we don’t agree with?

Well, if my husband and I are poor, and if you don’t spend a few bucks on OUR sex life, plan to spend thousands helping US raise those kids WE had accidentally. (BTW….this whole conversation doesn’t involve me at all. Don’t need to worry about it anymore.)

Again, you can’t seem to get past the wham bam thank you maam mentality of sexual intercourse. Give me five bucks for a fun “weekend.’ WHAT? I’m talking about day in and day out. You and your SO go to bed at night, every night, and you’re probably going to have sex more often than not.

By ‘control their libido’ he means not having sex but ‘control your reproductive system’? I didn’t even know women could do this.

Honestly, how much tax money is being spent on birth control? This is not a rhetorical question.

What about those of us that use birth control to help with irregular or extremely heavy and/or painful periods. Birth control serves other purposes.

Your Bible says “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s”

I sincerely doubt Jesus cared what Caesar spent their tax dollars on, or there would have been an “unless you disagree with Caesar” clause written right in there. No?

@flutherother what he was suggesting was that women are horn toads who can’t control themselves.

For what it’s worth, I’m just arguing to be arguing. I honestly don’t think any kind of birth control is going to be denied to woman. Maybe individual business will try to pull that ridiculous crap, but it isn’t going to happen across the board. Women who are eligible for Mediare (Medicade? I get confused) will still be able to get BC. Those with private insurance will be able to get BC.

^ For what it’s worth, many states’ Medicaid does not cover any prescriptions, and will continue to not cover any prescriptions.

Because poor people don’t deserve lifesaving and life-improving medication. Better that they die and decrease the surplus population at the same time they continue breeding to increase it.

That’s why we need a government @KNOWITALL. There will always be factions disagreeing with how things are run, so we need an elected body to make those decisions based on what’s best over all for the country.

I hate all politicians. They are all idiots. I find it hard to believe that any intelligent person would make such a nonsensical statement. I think birth control, just like all other perscription medication, should be purchased and not handed out free at the taxpayer’s expense. But insinuating that women should abstain from sex instead of being on birth control? That would set the human race back about a hundred years.

Actually, not even that far. BC didn’t become legal until the 30’s.

@KNOWITALL “I think some thing’s that are covered are considered non-essential, like mole removal when it’s non-cancerous but there are preventative thing’s covered as well. Too much too discuss in this thread.”

Yes, but should insurance cover those things?

@Darth_Algar No.

What?

Most moles are removed before they are cancerous. It’s called “preventative medicine.”

This is why medical decisions need to be made by doctors instead of random people who think they know better.

If you’re married and you or your spouse have a latex allergy (I’m pretty sure those are the only free ones you can get from planned parenthood, then you should just be asexual or rich enough to afford contraception?
The poor should be deprived of sex too. Wow. those irresponsible beasts.

Seriously. “We have money, and thus the right to dictate the biological urges of our fellow human animals.”

Bastards.

They can’t know a mole is cancerous until they remove it and biopsy it. I had a simple dark spot on my nose removed and biopsied. To everyone’s surprise, even the doctor’s, it was cancerous. I had to go in for a second treatment.

I think the last 2 posts there say it all in regard to this question.

@KNOWITALL

Care to elaborate as to why not?

@KNOWITALL, I’m sorry to return to something you said earlier, but my birth control isn’t used to control acne, it’s used to regulate my cycles and control the immense pain and other problems that accompany it.

@GracieT, since this is all hypothetical anyway, I would imagine that you could still get your meds to control the problem, but it would just be called something other than “birth control.”

I don’t know what they would call it, it is the pill, after all.

They’d just rename it and target people with the kinds of problems you have. Like, “Beyaz 21 for those with irregular menstrual cycles and the pain that comes with it. Ask your doctor about Beyaz 21!!” All the warnings, possible side affects and alerts about this drug following ...................................................................................... ..................... .............. ...................................................................................... ........................ ..................... .............. ........ .............. ................ ............. ............. ............. ............. ........................ ..................... ..................................................... ............. ............. ............. ............. ........................ ..................... ..................................................... ............. ............. ............. ............. ..................... .............. ........................ ..................... ..................................................... ............. ............. ............. ............. ........................ .................... ..................................................... ............. ............. ............. ............. ........................ ..................... ..................................................... ............. ............. ............. ............. ........................ ..................... ..................................................... ............. ............. ............. ............. ........................ ..................... ..................................................... ............. ............. ............. ............. ........................ ..................... ..................................................... ............. ............. ............. ............. ........................ ..................... ..................................................... ............. ............. ............. ............. ........................ ..................... ..................................................... ............. ............. ............. ............. ........................ ..................... .............. 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You left out “anal leakage”.

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Beyaz is a type of birth control pill.

@Dutchess_III What birth control pills have side effects like that? Mine certainly don’t, nor does Beyaz. Headaches, nausea, spotting, and breast tenderness is about as bad as I’ve seen as far as side effects of contraceptives.

I got really sick from bc pills. Made me crazy so I had two “sponge” babies in the early 80’s.

@Judi I’m always curious, if a form of contraception fails, why do you stick with it? One jelly here, I don’t remember who, said she had three BC pill babies. Twice maybe, but three times?

I could t do the pill, I was afraid of an IUD, condoms just didn’t work, foam gave me a rash and was messy. I finally got my tubes tied but the doctor was hesitant since I was only 23.

@Judi “condoms just didn’t work”

How so?

@livelaughlove21..WHAT? C’mon, man! You couldn’t think I was serious when I said side affects could be the urge to barbeque your cat or have goldfish for dinner! It was a joke about all the freaking side affects they list whenever they advertise a new drug.

I was just explaining to @GracieT that if somehow BC pills were illegal to use as a birth control method, the drugs that go into it would still be available for other medical problems, just under a different name.

@livelaughlove21, we were very young and passions were totally out of control. 30 seconds was an eternity!
My first hubby was bipolar and that often meant control and restraint were a foreign concept.
Also, when we tried they rarely seemed to stay in place. Maybe they’re better now?

@Dutchess_III I knew very well that you weren’t being literal and were making a point about drug side effects, but it seemed as though your point was meant to apply to BC as well. That is what we’re discussing, after all.

@Judi I can understand that. Thanks for elaborating.

@Judi “Maybe they’re better now?”

Must be. I’ve never had a problem. Trusty ole Trojans do the job just fine.

I must say, I’ve never been in a “30 seconds is an eternity” situation during sex. I must be missing out on something.

@livelaughlove21. I thought my only point was about making GracieT aware that the drugs to help her with her other health issues would still be available, just under a different name.

@Dutchess_III Tons of girls are put on BC pills supposedly to regulate their cycle, or for acne, or for bad cramps. The whole need to chart something like that to get the girl her meds is so stupid. It basically puts the doctor in the position of falsifying a record sometimes. I guess some parents are in some sort of parent bubble, believing the birth control is only for that. I’m sure in some cases the girls are not sexually active, but most of the time they are or will be.

@JLeslie What? Chart what? I don’t understand. In order to receive any prescribed medication it needs to be charted. Something is going very wrong again, in a Fluther kind of way….

@Dutchess_III You were saying pills can be marketed various ways, And I am just agreeing. Already the pill is prescribed for things other than preventing pregnancy. From what I understand some insurance companies back in the day, maybe still, wouldn’t cover birth control, but they covered the pill for other medical necesities, so a pimple on a girls chin all of a sudden was an acne problem and she got her pills. I don’t mean to dismiss women with bad acne problems, the condition can be bad, but often it isn’t bad, and the cycles are not very off, the girl just needs birth control. In my day things were still sort of conservativeish, and lits of girls said they were on the pill for uneven cycles, but they were boinking their boyfriends, and basically we all thought that was all bullshit. Doctors chart stuff to CYA, or help the patient. The doctor asks questions to justify prescribing. It happens with more than BC pills.

@livelaughlove21 , yes you are! But the flaming passion wasn’t worth the flaming anger.

I can’t imagine if I had used condoms when I was a teen. I had sex with my boyfriend almost every day for almost two years straight. I probably would have become pregnant, because it would have been difficult to do that with perfection.

Whew! Gotcha @JLeslie. Yes, it would absolutely suck to have to have a doctor diagnose a woman with a “problem” in order to allow her to receive birth control pills.

@livelaughlove21 Yah…you missed something! The panting desperation, LOL!

I’ll tell you what: If Ortho Tri-Cyclen all of a sudden becomes an acne treatment, I’m going to develop some acne with a quickness.

@Seek_Kolinahr You are in luck! Ortho Tri-Cyclen is one of the pills (I don’t even know if there are other ones) approved for the treatment of acne. This means they did clinical research and proved it helps control and get rid of acne. A pharma company can only market a drug for something if it has been tested,

Here is one site where people discuss it for acne. There are many.

I took that drug for two months and it made me whackadoo. I have taken many BC pills and I never had any change in periods, body, or mental state, but that drug made me feel so out of sorts.

@Judi @Dutchess_III Meh…kind of hard to be desperate for sex with someone when you have a low libido. And if overwhelming passion comes with overwhelming fights, I’ll pass. I think I’ll keep my low-drama relationship. Oh, and the condoms.

Well, as a woman you aren’t walking around desperate all day, like it seems like a lot of guys are, but during the act itself it can get pretty passionate.

Good to know all I’ll have to do is convince a dermatologist I need birth control instead of my gynaecologist, if the anti-woman bills continue to pass.

This country is fucked up. For serious.

Ortho Tri-Cyclen made me crazy for a few months, but then I levelled out. Beats the lower-dose one I was on, with all the breakthrough bleeding. That’s no fun at all

I don’t think doctors really mind “doctoring” prescriptions if it’s for the good. Maybe kind of like a lawyer, “I’m prescribing this for your acne, but be advised it stops your ovulating cycle and you probably won’t be able to conceive while you’re on it. You need to consider this if you want to have a baby.”

I wonder what the difference in cost is for a consultation with a gynaecologist vs. a dermatologist.

Also, I’m not sure I’m comfortable with my gynaecological health in the hands of a specialist who did extra study on blackheads and melanoma.

@livelaughlove21,
That’s kind of sad. I think everyone should be able to experience unbridled passion where you’re reduced to your base animal instincts at least once in their life. It makes you feel connected to the universe.

@Seek_Kolinahr I just went back to the higher dose I had been on previously when the tri-cyclen made me nuts. Not very high dose, but considered highish I guess. It was the 1+50. When I once was going to do a fertility cycle they put me on some other birth control after not having taken any in many years. I assume it was a higher dose also, since they want to be sure to control your cycle, that drug also no problem for me, never felt like I was taking anything. On the regular lower dose I felt fine, just had the breakthrough you mentioned. I’m glad the tri-cyclen worked out for you.

@Dutchess_III I just think it is awful that the government, or a third party insurer, or almost even worse, the views of society about women and their sexuality, cause a doctor to have to manipulate their medical advice. Or, manipulate the truth.

@livelaughlove21 For me it wasn’t always desperation. Back when I was younger and didn’t have GYN problems, just being near my SO we would want to be physically connected. Sometimes it was “sex” for just a minute or two and we didn’t necessarily climax. Lying in bed, or even the middle of the night, he might slip inside of me and then because we were exhausted we would stop and fall asleep. Anytime together could possiby lead to sex. Sometimes full out acrobatics, sometimes a quicky, sometimes a sleepy moment of bonding. Condoms would be a royal pain, especially for those sleepy times. I miss that all the time sex is a possibility feeling. I wish it was so easy still.

@Seek_Kolinahr I would imagine the insurance companies would assign more importance to a gynecological visit than one to a dermatologist.

Having argued all of this, I honestly don’t believe anyone is going to be able to “prevent” women from having access to birth control. If they did, they’d have to outlaw male birth control, aka condoms.

@Dutchess_III I think women are required to have a yearly pap if they are prescribed birth control, unless that has changed? A GP can prescribe them, which possibly is a cheaper visit than a GYN.

@Judi Don’t be sad for me. Sex isn’t a huge priority of mine – I could go without for months. I love my husband, find him very attractive, and enjoy being with him, but I’ll never have that intense need for sex with him or anyone else. Even when we were 18 and having sex much more often than we do now. Oh well, it doesn’t bother me.

@JLeslie I’d rather sleep. :) And I don’t care how tired my husband is, he’s not penetrating me without eventually climaxing. I’ve actually never heard of anything like that before. Not sure what I’d get out of it either. Closeness, sure, but that’s what cuddling is for.

@Dutchess_III I don’t think anyone is trying to outlaw birth control, it’s a matter of Democrats paternal “take care of them because they can’t take care of themselves” attitude that some people have a problem with.

I don’t think they are either.

@KNOWITALL
That is complete nonsense.
The opposite is true. Democrats respect a woman’s right to choose, both in terms of birth control as well as abortion. And as such they want to provide choices. Whether or not a woman chooses to use birth control or abortion is up to her.

Republicans on the other hand do not respect the right to choose. That is why they force women to be vaginally penetrated by ultrasound probes if they want an abortion. That is why they force women to reveal to their employer why they are on birth control pills, and then they allow the employer to fire her for his religious reasons.
Republicans want to control women, because they abhor the thought of women choosing for themselves.

@ragingloli I disagree. Women do choose for themselves (and did even when illegal btw.)

What some Republicans feel, myself included, is that abortion is not good for anyone in many ways, so prevention and education are the keys to success. So that 15 yr old girl will say ‘no’ instead of ‘yes’ and prevent all the misery & trauma for everyone involved. Why you think that villainous is the question.

@KNOWITALL
”so prevention and education”
Is that why they oppose actual sex education and instead try to impose their “abstinence only” nonsense?

@KNOWITALL I don’t think of it that way. I think of it in terms of society. I’m a Democrat and I don’t want people having bunches of babies who can’t afford them that I will have to pay for, and I worry about the children who have a harder time growing up in difficult circumstances. Republicans want to trust that women will “control their libido” and not have children unless they can afford them. And, teens will be abstinent, and accidents don’t happen. It seems like Republicans burying their heads in the sand again. Like spending money on the Iraq war want have financial consequences and our generation should take responsibility for it. I had to LOL when Republicans kept complaining that the deficit was going to be passed down to their children and grandchildren. Yeah, because they won’t pay the bill themselves. Not that Obama has reduced the deficit, but Democrats know mathematically we need to raise taxes to pay for money spent or we go deeper and deeper in the hole.

Not all Democrats are poor living on the dole (I know you already know that) so we who can support ourselves just fine don’t really relate to statements made by Republicans that we want the government to just take care of us and don’t take personal responsibility.

You might remember your Q about savings, a whole bunch of liberals pointed out that people need to save so they don’t hit a bad time and become dependent on social services just because they hit a rough patch. Democrats are not happy about using tax money to support people who cannot support themselves, but we are not going to let people go hungry, we are not naive, and we rather people be able to earn enough to support themselves and pay for themselves. Some people can’t do it. Mentally can’t do it. Sometimes it is because our wages are too low, and a working person still can barely afford food and shelter, and sometimes people abuse the system. If a woman, poor or not, wants to control and plan pregnancies, I figure that is better for everyone, and I don’t mind putting some money into a pot to help pay for it, whether it be group insurance or government healthcare.

I agree…so much is on society. One of the BIGGEST issues now is that it is no longer a stigma to have a child out of wedlock. It’s almost the norm. And the expectations of the father’s have changed too….they are no longer expected to man up to their responsibility.

But….let’s blame the women.

@ragingloli Handing out condoms and pills to everyone is not ideal if that’s what you mean. I had a health class in hs and watching a live childbirth worked pretty well for me as far as birth control- lol

I don’t believe a child keeping their innocence and focusing on school is a bad thing either. Abstinence is good and realistic.

@JLeslie People who want to be loved pyschologically crave physical/ mental connections, girls with daddy issues crave male attention. The dissolution of the family unit is, imo, directly related to this issue. So you’re right in that society as a whole is part of the problem.

@Dutchess_III The women are the only ones who can have a child so obviously our attention focuses on female issues. There’s still an awful lot of families out there that are okay with junior knocking boots as long as he doesn’t bring the problem home, let’s be real here.

@Dutchess_III I walk the thin line of stigma for babies out of wedlock and supporting girls who do have babies out of wedlock. I think young people should be freaked out if they get pregnant, they should know it is a difficult situation and adults think it is a huge mistake. The whole prolife push has also meant that out there in society is the constant message every child is a blessing, life begins at conception, and in some communities having a baby in high school is all too statiscally normal and accepted.

However, I also believe once the pregnancy is staying around and then the baby is born the family and community should rally around the mother and baby to give everyone the best situation possible. If I had a daughter who had a baby at 16 I would sacrifice my own time and money to make sure my daughter was able to finish school and pursue her goals. I would not deliver her lines like, “well, you got yourself into this, it’s your responsibility.” Sure she needs to be responsible, but she still is just a 16 year old girl, and I want her life to be all it can be. It deoends on the situation of course, this is assuming the 16 year old is a good child, with the right attitude, who will take advantage if my help si she can pursue worthwhile goals to become a responsible adult.

So, I kind of go back and forth with bringing back the shame of children born to young mothers, and not wanting them to be outcasts or have to birth their babies in secret.

@KNOWITALL
”Handing out condoms and pills to everyone is not ideal if that’s what you mean.”
It is NOT about handing out pills and condoms. It is making them an available option and teaching them that they exist and that they work.
”Abstinence is good and realistic.”
Yet “abstinence only” education does not work.

I don’t understand why anyone would be against birth control in the first place.

I have a daughter who had a baby at 16. She dropped out of high school. I pretty much raised him until he was 5. When I told my family she was going to go to college and would graduate they jeered in derision. “She’ll be nothing but a welfare mom for the rest of her life!” They never did apologize, even after she obtained her bachelors in business.

@KNOWITALL Ok, we are agreeing. Do you think the availability of contraception is a good thing for those willing to use it if they are going to be having sex? It doesn’t matter what we think they should do. If they should work on why, why psychologically, they are having sex, the reality is they are having sex. Plus, not all people having sex have daddy issues, but I agree the dissolution of the family has cintributed to sone problems. Even in healthy families 16 year olds have sex though. It would be great if we addressed some of the underlying problems for unplanned pregnancies. I do think we can be critical of some of our social systems encouraging the poor to not be married and giving out money for children born.

@Dutchess_III Good for you for always believing in your daughter! They should apologize or admit they were wrong or do something to show how proud they are of her overcoming all the difficulty she went through.

@ragingloli They ARE an available option, you can buy them at any Walgreens or grocery store for under $10.

Abstinence only does work for a lot of people, but only those who have self-discipline. Ask anyone who got pregnant early and I’m sure they’ll admit that it was a bad or stupid decision, or they weren’t thinking, or they got caught up in the moment, or some other excuse for poor decision-making. This isn’t rocket-science on an individual basis.

@JLeslie So throwing condoms down to your 15 year old son is a good thing? Instead of having a conversation about STD’s and repercussions? I’m not adding any moral factors to this you’ll note.

@KNOWITALL I fully support the conversation about STD’s. I want the kid to use condoms even if the chick is using BC pills, because condoms reduce the transmission of STD’s and BC pills don’t. I also would want my children to take sex seriously, I am a little bothered by some of the casualness about sex in this current generation. Many of my friends have had bad pap smears, chlamydia, and other STD’s. A young jelly a few days ago was afraid he gave his girlfriend herpes. If you look at previous Q’s I have all sorts of warning about how sex can make us sick. I wish children understood better about the risks to their physical health, instead of dwelling on just thinking their parents don’t want them to do it for moral reasons. I think the moral reasons actually screw the message up, because it is something for teens to rebel against.

Yep. Have a conversation about STDs, while they’re spreading fearmongering BS about Gardasil and preventing access to condoms – which prevent them.

I gave full disclosure to my kids when they were about 10. We discussed STD’s, pregnancy, emotional consequences, etc. I implored them to wait until they were much older, preferably married. I also told them not to allow sex to “just happen.” They can plan for it and if they needed help they could come to me. My middle daughter did, when she was about 15. I cried a little, but we got her taken care of. She was amazingly responsible about it for 15. About a year later she found out that her boyfriend had had sex with another girl. They broke up for a while, then got together again, but she refused to have sex with him unless he used a condom because of his prior indiscretion. (I only know about this because they got picked up for trying to shoplift condoms! Found out at the police department. Don’t know why she didn’t come to me. Embarrassment perhaps.)

@Dutchess_III Wait, is that the same daughter who got pregnant at 16? You might be killing our argument. :)

I actually think adults should emphasize to kids sex is for adults, rather than marriage. Marriage is later now, and it is unrealistic to wait until marriage I think. The biggest negative is when young people marry to have sex, which still happens.

No. It’s my middle daughter. My oldest got pregnant at 16. She was a mess. My ex-husband had moved to Seattle a couple of years earlier and took her with him, against my pleading not to, for company I guess. They wound up in a homeless shelter. There he met his next wife, and dumped my daughter. Pretty much kicked her out on the street. I tried to bring her home then, he threw a fit. “You ain’t taking my daughter away from ME!” That kind of shit.
Then his girlfriend (future wife) then got pregnant. My daughter got pregnant on the heels of that…..at that point he FINALLY sent her home to me.

@JLeslie I think Sex = Baby is the best way to get it across. Teen Mom has apparently worked to some degree so maybe we should continue that momentum.

My mom was also open with me about sex and our school (in the bible belt btw) was open to discussion in health class which was required.

Lord, my school wasn’t! I asked a question about getting pregnant while on one’s period. My teacher turned beet read and started stammering.

@Dutchess_III I’m just glad I don’t have children and don’t have to worry about this issue. Peace out.

It is heartbreaking @KNOWITALL. But man I love my grandkids, however they got here! Some of the best times of my life where when I was raising my grandson.

@Dutchess_III That must have been very hard for you to watch. Ugh, thank goodness she turned everything around.

@KNOWITALL Sex can equal baby. The reality is people all over the world have sex and don’t get pregnant, kids know that. What they tend not to know is how many people really do get sick from sex. Our puritanical society quiets that message. People are ashamed to speak out about it. The gay community is one of the few communities that is fairly open about it, and now that Merck can make a lot of money on their vaccine for HPV they have opened the conversation about HPV and cervical cancer. Ironically, I dn’t think women previously were ashamed of a bad pap smear, because they didn’t realize their boyfriend gave them the dysplasia or cancer. Now, I guess we realize it, but people also realize it is extremely common.

@Dutchess_III I also find it heartbreaking that people like my mom & your daughter have to sacrifice all their dreams for children they didn’t plan on having that early in life. I’ve seen a lot of pain and hopelessness with unmarried women and I’m just so sick of it.

@JLeslie, I had dysphasia in my twenties (early 80’s) and it wasn’t until last year that I realized it was probably caused by an STD. The doctors never told me and I figured it out reading all this stuff about the vaccine.

“Abstinence only” education is a goddamn joke. Sure, you can tell your kid “just don’t do it ok” and hope that they won’t. That’s what my grandmother tried with my mom, and what my grandmother’s mother tried with her. The result? Grandmother was pregnant at 15 and mom was pregnant at 16. Mom tried a different direction with us, including frank discussions about possible repercussions of sex, but also recognizing that we probably would be having sex at some point and so educating us about ways to protect ourselves. That result? My sister didn’t have kids until she was grown and married and I’ve never had children (of course I’ve never wanted children ether, but thanks to my mother for ensuring that I knew enough to empower myself to avoid it).

@Judi In the 80’s “we” knew. I know girls who had dysplasia and some who actually had full blown cancer in the 80’s and the doctors never told them. Either the doctors didn’t know or the doctors didn’t want to upset their patients, or the doctors saw no point in mentioning. Any one dctor could have any one or combination of those reasons. I learned it in the late 80’s because my girlfriend had dysplasia and she told me because the military doctors talked about it when she had been a nurse in the military.

I had trich when I was a teen, an STD, and my doctor knew I was sexually active, she prescribed my BC pills, and she told me I might have not gotten it from my boyfriend, which I think is ridiculous. How does that help me? She only treated me, and then of course I got sick again after having sex again. Then I to take the meds again (which was very difficult for me, I am a very bad oill swallower, especially back then) and he took them too. Finally it was gone. Even if I had caught it from a toilet seat I was sexually active with him, so I would have given it to him, and we both would need to be treated. Not treating both of us from the start was negligent. He wound up to be a big time cheater, I would have been better off being disgusted and leaving him then.

I have found that for the most part only GYN’s tend to be in tune with how many STD’s happen.

@KNOWITALL Where did you get the idea that my daughter sacrificed all of her dreams?

But I agree…it does happen. That’s why they need education about, and access to, birth control.

I just came back to this thread and read down from, I don’t know, somewhere above the anal leakage answer and it appears to me that several of the ladies on this site are spending time on Fluther instead of having wild passionate sex with their respective Significant Others.
It seems to assist them in keeping their libido in check thus making this site a form of birth control.
Lordy, lordy, don’t tell the Republicans about it.

Anal leakage was NOT my idea @rojo!