How much do you think doctors should make?

I think a regular doctor should make about $150k per year. A specialist (i.e. orthopedist) should make $150–200 and a surgeon (i.e. cardiac surgeon, orthopedic surgeon) should make $250k.

40–45 hour week? I don’t think I know any Drs. that work so little – charting time is not built into the schedule anywhere that I’ve worked – nor is fielding phone calls with other clinicians for coordination of care or with the patients themselves. Research is done on our own time, too – reading journals or looking into unusual symptoms a patient might present with. Only when attending a conference or seminar is education/research time built into a schedule. On-call time with 24–7 availability – is that included in your 40–45 hour week too, or in addition to it? What about having to own and maintain a vehicle that is certain to get them to the hospital under any conditions?

What about the stress of having people’s lives in their hands; and having to pay out the wazoo for malpractice insurance because they are, in fact, humans themselves. What about having the mother lode of Student Loans to pay back, and State Licensure and Board Certifications and dues, and continuing education class fees to pay? Even as just an ancillary provider, my 2 professional licenses and 2 Certifications/Fellowships cost me about $600/year.

In my opinion, Physicians and Teachers should be the highest paid professions – not celebrities and athletes. The problem is that health care and education outcomes are very difficult to qualify because of the variability among the patients and students, so a ‘merit’ based compensation system is challenging, if not impossible.

@hearkat On call is above and beyond the 40–45 in my scenerio, and I said on call once a week. I know some specialties have more on call and doctors who have sole private practices have more on call, but for my scenerio let’s say they typically are on call nce a week. I am not counting doctors paying other staff members or paying for malpractice, I am talking about the doctor’s take home salary. Student loans and professional licenses don’t count either for this exercise. Most professionals have to pay for their license, continuing ed, and even student loans. Sometimes the company the prifessional works for will pay for some of the certifications required, sometimes not. As far as reading and research, I meant specific to a patient and not general reading because of their interest in their field nor does reading for certification and licensing count.

Your hours and weeks of vacation are WAY out-of-whack from reality. At least for a busy surgeon. In many cases, surgeons are reimbursed less than the equivalent procedure performed on a dog by a vet. When you factor in the cost of doing emergency procedures on the uninsured (getting a call at 3AM to come right away) who will never pay, and the incredibly high costs of running a medical practice and its easy to conclude its not a field one should get into to become rich.

Most of the money in healthcare seems to make its way into the pockets of hospital administrators, execs of the major corporations that own hospitals, insurance companies (which siphon out money from the system and add tons of waste and bureaucracy to the system), and pharmaceutical companies/medical device manufacturers. I know reps that make more than double what surgeons make (over $600K/year for one device rep). I’m all for money being used to R&D breakthrough new medications (which is the argument used to protect their cash cow business model), but it seems like most of those huge profits aren’t beIng reinvested for finding cures to diseases.

To answer your question, I think what they currently make is about right, maybe a little low. The problem is other people making way too much on their hard work and expertise(driving up the cost of healthcare for everyone). I don’t think we want people to become doctors to become hugely wealthy, we want people to get into healthcare because they genuinely care about helping the sick get well. I would like to see things like reimbursements for the educational costs, and changes to the way malpractice works.

As much as they are worth to sick people.

@gorillapaws I didn’t even name a salary and you are calling my numbers way out of whack? Pretty much every medical professional I know gets at least 4 weeks vacation. My uncle was a workaholic and he barely took vacations during his busiest years and he worked many more hours than I named, but he made $1million a year literally. If a doctor is working more he can make more, but I am talking about working similar hours to other professionals. Most professionals work more than 40 hours, have to maintain their license, have reliable transportation, something @hearkat mentioned. What doctor, lawyer, VP of a company thinks about their transportation as part of the expense of their profession? They aren’t bringing patients anywhere like a realtor who needs a 4 person car. Doctors need fewer items of professional clothing than I needed working at Bloomingdale’s.

Go ahead and give what salary you think is fair based on how much work you think/know doctors usually work. What’s your number?

I also want some of the changes you mentioned by the way. I want doctors to not have such huge education costs and I want doctors to primarily go into medicine because they are interested in medicine and want to help people.

Scrubs, lab coats, laundering of said items or replacing if they get splattered? A pair of Danskos or other comfortable professional footwear is well over $100. Our Drs. wear suits and ties under their lab coats during office hours, which are expensive and need to be dry cleaned – I am confident their wardrobe expenses will rival your Bloomie’s wardrobe.

The numbers you offer in terms of time invested into their jobs are what is out-of-whack, and @gorillapaws specifically states that. Doctors do consider their transportation, because they are on-call and have to get to one or several hospitals in a region in various weather conditions. They are of no use to their patients if they’re broken down on the side of the road, or in a ditch in a snowstorm.

The only doctors who really get rich in today’s healthcare environment are those who perform non-covered medical procedures, like cosmetics, because they are not restricted by insurance pay schedules and do not have to treat people who won’t pay, because of the reasons @gorillapaws mentions.

@hearkat I have no problem with people correcting actual hours worked, but the transportation thing I say is ridiculous. What professional making $100+ a year doesn’t have reliable transportation, come on. It sounds like when teachers complain they grade papers at home, and teachers don’t want to count only working 10 months a year. Most professionals work over 40 hours a week.

A friend of mine is an orthopedic surgeon, and he schedules all his surgeries on Monday so that most weeks by Friday there is nothing for him to do. Most patients are recovered and put of the hospital by then. He is on call 24/7 since he has his own private practice, although recently he hired a nurse practitioner, so maybe she fields calls. He does wind up working a lot of hours mon-thur. He often has three day weekends though, often drives out to his lakehouse in the summer for the long weekend. It’s an hour from his primary home if he has to come back for an emergency. He went on a 3 week Italian vacation last year. He’ll be in California for a week coming up soon. I know some specialties are more difficult and more time consuming than others. If I had to guess I think my friend probably makes around $300+. Just by his vacations, how many kids he put through college, some through masters programs, his house, his second house, I know he saves for retirment, his luxurious taste, his 6–7 cars at a time. Some classic cars, a new Porsche and a new Mercedes.

How many weeks vacation do you and your doctors take?

What salary do you think is fair for doctors considering what you know first hand about their work schedule?

The typical doctor in a medical practice will have their lab coats and things covered under expenses, not pay out of their pocket. They may even get mileage reimbursed if on call.

When I go to the doctor, he may be wearing dress pants and a dress shirt. He may have a sports coat hanging on a hook in his office, but he’s not wearing 3 piece suits on a regular basis. Shoes – any profession needs shoes and some more expensive than others. I’d be happy to have a nice pair of dress shoes cost $100.

My weight loss surgeon probably makes half a mil per year. He is part of a medical practice of other weight loss surgeons and nurses, and they’re on call and all visit each other’s patients, just like when I had the baby. The obstetrician is part of a medical practice where they all see each other’s patients, so on the day you have to go to the hospital to have the baby, whoever is on call (sleeping in the hospital) will see you. There were 5 doctors so each one gets a night. Maybe they don’t have to sleep there, they might have the option of getting to stay home and come in when called (and therefore, live fairly close to the hospital).

How does minimum wage sound?

@hearkat: I am confused as to how cars, shoes and clothes would be different than for any other profession? A doctor is not the only type of professional who needs reliable transportation to get to work in inclement weather. Shoes? Clothes? Most professionals needs to dress reasonably well – suits, shoes, ladies with nice suits.

I found this cute demo regardng stats on physicians and their lifestyle, including vacation days, free time, marital status, happiness, and other things. Click here if you are interesed.

Plus, let’s not forget uniforms sometimes meet the IRS requirements for being tax deductable if they are not considered suitable for daily street dress. My bloomingdale’s clothing doesn’t qualify, but scrubs would. Although my doctor friend wears his scrubs a lot of places LOL. Especially when we see him at the race track, but a lot of our drivers wear scrubs there. Although, his say do not remove from Baptist, so I guess he doesn’t even pay for them?

To modify @josie‘s response: As much as they are worth to whoever consults them professionally, whether sick or well.

What the market will bear.

Don’t forget insurance. An obstetrician may be paying a $100,000+ premium for public indemnity insurance.

Here’s an interesting blog from a doctor, who explains that malpractice insurance is not as high as people believe it is.

I’m going to do some research, asking a CPA in my family who does lots of tax work for doctors and physicians’ groups, and also a friend who teaches nursing and is also a nurse herself.

In the meantime, here’s the link for the blog written by the doctor:
http://truecostofhealthcare.org/malpractice

I want to say that I am not trying to say doctors are overpaid or underpaid, I was just curious what people think they should be paid. I don’t have some secret agenda for this Q, although I do have my own opinion on salaries. I would fall between $125k-$500k I think. Newer less experienced doctors towards the low end and very specialized at the high end. Working more hours might mean more pay, but I am just talking a typical work week.

@Rarebear Do you think it is a fair marketplace? People will mortgage their homes and charge up their credit cards to be healthy and stay alive. Nothing can really stop the doctor from naming a price, except in states like Maryland maybe where there are some laws. The doctor and those poividing medical treatment have a very strong hold on the market. We can skip going to the doctor for some things, but skipping it too much or not getting immediate treatment for certain conditions can mean the person is left disabled or dead.

Pharma has the same type of hold on us and even testing. Like the breast cancer gene test. The lab that does it has an exclusive on it so they can charge sky high prices for the test. I know someone has to pay for the research, but pharma and that sort of testing make a boat load of money, they aren’t just covering costs.

@jca Your link reminds me of how medical billing is done in general. You get a bill saying your treatment was $435, but you are so smashing lucky you have insurance and you only have to pay $35, because that is the negotiated price through your insurance. The generalmpublic has no idea how much self pay is for most procedures, sometimes less than with insurance, and very often the doctor makes more money if his patient has insurance, because insurance and the patient is paying, which can add up to more than self pay. Now, your articel points out how the public believes doctors pay huge amounts for insurance, which isn’t necessarily true, depending on the specialty.

Lately, I have seen on some news shows more and more about billing and medical care costs. I hope the people working to make billing more transparent keep up the work. Not to hurt doctors, but to stop the slight of hand in billing. It must be annoying for doctors to deal with it also.

If I have to go under the knife or have some other procedure, I really don’t want Walt the janitor assisting. I’ll pay a little more for a well trained competent doctor.

Minimum wage plus they should get what ever they need plus their student loan should be paid.
And a special funeral with lights that last for thousands of years.

@Adirondackwannabe Well, supposedly there are laws to protect us from a janitor doing surgery. You’ll pay a little more, but how much more? Let’s say your local guy costs $3,000 for a procedure and the one who is well known in his fields charges $15,000? My neighbor paid $10,000 for something that should have cost $500, maybe $750 at most. She was ripped off for fear of cancer and a scar. Seriously, he was a thief. A friend of hers who was a doctor confirmed it after the fact. The other doctor took advantage.

Yay @Cruiser! I was just thinking about you and missing you when I saw your post on an old question!

As much as they want…A doctor faces the challenge of sharing their passion of their desire to help people navigate the choppy waters of health and disease. To me that is avocation that you can not put a price on….sadly actuaries can and that has put pressure on doctors to treat their patients like cattle to meet the quotas their “practices” demand they meet.

I will gladly pay my trusted Doctor what he deems fair to govern my health and being.

@janbb…happy new year young lady!

@JLeslie My father was diagnosed with Barrets and my dad sought consult with the best surgeon in his area. This trusted Doc said his cancerous tumor was operable and the prospect to have a “normal” outcome had high prospects.

Long story short my father died on the operating table and my own doctor told me had my dad survived the surgery…the cancer would have returned and taken him in less than 8 months. So I ask….why…why did this doctor think it was in my dad’s best interest to have this surgery in the first place???

I unfortunately will never know the answer to this question.

I asked my friend who teaches nursing, is a nurse, has been a nurse for about 40 years. She said malpractice for doctors is about 20k per year and when they belong to a medical practice, the practice will pay for the insurance.

@Cruiser Surgeons will almost always recommend surgery if they can. It’s not always just for the money, I think they really believe most of the time when recommending it that it is the best option, or at least a good option. I can’t know what that particular doctor was thinking. My guess is he wanted to give your dad more time, and could make some cash doing it. Some patients want the possibility of the extra few months.

It’s just awful that happened to your father and your family. Second guessing doctors has made me a nervous wreck in my life. The only thing that calms me is to think they are human too, and can make mistakes. I try not to punish myself for choosing to do something medically that turns out to have bad results. I have had so many near misses with doctors recommending things that would have been awful (most likely not deadly though) if I had done them. Seriously, life changing surgeries. Thank God I refused and sought second and third opinions. I have done procedures that I very much regret on a doctor’s recommendation, things that negatively affected the rest of my life. I paid those doctors too. I assume your dad’s surgeon was paid also. This is part of the reason I think socialized medicine is better. We are asked to pay even when we have bad outcomes, it is awful. Even if the doctor did nothing wrong, it feels awful.

@JLeslie I do appreciate your comments and do realize the risks of unknown outcomes of any medical procedure….my dad’s being an extreme. That said, the moment the surgeon discovered the tumor was attached to the aorta, he knew it was game over and should have simply sewn my dad up and called it instead of attempting a now super high risk procedure to detach the tumor from the aorta. His slip up severed my dad’s aorta essentially killing him when he could have lived another 8 months or more. I guess I am simply bitter I did not get that chance to say goodbye to my dad.

And had we had socialized medicine @JLeslie…the actuaries most certainly would have denied my dad that option to have that surgery that if successful would have bought my dad a few more years he hoped to have by having that surgery. Despite the outcome….
I am glad he had that option.

@Cruiser I see. So, the surgeon did not know for sure how the tumor was attached until he had started the surgery, and then you feel he made a bad decision. I’m really sorry to hear that story, I would be bitter too. More than bitter.

Well @JLeslie there is an upside to the story. He played in a golf tournament the day before the surgery and he and we were spared the prospect of watching him die an awful death from that cancer. But I didn’t go down to be with him for the surgery as he asked me not to as we all expected it to be routine. :( I have also come to find out I have precancerous lesions on my esophagus as my Doc said my dad probably had signs of this at my age and lo and behold I did as well.

@Cruiser :)