Do Americans love guns too much?

1. We are not only white people.
2. Potentially.
3. No.
4. Partially, but we decide what we adopt into our daily lives.

1. Believe it or not white people aren’t the only scared ones.

2. Freedom, to liberty, and property requires such defense I guess.

3. If you live in NYC you’re probably more likely to be more aware of your surroundings compared to living in Salt Lake City where you might know everyone in the neighborhood.

4. No lol, if someone can’t decipher facts and from fiction with a high school education then that’s they’re problem. Again this is why religion is dumb when it’s combined with politics. Think about it, there’s a lot of philosophy that one is told to “just believe” there’s a lot of cultish/prejudice going on in certain religions that cloud the judgement of “reality.”

As an outsider looking in, the gun culture suggests a lot of Americans are frightened of their own shadows.

@ucme It’s also probably why other countries are hesitant to attack U.S. soil.

But you must understand our society is such on edge because we’re literally set up to run over each other in order to get a career. Sure we can be nice about it, but the reality is it’s a dog eat dog world over here.

And if you’re not one of the dogs eating, you’re licking scrapes off welfare.

(Ok pretty over the top answer from me, it’s more subtle than that)

It’s all about where eyou live and how you grew up. You couldn’t take my ex Navy Seal uncle who owns s crap ton of rifles away from him, or one could, but they’d probably die.

On the other hand, many city gun owners have turned in their weapons after the elementary school shootings.

There’s a lot of generalizations within the major media but there’s also a lot of good coverage out there.

Give a dog a bone eh?

Some surely do. Like most of them.

More than I would prefer.

Do Priests love little boys too much?

1. Yes. Scared of muslims, scared of mexicans, scared of black people, scared of “communists”.
2. Yes. The vibe I am getting from colonial culture and politics is the view that violence is the solution to all problems.
3. They are not neighbours. They are ” the others”.
4. No. The media is only a mirror.

1. Are we a nation of scared white people? I think latinos are in the majority now, if not it’s close.

2. Are we a violent people? Yes. Our nation was born out of war and it’s what keeps us united.

3 Are we afraid of our neighbors? People only fear what they don’t understand. Not understanding is a choice.

4. is the media to blame for our views on society? Our views come from our own personal worldview. Whether the media is aligned with that or not is irrelevant.

Guns are not the problem in our society. Stupid people are. They come in all shades.

@DWW25921: True, but stupid people with guns are much more dangerous than stupid people without guns.

@DWW25921 :: Try 17%. Once again. Those pesky facts.

Yes the media is indeed to blame for much of the fears that affect people in our society especially fat hypocrite Liberals like Michael Moore who lives in a mega mansion with an around the clock security detail that is armed to the teeth.

1. Are we a nation of scared, white people? Not at all.
2. Are we a violent people? Perhaps, it took gumption to immigrate after all.
3 Are we afraid of our neighbors? Not at all.
4. Is the media responsible for our views on society? Yes.

@cookieman True but an armed society tends to curb stupidity faster than a defenseless one.

Real Americans don’t need guns. They use their minds.

@johnpowell I know that one’s not true. I think it’s in it’s high 30’s. I’m not going to look it up though. I just don’t care anymore bud. This crap drives me nuts.

Was this high school? College?what “class?” Michael Moore is a political hack who does not belong in a classroom.

@elbanditoroso Someone threatening your kids while on meth or heroin could give a rats less about your mind…lol

Too many of ‘em sure love the outdated second amendment too much.

@DWW25921: I figure an educated society to be better equipped to curb stupidity. I’d rather strive for that.

Most Americans are living in a Wild West cowboy movie.

Protecting your family in emergencies
Personal safety and self defense
Preventing and deterring crimes
Detaining criminals for arrest
Guarding our national borders
Preserving our interests abroad
Helping defend our allies
Overcoming tyranny
International trade
Emergency preparedness
Commerce and employment
Historical preservation and study
Obtaining food by hunting
Olympic competition
Collecting
Sporting pursuits
Target practice
Recreational shooting

I’m going to nitpick. International trade? Did you google this list? Please. Enlighten me. How does Duck Dynasty having guns promote international trade?

@johnpowell “How does Duck Dynasty having guns promote international trade?”

Where did I say Duck Dynasty having guns promotes international trade?
These are simply the noble uses of firearms.

I was being flippant. We should try again. How does the right to bear arms integrate with International Trade?

1. Not all of us are white, or scared.
2. There will always be bad violent people in the world. If there are not good people willing to be equally violent, the bad people will win.
3. No, but some of them bear watching more than others.
4.Yes.

Ohhhhhhhh…...

http://www.gunlaws.com/noble.htm

Copy and paste much?

1. Are we a nation of scared, white people?
Scared of what exactly? Each other? Terrorism? Crime? The poor government officials currently in power right now? I can’t currently point a finger at anything I’m overtly scared of at the moment. And why does it have to be just scared white people? America has a very diverse ethnic population. Many other groups might be scared too.

2. Are we a violent people?
Every nation on this earth has the potential to have violent individuals in its population and that’s been profoundly demonstrated by historical events for decades. As far as American citizens being inherently violent. I certainly don’t think so. The United States currently has a population of 313 million people and I would venture a guess that a large portion of those people don’t engage in routine violence.

3 Are we afraid of our neighbors?
Not from any indications that I see. We are, arguably, the world’s last superpower on the planet and we also have the most technologically advanced military there is. So, looking at this from the standpoint of our country being threatened by force, no, we’re not afraid our neighbors. Looking at it financially, for instance, yes, we’re probably afraid of say…..China….because they hold a lot of our debt and they are gaining serious momentum on financial dominance in the world market.

4. Is the media responsible for our views on society?
The media is definitely at fault for being irresponsible in how they report the news on a lot of occasions. Like the former governor of Minnesota Jesse Ventura once said, “The media is no longer in the business of reporting the news, they are in the business of creating the news.” It is in each person’s own perception of what they believe when they watch the news and whether they decide to put faith in what is actually being reported to them. I sometimes like to look for additional confirmation of what I see on the news from other sources because I don’t often believe what I’m being lied to told about on the news.

@johnpowell It’s always money.

As of 2008, Britain has become the worlds leading developer of arms with British company BAE Systems- Wiki

Kinda fucked up the copy and paste there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

Word for word.

And from @johnpowell‘s same website, just below the list: “Many of us long for a gun-free world. If only we could get rid of all the guns, such a major portion of our problems would just evaporate. A huge source of anxiety would be gone forever.

It’s actually quite easy to imagine a gun free world, because we’ve been there—Ghengis Khan, Attilla the Hun, Julius Caeser—that’s what a gun-free world looks like. They wiped out entire cities, burned them to the ground, killed, raped, pillaged, without the guns.”

So I think what we’re really saying is, we want a world without guns, in an era of prosperity, abundance, harmony and enduring peace. To get there, we must be a race of people without the Four Horsemen of Human Havoc—angry, hungry, stupid and wicked.”

It never hurts to put in perspective what a “gun-free” world looks like.

1. Are we a nation of scared, white people?
Speak for yourself. I am white, and the only thing that scares me is the IRS. And I am very conservative when it comes to avoiding taxation.
2. Are we a violent people?
Some gangster/drug dealers and psychotic creepazoids are violent. Generally the rest of us are not.
3 Are we afraid of our neighbors?
My neighbors are great. They look out for my place when I am out of town. I cook out for them in the summer.
4. Is the media responsible for our views on society?
Actions of some people in society are responsible for my view on society, in spite of media propaganda

@snowberry excellent point.

I can’t believe they made you watch that film in class, especially without showing a documentary with opposing views. What a great way to form a new generation of sheeple.

@ucme I just wanted to ask, what percentage of Americans do you believe actually own guns? Because the way you said, “As an outsider looking in, the gun culture suggests a lot of Americans are frightened of their own shadows.”

That answer to me suggest you probably believe every other citizen has a gun. You also go on to think there is “one” kind of “American.” Each freakin’ individual state has it’s own majority culture and then each city, to each town. It’s really not fair that you’re generalizing it. (Do I blame you or your media?)

@pleiades I neither know nor care what percentage own guns. Nowhere did I even suggest there to be “one” kind of “American’ so maybe you just made that up for reasons known only to yourself. I’m not generalising anything, so I guess you should blame yourself for getting carried away with your emotions.

There are too many guns at this point and even if they were banned from every state, you could never take them from everyone, the only thing it would do is drive up the value and demand. So it doesn’t really matter if white people or americans are obsessed with guns.
Interesting fact…the city I used to live in has had 30+ gun murders in the last year alone….only a couple of the victims were white and none of the shooters were white. I’ve lived in some really rough neighborhoods and being white made me feel safer to be honest, because no one is going to look at the white girl and assume she is in a rival gang or affiliated with one.

Warning: answer of a Non-American
1. I don’t think so. I know some very brave white Americans.
2. I don’t think so. There are still very gentle Americans throughout the history.
3. Probably. But then again, everyone has someone to fear.
4. Probably. But people with enough common sense don’t let the media dominate their view of the world.

no, no, no, and perhaps… It is the collection of liberal, anti-gun, anti-second amendment and anti-American propaganda. This onslaught of lies makes the naïve believe that it is the gun, rather than the sickos and low lives, who go and ruin it for law-abiding citizens like myself. I am a moderate democrat, before one goes and labels me otherwise.

I don’t think it has as much to do with fear as it does toward freedom.. Take cigarettes for instance.. Smokers have had that freedom stripped from them at every level (be it right or wrong) now imagine the mind thought if guns were being taken away in this same manner.. Right now, gun owners only have to deal with politics and a small minority of anti-gun advocates.. What would you think if the entire nation suddenly advocated those same demands? Virtually looking down on gun owners, insurance companies refusing to insure gun owners (or at least raising premiums) labor refusing to hire anyone who owns a gun, etc., etc, This is what the gun owners are afraid of so they fight tooth and nail in hopes it won’t catch on to the so-called ‘moral’ majority.

I don’t believe in judging an entire country. Some of you guys are violent, some are scared.

That said, it feels great to live in a country where the scared and violent people have a hard time obtaining weapons.

The answers to questions 1, 3 and 4 is a decided YES. A yes answer for number 2 need only be exhibited by one tenth of one percent of the population to trigger immediate proof that the answers to numbers 1, 3 and 4 is a decided YES.

This link will explain everything.

@echotech10 I’m in love-lol!! <flutters eyelashes>

@KNOWITALL :) Thank you…. :) You made my day :)

The people who manufacture guns and ammunition love guns, and they spend a LOT of money (often on politicians) to try to get us all to think we need and love guns.

All the 2nd amendments arguments are bullshit. Founding fathers intended the arms in the hands of a “well-armed” militia to fend off foreign invaders while the U.S. has no standing army.
It is NOT intended to allow citizens to protect themselves against their own goverment. Elections are for that. Besides how stupid do you have to be to think that you and any number of well-armed citizens can take on the U.S. military? ‘VERY’ is the correct answer to that question.

@dabbler the supreme court and the constitution say otherwise. The right to keep and bear arms was intended to be a barrier against anything that would rob you of your rights. I don’t think we have to worry about the gov’t. I never really could go along with that one… at least not right now.

Maybe I’m a little rusty on my knowledge of american history, but I’m pretty sure standing up against the government is what got us the country to begin with? From what I can remember, we didnt actually have an official military at that time for the founding fathers to only be referring to.

When did we go from making students read 1984, to making them watch Michael Moore documentaries instead?

^^ no kidding, Animal farm was required reading when I was a kid.

Loving guns at all is a problem right there.

@flutherother why?

^^ Because guns are designed to kill or destroy. They serve no other purpose. Speaks volumes about folks who “love” them.

For anyone interested ABC’s 20/20 is doing a feature tonight focusing upon kids and guns.

I’ll be interested to see if they spin it or allow all sides a voice.

10 PM, EST

@cookieman They are inanimate objects like any other tool such as a knife, saw or hammer.

I don’t see any reason not to like target practice at a legitimate shooting range.
It makes a lot of blustery commotion and you get immediate feedback about the effectiveness of your skills to hit the target and practice and attention are rewarded – all good.

@ARE_you_kidding_me: Sure a knife, saw, or hammer can be used to kill or destroy, but they are primarily designed to do other things such as cut rope or food (knife) or assist in building things (saw, hammer).

Guns are designed to kill and destroy and…. nothing else. So if you “love” them, it says something about you.

Noting it’s an inanimate object does nothing to address the intent of its design. If a fellow inanimate object (your saw or hammer), which is not originally designed to kill and destroy is co-opted for that purpose, then it’s solely on the killer that wields it. A gun however, is solely an instrument of death and destruction. By its nature, it is 50% of the equation.

@cookieman Firearms have always been tools of survival and protectors of security and freedom in the right hands. In the wrong hands they are instruments of death. We don’t want them only in the wrong hands. The statistics clearly show that when the general public is armed violent crime is greatly reduced.

_1. Are we a nation of scared, white people?__
Yes, and no, it depends on which neighborhood and what time of night we are speaking of.

2. Are we a violent people?
Yes, that is why so many people feel the need to have a gun to protect them. In times past I felt the same, but I have something better to protect me now.

3 Are we afraid of our neighbors?
Do you have an alarm on your car and home, are you in a gated community? I guess that would answer the question; or at the very least you don’t trust your neighbors
even if you don’t fear them. Globally we (the US) fear our earthly neighbors even if we say we don’t; we are not spying on them just to see if we can get away with it.

4. Is the media responsible for our views on society?
No, they just mirror who we really are.

@ARE_you_kidding_me: Oh, so we’re done with the “inanimate object” discussion now? Okay, moving on…

”Firearms have always been tools of survival and protectors of security and freedom in the right hands.”

Historically, this is true, problem is, we no longer need them for survival or to protect our freedom. Millions of Americans have lived entire lives over the past hundred+ years without a gun, and yet have survived and enjoyed freedom. It’s a false premise.

”We don’t want them only in the wrong hands.”

Agreed, except, in my opinion, the “right hands” are those of law enforcement – not my neighbor’s.

”The statistics clearly show that when the general public is armed violent crime is greatly reduced.”

Source please. Although, I believe @johnpowell refuted this above.

And… you’re off topic. The OP asks if Americans “love” guns too much.

@flutherother contends that, ”Loving guns at all is a problem right there.”

You asked, “Why?”

I answered with my hypothesis that guns are designed solely to kill and destroy. They serve no other purpose. Therefore, if you claim to “love” them, it says something about you as a person.

Specifically, you “love” an inanimate object designed solely for the purpose of killing or destroying. If you “love” guns, you likely own guns and, therefore are prepared to use it for its sole, intended purpose – to kill or destroy.

Again, this says something about your personality.

No one ever says, “I love guns because they make excellent bookends” or “I love guns because they improve my gardening”.

All rationale for private citizens owning guns revolve around the potential to kill or destroy someone or something.

“To protect my home and family.” = “To potentially kill an intruder or assailant.”

“To use as a deterrent to violent criminals.” = “To threaten to kill violent criminals.”

“For hunting.” = “To kill animals.”

“For the shooting range or target practice.” = “To destroy another inanimate object.”

There is no reason to own a gun and no function a gun serves that does not involve killing or destroying at its core. If that’s what you “love”, then I want nothing to do with you.

Lots of things are designed specifically with the intent of hurting or killing something else. Pesticides kill bugs but without it people would starve since there is no such thing as pesticide free farming (organic is just overpriced bullshit). Slaughterhouses kill animals in horribly cruel ways every fucking day….but no one is complaining about it in line at KFC or McDonalds.
It’s a little hypocritical and very self righteous of you to look down on guns because they can kill things, and turn around tomorrow to go grocery shopping.

Guns were specifically invented to kill humans on the battlefield. Not for sport. Not for hunting. Not for self defence. Not to “protect freedom”. But to be used as a weapon of war.

@cheebdragon: Yes, of course other inanimate objects are designed specifically to kill and destroy and I know far too much about pesticides having worked at a 600 acre farm for five years, but here’s the difference:

• Pesticides are not specifically designed to kill or destroy humans.

• No one ever killed twenty students at a school with a pesticide.

Do poor farming practices with improper use of pesticides lead to human death eventually, given enough ingestion over a long enough period of time? Sure. But that is not the intent of a pesticide. Not its sole designed purpose.

I understand things like canons and crossbows serve the same singular purpose as guns, but we’re not having a crossbow crisis in America. If we get there, I’ll talk about it.

So, again…

What other purpose are guns specifically designed for other than to kill or destroy??

and

Why do you “love” them??

”What would you think if the entire nation suddenly advocated those same demands (of gun owners)”

@chewhorse: I’d think we were making progress.

Plenty of people collect knives and swords, but you never really see them go on killing spree’s with them….why? Because if they did, someone would fucking shoot them!

You can add as many restrictions on guns as you want, it’s not going to change the fact that Humans have always been violent. You do realize that without the invention of guns, you would not be where you are today. They are a huge part of American history, good & bad.

“Humans have always been violent” is not a good argument for giving them guns.

”You do realize that without the invention of guns, you would not be where you are today.”

@cheebdragon: You do realize that without slavery, we would not be where we are today?

Should we go back to that as well?

And yes, humans have always been violent. We may be so by nature. So, by all means, let’s give them easy access to guns.

I’m upping the ante. I will give up chocolate chip cookies for a week if a resident gun lover could answer my questions honestly – because, so far they’ve been ignored.

So, again…

What other purpose are guns specifically designed for other than to kill or destroy??

and

Why do you “love” them??

^^ Part of the reason that people love guns is because they represent unbridled male sexuality. Some people would feel emasculated without a gun to show people how tough and manly they are. It makes them feel powerful.

Such a shame.

@Kardamom: I really appreciate the answer. I have no idea if that’s true, but I’m guessing by your last three words that you are not a gun lover.

I would be thrilled if one of our fellow jelly gun lovers answered my questions — but they appear to have left the thread.

possibly at the shooting range

or hunting trayvons

Awright, one more try. I will give up chocolate chip cookies for a week and send you a stack of free comic books if a resident gun lover could answer my questions honestly.

So, again, again…

What other purpose are guns specifically designed for other than to kill or destroy??

and

Why do you “love” them??

Last chance, I promise.

Yeah

Well, clearly our fellow jelly gun lovers are too busy watching the Super Bowl to answer.

I’ll check back tomorrow.

Guns were originally designed to protect & kill, no one has said otherwise. Guns have been used for a lot of different things, a gun shot was used by Columbus to notify the rest of the ship that land had been spotted. Most handguns will never be used to kill someone, they are used as a warning and as a way to intimidate others.

Everyone wants to bitch and complain about gun owners, but I have yet to hear a half decent plan of how they intend to change anything, you can’t go door to door collecting guns, you can’t take them from the hands of criminals, and you can’t stop them from being sold. So what is your master plan? No one is forcing you to own a gun, you have every right to not be a gun owner, just as much as every gun owner has the right to own a gun.

Stop making ammunition?

Ammunition is easy to make, so are guns.

Money for guns? How much $ for a handgun?

@cheebdragon: Thank you for answering. So your answer to my first question is ”none” (except for that one time in 1492). Actually you did say ”Guns have been used for a lot of different things” — but then forgot to list any of them. Hmmmm, perhaps you ran out of time. Should be easy enough, since there’s a ”lot” of them.

And… you did not answer my second question, Why do you “love” them?. Instead, I get this rant…

”Everyone wants to bitch and complain about slave owners, but I have yet to hear a half decent plan of how they intend to change anything, you can’t go door to door collecting slaves, you can’t take them from the hands of slave owners and you can’t stop them from being sold. So what is your master plan? No one is forcing you to own a slave, you have every right to not be a slave owner, just as much as every slave owner has the right to own a slave.”

Oh, wait… I’m sorry, I copy/pasted that answer from another Jelly from 1862 on another subject. Oops, my bad.

And @ARE_you_kidding_me, is ”Ammunition is easy to make, so are guns.” your answer to my first or second question?? I can’t tell.

How many examples do you need? You never said you wanted a cataloged timeline of every event where a gun was used for alternative things. You wanted an example, I gave you one. Did you know they fire guns when they train hunting dogs and horses so they get used to the sound and not get spooked? I’ve got several more I can name for you but to be honest if you can’t figure them out on your own, why should I waste my time?
The president is surrounded by hundreds of guns 24/7, most of them will never even need to be fired. Is he more important than you or your family? I know he is not more important than mine, so why should there be an exception for certain people? People should be equal right?

There are more slaves in the world today than there have ever been, yet slavery is highly illegal pretty much everywhere. California has very strict gun laws, yet the annual number of firearms used to commit murder ranks 1st or 2nd highest in the entire country.

Did I say I love guns? Did anyone else here say that? People love boobs, it’s not illegal to have them, but it is illegal to show them in most public places.

I like guns like any other tool but it’s not a love affair. I enjoy going to the range to target practice, on occasion I’ll carry one but it’s not very common. I have been around them most of my life and consequently I’m not afraid of them like many are. I grew up in the country where they are a way of life, if you grew up in a metro area your perception of them is likely very different. Hell my middle school had a shooting team. Many in the anti-gun crowd are hypocrites like Feinstein, Moore and Obama (they all have armed guards) The biggest civilian use of them is their use as deterrent/defense, hunting and recreational marksmanship. I’ll throw a couple others out though: A type “gun” that fires special blank .22 shell is used to drive nails into concrete, firearms are often used in acoustic studies to get an impulse response of an area. Starter pistols are still used to launch footraces, there are Olympic shooting events… May I ask why do you hate them? Aren’t knives only used to “kill or destroy?” Should we get ride of all of them then? What good would laws do there? Knives are banned in prison but that does not stop inmates from stabbing each other. It’s not really any different with guns. In a perfect world where police and law enforcement have some special ninja skills with firearms that the general public do not or can anticipate crime before it happens and stop things right as they happen I still would not think that banning them is a good idea. In reality they will usually be filling out paperwork after the crime has happened. Like it or not we still have a right to defend ourselves.

@cheebdragon: I said further up the thread that guns should be in the “right hands” which, in my opinion is law enforcement — such as the Secret Service (who protect the president), or police, or military. Not your average citizen. But again, my opinion.

Also, I never once discussed gun laws. My slavery reference alluded to something that was once legal in the US and argued for similar to your gun argument. Perhaps the idea of or interpretation of the second amendment is as outdated and wrong-headed as slavery was in the US.

As for loving guns, the original question was “Do Americans love guns too much?” with four sub-questions. Every response answered the four questions (from different povs), but not a single Jelly (pro or ant-gun) refuted the original question. No one said, “I don’t love guns.” So I’m running off that premise.

Regarding Boobs: I’m pretty sure they’re not designed specifically to kill or destroy.

@ARE_you_kidding_me: Finally a thoughtful answer. Thank you.

I already addressed the knife example above. Knives are not solely designed to kill or destroy. They can be co-opted as such, but they are “designed” to do other things (cut rope, meat, etc.)

You have, however, provided some very nice examples of what else guns can do. That being said, I’m pretty sure the folks on this thread are not discussing purchasing a gun so they can start a race or for acoustic studies — but I see your point.

I grew up and live in and near a major city. Went to school in the city, always worked in the city. Been in plenty of rough neighborhoods with less than desirable people. I’ve been threatened, had a knife pulled on me. My wife worked in a prison (teaching ESL to rapists and drug dealers), pulled babies from crack houses working for DSS, and was a probation officer for twelve years specializing in pedophiles and wife beaters. We have never touched a gun.

And, I don’t hate guns. I get the appeal of target practice or even hunting. I just hate that average citizens (many of whom clearly love them) have such easy access to them. They are (despite your examples) primarily designed to kill and destroy and (as you say) deter and defend — by killing and destroying or, at minimum, threatening to.

Nothing good can come of that.

So these people should be the only ones allowed to have guns? WOW, great idea!
Personally i think I’d trust a stranger with a gun more than I’d trust a police officer with one.

@cheebdragon I think that’s a very odd thing to say. But this is fluther I guess.

@cheebdragon: Just as all gun owners are not irresponsible yahoos, not all cops are corrupt. But then, I suspect you knew that — or do you always deal in generalities??

And I completely disagree with your last paragraph.

Who do I trust with guns?:
• Trained law enforcement and military (mostly)
• Trained and responsible citizens (somewhat)
• Irresponsible yahoo citizens or the mentally ill (not at all)
• You (less and less with every answer)

The day i meet a cop that isn’t a total jackass, will be the day I consider trusting them, but so far all the cops I’ve met have been assholes. In my experience, strangers are rarely assholes.

No hard feelings, I certainly wouldn’t trust you either, if you can’t protect yourself, I wouldn’t expect you to protect anyone else.

@cheebdragon: Fair enough. I’m sorry that’s been your experience with cops thus far.

And I wouldn’t underestimate my ability to protect myself and others Madame Dragon. I do just fine.

Cheers,
@cookieman