Suicide by firearm, does society class that as gun violence?

So, let me see if I understand you correctly. You are promoting the use of firearms as a suicide tool? And the next paragraph, if stretched, would seem to indicate that you feel that guns should be readily available so that they can be used for that purpose? Readily available to those with mental illness?

No. Who wants to scrape somebodys brains off the ceiling? There are many other less messy and violent ways to kill oneself. How about carbon monoxide, pills, hell…hypothermia is a great, painless way to go. I would never use a gun to kill myself.

I’ll just go lie down in a snow bank in the mountains somewhere, thanks.
I have a friend whose father shot himself about 5 years ago, the trauma of that visual is nothing I’d wish on anybody.

I am not promoting anything, but would rather have the person do it with a gun instead of a vehicle involving innocent people, society thinks get rid of firearms and we will have nothing but a peaceful loving world.
Hitler promoted strict gun control ,for a gentler more peaceful country and we all know how well that turned out.
I am not against some controls on gun owner ship, back ground checks, family violence ,alcoholism,and so on those types of people should be restricted on owning a firearm,but again is restricting gun control really going to make the world that much better,last time I checked thugs and crooks really don’t care about any kind of law before they break it.

@SQUEEKY2 ” would rather have the person do it with a gun instead of a vehicle” Well, then, why not outlaw vehicles?

“society thinks get rid of firearms and we will have nothing but a peaceful loving world.” I challenge you to find a single reputable source that says promoters of reasonable gun safety regulations would end all violence.

“last time I checked thugs and crooks really don’t care about any kind of law before they break it.” Therefore we should have no laws at all? That’s what your argument says.

Each and every one of your arguments is specious.

Oh and is suicide by firearm classified as gun violence?
And if it is wouldn’t suicide by knife classified as knife violence?

When people use Hitler as an example of why gun control is bad, I like to use Somalia as an example of why no gun control is bad. There are many many countries in the world that have gun control laws and they don’t end up like Nazi Germany.

I think suicide by gun is considered gun violence. I remember looking at this poster that had a picture of everyone that died by gun violence in one particular day. Suicide was counted.

Who in hell chooses “suicide by head-on collision”? I think you’re reaching there OP.

Also: lol at invoking Godwin’s Law.

@syz then your misinterpreting what I am saying, punish the people who misuse firearms not the lawabiding firearm owners thats all.

I had to go to my Uncles house after I got a frantic call from my cousin about his dad being dead. I will never be able to erase that image of my dead uncle with half his head missing and the red mist and brains all over the ceiling and walls. There is noting positive about suicide especially when a firearm was the chosen way to die.

@Darth_Algar been several cases where upon investigation the cause of the accident was the one person was committing suicide.

@Darth_Algar and no Iam not making that up.

@SQUEEKY2 “been several cases where upon investigation the cause of the accident was the one person was committing suicide.”

Yeah? Care to back that up with a link to something supporting your claim?

@Darth_Algar OMG one was in a town near us in B.C a few years ago, but you want links, type this (suicide by driving into oncoming traffic) into Google you will be shocked at what comes up.

Yeah, I didn’t think so.

I’d say it’s mental illness related more so than gun violence.

Of the 32K gun deaths per year 20K were suicides (more than 60%). So yes, suicides are included. In fact 50% of all suicides are by gun. It’s quick, painless (I’m assuming since I haven’t tried it), and effective. Much better than Seppuku.

@Darth_Algar You mean you want me to go and paste the links that are on the first page of google about vehicle suicide because you wont believe me until I do? just type that in and see for your self.

@Jaxk Thank you.

@SQUEEKY2

You’re making a claim that “several” (and what exactly does “several” mean? 5? 10? 20? More?) suicides are people choosing to ram their car into someone else’s, and you’re making it sound like this is a significant number. I find that hard to believe. Nontheless the burdern of proof lies on the one making the claim, not the one disputing it. Saying “Google it” doesn’t cut it.

@Jaxk I always heard you NEVER use a gun unless you eat it (mouth first) and even then it’s iffy because you could be really hurt like all your jaw blown off and not dead. Ugh.

@Darth_Algar her is the first one..http://siouxsielaw.com/2010/08/06/teen-attempts-suicide-by-driving-car-into-oncoming-traffic-then-sues-the-people-she-kills/

@Darth_Algar – According to these guys, as many as 1.7% of all fatal accidents may be suicides. That is 1.7% of the approx. 45,000 deaths or 765 suicides by automobile. Your call as to whether this is a big problem or not.

If someone is hell bent on ending it all a firearm is just the easiest tool to use,

Meh, suicide and its many methods are never as simple as they initially sound when it comes to pulling it off. While a firearm seems easy to do it with, if you don’t know how to use a firearm properly, there are actually many chances that you’ll fuck up, seriously injure yourself and end up as a vegetable. There’s also the fact that humans are very resilient, and even a shot to the head isn’t guaranteed death.
Anyways if I wanted to kill myself, unless I had a magnum or something even police officers aren’t allowed to carry, I would never kill myself with a gun, not even a rifle or a shotgun.
Not related at all to your question, but you saying that gun suicide is the easiest way, I could not let that go. :p

But yes it is considered gun violence. Although my guess is, statistically speaking, they probably have sub lists…like gun murders will not be included alongside gun suicides. I know it’s considered gun violence, but I don’t know if, when they make lists of how many people die a year in a place due to shootings, if suicides are included. (my guess is suicides themselves have their own list, as in, how many people killed themselves in a year in one place)

@Darth_Algar totally right but they didn’t add where I could easily find it either now did they?
I just did so not quite the same is it?

@SQUEEKY2 Out of curiosity, how old are you? Are you a minor?

@ I haven’t been a minor for 32years now,how old are you?

@Jaxk ”@Darth_Algar – According to these guys, as many as 1.7% of all fatal accidents may be suicides. That is 1.7% of the approx. 45,000 deaths or 765 suicides by automobile. Your call as to whether this is a big problem or not.”

Interesting, but speculation, not much more.

It is, by definition, gun violence, unless you choose to drown yourself with a water pistol…that would be just silly though, take forever & you’d most likely die of pneumonia first.
Just another way of doing yourself in, jumpers off themselves & no one blames the skyscraper, overdose & it’s not the pharmacy at fault.
A rather childishly simplistic way of looking at this, but at least I know what I mean :D

@SQUEEKY2 ”@Darth_Algar totally right but they didn’t add where I could easily find it either now did they? I just did so not quite the same is it?”

No, it’s basically the same. Again, just saying “Google it” doesn’t relieve you of the burden of proof.

@Darth_Algar I told you what to type to see there must be at least ten entries on the first page alone you could see for yourself,but you want me to post links of those entries here so you can dispute them,The person on the other thread didn’t even do that so my argument with you is over, myself Iam fine if someone tells me what to type in google to get what they want me to see, I guess you are not, have a good day.

Beyond burden of proof it’s a matter of being willing to stand by your claims. Someone who lazily says “Google it” isn’t and in most cases will not, and should not, be taken seriously.

Here is a link for ya…http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=860_1338663184
That one has a video.

@SQUEEKY2 brings up a great point. Absolutely people commit suicide by crashing their vehicles. That is much more dangerous to bystanders than someone doing it in the privacy of their own home.
Shortly after a teacher in this area was charged with molestation of a student he “accidentally” ran into a bridge abutment on the highway. Coincidence?
By the way it cost a fortune to repair the bridge. It would have been nice if that was paid out of his life insurance settlement.

This article claims 1.7% of vehicle fatalities are actually suicides.

Certainly it’s better to commit suicide by any means other than one that involves hurting people. So what’s the point? Should we issue guns or pills to clinically depressed people?

@janbb True, it’s all hurting, still hard on others, whatever means, but… not as horrifically, physically ugly and in your face violent as blowing your brains out to be found by another person. Aaaah!

I suspect that many of these mass shooters are suicidal but want to be notorious, so they choose suicide by cop.

We have also had an increase in suicides by train in our state, and every time I wonder why they want to ruin some random stranger’s life in the process of ending their own.

I am not saying finding someone that killed them selves with a firearm isn’t traumatizing and horrific,but it is better than doing it with something or somewhere that could get innocent people hurt or killed.
I didn’t ever mean to say give the mentally ill or depressed a gun, what I am saying is make the people who do the crime do the time,get depressed people the help they need,and stop making innocent law-abiding gun owners pay the price for people who misuse firearms.

And when people snuff and say no on needs a firearm, with that mentality no one needs a sports car that can do 4 times the legal posted limit either.

@SQUEEKY2 I get your point but can you tell me just how innocent law-abiding gun owners have been hampered by gun control laws as they exist?

Well I can’t answer for the states but here in Canada they made certain clip sizes illegal so anyone owning them has to surrender them without compensation,same with a few classes of firearms.
And any talk of banning any type of firearm gets all of us in an uproar.I am not against background checks,mandatory firearm safety courses, I am all for mandatory safe storage of firearms either,people that want to have a gun should know the responsibility of owning one or more.

I doubt my first husband would have killed himself if he didn’t have a gun available. His biggest fear was that he would fail and end up a vegetable. He did the one thing he knew that would work and made sure I would find him, not the children.

Firearms are a highly lethal form of suicide. Many other forms fail and the people are found and able to get help. When someone is suicidal, the lethality of their planned method is a huge factor in determining how to proceed with protecting the person from harm and their course of treatment.

A psychology professor I had who worked in a state mental health facillity gave us the example of one of his patients who was planning suicide by wandering into the woods and waiting for a deer to trample her to death. She was able to get help. If there was a gun in her household, it’s likely she wouldn’t be here anymore.

Regarding people committing suicide via crashing their car, there may be many different motivations for this. If you can make your suicide look like an accident, then it’s possible your loved-ones may still get your life insurance payout. Also some people may not want others to think they committed suicide because it could cause even more pain (they could blame themselves for not doing more to prevent it). So it’s not like increasing guns will decrease the number of suicides by car crash. You would have to show me a lot of evidence to prove that claim. Furthermore I believe the data supports that the fewer guns a population has, the fewer successful (as in the person died, not that it was a good thing) suicide attempts. I don’t have a link, but I’m pretty sure I read that somewhere reputable.

@Judi So sorry.
@gorillapaws so that means all of us firearm enthusiasts should have all our firearms taken awaybecause someone out there might commit suicide , with a firearm?

@SQUEEKY2 Where did I state that claim?

You never did, but you did state that fewer firearms in a populated area cut down on suicide attempts ,the last time I checked no one has ever attempted to shoot themselves with one of my firearms.
But wouldn’t fewer vehicles cut down on auto accidents as well?

I said fewer SUCCESSFUL attempts. In other words, if people don’t have immediate access to a gun some will attempt with a less lethal method and fail. They may slit their wrists, which can take time to die, someone may intervene while they’re bleeding out, or they may change their minds and call 911, etc.

Fewer vehicles would lead to fewer car accidents, I fail to see how that is relevant.

I think there needs to be a way to identify people with mental illness that shouldn’t own a firearm while maintaining their privacy as well. I don’t know how to do that though. Now they rely on the person to tell the truth.

@gorillapaws I agree with your comments. Over half the suicides were accomplished with the help of a firearm 38,364 suicides and 19,392 by firearm. The telling statistic is that there were 713,000 attempted suicides that involved self inflicted injuries and I believe as you pointed out how many attempt or contemplate suicide with less lethal means and get help from family members and many many more suicide attempts go unreported.

My son went suicidal and when we found him crumpled under his bed crying and screaming how he wanted to die…he couldn’t find his boy scout knife as that was his choice method to cut his wrists. Of course we have a kitchen full of very large sharp knives and his tool box has more than one utility knife but the mindset of a person in that much duress we came to find out is very unique and functions in a way I at least did not at first understand. Thankfully this fixation with the chosen method to end it all is why I believe my son is still alive. We had to go all out on some very intensive intervention therapy and 2 years removed he is on more solid footing.

Al that said with so many hundreds of thousands of attempts to end one’s life each and every year…how many of those 19,392 people every year who end there lives with firearms would still be alive if such an easy effective suicidal method was removed from society or at the very least managed in better ways. It would also be interesting to know how many people who have attempted suicide still own firearms and FOID cards.

I’ve got it – let’s take away all the guns and all the cars and start over. Mass transit and bows and arrows for all who want them.

@janbb I’ll up the ante. Forget mass transit, lets go with the low carbon hoof print of horses again. First we use all the guns to thin the herd of humanity down to a reasonable level again and then, pony up. lol

Stop watching FoxNews and/or FoxNorth. No one even wants to come and take your guns. It is a competely irrational fear.