@hominid I suggest trying a different approach. In your scenario above, if I am out camping and I stick around and get a photo with a baby bear, I am threatening the life of a bear’s cub. And bears (not people who are subject to laws or who you can reason with) do what bears do in that situation – they protect. And that protection will likely involve ripping my arm off.
As you have just alluded to, the bears can’t reason, so you can’t place fault on the bare when you should know there is a mama bear around, yet you still try to ”threaten the bear” with your Glock 9mm Nikon. The humans are the smart one and should know what the bear would do in like situations as that and be diligent to avoid it. It all goes back to the humans taking the lead because we are the reasoning one
Are you suggesting that men are like bears? Men who see a vulnerable woman are forced to instinctively assault her? If male humans are not conscious moral agents who are capable of following law, then we should likely be drafting legislation to severely restrict male human’s rights. We’ll likely have to invest in cages, and set very strict limits on what males can and cannot do.
If all men, and women, were conscious moral agents eager to follow every iota of written law, I guess security companies, lock makers and cops would be out of business. If you believe people are so law abiding why not leave your home unlocked and the alarm off for a week and come back and tell us if anyone entered there uninvited and took any of your stuff.
You don’t even believe that logic in any other area. You don’t walk around with a good self-protective stance.
Oh really, what am I thinking now? I don’t have to walk around as if I am about to fight at any moment, I don’t have to. Depending on what neighborhood I am in and the time of day I observe if someone darts into an ally or passage way I have to pass or travel in. I am observant if the young man with droopy pants who passed me has circled around and coming back in my direction. I play attention if I am at the ATM or any place else about anyone nearby.
Last holiday season, if you or other family went shopping for gifts, did you place them in your trunk or in the back seat for all to see; if you placed them into the trunk why? Surely where you shop is very safe. Hiding your good in the trunk was not going to lessen the chance of your car getting broken into, if it was to be hit, it would, even if the car three spaces down had all of theirs in plain view, by your logic.
Using HC’s logic, she is responsible. She should have ordered a bottle of water, and demanded that it be unopened.
Please, do not even try to assume you can come close to my logic. Having water unopened would be the height of diligence; don’t you do that when you buy things from the supermarket, for your Halloween candy for the kids, or when you get something from a vending machine? To point out how far off you are, she is not irresponsible for having a drink. If she drinks to the point she can’t tell if she is walking on one sidewalk, or three, if that compromises her ability to protect herself against what is already out there, threat wise, she did that, no one made her. She bears some culpability in that.
He is generally amoral, and I usually interpret this as advocating immorality in a way.
I am moral, I can’t use morality in this place, for like the Matrix, and it exists only in people’s minds. Here there is dozens of moralities and none has an author or entity of authority behind it, so using it is as useless as tits on a boar.
His morality is not what we think of when we say that something is “right” or “wrong”. From his perspective, there is nothing to discuss. They are commands made by his god, and they are disconnected from the type of ethics we might discuss here.
How can I go with a morality that is 1st from flawed men, which has no author, or implemented by people I do not even know has the authority to implement it other than having more guns and prisons to enforce it, when I have the Creator of the universe who created what all those men believe they created. There is a “right” and a “wrong” the difference comes from attributing credit to it to other men who are no more have the authority to judge it than the flawed humans they want to follow it.
I don’t have a god, I have the One True Living God.
@GloPro I’m curious… Does the same logic (if you call it logic) apply if this woman had only one beer and it had been laced with GHB? Is it her fault she’s out of her mind because she had a beer? Someone drugged her; is she responsible for all actions after that beer? Why or why not,..?]
I believe I addressed this already, but if I didn’t listen up. If she, or anyone else, had one beer and it was drugged, the person drinking the beer had no knowledge they were getting loaded, inebriated etc. The choice was taken from them by whoever drugged the drink. It is not the same as sitting there having beer after beer even when you feel yourself getting drunk unless people who get drunk are too stupid to know they are getting drunk which would be a good reason not to do it if you can’t control it or even know how it is affecting you.
@KNOWITAL She shares partial responsiblity imo, because everyone knows you don’t leave your drink unattended for that very reason. It’s mostly common sense.
People seem to want to use common sense about protecting pets and property but leave it on the shelve when they need to apply it for their own personal safety.
I think you push it a little too far that a woman has to drink water or be home, I don’t believe HC is a total male chauvinist.
They will try to use gonzo logic to perpetrate that lie, because they don’t want to admit there is a minimum level of responsibility everyone should take to protect themselves, or they do not want to admit that minimum level can be compromised by being wasted…..guess they are planning to hit the bars later.
@Cruiser HC likes to push buttons and often a lot at one time including as you observed amoral buttons. HC likes to push buttons and often a lot at one time including as you observed amoral buttons.
I see it as getting people who pride themselves off logic or evidence of what they can see, feel, smell, measure or weight to examine more closely what they believe and why? Often times it appears to me they believe because some other man told them to believe it. Sometimes there are physical things to back up what is said but often it is not all-inclusive yet it is believed as the pure nugget of gold.
This question here is approached as purely logical. If you are that wasted you can cause yourself to have an accident you would never have sober, but also you can stumble into a situation you would not if you were sober. If you know ahead of time what you are doing would further that aim, how can you not say you had nho hand in it when you actually did?
@mazingerz88 Or are you saying that it’s because she was drunk that compelled guys to rape her-?
Not in general. Anyone who would want to rape her, or any other woman, would desire to do so drunk or sober. However, as a thief, many would not act on it unless the opportunity seemed favorable enough to do so and in a manner to escape detection or punishment. For example, years ago a friend of my niece boyfriend had a classic Chevelle SS Super Sport which he parked for a moment to run into a quikie mart to get some smokes. He left the motor running and then door unlocked. Needless to say, when he came out, be it a few minutes tops, the car was gone. Would someone had stolen it so easily from in front of the quikie mart had he locked the car and killed the engine the person who stole it may not have stolen it because it would have been more difficult. Did his actions make it easier and quicker for the car thief, what do you think?
Hmmm…I thought it’s just the common love of booze. LOL Would guys assume that if they get sodomized while drunk that they should also be blamed for it-?
The love of booze has nothing to do with the desire to be attacked, or not. Exposing one to easy attack or robbery is just a byproduct of the love of too much booze at one sitting. If a guy ended up in bed with another man or a woman with a strap-on buggering the dog crap out of them, sure they will say they had no part in it. But if they were too wasted to fathom why they were being led to a back room and have their clothes removed, they would not be easy picking had they been sober.
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