What's a measured response to this "tease" behavior from a younger woman?

At 19 I was in no way attracted to 40 year olds. Is it possible that she is not hitting on you and it is just that you are someone that she is comfortable around? If this is the case, maybe a pass at her would lose her trust of you, or others’ trust in you or jeopardize your future work with this theater.

She is 19 and in a play. Maybe she she has watched to much “casting couch” porn.

I’m almost 40 and a single male so I get the interest. I wouldn’t get into this mess. 19 year old girls be crazy.

When she strikes her ‘poses’, I would say to her,... ‘Do you mind?’ and gesturing to close her legs or to sit properly. Take the ‘Dad stance’. It’s simply inappropriate for you to respond in any other way.

As enticing as this scenario may be in a fantasy-kind-of-way, I wouldn’t even entertain it. Aside from some nice mental imagery for your ::ahem:: alone time, there is nothing to be gained here but trouble.

I have numerous 18–25 year-old students visit my office. As cute as they may be, I mostly think of them professionally (as their teacher/chair) or they remind me of my niece. Any other thoughts can stay in your head.

I wonder if the girl would behave this way (opened legs while sitting in her underwear, right in front of you) if her boyfriend were around. I think not – in which case she is just teasing and enjoying the attention. I would walk away and not entertain her flirty behavior.

I’d be upfront with her: “Sweetie, when you sit like that I wish I was 20 years younger again, but I’m not, I’m old enough to be your dad, so let’s just cool it.”

Have you witnessed the maturity of most 19 to 20 year old guys? Maybe she prefers the attention of older guys. Just behave around her and see where it goes.

@jca, she definitely changes her demeanor when she’s in eyesight of him. It’s kind of amusing to see, because we are on stage together at the time it’s happening—although I need to correct and say she was in shorts and not her undies this particular time.

I appreciate the responses folks. The more the merrier.

You admitted you are a letch and that part of the reason you do theater is to flirt. You have already fantasized your way into her panties and it seems to me you know it is just that….a fantasy.

Her emotional maturity is on display just as much as other things. She’s at an age where she teases everyone that she knows is looking, because she’s testing her sexuality and what it can get her. What you do is up to you, but if you value your theatre group more than her crotch I’d avoid taking action.

Yuck, Kevbo, 19? Someone needs to grow up here. And not just her.

@marinelife Um, 19 year old women are in their primes. Most underwear and swimsuit models are around there. You cannot fault a man for acknowledging beauty and youth. Biologically, it’s a natural drive. That’s why the swimsuit edition of Sports Illustrated is sitting on the back of most toilets for months. No biggie, and not yuck…
Intelligently, he should walk the other way.

At age 19 she knows exactly what she is doing and the effect it has.

No problem at all with looking and enjoying the view.

Acting on it? Don’t be stupid.

@Props to @Cazzie for ”the dad stance.” I’m chiming in with those who suggest the gentle reprimand.

(lech).

Since you’re in theater anyway, you might do some reverse role-playing here and play the innocent 40-year-old Ben Braddock and ask her, all wide-eyed, “Are you trying to seduce me, Ms. Robinson?”

@CWOTUS hahaha! Nice reference.

@Cruiser, that’s too far of an assumption in this case. I don’t fantasize about her. Again, not exactly my type.

@CWOTUS, ga!

@marinelife: I don’t think “yuck” is a word that most men would use to describe a 19 year old girl.

@kevbo OK then….this comment is what gave me that impression….“she’s as good a prospect as any”

@Cruiser, context is everything. There are 4 women in the show. One is married and the other two are not at all attractive to me.

Also, if you will read that quote in context, she’s as good a prospect as any for flirting. That’s a different animal altogether.

This is why I say measured response. I’m looking for something safe that says “I know you know.”

@gailcalled, shame on you for blaming the victim.

@kevbo Victim? You were not crying out for help at witnessing this disgusting display, you were saying that you enjoyed looking.

I wasn’t anywhere nearby, and I’m enjoying reading about it.

@marinelife – why is this disgusting? I happen to enjoy observing womens’ anatomies – many different parts.

Calling the display disgusting is saying quite a bit about you, and not so much about the 19-year old.

@marinelife, please show me where I wrote that I enjoyed looking. Amazingly (for me) I maintained eye contact the entire time. Get over yourself. I didn’t ask for it. She put it in my face.

And are you then saying if a woman doesn’t cry for help, then she’s not victim? You want to answer that one for me?

@kevbo choosing both sides of the fence, are we?

I’m being as honest and forthcoming as I can be in the hope of getting a decent response. People’s belief and behavior often don’t match despite our intentions. I could have not asked this question and just copped a feel, but that’s not who I am for better or worse. If you can’t appreciate that I am self aware enough and open enough to admit my pecadillos, then I guess I’m asking the wrong people.

And I think it’s someone else who is choosing both sides of the fence vis a vis a glaring double standard.

I don’t see anyone giving you a double standard argument here. Maybe I’m wrong.

Yes, technically, the response that would validate the perpetration of said double standard is still forthcoming. So, I’m assuming prematurely that it exists in the other respondent’s mindset though it has not yet been spoken.

I think it’s a reasonable assumption to make, since it is pretty much a basic tenet of victim advocacy regarding abuse/assault/harassment, sexual and otherwise.

People jump too quickly to the abuse argument.
It’s fine to look, and I’m saying that even if you didn’t. I check out every man that crosses my line of sight. Leering is a different act all together. I wouldn’t go staring at crotches unless I were stuffing ones into them…
In that scenario I may have stood up or switched positions. The other woman may have been subtlety shutting the girl down by sitting beside you. It sounds like something I would do.

If you’re interested, ask her out for coffee or something so you can gauge whether she’s interested in you so you can get it resolved.

If you’re not interested, ignore her childish attempts to flaunt a faultless body, it’s the prerogative of the young, and she probably doesn’t realize it’s odd.

Remember, I’ve reminded girls to close their legs in skirts in a professional atmosphere many times, some women just don’t always have a lot of common sense about that kind of thing. :)

She’s probably just being a naive 19-year-old girl that likes attention from men of any age. More than the fact that she’s too young to have anything in common with you, she’s got a boyfriend. Even if she was interested in you, which I’m not convinced she is, starting anything with her while she’s involved with someone else would not only make her a bit of a tramp, it would make you a bit of an ass.

I wouldn’t pursue her or flirt back at all. You’re old enough to be her father. In fact, you and she have the same difference in age as my father and I do. Inappropriate. Creep all you want, but do it from a safe distance.

@livelaughlove21, I appreciate your response as well as others who make a “daddy” argument, and I understand its basis. I don’t put too much stock in it, though. Millions of guys are as old as your dad, and one of them might be a really good one for a relationship whether you choose to personalize the age difference the way you do or no. My last significant other was 15 years older than me, and there’s another user on this site who’s husband is older by the same margin or more. Yet both relationships started somewhere.

Again, I’m not saying she’s interested in a relationship, nor am I. I don’t say anywhere that I have designs on that. I’m there to have fun where the opportunity presents itself and flirting is often fun. When the show is over the opportunity is passed. My aim is to navigate the opportunity in a way that is fun and gratifying on both sides.

@kevbo Age difference ceases to make a difference once you hit a certain age. The chances that a 19-year-old college student that spreads her legs for guys she barely knows has anything in common with a 40-year-old man is pretty damn slim. Then again, men seem to mature much slower than women, so perhaps these two would be evenly matched. I’d hope not, for your sake.

@livelaughlove21, I know plenty of cases where the younger partner bemoans their significant other’s entree into geriatric stages of life, so “cease” is a bit strong of a word.

Additionally, the vast majority of “age appropriate” relationships themselves do not last, nor are they entered into by virtue of having common interests other than attraction, sex, and misappropriated notions of the future, yet people can’t help but engage in them. There simply aren’t any guarantees in any relationship, although odds might be better with one choice over another.

@kevbo You’re forgetting the formula for appropriate age: ½ your age + 7 yrs = minimum for you. So don’t be thinking it’s no big deal for you, you shouldn’t be thinking about dating anyone younger than 27.

@livelaughlove21 Older men, too….! LOL

http://youtu.be/uoSr3SsoQs8

@zenvelo, I’m not thinking about dating anyone.

@zenvelo Does that formula work for older woman/younger man as well?

@kevbo Not totally sure what you’re looking for here. She sounds like a cute tease, she’s 19 and she has a boyfriend. You don’t want to date her, you don’t want to have sex with her, do you want to have permission to continue to enjoy the view? Or is it making you uncomfortable? If it makes you uncomfortable, I would find a way to tell her. Otherwise, enjoy the fantasy quietly.

@janbb He’s looking to be her Mr. Robinson if she’s up for it I think…lol.

@kevbo I’m not here to debate with you. You asked for opinions and I gave you mine – and I stand by it. You’re correct that most relationships between those close in age do not last, but even fewer between those far apart in age last, so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. And if you’re not wanting to date this girl, what exactly are you asking? You don’t need our permission to flirt with her. Just because I think it’s creepy and inappropriate doesn’t mean that you can’t do it. Go for it. Creep away, dude.

If you read the question (not even the details) as it’s written, then you have what I am looking for. To clarify, this is basically about flirting, which can be done with or without the intention of taking things further.

@kevbo So to answer that basic question, I think this situation has too much danger in it for you to bother with a flirtation. Find someone else.

You’re a forty year old man asking us how to flirt…
As a 19 year old girl who has a boyfriend, if I’m flirting with you it’s because I think it’s funny. Just laugh. Though the vulva display is a little offsetting. Self respecting girls don’t do that.

@AshLeigh, I’m asking in this case, because the situation is not the norm as you’ve just acknowledged, but if you want to take a pot shot at me for looking before I leap, then by all means join the crowd.

I actually think I was perfectly polite, and never once joined in the crowd that’s giving you a hard time.
I answered your question with an idea of what might be going on, and you were rude to me.
It’s apparent that you don’t actually want an answer to the question itself. You’re just looking for someone to say it’s okay to act inappropriately, and whenever someone doesn’t think it’s okay you act like we’ve wounded your pride.

“You’re a forty year old man asking us how to flirt…”

Unless that was meant simply as a summary of the facts, then yeah, that’s pretty fucking rude.

@kevbo I have the advantage of knowing you some and know what a caring and thoughtful guy you are so I am not being critical of or dismissive of your question. I just don’t think this candle is worth the game.

Well, here is what I would say to you, given you did not say you were a man of faith, I will not approach you from that area, I have read the responses above, wanted to be sure if the usual talking points were going to be deployed against you; they were. Forget formulas on who you should like or be attracted to. Use them if you want to be some logical or emotional fake. You can use a formula for anything, if a thief steals item of X value divided by your monthly income and it equals 1/8 your income or greater, go get a bat and try to give him/her a checkup from the neck up. If it equals 1/8 of your monthly income or less, forget about it, it is not worth pursuing. See, you can apply a formula for anything but life is not math or some science experiment.

They put the letch jacket on you because of the differences in age, partially because you opened the door on it yourself, when a lecher can be any age actually, check the dictionary. The logic is at her age, 19 she is too stupid to know how to have or enter a relationship with anyone above her “formula age”, she only becomes more relationship smart or sexually adept is when she is with someone as young and sexually stupid as her; water at even levels type of thing. Logic two, this natural selection, evolution, or what moniker you want to call the process of mankind’s development, that one should be able to turn it on and off like a faucet. The eye knows what is appealing to it no matter what age you are or become. Notwithstanding by society’s own rules she is 100% legal woman so done deal, whatever goes on is no one’s business should you and her want to make that boat ride together. However, people would expect you to take the ”daddy track”, why? You are not her father, you are free to do and think and act as you please. How can anyone logically or legally refute that? If there is any reason not to act is to not be ”Sancho”, the man she cheats on her boyfriend with, if he is more than “George Glass”. To ask any man, ”You can find her attractive she is too young for you” makes about as much sense as a diabetic telling themselves they really hate cake and pasties because they love the taste of tofu, hummus, and okra much better. If we are to go on science, you are not going to naturally not find a young attractive woman pleasing to the eye, and maybe the heart, only societal logic tells you to stick to the ”formula”. Logic three is that surely young attractive women with a body do not show it off or flirt with it, much less use sex as a weapon; certainly not to men who don’t fit the ”formula”, if she does, she has to have some psychological ”daddy issues”, have been molested, emotionally needy, or some other character defect as to why she would bypass the captain of the football team who maybe the real letch because once he gets the cherry he is off to the next girl.

If you were a man of faith, I would have a different answer for you, but in the construct of your question here, I say tread cautiously. You don’t want to get stuck in a love triangle or being trapped in a child support thing to fund study overseas. If you want to take a boat ride with her, know clearly what you expect and want and make sure _”George Glass_” is real; if so, let her know as much as you think she is fetching, she is off the table while still be rented by the boyfriend. Enjoy the sights, like a diabetic outside the donut shop, you can look and smell and not spike your blood sugar.

It was basically what I picked up from your little story.
And yes, I’m rude as shit. But only once you’ve been rude to me. The point is that you’re an adult, and she’s still a child.
I’m still confused about what it is you’re trying to accomplish here. She’s not your type, you have no interest in her, but you want to get flirty with her. That’s pretty pointless.

@AshLeigh, Well, I’m sorry you’re confused. I’ve explained it pretty thoroughly.

@janbb, thank you, dear.

@AshLeigh I think it’s a little odd to call a 19 yr old a child, since you can vote at 18, move out at 17, and some people think it’s okay for ‘kids’ to have sex as young as 13 or 14.

Some of my hs friends were into a coach or teacher, lots were into college guys, at that age it’s not really fun to date people your own age, they are so inexperienced and gauche. I personally dated my first lover when I was 18, he was about 8 yrs older than me, and later in life I dated another older guy, and both taught me a LOT, and treated me extremely well!!!

^^^ The point is that you’re an adult, and she’s still a child.
Not what the law says, better go back and check; can’t have the cake and eat it too.

@KNOWITALL, I think the maturity level of 19 year olds is not high enough to be considered anything other than a child. There are very few people my age that act like adults.

I had a mental growth spurt at around 24 that was when I defined ‘feeling like an adult.’ That’s also when you get booted off of your parent’s insurance. For what that’s worth.

@AshLeigh Let’s be real, how many 19yr olds DON“T have sex with someone, and if they’re going to be doing that, an older man may actually be MORE responsible than a younger man if he’s intelligent at all, which you can tell @kevbo is by his language.

Older men usually have nice stuff, a nicer car, a nice place, a job, money in their pocket, no zits, an IQ that doesn’t flunctuate with hormone levels, etc…what’s not to like?! I’d trade at least 15 immature groping sessions from my past for one good experience with a knowledgeable man.

Your brain develops fully at age 25. That’s what I’m trying to say. Thank you, @GloPro.

Perhaps we should raise the minimum age to participate on Fluther. :-) ~~~

I personally feel neglected at 34 because I would happily date a 40 year old, but for all of the reasons @KNOWITALL mentioned they are so attractive to women in their 20s, and of course the 40 year old loves snagging a younger woman. A woman in her early-mid 30s kind of becomes invisible unless SHE stops caring about dating someone old enough to be her father…

@GloPro Try being in your early 60s and having only men in their 70s interested in you!

@GloPro, you’re the third person I’ve heard play the “I’m invisible” card in recent weeks. That’s going to be the subject of my next question.

@GloPro You girls MUST be wearing too many clothes or not smiling enough, because I swear there are not enough cool women in this world according to all my guy friends.

It’s pretty weird, I agree. I have a theory, but I’ll wait for Kevbo’s next question.

I, also, was a big confused about what @kevbo is looking to do. He wants “to respond that creates a bit of a thrill without necessarily taking things too far. What’s a good way to flirt back or what’s a pass I can make at her (assuming it’s warranted) that’s relatively inconsequential” yet he knows she is taken, knows she is really only teasing him, and we all know that someone @kevbo‘s age already knows how to flirt, so…...

… with women of a certain age. The young ones are new territory.

@kevbo you may enjoy this patrice oneal bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10WgFK0YQhI

lolol.

@KNOWITALL Older men usually have nice stuff, a nicer car, a nice place, a job, money in their pocket, no zits, an IQ that doesn’t flunctuate with hormone levels, etc…what’s not to like?! I’d trade at least 15 immature groping sessions from my past for one good experience with a knowledgeable man.
THANK YOU! Had I said no one would have believed it or took it somewhere that was not spoken. I have met women who thought just as that. Is it a strategic and logical move? To some it is. If you are going to be with a horndog, might as well be with one that has some tangible means uther than a plastic trophy on his bookshelf at his mother’s house. In many cases the age was nothing to consider, they connected on an emotional level and did not see the age of the other really. Just as a man would choose a woman because she was young, toned, smooth skinned, unwrinkled, and still able to have a child, some women choose just as much for the stability and possibility to be cared for and provided. If the sole reason a woman would pass on a prospective relationship with man who can provide for her because of a ”formula”, for a just as broke as she is man; that is a clear example of a woman making a logical fake and fraud of herself.

Haha, so you’ve always only hit on older women. A la Harold and Maude
I bet you’ve flirted with plenty of younger women. You’re not questioning her age, you’re questioning yours.

@Hypocrisy_Central The emotional fraud ship sailed already. Move on.

@GloPro, I don’t know how else one experiences these circumstances without having accumulated them first.

Yes, I flirted with younger women when I was younger, but I was not savvy enough to make much of it, plus I was morbidly depressed in my 20s so I didn’t do much dating.

Since we are on the subject, I also didn’t trust most younger women (for whatever reason). Nowadays, that’s not a material issue.

Explain “not a material issue.”

Have women gotten more trustworthy, you stopped caring, or in this one situation it isn’t an issue?

@ninjacolin, ha! Funny!

@GloPro, to put it simply, I’m no longer scared.

Well, isn’t that nice. Meanwhile I babble incessantly as the invisible woman in the corner.

34 is also nice. But I don’t get to see you in the green room. And I don’t get to gaze into your eyes and profess my undying love for you in front of 40–70 strangers three night a week.

@Hypocrisy_Central Sure, but I’m a practical woman at this point in my life, a lot of women that I know are driven by romantic tendencies. If you’re lucky, you may find both. :)

And I don’t get to gaze into your eyes and profess my undying love for you in front of 40–70 strangers three night a week.

Any chance you’re perception of her “tease” is actually you projecting your desire to create a flirtatious relationship with this young female?

Jesus Christ. A little credit if you can spare it. That was for @GloPro.

@kevbo But they’re your words regarding the situation you’ve asked a question about. No need to get defensive with me….I’m asking a legitimate question.

@SpatzieLover “Her crotch is basically level with my chin and a few feet away, and I’m looking up at her to maintain eye contact”

Can’t blame the guy for thinkin can ya?!

Yeah, and it’s called acting for a reason. Please join the confused section.

I’m kind of over being second guessed at this point, although shame on me for being fooled multiple times that I would get mostly useful answers.

I’m curious to hear a spectrum of responses. Thanks!

My opinion is either this is you projecting, her playing with you to get a “rise” so-to-speak out of you, or….

No matter what my advice regarding the situation mirrors that of @cazzie‘s above. Take charge of the awkward situation by politely but directly asking her to stop.

My fault for not saying “useful.” I guess that has to be spelled out as well. Thanks for your response.

@kevbo If someone put their stuff in my face, they better expect something to be said…come on, who DOES THAT?
What do the other guys say, have they noticed, too? You’d think even the women would notice that!

@SpatzieLover said: “Take charge of the awkward situation by politely but directly asking her to stop.”

K, but guys.. what if he doesn’t want it to stop? Then what does he do?

@KNOWITALL, I know the women have. I don’t know. Usually it’s more subtle (drawing her knees up). This instance was the opposite of that. She’s a little bit rebel, so maybe it’s about eschewing conventions.

I think the guys stay mute to avoid spoiling a good thing.

@kevbo Okay, you can do the ‘concerned older brother’ act, which is to pull her aside and tell her that sometimes when she’s stretching some skin shows that me may be unaware of, and because of her age, you just wanted to make sure she’s aware of it since it’s a mixed sex situation.

Then she’ll either respond with a wink and an ‘I know’, or “omg, thank YOU sooooo much”, either way, you are good and can take the cues from there.

(My besty was kind of slutty, I didn’t follow her lead, but I learned a lot…lol)

@ninjacolin He’s old enough, and I’d presume experienced enough to know how to make a pass or at least flirt back if that’s the route he’s planning on going.

If @kevbo wants to pursue it, then he should do so. Why not just ask her out for a drink after the play is over?

EDIT: Right, she’s 19…so make it either a pizza or dinner?

Oh God, this is approaching hilarious.

Sorry @SpatzieLover. It’s not you. Just timing and circumstance.

“Her crotch is basically level with my chin and a few feet away, and I’m looking up at her to maintain eye contact”
I am still trying to picture how she did that and still was in position to be looked in the eye….. 8-P

@KNOWITALL GA.

@KNOWITALL, come to think of it, my B-I-L’s 20-something sister did the same thing at a family party once (not to me, directly, but in general). His backyard has three terraces, and she kept squatting in her skirt to talk to people below her. One of my older female relatives gave her the reprobation.

I think with her being 19, you should just wonder what will come of it…

Enjoy the flirtation but don’t fall in love or abuse her possible naiveness.

Can you please provide an update, @kevbo? Are you still being teased (and liking it)?

JCA
The Update Lady

Good going, update lady.

Our show ended, so I haven’t seen her. We had a hug at the end of the run and said farewell. She had family in town and so skipped the cast party.

I did read in a review that her next show, which was performed on campus, included nudity. I don’t know if she was among the nude, but she never mentioned that was part of the deal when she talked to us in the cast about that show. So maybe all that slinky-and-no dressing just put her in a mood.

Anyway, nothing much to report, which is what I anticipated post-show.

The surprise, though, came at the cast party. The husband of one of the other female actors (both of whom we’re hosting the party) dropped pretty open invitations for sex at a couple of points in the evening. That didn’t happen either.

Oh, and I did do mercy make outs with one of the unattractive ladies. (That was actually going on just prior to this discussion). She was really persistent, and I liked her well enough as a friend (still do). Thankfully, she got it out of her system before things carried along too far. I wasn’t sure how to say no without being kind of jerky, so I tried just letting the air out slowly.

I wasn’t sure how to say no without being kind of jerky, so I tried just letting the air out slowly.

How does that fit with your newfound enlightment? Should the concept of “being kind of jerky” even exist?

Mercy makeouts, huh? That’s very thoughtful of you. ~
I’ve never had a mercy makeout, but I’ve definitely kicked myself in the morning a few times. Could be similar.

Not a judgmental question but a curious one. Sorry the tone was unclear.

Thanks, @gailcalled. I guess my response has been swept into the dustbin, but I retract the latter half. :-)

@gailcalled, if I may repost more politely…

The short answer is no it shouldn’t exist.

The concept of “being kind of jerky” implies a sense of duality. There is a subject (me) and an object (a woman) and a relationship between the two (me trying not to be kind of jerky).

This duality is an illusion (although not an inherently bad one) through which consciousness tastes of experience and itself and evolves. It can be referred to as “the play of consciousness.” I like to use the image of a lava lamp to think about this.

It is possible through observation and a “stilling” of the mind, which one might say fractures the light of consciousness into the many colors that comprise duality, to experience non-duality, to see that everything is infused with one pervading “spirit.” This, itself a concept, can also be dismissed as an awareness of an “unconceptualizable” reality is recognized—a la not the finger but the moon.

So the whole impetus for this question and the sense of trying not to be jerky are the result of diverting one’s attention from the immutable sky of non-duality to the passing clouds of duality.

It is also borne from the disharmony that dualistic focus often engenders. There is the story of the butcher who never had to sharpen his blades because every cut was perfect and struck no bone. When asked how he did this he said he meditated on the Tao until he came into harmony with it and then the cutting was spontaneous and harmonious. If I were in harmony about this, there wouldn’t be an original question or this latter issue. I would simply have acted harmoniously and spontaneously with the moment without that extra thought.

Lastly, I recall mostly saying things like “coming into an enlightenment of sorts,” which is different from “I am enlightened.” That needs to be clarified. I have the understanding and some experience of what I’ve elucidated above, but that sometimes wanes as it does in this case. It’s natural, but not necessarily inevitable, for there to be a period of wobbliness, because one has to dismiss the ego mind which doesn’t want to concede and can cast many diversions, including the sense of trying to avoid “being kind of jerky.”