Do you think strip clubs are degrading to women... Or to men?

My answer is both. I’ll also say that men have primal and almost irresistable biological traits that are constantly being taken advantage of. We are bombarded constantly and relentlessly with advertising that play on these traits and i really feel that while it is degrading to women it is more demoralizing and demeaning to men.

I’m going to make the assumption that the women working there are working of their own free will; that they are not slaves, and that they are compensated for the work they do. In other words, it’s a job that they have chosen to work at themselves.

In that case, it is NOT degrading to women working there. They work out of their own volition at a job they are capable of doing.

There is some amorphous idea of “degrading” or “insulting” to women, that appears to be based on some naive idealistic philosophy that anything that displays a female body is in some way suspect, and therefore ‘degrading’. I don’t buy that.

Men and women are physiologically different and attractive to the other sex. That’s anthropology. That’s natural selection. Is it degrading to male peacocks that people really enjoy colorful plumage? I doubt it..

Saying that working in strip clubs is degrading to women is tantamount to saying that playing pro football is degrading to men, because they are making their living by flaunting (or using) their sex-role based natural anatomical talents.

I reject the assertion.

@elbanditoroso So your answer is neither?

@GloPro – My answer is “no” – if they are doing the job voluntarily – they’re not forced to be slaves.

Then let me offer you a very real scenario, @elbanditoroso: she is working there because she is illiterate and has illegitimate children and bills to pay. And a smoking hot body. She feels she has no other options, because McDonalds doesn’t pay the bills and she’s dumb as a rock. She’s making enough to send her daughter to college and change her future. She doesn’t really like her job.
Enter the man, drug there by the rest of the bachelor party for his first time at a strip club. He is overserved, ends up in the champagne room and spends $300. He is thrown out for touching the stripper inappropriately.

Thoughts? Any degradation of either party?

I hate the word “degrading” as it’s so overused by overly sensitive people that find everything insulting or degrading without any real reason, but I’ll put in my two cents.

I actually went to a strip club as part of a bachelorette party this past Saturday night. It was my second time there; the first was with my husband and another couple along with my sister and her friends (all are lesbians). It was packed at 3:30 and we couldn’t even find a seat in view of the stage and, since I was already tired and wanting to go home, I was too annoyed to have fun. The first time was pretty fun, but it’s not something I’d do every weekend or even every month. The guys there are normally really creepy and I don’t understand the point of them going there just to leave with nothing but an erection and a whole lot less money in their pocket.

My husband was attending a bachelor party the same night and they went to another strip club, one that is totally nude. I’m completely grossed out by the concept of that and I could honestly go my whole life without having potentially disease-ridden cooters in my face. My husband says the girls would put their crotches right in the guys’ faces when they got dances or walked up to the stage. He even had one stripper practically beg him to go to the champagne room with her, but he said he wasn’t dropping $50 for a lap dance. They had fun, but it had more to do with hanging out and getting drunk than the girls. The groom isn’t even into strip clubs, so I’m not sure why they went.

The idea of men going to these places alone on a regular basis is really gross to me, and we only go for a little entertainment, not to ogle naked chicks. I spend most of my time there people watching. Is it degrading to the women that work there? No, they are there because they chose to be there. Is it degrading to the men that go? No, it’s just stupid and creepy. Is the whole practice degrading to men and/or women in general? I don’t know. I think it’s probably more degrading to women than to men – after all, they’re the ones on display – but I don’t think strippers are giving women everywhere a bad name.

Like I said, I can’t stand the triteness of the word “degrading” in this sense, but my bottom line answer is: probably neither. It is what it is (how’s that for trite?). I also don’t think pornography is degrading to either sex. I think @elbanditoroso said it way better than I did, but I concur with him. As for your scenario, @GloPro, I still say there’s no degradation. Just a girl that made bad decisions in her life and is reaping the consequences, and a stupid young guy that gets drunk and does things to get himself into trouble. And their behavior is no reflection on others.

@livelaughlove21 Your husband was allowed to drink in an all nude club? I thought all nude clubs were denied liquor licensing. Did they take, and check, a cooler? Just curious. If he was able to purchase drinks, what state are you in?

I also think strange poon in your face, and his face, and his face, and so on, is gross. The thong somehow makes it OK.

@GloPro – liquor at strip clubs is a state-by-state law (and sometimes a city or county ordinance). There is no national regulation.

@GloPro – your example:

1) the woman is there voluntarily. There are other jobs in this world, even for a woman with no smarts. She’s there and she makes good money. OK, she doesn’t like her job—guess what, I don’t always like mine either. No degradation there.

2) The guy in your example is an idiot, and he might be feeling sort of dumb tomorrow. His degradation, if it’s even that, is an inability to control his drinking. That’s what he ought to be ashamed of.

@GloPro The club is BYOB. They brought a cooler, only to find out that they weren’t allowed, but the owner let them keep the cooler somewhere in the back and they could go get beers as they wanted them. I’m in South Carolina.

@elbanditoroso Fair enough.

I quickly googled it. It used to be a federal law against selling alcohol at fully nude clubs. It was permissible to check your own alcohol and have it served to you. That law was repealed under the First Amendment (odd choice, but ok). It is now regulated by state and even city laws. States that choose fully nude clubs and liquor licensing may be ‘punished’ by having some federal funding pulled for one reason or another, much the same way that the legal age of drinking is federally regulated to 18, but if a state chooses 21 they get more federal funding for roads and things. There’s my learning for the day.

I worked at a high end club with private rooms. I spent time with old married men and frat jerks in those rooms. I hated it. One evening one of the bouncers wouldn’t let me leave until I watched him pleasure himself. The next day I told the owner what the bouncer did and I was quickly moved to the dirtier and not as nice sister club next door. If that isn’t degrading, I don’t know what is.

I quit after that.

The one i was “dragged” to for my bachelor party had a separate buisiness in the same building where you paid a pretty penny for your beer. You had to physically go outside and in another door.

Frankly I think it’s degrading to men! (Unless the woman is being forced to do it.)
The woman is basically manipulating the men to get them excited so they will put more money in the thong or whatever. They look at the men like they would an ATM -a source of cash. If they wiggle the right combination the money will come out. Bleech!

Who is manipulating whom?

If you ever see my car in the strip club parking lot, call the cops. It is stolen.

@LuckyGuy Are the men forced to go to the strip club? They know exactly why those girls are paying them all that attention. They get what they ask for. They could just as easily refrain from going in the first place. Degrading to men? Psht! If anything, they’re degrading themselves.

I’ve gone because a group i work with just had to take XYZ out and I did not want to be the only prude. Yuk. The whole thing struck me as ridiculous.
She told the party boy “howl like a dog.” and he did. That seemed pretty degrading to me.

I’d like to know who started the ‘culture’ that you must take guys out to those places?

@LuckyGuy that pretty much sums up how I feel about it. It’s a place where loosers go regularly. There probably are some women who are professional about it but my gut tells me most are feeding a drug habit or have mental issues.

@LuckyGuy Even if a man is dragged there by someone else, they know what the stripper wants from them – money. The idea that a stripper can “manipulate” a man into giving her exactly what he knows she’s working for is just ridiculous. My husband, though he’s only been twice, refuses to spend any money at a strip club. If he can have some hot half-naked girl on his lap begging him to go to the champagne room and say no, the guy howling like a dog had the chance to say the same thing. If a man is stupid enough to let some stripper tell him to do something embarrassing, it’s not the girl that is degrading him. It was his choice to look like an idiot.

And I’m not sure who thinks that you “must” take guys to these place. Do men not have the ability to say no anymore? If party boy doesn’t want to go to the strip club, he can turn his ass around and leave, as can any of the guys being “forced” to go there with him.

I’m not saying strip clubs are awesome and nothing bad happens in there. I think the whole thing is creepy, as I said before. But if everyone is acting on their own free will, nothing they do is degrading to anyone else. It’s only a reflection of themselves.

Why go to a strip club if you have no intention of spending money? I think that’s kind of rude, personally. You don’t have to buy dances or anything, but those girls are there to make a living, and it is akin to not tipping for any other service. The least you can do is give your favorite girl a tip, whether it’s for her personality or her tits, or for her serving you a drink. I even tip the DJ for playing my requests. It isn’t a cheap night of entertainment unless you are cheap.

We aren’t stereotyping an entire gender here, but just talking about those within the environment already. We can assume no one is forcing anyone to be there, regardless of reason, no? I do believe it is possible to somewhat generalize as to whether it is degrading to men or women, neither or both.

@GloPro We don’t even pay to get in, because everyone has free passes to these places. Women get in free, anyway. He did pay $20 to get into the all nude one, though. It’s not as if he gets dances and refuses to tip, or goes up to the stage with no money. He doesn’t go there to spend money, he goes because he’s with people who wanted to go. Drinks are ridiculously priced there, so we usually do all of our drinking beforehand and we don’t bother requesting songs because all the girls there seem to pick their own music. We’re not tipping a girl for doing nothing – what service is she providing just to him/us that calls for a tip? A server brings YOU food and refills YOUR drinks, and therefore should be tipped. This girl is dancing in front of a room of people, should she get a tip from all of them?

It’s fine if we’re cheap for not spending money at a strip club. We can live with that. Every restaurant server we’ve ever had would probably disagree, though.

I think they can be degrading to both strippers and the clients. However no one is forced to work there, and no one is forced to attend. It is a business pure and simple, I would hope that most involved realize this. What gets to me is the trite gender role association which spawns such places to begin with.

But really, Arabian chicks dancing for some sultan centuries ago, what has really changed heh heh.

@Symbeline There’s a club in Charlotte, NC with a women’s strip club on one side, a men’s on the other, and a dance club in the middle. Needless to say, there’s hedonistic fun for everyone there. No one wakes up the next day with head held high.

Hell, if there was a strip club with male strippers near me, I’d go at least once. Mostly naked dancing dudes? I’m there, no shame.

IMO it is only degrading if the performer makes it so or should have retired a long time ago. The most fun I ever had at a strip club and after was with my GF’s and now wife.

It’s degrading to neither. Everyone working at or going to a strip club is there of their own volition. Personally I love strip clubs. If I decide to go out for drinks somewhere a strip club is a hell of a lot more fun than the usual redneck and sports bars that abound here.

My opinion is this: it depends on who’s viewpoint you are answering from. When I was in college I worked for an upper tier gentleman’s club as a Tudor girl. I was the one that got to keep her top on and sell you an overpriced test tube of Bartles and James out of my cleavage or butt crack and a teaser dance to one song. (This club was in South Carolina, @livelaughlove21). I certainly worked the system and took advantage of the sloppy drunks. There were times they were so drunk I took the charge for their drink and an ample tip straight from their wallet. I felt these men degraded themselves, but I took advantage of them. I tipped the bouncers well to protect my assets. I did not feel degraded in the slightest bit, but I worked in a club an hour away from my house so I wouldn’t get degraded outside of my job by people that judge others. I had set my boundaries ahead of time, so even when offered $2000 to take my top off I refused. That offer was an attempt by a man to degrade a woman.
That’s another viewpoint. Some men in the club go there because in real life many beautiful women won’t give him a second glance. Not necessarily because he’s not attractive, but because he’s a real asshole. Women in clubs are paid to be nice to him, so he feels like he’s better than them, and his view is that he is degrading them. So be it, it’s his money.
Those are just two viewpoints. It is my opinion that in the right circumstances it can be degrading to either. I also agree that it can be degrading to neither. That’s when it’s fun. When everybody is enjoying themselves with eyes wide open. If you can’t look the guy or the stripper in the eye at the grocery store, chances are one of you got degraded.

I’ve realized by reading through this thread that I have absolutely no idea what the term “degrading” means.

degrading: causing a loss of self-respect; humiliating.

Are there any jobs that do not meet this criteria? From working at McDonald’s to waiting tables to marketing to software development. We all give up our freedom to live our life, put on a uniform (outfit or suit & tie), and provide a small part of who we consider ourselves to be for money. The woman who cleans the toilets in my office doesn’t arrive as a full person, with hopes, dreams, and intellect that we care about. She cleans the toilets for a bit of money and becomes a full “person” when she is done and returns home to her family.

I don’t see why nudity and sexual-themed work is entirely different. I suspect, although I could be wrong, that some of this is rooted in pre (or early) feminist ideas that still maintained the repression and rejection of female sexuality.

As many have said before, if both parties are attending the event (and exchange of $) voluntarily, I don’t see why this is any different than other pay-for-services that we all engage in.

@hominid I don’t think there is one position in my company that would meet your choice of criteria of degrading. Everyone here puts forth a solid effort to produce a product they can be proud of…we then sell, make a profit, get a paycheck and pay taxes. There is nothing degrading about getting up in the morning to go earn a living to put food on the table and a roof over their head. What is degrading is when people begin to judge others by what they choose to do or even worse is when that society fails to provide opportunity for it’s citizens to earn a decent wage.

@Cruiser – I wasn’t clear in my post. I suppose what I was saying is that it seems that it’s either all “degrading” or none of it is. And I don’t understand why we would choose to view all wage-for-work as something humiliating. We all do it – unless we’re living off the grid. I am as fond of the word “degrading” as I am “offended”. Both seem to be ideas that have thrived, but appear meaningless following even the most simple inspection.

@hominid IMO degrading is not as black and white as by the definition, as humiliating is hugely subjective. What you or I may view as humiliating is a damn good time to another.

I agree with @elbanditoroso!