Do you really think that taking back control from the .01% {wealthy elite} and giving it to the middle class will actually work?

Unfortunately, a large proportion of the middle class don’t accept the fact that their trip to impoverishment has anything to do with the 1%.

What middle class?

@ARE_you_kidding_me the one to which you refer, “End poverty by addressing mental health and drug addiction issues. Take back control from the .01% and give it to the middle class.”

It would just disrupt the banking and manufacturing industries and cause an enormous raise in the cost of every-day goods. The 99th percent would immediately assume the mantle of the 1% and prices would stay high until we returned to the current configuration.

Economics just don’t work that way. There has always been a wealthy elite, but I don’t believe there has always been a middle class.

Unless you mean something unusual, “middle class” is a pretty muddled term. A family with two six figure earners is a vastly different animal than one with two $45k/year earners. People significantly outside that range still call themselves “middle class.” They really have little in common with each other, and policies that improve the lot of one may have no or a negative impact on the other.

In any case, probably the only practical short-term solutions to the inequality problem is less about getting back what the executive class has already plundered and more about making sure future wealth generated is more fairly distributed between the executive class and the rest of the people who actually create the wealth.

@Dan_Lyons Yes I know. I was being sarcastic.

First, acknowledge the words of Abraham Lincoln, that all are “created equal”, and so there can be no such thing as upper, middle, or lower class people.

Second, ignore anyone who refuses to recognize that self evident truth.

It’s the 1% who sign the paychecks of the middle class. Take away the 1%, who’s gonna pay you, plus match your social security.

What do you mean by “control”?

When the 1% have more money than they can spend above and beyond retirement and that cash just sits in the bank and is not being circulated we have a problem. The 1% have around 40% of the wealth. The middle class should sign each others checks.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies

Real eyes:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”

The Declaration of Independence

Yeah pretty consistent…

“Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.”

Abraham Lincoln

So we agree @ibstubro…? There is no such thing as upper, middle, and lower class people? It’s all a lie created and promoted by corrupt leadership through their media mouthpieces, in order for them to claim some sort of egocentric power perception?

Do we agree?

Because when it comes to power, the equal citizen is a sleeping giant. I think he’s beginning to awaken. I think he’s going to wake up hungry.

@josie “It’s the 1% who sign the paychecks of the middle class. Take away the 1%, who’s gonna pay you, plus match your social security.”

I think money is also a lie. We are the only life form on the planet that seems to be stupid enough to believe it’s a real thing. May I go so far to claim, by evidence at hand, that we are the only life form in the universe to be so doltish.

LOL, @RealEyesRealizeRealLies

Lincoln at the Declaration??

NOT on the same page.

Who claimed Lincoln was at the Declaration?

Money is supposed to represent value? So those with more money are more valuable?

What a crock.

Money isn’t value. IDEAS are… And the most valuable ideas have come from the most impoverished.

Let the banks fall. We’ll work it out for the better with more valuable ideas.

Nope…Robin Hood is a fairy tail and been tried many times over with epic fail and expecting different results is futile.

@ARE_you_kidding_me When over 40% of the US population doesn’t pay any income tax…maybe it is time they put some skin in the game so they actually have a claim to bitch about how crappy things are.

@Cruiser Just because someone is not paying income taxes does not mean they have no right to complain nor does it mean they have no skins in the game.

Everyone pays taxes {sales} and thus all are in the game and have a claim to bitch about how crappy things are.

@Dan_Lyons Sales tax goes to the State. My comment was directed towards the bloated Federal Government that chewed a major hole in my ass this year that is doing one piss poor job of spending my hard earned income. That said the state of Illinois is actually doing a worse job. Time to break out the pitch forks and torches.

@josie Are you saying that nobody in Europe gets paid?

@Cruiser Many of those non-taxpayers are making the 1% wealthy with their blood, sweat and tears, while some of them are 1%-ers with really good accountants. That said, I’m more in favor of a stronger working class. I know that if I got some of the perks the rich get (nothing much, just little stuff like lower APRs) I’d probably invest more. Now, is it only the elite that are allowed to invest, or is it something that anybody who happens to have a little extra money is allowed to do? And do businesses care whether their capital comes from billionaires or working stiffs, or is money money regardless of the source?
I agree that it’s well past time for a dramatic change, whether a revolutionary shift or a rather costly full-on revolution. I’m merely saying that everybody whose efforts lead to increased prosperity deserves fair compensation as opposed to giving 90% of the gains to a select few who put in far less than 90% of the effort. Hell, you aren’t up there with Gates, Buffet, and the Koch brothers, but I think you deserve a slice of the pie.

I’ve never thought that, no.

@Cruiser I’m in no way suggesting a Robin Hood approach or that we somehow physically take wealth back. We should find ways to restructure the flow of wealth so that it does not pool up in areas automatically and it is more of an even linear flow. The middle class need to be creating, innovating and moving this country forward. We can’t do that when all of the resources are being siphoned away

@jerv Anybody can invest and should. I was taught to take 10% of your earnings and sock it away. For the 1st 10 years of my working life I could not do that…my $250.00 per week paycheck and the zero balance in my check book would not allow me to put away a dime. In fact for most of my adult life I have lived paycheck to paycheck. I did increase my earnings and that in turn allowed me to move to a better neighborhood and pay more in real estate taxes.

Now that I am in the 1% club I take offense at anyone that demonizes the hard work it took for me to reach this plateau. I am proud of my hard work….it took me 30 years and an enormous amount of risk to get here and I never made a dime of it unfairly. My employees get more than fair wages for the work they do and also get nice profit sharing bonuses and hefty contributions to their 401 K’s.

I am not alone @jerv, at least 10 of my fraternity bothers and 5 really good friends are in the 1% club now. We all graduated college without a penny in our pockets and they like me worked their asses off to get to where they are and not one made it by being crooked or taking advantage of anyone along the way. My old boss and many of my neighbors are in that club and I can assure you not one has made it to where they are by fitting this evil nefarious greedy stereotype that many choose to demonize this group of rich people. Only one friend of mine though has made what I consider crazy money….he wrote the code for an install program those who relied on floppies to install their programs. At 28 he sold that code for 33 million dollars. I am sure he paid dearly in taxes. We all provide good jobs with good wages and we all pay lots of taxes so and I ask what more should he or I or my friends do Jerv?

@ARE_you_kidding_me The middle class need to be creating, innovating and moving this country forward. We can’t do that when all of the resources are being siphoned away

Exactly! 3 short years ago I was a simple middle class man who took a huge risk at the bottom of the worst recession IMO ever and put everything I own up for collateral to buy this small company and right out of the gate day one Obama raised our taxes and that took a chunk out of my operating budget I since then have needed to hire more people to help my company grow. I need two full time people and one part timer and finally now have grown the company enough to cover the cost of just one new part time employee when I would have hired 3 employees 2 years ago if not for that tax hit. I think it kinda sucks that I and my employees had to work this much harder this long to finally be able to do something we need to do to grow this company. The Feds would have got that money in payroll taxes and the increased spending these employees would have brought to the economy, I would have been making and selling more product. I have purposefully not improved our web presence because I cannot handle any more small orders as my order processing is often maxed out and I cannot do more unless I hire more office staff which I can’t afford to do right now. I am not greedy I just really could use that 5% in taxes back to grow my company.

@Cruiser This is exactly what I’m talking about. It has become hard for folks in the middle to do what you did and it’s likely going to get much harder if not impossible. When tens of billions of our tax dollars go to things like this I have to seriously question how this money is being used and if the gov’t should get these obscene amounts in the first place. If they must take it I’d much rather it go to the states. The feds have a bad habit of jumping in bed with the large monopolies they are supposed to protect us against anyway.

@Cruiser Keep on giving your employees more than fair wages and other compensation, and don’t forget that luck does play a role. There are many on your side of the fence that think hard work is all it takes, but you seem like you know better. You already work hard, so if there were zero luck involved, you have nothing to worry about. That’s all I ask.

Of course, our tax dollars (both yours and mine) heavily subsidize those who prefer sweatshop labor and part-time minimum wagers, the people who honestly deserve the stigma that you are stuck with. Just think how much lower our taxes would be if not for those companies.

@jerv I have a hard time criticizing companies that outsource or use sweatshop labor. I criticize the people that complain about it. These companies exist and do these things because we as consumers demand the items they make and demand them at cheapest prices. If they use above minimum wage employees they will not be able to either compete with import products or be able to simply make the product at the price we demand of them. It’s an either or situation and a very simple one at that. If you don’t like it then vote with your dollar and don’t buy these items and they will simply go away.

Everybody wants to be like Mike and then buy Nike products and it is no secret Nike is one of the worst offenders of sweat shop labor and off shoring yet it remains one of the most popular shoes on the market.

“Everybody wants to be like Mike and then buy Nike…”

There in lies the rub… Can’t buy being like Mike.

Instead of buying quality products, I wish more folk would pursue becoming quality people. Self included.

I really wish that more people would reduce, reuse and recycle.

I’ve started saying “no” to plastic sacks at retail stores more and more. I’ve gone to mostly glass food warming/storage containers. Not only do I buy my own clothes 2nd hand, I also shop for at least 6 other guys. There’s some small satisfaction in paying a thrift store $5 for a nearly-new pair of $100 Nike’s. I have bought the “elite’s” $250 jeans for $4 and $300 boots for $6. It simultaneously degrades the elite, helps the thrift, and reduces human consumption.

@Cruiser The irony there is that many go for low prices out of necessity. When you gross $1000/month, well, beggars can’t be choosers. That leads to a snowball effect, monopolies, and the end of Free Market economics. You like innovation? I do. But many don’t care so long as they get low prices…. even if those prices cost more in the long run. Buy Walmart, then complain about taxes going up because most Walmart employees need food stamps and Medicaid; penny wise but pound foolish.

Of course, I think it safe to say that people like you and I are outnumbered. We think; many don’t. Do you know how to count out correct change? That puts you a step above many. Jersey Shore ran for how many seasons? There’s a reason we are stuck with a two-party system, and it’s because there are many who are lazy,ignorant, selfish, or some combination thereof.

@ibstubro Those plastic bags are banned here, so I no longer get free liners for my bathroom trashcan, and have to empty my catbox into a paper bag. I guess not enough people reused them :/

@jerv you speak from a rare understanding of the truths and realities all walks of life face. In the end, it is exhausting for both sides of the equation…my hope is all can get a good nights sleep and feel good in the morning…sadly it seems we still have a long ways to go…

@jerv What you just said to @Cruiser is seriously on the money. It’s like somewhere there must be many hidden signs and subliminal suggestions tricking people into having more and more children. They need consumers and cannon fodder.
So when you see what’s going on, your best bet is to try to fit in while keeping a semblance of your true self from ever being assimilated.
Make as much or as little as you desire, for it isn’t about the money, it’s about your inner core.

@Cruiser That’s the real reason I am against many of the economic policies of those claiming to be “Conservative”. I like robust, stable, sustainable markets that compete on the merits of their goods/services. I like cutting costs and will sacrifice short-term gain for long-term overhead reduction. In short, I’m too pragmatic to buy their selfish hypocrisy. And you can’t build on a shaky foundation, so anything that relies on a working class requires investing in workers to ensure that one still has something to manage. It also requires a consumer class with enough disposable income to afford more than just rent, utilities, and groceries. Yet, it amazes me how many seem to think otherwise. Those are the ones who destabilize the economy, drive up our taxes and unemployment, and create bubbles that burst catastrophically.

@Dan_Lyons That’s why I learned a trade. I’ve had enough bad things happen to me that I’m too risk-averse to do what @Cruiser has done, but I have made an effort to at least be self-sufficient, and try to do little things to help others. It isn’t much, but shopping locally instead of at megamarts and tipping the minimum wage waitstaff well helps keep money flowing instead of sitting offshore unspent. I like to think that giving money to those that will turn around and spend it and to companies that will use the money for something other than executive compensation helps.