Can we really just blame Bush for everything?

This is me giving you a hug before a bunch of people freak out at you. **hug**

not that I don’t hear what you’re saying, but i’m going to avoid touching this one

Its always easier to just point a finger and blame someone else isnt it?

Thanks for the hug though, Delerium =)
You know Im used to getting freaked out on though on this site.

The way I want to look at it is that he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even if Al Gore was in office we would hate him for all this crap that’s going on. I sometimes think that we should put the republicans in charge longer just so they can clean up the mess they created. Now, I think it is time for change, and we need to try something different if this hasn’t been working, but some people just think that digging a bigger whole with a bigger shovel every 4 years will help rather than hurt. I totally agree with you chris, as soon as something goes wrong no one wants to take the blame, it’s pathetic of our country to say “9/11 happened because of George Bush!” and when George doesn’t find WMDs or the parts to make them, he doesn’t admit that he was wrong.

Everyone needs a scapegoat and Bush is a pretty convenient one for this generation. Granted he has his shortcomings. I hate politics, though.

I definitely think 9/11 happened because of Bush.
Google Project for the New American Century.
They had all of this military spending planned out well before Bush took office. All they needed was a new Pearl Harbor, and they got it.

Even if it wasnt an inside job, its been proven over and over that this administration was warned about 9/11.

I don’t necessarily disagree with anything you said, but such a complicated situation is not the result of 7 years of decisions made by one man. We have all, in our small or large ways, contributed to the current state of the country and the world. I always point the finger at myself first.

I feel your pain, chris, but I can’t help thinking back to just before the ‘04 elections and feeling confident that Americans would have the good judgment to see who we really had there in the oval office. But no, we gave him another four years to finish screwing it up. I pretty much stopped seeing us as the hapless victims of tyranny at that point.

@chris6137, So your saying that 9/11 was planned by the government?

http://quicksilverscreen.com/watch?video=42229

Judge for yourself. Like I said, if it wasnt planned by the government, they were warned about it and did nothing. Nothing to the point where our air defense failed 4 times in one day.

They have been able to do everything, i mean everything, they wanted to do before 9/11 happened, since 9/11.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

I really dont wanna make this talk about 9/11 though. There are plenty of posts about it on fluther.

George Bush is the absolute WORST President in American History. Let’s just hope the all of the damage he has done over the past 8 years is not ireparable.

i HAVE judged for myself, And so have most sane americans. I cant get into a serious political discussion with someone who believes that the united states government conspired to murder thousands of american citizens in the middle of new york city. and then carried it out in complete secrecy. All while we live in an age where the president cant drop a fart without it leaking to the press.

I am not on board Chris’ bandwagon. I think there is plenty of blame to go around.

Starting with greedy Americans who did not want to think about the fact that maybe it was not such a good idea to buy a half a million dollar house with no money down on an adjustable rate mortgage with a giant monthly payment!

Then let us move to corporations who see their only loyalty is to investors and who do not even pay a living wage so that in real dollars today’s salaries are a fraction of what they were 30 years ago.

Heading right up the food chain to a bunch of politicians who would not know courage and leadership if the twins bit on their seriously fat asses! How about some meaningful legislation arrived at through dialogue and compromise instead of gridlock, blame, finger pointing?

Let me not leave out the media, who have lost the courage of their convictions as they are run now by accountants and lawyers (as much of the rest of the US is). Deep, insightful analysis? Phah! Investigative journalism? Where? No, let’s run who-killed-the-pretty-white-girl-of-the-week or let’s-watch-a-pedophile-sweat and call those news shows.

I disagree with xxporkxsodaxx too, though. If Al Gore had been in office, there would be no Iraq. That was a trumped-up conflict with false grounds for going to war, as has been shown over and over again. It has even been said by George Bush although he looks like he’s tasting a big bowl of broccoli every time. With no Iraq, the economy and national debt would not be anywhere as bad as they are now.

But still, I end up back with greedy individuals in the form of stock market speculators driving up the price of oil on paper with no relationship to real market supply and demand.

You have judged for yourself or you let the media judge for you?
You might wanna check out this poll, since you think most sane americans came to the same conclusion as you did. http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1354
The press doesnt report on half of what it should, like articles of impeachment against Bush. Did you know about them, Stocky?

@Marina
So the devaluation of the dollar has nothing to do with oil prices??

Well chris, you have no clue how many threats this country gets in one month. It is hard to tell which are real and which are fake, some might want to get us shaking, some might actually do something. If you think we have the time to deal with every threat put against us, you’re wrong. I wish we could go off willy nilly and make sure every threat is taken care of, but that will never happen, but what will happen is terrible deciphering of which one’s are possible and which one’s will never happen.

He just got elected, the people who voted for him ,we can blame. Or diebold…

G. Bush is pretty cool.

While George W. is arguably the worst President in modern history…
While he has clearly abused his power as President…
While his dismissive and/or arrogant policies have not helped the US’s image abroad…
While all of this (and much more) is true about him and his administration…
You simply cannot blame him for everything that is currently wrong with the country.
It is illogical at best.

Furthermore, the new President (Obama or McCain) will not possess the power or the time, frankly to clean up “this mess” in the time they are in office.

It’s going to be a long haul back to a strong, economically sound, compassionate America – assuming that’s even what the voting public wants.

Based on folks I work with, they think things are just peachy the way they are.

I may just move to Italy. :-)

@chris6137 The oil prices are the result primarily of speculation by large-scale investor groups who have moved out of stocks and into commodities where they really have no business since they are pension funds.

So the fact that $4 Trillion added into circulation and a 41% decrease in the value of the dollar mean nothing?? According to OPEC, you are wrong. http://www.gata.org/node/6391

The price of oil has quadrupled , as has the price of gold. If our money was backedx by gold, oil wouldnt have gone up at all.

How many excuses has the media given us for the price of oil?? Every week it is something different. I watch C-span quite often and hear many congressman speaking of the devaluation of the dollar being a main factor. Speculation adds to it, but the main reason is the dollar. JFK knew the deal. Thats why he issued silver certificates. Its also why I think he was killed.

@stocky
I see you were a Carlin fan. Check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pow5_UYKaJ8

No chris I judged for myself, The judgement was quite easy to make in fact. and I did specify SANE americans for a reason. Conspiracy theorists like yourself are a disservice to the united states. Try doing something creative to change the problems you see with the country. Rather than make accusations that the US government is destroying scyscrapers and murdering american civilians. I dont agree with many or even most of the choices GWB has made during his time in office. but to say that he and his administration planned and carried out the 9/11 attacks is preposterous

Chris, you seem to just want to hammer us with your beliefs.

Because I enjoy his comedy doesnt mean i agree with every view he has represented.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree chris. Although you at least sound more intelligent than most people I have heard with the same conspiracy theory. Thats why I am surprised

Asked what the main factor behind the rise in prices had been, he replied: “I think it’s the devaluation of the dollar.” OPEC President Chakib Khelil said in an interview on Thursday.

My beliefs??? Most people get what they believe from corporate owned media. At least I do a lil research for my beliefs.

And if the founding fathers didnt pound their beliefs, you think wed be “free?”

@chris6137 How about taking what the OPEC chief says with a grain of salt, too? He has a little bit of a vested interest in spin here too.

Since when does the media as a whole not lean to the left. You talk as if the goverment controls what we hear in favor of republican interests. It seems if anything it is the opposite.

Not republican interests, corporate interests. Both right and left.

@marina
http://www.aspo-usa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=392&Itemid=91
http://www.rense.com/general66/dollardevaluationordoomed.htm
http://www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=497&language_id=1

Ill post all day.

The media does not want us to realize the nature of the beast of the federal reserve.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/Federal%20Reserve%20Scam/quotes_on_the_federal_reserve.htm

“The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it’s profits or so dependant on it’s favors, that there will be no opposition from that class.”

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.”—Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President

“It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”—Henry Ford.

This seems less of a question and more of a statement of beliefs does it not

Im just responding to things I disagree with. Should I let them do unsaid?

Harry Truman had a sign on his desk in the Oval Office that said, “the buck stops here.” Meaning: lots of people will “pass the buck” and assign blame here or there… Truman accepted responsibility as Commander-in-Chief and the country’s highest office.

So yeah, we can blame Bush for everything. He appointed the cabinet members and advisors who led us down the garden path.

But telling the fluther community what makes you angry about the country is not really what it is intended for is it?

All I did was ask a question. I like to hear people’s input on things and then discuss them. I am open minded and listen to what people say and their reasons behind them. That is how I get new ideas or expand on old ones. This is a discussion forum and I am discussing. Notice, I didnt argue with everyone, just who I dont agree with on facts, not opinions.

I don’t think 9/11 did happed because of G.W. The actions of 9/11 were put into motion long before G.W.
There is no conspiracy. Holy crap! I can’t believe educated people can believe in a 9/11 conspiracy theory.
Oil prices are as Marina puts it, Speculation in the market.

If you are open minded wouldn’t that imply you would be open to new ideas but yet you are arguing against the new ideas.

Obviously, the ideas I have, are “new” ideas, since I dont hear many people talk about them, or even want to talk about them. If the media isnt ramming it down your throat, it must not be true.

As far as speculation, let me ask you this. If we had $2 million in circulation, and tomorrow we had $4 million, what happens to the money we have? What happens to the price of goods?

First everyone was arguing its supply and demand, then China, now speculation. Where is this info coming from? Does anyone watch real news, like C-span, where it is not filtered?

No one seems to question the policy of the federal reserve. The rich wouldnt be rich if it werent for the fed. If they do question it, its not on the news.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4kxTkhwR_Q

In 2000. with $100 i could buy 69 gallons of gas at 1.45 a gallon.
In 2008, with $100 I could buy 25 gallons of gas at $4 a gallon.
In 2000, with 1 oz. of gold, at $300 an oz, I could buy 207 gallons of gas at $1.45 a gallon.
In 2008, with 1 oz..of gold at $943 an oz., I could buy 235 gallons of gas at $4 a gallon.

Soooooo, devaluation of the dollar has nothing to do with the price of gas?? We are always looking for solutions, without actually identifying the problem.

Wonder why you never heard much of Ron Paul in the media?? More Americans would be aware of this, and possibly be a lil mad.

I pretty sure history has determined that the Pearl Harbor incident was set-up and allowed to happen. Why not 9/11?

(ignoring previous replies – no offense, just warning)

If Bush were more than a dumb-as-Reagan figurehead, you might blame Bush. But even if we blew him up for the 4th of July, he’d just be replaced by another tool.

@ chris6137 – Im not sure if its because its late or I’m really slow but can you break that whole gas/ollar/gold thing down for me?

@Zaku: another tool of what entity?

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/27/markets/dollar/index.htm?section=money_topstories

Much of its decline, however, can be blamed on the Federal Reserve. When the Fed cuts rates, it puts pressure on the dollar since it makes dollar-denominated investments less attractive to outside investors.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/03/markets/thebuzz/index.htm?section=money_topstories

A weak dollar has been mentioned as one of the key culprits behind the dramatic spike in commodity prices, particularly oil. That’s because the price of crude and other commodities are denominated in dollars. So as the dollar slid against the euro, that fueled more inflation pressures.

@Susanc – It’s not just a single easily-identified entity. Different viewpoints have suggested various entities over the years. Some used to point to Karl Rove as a mastermind, before his name was highlighted in the mainstream media. Some point to a group including most of Bush’s advisers and campaign engineers (i.e. Rove and/or others like Rove). Others point to the specific corporations Bush and Cheney and their family and associates have worked for and own interests in and which have profited massively from the war (e.g. oil corporations, Haliburton), which overlaps with the group of advisers I just mentioned. Others point out that the underlying issue isn’t specific groups and corporations, but ideas and patterns of thought and behavior. For example, some point to the entity that is the phenomenon of the “corporatocracy” – the pattern of international corporations and organizations such as the World Bank.

Yes, we can blame him for everything! LMAO!

2000 years ago we blamed the gods for everything. 1000 years ago we blamed the devil. Now its Bush and the government. Its very handy – we don’t have to look too closely at our own actions!

NO. Bush is Jesus Christ incarnate.

9/11 truthers should read this:

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06–09-11.html

If you can blame Bush for 9/11, then I say you can blame him for everything. Heck, it’s Bush’s fault I got the job I got, it’s his fault I’m making the salary I do, it’s his fault my grandma died, and he was behind 9/11 :)

Link not working, godfather.

The worst president ever? I don’t recall us having double digit inflation and unemployment during his admininstration. I also haven’t had to wait in line at the gas stations to get my ration of gasoline like that one president…what was his hame? Oh yeah, Jimmy Carter.

@winblowzxp

Inflation is rampant right now. Just look at gas and food prices. That is mostly due to inflation. Since Clinton changed the way we measure CPI, which now does not include energy and food, we do not know the true inflation rate. We do know that gold in 2000 was around $148 an oz and is up around $1000 an oz now. We also know that the dollar has been devalued 41% since Bush has been in office.

The weakening of the dollar isn’t an indicator of inflation. Oil prices are high because there is high demand and short supply, food prices are high because subsidized farmers aren’t growing wheat, etc. because they’re busy growing corn for ethanol production. By the way…you haven’t noticed the price of oil falling by $20—$30 a barrel within the last couple weeks, and that consumption is down?

We also know that the dollar took its largest plunge after the Democrats took control of Congress.

So what is an indicator of inflation?
Im not an economist, but if we have $1 million in circulation and all of a sudden we have $3 Million, our money have just lost a third of its value, which will make things cost more, especially necessities like housing, energy, and food. I have heard every excuse under the sun, s&d, speculation, china. Everything but the dollar. Oh wait. I did hear someone talking about that, but the media completely blacked him out.

Here are a whole bunch on links to articles talking about the dollar and oil correlation:
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2004/11/b258795.html
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P100650.asp
http://www.cnbc.com/id/20988001/

I do not side with either the dems or repubs. I think they work together to screw the middle class and enrich the wealthy. I love the game they play of constantly blaming each other, when they are both to blame. The two party system is so broken, it needs to be fixed.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/In_June_biggest_price_increases_in_0804.html

This article, from today, says that inflation is the highest in nearly 3 decades.

The article doesn’t state what the inflation rate actually is. How do they determine that it’s the highest in 3 decades, or are they saying that the jump was the highest in 3 decades? They don’t say. I’d be interested in seeing what the actual rate of inflation is presently.

Please do not give Bush that much credit. He does what he is told to do. like the little politicle bitch he is.

Why is this ‘question’ still here?

Bush is and was evil, Yes I keep pointing my finger in that direction.