If you had a chance to help an immigrant get his family to America, would you do it?

No. I would tell him to go to Europe instead.

No, I would send him to @ragingloli‘s instead.

Warning! Danger, Will Robinson!... You might be biting off waaay more than you can chew.

The idea is intoxicating but…

When your new friends need help will you support them? What happens when they get in trouble with the law, or have legal issues, or lose their job because they don’t show up, you will be the ones to get the calls. Who will cosign their rental agreement and car loan? You will. I doubt there is a Gabonese Embassy nearby. What happens when they get a girl pregnant?!

Now let’s consider, ... If they were 3 white guys working as doormen or 3 chinese or 3 blacks working at that “menial job”, would your husband have befriended them the same way? Would he offer them the same chance? Would he invite them to the house. Of course not.
This group had a good, hard luck story and you want to help. That is nice of you. But…

I’ll bet right now there are homeless people in town who would love help getting a job and help with finding a place to live. They worked hard and rand into a string of bad luck / or huge medical bills. Why would you not consider helping them? Is it because their accent is not as cool?

You are kind, but once again I hear the sound of:
“Warning! Danger, Will Robinson!” It is really easy to get sucked down the drain and almost impossible to get back out.
Do you want that burden in your life?

Here’s a final thought… Would you do the same for any of your nieces.and nephews? I didn’t think so.

Hell no! Rick opened a keg of worms to innocently help illegal aliens find a way to scam people even more then they probably have already.

Possibly. It would depend on the circumstance, but my gerenal MO is to trust people and to want to help if I think a small thing I can do might make a huge impact for someone.

I have a fantasy of having a business where I live and owning quite a bit of land. I would have a small apartment for a person or couple where they could live for free and help me tend to the grounds and other chores. I always hoped it would be a new immigrant or someone who had a bad streak of luck who is American. Help them get on their feet and live in a safe place. They would have time to seek a job while living on my property. Eventually they might leave once they found good employment, or maybe a relationship of loyalty would grow between us and they would work in my business or on my land if part of it could be a farmed.

@Dutchess_III What business did they work in in their country? Do they have college degrees?

I personally know a guy, a vegetable farmer, who worked very hard to get the right papers to help a Mexican family get working papers. He spent a small fortune and a lot of time taking care of them. He thought once they got the papers they would work on his farm and help him out – for a fair wage.

A few months into the season they applied for, AND GOT!, repetitive injury disability. They went to a Mexican Disability lawyer who specialized in disability claims for a % of the payments. Done. So much for being a nice guy.

@BeenThereSaidThat they aren’t illegal aliens.

@JLeslie I don’t know the answer to your questions except one has a “partial” degree Rick told me. I asked if he had an Associate’s. He said, “Maybe that’s what he meant.”

They each have an apartment in Houston. I guess whomever co-signed for them then will co-sign for them here.

If they come visit, I’ll look into them in more depth.

There might be some organization that is helping them.

I had thought about opening my house to Jewish families coming to America back when I had a house I could help with. The JCC helped them get what they need. At one point about 15–20 years ago a lot of Russian Jews were allowed into America. That would be helping my own so to speak, not that I would have to identify with someone in that way to help them. I had worked with a young women who came to America from Russia with her mother and the Jewish Federation paid for the flights to get here. They weren’t required to pay the money back, but this woman told me how her mom said they were going to pay back every cent to help another family. They put aside $10 every week until they could pay back the full $2000.

I have so many good experiences with people who come to this country and with people in general I tend to be a little naive.

However, I will say that different people have different ideas of honesty and integrity and that can backfire. Also, if you are perceived as “rich,” when they are very poor, sometimes those people, including Americans, not just immigrants, think taking money from the “rich” is ok. Rich people have the money to spare. To someone who grew up literally dirt poor very little can look rich to them.

I wouldn’t help just anyone. That is naive and a recipe for disaster. I helped a good friend, a Polish national, after I got back here in the early ‘90s because I promised him I would back when we worked together on a crew in the Baltic. It turned out well. I married my first wife before I was ready because her B-2 visa was running out and I didn’t think the state should have the right to take her away from me. That turned out well also. We had some good years together.

Thanks. You’re giving me great information. Good questions to ask them.

@Dutchess_III Three separate apratments in Houston? They must not be doing too badly.
I seriously doubt the person who cosigned for them in Houston will do it again in some rural state in the Midwest where they have no jobs and don’t know anyone. It will be your responsibility. Are willing to step up to the plate?

I’ll give you one more horror story. A number of years back (10–15 years ago) a couple of the churches inn the area thought it would be a kind and a Christian blessing to help some of the poor Somali “lost boys”. They brought them here to this quiet community. They stayed in homes for a while and eventually got them apartments paid by parishioner donations. They were supposed to be educated and further their educations. Didn’t happen. They trashed the apartments. They never took care of the property. They did not go to school. They got menial jobs for short periods of time but would quit because it was hard to go to work. First one then another got arrested for B&E – after a string of robberies in the area (in a place that has virtually no crime). These issues caused such a rift among the parishioners they eventually gave up and stopped supporting these leeches. They ended up being supported by our tax dollars and eventually moved to Buffalo where the rise in crime was not noticed.
And then there were the home grown terrorists the Lackawanna 6
And these 50 guys brought here and educated by kind people wanting to help.

No good deed goes unpunished.

No. I have enough to worry about. I would root for them from the sidelines, but that’s not my game to play.
No one offered to help the chick with the religious parents from yesterday, other than support. Same scenario.

@GloPro Exactly. Actually she needed more help since she did not have a job or apartment in Houston.

@Dutchess_III Here is a link to the CIA factbook for Gabon. Are you ready for this?

And be sure to hide the guns. Really!

@LuckyGuy That’s disappointing. Those boys went through such horrors they are permanently impacted I guess. I know there are some good stories that came out of the lost boys, but it doesn’t surprise me that the majority had trouble adjusting, or wound up in very bad situations or as criminals.

Two of them. They each have a studio.

I’ll look at your link @LuckyGuy.

I don’t think I saw what you wanted me to see @LuckyGuy…?

I’ll be bringing up your points to Rick as we go, guys…

@JLeslie Yes. It was sad. They went through so much. They definitely grew up with a different sense of justice and normal life. It did not matter to them that people were donating their time and money. They quickly expected everything to be handed to them, since it was handed to them as soon as they arrived. They expected that to continue and (I am guessing here) resented when people asked them to behave and take responsibility.
It was a disaster. And now there are 50 more somewhat educated, English speaking Somalis ready to be radicalized.
The few percent that made good were vastly outnumbered by the ones who caused so much trouble.

Rick doesn’t know these people from Adam, and you want to let them live on your property?

Fuck that.

I mean, I have invited homeless people to stay with me for a few days or a few weeks, but they were regulars at our local that I’ve known for years, and their background checks were clean and reliable.

And it’s not like if you do this and don’t like how it goes you can just ship them back to where they came from. Look up the squatter’s rights in your area.

Visit, @Seek. Visit for a couple of days. Not live. And they aren’t homeless.

Let’s make this clear

a) They are not homeless
b) They are not illegal immigrants.

@Dutchess_III How did they get here? How will you verify their stories?

Why are you willing to risk your home stability and peace of mind for such a risky venture? Especially for total strangers that seem to be employed?

They will visit for a few days. Really? And then what? Will you both be responsible for finding them jobs, and apartments? Will you cosign…. Go back to one of my earlier posts.

I didn’t say they were either.

I’m saying letting complete strangers stay at your house is generally not a good idea.

No, someone above assumed they were illegal immigrants. Why the would assume that is beyond me.

No we would never cosign anything. Helping them find work and a place to live, on their dime, sure.

I did not assume they were illegals. If they are working at a business hotel they are most likely legal.
The example I gave was how the farmer got screwed for being nice .

How will you refuse to cosign? Will you state that up front? And if they beg….?.

@BeenThereSaidThat made the asumption that they were illegals.

Will I state it up front? How are up front? Well, if they say “Will you cosign” I will say “No.”

If it even goes that far I’ll take all of this into consideration guys. I really appreciate your input. AND concern!

@Dutchess_III It’s probably an adventure for them. They can see a new place and stay for free. I guess a good predictor maybe is what their lives were like before the unrest in their country. If they lived most of their civilized surrounded by people with good natures.

The exchange and pay it forward of good intentions and good people is not understood by those who have never experienced it. I remember a friend of mine who taught at a community college in Memphis gave an extra credit pay it forward project for her students. 2 out of the 30 bothered to do it. Of course, the two already had A’s. She said it was like most of the students didn’t even understand it, or understand they might get reward besides the grade for helping someone randomly. I told her, it’s because no one has done it for them. She agreed. Their mentality is just different after being raised in bad conditions and poverty. Poverty does not have to mean people aren’t giving or protective of each other, but in this case it did. Too many of them are surrounded by gangs, drugs, and gunfire. They were barely able to do the classwork. These were Americans, born and raised here.

When I was growing up I knew men who were waiters here who were Engineers in their country. One of the housekeeping people Ina store I worked in had been a businessman in his country. He was still working on his English.

@LuckyGuy Why are you so negative? They are not going to ask her to consign anything. dutchess can just make it clear how long they can stay. One week, 3 days, whateve, before they get there.

@Dutchess_III Look, if you want to do it, just have the shotgun at the ready. Let us know how it goes. :)

I was just watching a preview of a new Amish program and a line from the show went something like, “the bible says strangers are angels in our lives.” I think that can be true.

Thank you @JLeslie! Hey…I’m pretty good about not letting myself get pushed into things, or guilt tripped into things. When I first moved to Winfield I had an old neighbor from Wichita track me down. She begged me to let her, and her son and daughter, live with us “for a while.” I just had a bad, bad feeling about it. I don’t even remember what she’s like now. Anyway, it was hard, because she had the kids, but I said “No.” I could barely feed myself and my kids. No way could I support 3 more. And it’s hard to remember, but I don’t think she was a good neighbor, either.
I thought it was really weird that she tracked me down…it just came out of the blue. I don’t even know how she found me.

@JLeslie Here is why I am negative: @Dutchess_III wrote “Well, now Rick is working on getting them here, to our little town. His plan is to help them get them higher paying positions in one of the many manufacturing businesses we have around here.”

So he is thinking about getting them jobs! If they have jobs they need a places to stay! And how do they get to the jobs? A car. And so it goes. . This is not just a weekend adventure. It is the beginning of a long relationship. Would Rick risk his reputation like that for a relative? Probably not.
That is why I am negative.
And the experiences I saw in my own community solidified it.

As @LuckyGuy correctly notes, “help an immigrant get his family to America” means a lot more than letting him (or ‘his family’ – and do you know how big his family is, and who he considers to be ‘family’?) stay in the RV for a few nights.

Most immigrants need to be sponsored, which means a lot more in real legal and financial terms than “Yeah, we’ll provide a reference on a résumé.” It means being the financial backup for broken leases, overdrawn bank accounts, misused credit cards and a host of other issues that many newcomers to this country have no experience with. It means bailing them out of jail when they unknowingly commit traffic and misdemeanor infractions that get them arrested from time to time.

It means a hell of a lot more than encouraging and being arm’s-length “supportive” and providing a lead on a job or the like. In fact, sponsorship generally means guaranteeing a job will be available. “The people who co-signed for them in Houston” is most likely their current sponsor, who is most likely in a financial / employment position to provide those things. When they leave Houston, they will need to have a new sponsor.

As much as I do want to encourage free and open immigration to the USA – and I do, because it helps the immigrant and it helps the society, too – if you don’t know what that involves right now, you could be opening yourself up to a lot more responsibility than you ever bargained for. Green-card immigrants are not free to pick up and move into any new job in the way that citizens are. (I wish that it weren’t that way, but it is.)

That’s something to think about @CWOTUS. If they have a sponsor why do you assume they wouldn’t help them if they moved here?

We’ll see where it goes. I’ll talk to Rick. Probably nothing will come of it, but it would be nice to have them visit, see Kansas. Not that it’s that much different than Texas! But it would be an experience for them, and us.

I am with @LuckyGuy‘s suspicions and concerns. Doormen can make great money upwards of $200.00 a day or more. IMO they do not need help. Google Gabon and scams and they even list doormen and bellhops in that country as kingpins in running scams. Sorry but I give this idea a thumbs down. I would not do this without more back checking on them. Ask them for references or call the hotel and speak to the manager.

I didn’t see anything like that in your link @Crazydawg. They just mentioned email scam…..

If America is allowing people from that country to immigrate because of unrest they might not need a sponsor. There are many different types of Visas, and of course sometimes there is asylum.

@LuckyGuy Valid point. There may easily be a miscommunication of expectations, that should be cleared up before they visit.

Good thoughts @LuckyGuy and @JLeslie. Wish I had more control over it, but it’s my husband doing the talking….

One more thing that comes to mind, people outside of America in poor countries often buy into the whole America is paved with gold streets, and they might be very idealistic about the situation where you live. Your husband talking about getting them a job and being able to help them might reinforce their idealism about America.

Well, all he’d do is refer them. They’d have to get the job on their own. I’m sure he’d make that clear.

I’m seriously taking to heart everything you guys are saying. Thanks.

@Dutchess_III What makes you so sure that they are here legally? are you positive?

It doesn’t matter if they are legal. She is not employing them.

well if the question was “would I help an immigrant” I would answer yes. BUT no way in hell would I help anyone who is here illegally.

How are you so certain that they aren’t here legally, @BeenThereSaidThat? And how are you so certain that they’re “looking to scam people even more then they probably have”?
Do you assume every immigrant is a criminal of some kind?
Pretty sure my grandparents, and Rick’s, grandparents weren’t criminals.

Illegals get under-the-table jobs. Not jobs with national hotel chains.

conservative’s motto is ‘guilty until proven innocent, and suspected to be guilty after proven innocent’

Addendum to @ragingloli‘s comment: ”... unless they are wealthy, in which case they are innocent regardless of guilt.”

Is that what it is @ragingloli? :(

I think this is a grand idea, @Dutchess_III. And you have a really swell husband for wanting to do this.
Seriously.
This is what is considered being Godly. I know you don’t believe in the guy, but there is thing about casting your bread on the water and it will come back tenfold.
I hope you enjoy your company. They sound like really nice guys.

I have read all the negative responses here and I think it is just that all these jellies really love you and are just worried for you and Rick.
I think rick knows what he is doing.

Make sure they aren’t giving up their apartment or something extreme like that. They should know your husband can’t guarantee them a job.

I read all the posts. First, @Dutchess_III, if they park cars, they may not work for the hotel, they may work for a company that the hotel contracts to do their parking. Even if they work for the hotel, they may be illegals in that some employers are not so strict with the proof that they look at for immigrant employees. OR the guys may be using someone else’s ID. Let me give you an example. A former co-worker’s husband worked for a national restaurant chain under someone else’s name. Her cousin was a “coyote” in Arizona and got him false ID. Even though his real name was x, the people at his job knew him as Y, because he had to go with what his illegal ID said he was.

So you may have these guys who work for a company contracted by the hotel who lets them work off the books or they may be working under someone else’s ID.

If they are here illegally, they’re not likely to admit it.

My coworker is from Africa and I’m sure he could tell me all kinds of horror stories about people and how they get here and tricks they pull.

I knew a woman who was from a country near Russia, and she had a baby with a good friend of mine. She went back to her country and her visa expired, so she could not re-enter the US. He wanted me to sponsor her. I looked into what would be required. I would have to provide 5 years of tax returns and I would have to sign something saying I would support her if she could not support herself, and I would have to be willing and able to pay for her to return to her home country if things didn’t work out here for her. Oh hell no. No thank you.

It seems you are enthusiastic about having some foreign guests and showing them around. Maybe feeling like you helped someone would give you a good feeling. Like others have said, there may be others who are easier to help, may be more grateful for your help, maybe someone who is less risky. Realize that people like this are from countries that are ruled by warlords, countries where diseases are common and health care is not, countries where graft and corruption are the way of the land. America is the promised land and you are rich compared to 99 percent of the people in their country. Be careful. Better safe than sorry.

Can an illegal alien get a driver’s license? The liability of having an undocumented worker with no license parking cars leads me to believe it’s not an issue.

@GloPro Depends on the state. Some states allow illegal aliens to get a driver’s license. Some don’t allow it, but don’t have the license expire with the visa, so if the immigrant stays past their visa (this happens a lot) they still have a drver’s license. Some states do date the expiration of the driver’s license with the date of their visa expiration. It’s a problem in the US that the driver’s license is the main form of ID and the one people are most familiar with. It is perceived as making people “legal” but as far as ai know there is not a federal standard for them and immigration is a federal issue.

For jobs I used to always bring my passport instead of my license and social security card because my passport is way handier than my SS card. I can’t tell you how many times it was like the person taking the ID’s had never seen a passport and thought I needed to still supply other ID. Not that I had a new job ever year, but still, it always amazed me that it seemed like they had never been handed a passport before. I guess back in the day people often carried their SS card in their wallets in general. I never have. I remember when VA used to make your driver’s license number your SS number. I always thought that was really stupid. It wasn’t the only state. Some states used to give the option of your SS number or a random number.

My friend with the coyote in her family – they know what states don’t check certain ID’s at DMV. Also, on occasion you’ll see DMV workers getting arrested for allowing illegal immigrants get licences (of course, for probably thousands of dollars each time). If that is happening, you know they’re probably only catching a low percentage, and there would be a network of people involved.

@JLeslie My point was more the liability of someone undocumented with no license crashing a really nice car would cost the company some major cash. I doubt a company would subject themselves to that liability. A passport is great for taxes, but not if you’re applying to be a valet.

@GloPro I see. Well, in the states that undocumented people do have a license I guess the insurance holds up? I really don’t know. Employing people who are not legal to work is a whole different thing. If I let someone without a license drive my car and they crash does my insurance not hold up? I have no idea. I would think it doesn’t matter, but that is a total guess. What if they have a driver’s license from their country? Also, it might be different for individuals than employers.

Proving you are legal to work in the US whether it be a passport or some other forms of ID is just that, proving eligibility to work. All employers are supposed to check those things, but of course not all do. Under the table work the employer would not care much, except that it can be a very serious charge employing people who are not legal to work.

I try to never valet. I hate when I basically have no choice. I live in FL and we have valets everywhere. Restaurants, the mall, all sorts of places that a lot of other parts of the country don’t have available.

Obviously it’s different everywhere, but the valet services here are run by the hotels, not sub-comtracted. A NV state license and drug tests are required.
For me to drive a Search and Rescue vehicle I have to have a CA driver’s license. Basically the license must be from the state of employment. This is a very small town. I have no idea how the valet in San Fran, for example, works.

Well, they’re from Texas which is probably the most rabidly anti-immigrant nation in the country!
Hey, thanks you guys. I’ll let you know.

LOL.

Don’t be so sure. Remember President Bush was very sympathetic regarding immigration policy. A lot of people in the Republican party didn’t like him for that.

@Dutchess_III: If you go to the Texas border towns, like Brownsville, it’s just like being in Mexico. The border is fluid and people come and go across it all day long.

Been there, as a kid. My folks took us into Mexico. We stayed in a hotel in Brownsville.
I really don’t know what their attitudes are towards immigrants who want to stay in the States permanently. and not just visit or work, then go back.

@jca Relevant :)

I found this map depicting the laws for driver’s licenses regarding legal or illegal. I didn’t under stand all the lingo.

@Dutchess_III I think that is the border crossing some of my husband’s cousins use. They live in Matamoros and the kids go to school every day in America.

As a side note. Do you think Al Jazeera published that article to inform as many people as possible about the border porosity and potential weakness?
Why not discuss the tunnels between Egypt and Gaza?

No, I don’t @LuckyGuy. I thought it was interesting.

Changing attitudes on immigration in Texas: Relevant:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/us/the-way-north.html?_r=0#p/12

@jca I think most border states the majoriy of people are empathetic to the Hispanics who come over. What they hate is when they see crime or that their neighborhoods are being destroyed. Most immigrants are hard working and trying to provide for their families. That line in your article where someone says she want the grandparents to make and effort to learn English and not rely on their grandchildren. I have a real frustration with people who get angry when older people who are immigrants don’t learn English well. I really cannot understand the anger, it fails the golden rule test, and it shows no knowledge of history in our country, because historically many immigrant groups from many parts of the world did not learn English well if they came here when they were much older.

I do however think it is ridiculous a person in McDonald’s did not know what a straw was. If they are new employees I am sure they will learn quickly, we don’t know if possibly they were able to speak English except for that one vocabulary word. When I lived in Miami there were literally billboards all in Spanish in some parts of town, and in the corner it said, We Speak English. Basically the reverse of what you usually see in America. when I walked into a restaurant it was not uncommon for them to greet us in Spanish and ask “how many?” In Spanish. If you replied in English they immediately switched to English, just as they do in Montreal, QC. That is most often the case in very bilingual cities. I think Miami is now 70% Hispanic! Huge percentage. Not a border state though obviously. Unless you consider it like a border for Cuba and even Haiti. A huge percentage of Miami residents are foreign born. I think it is over 50%.

I always say I don’t know anyone born in the US who cannot speak English. There might be some remote examples of this, but it is not the norm.

Some folks WAAAY down south need subtitles when they speak their version of “English!”

I got into a debate with some jerk on FB about people speaking English. I pointed out that a good percentage of the world’s population can speak their language and English, and the fact that I only know one language kind of made me ashamed.

That person came back with, “Well, what other language, besides theirs and English, should they speak????!!!!!” The arrogance just took my breath away.

looking at future projections, Russian and/or Chinese. And if we ever decide to throw down again, German

@Dutchess_III On some shows they do provide subtitles in English to translate the English dialect being spoken.

I have met people born and raised here whose English is so difficult to understand. They are almost always poor, and usually over the age of 50, and probably iliterate. I can figure out what they are saying if I know the context, I understand about every third word and get the gist of it. For my husband it is impossible for him to understand them since English is his second language. Ironic that the Mexican immigrant speaks better English than them. Sad too.

I know @JLeslie. I’ve seen them. That’s what prompted me to make that comment.

I see them to translate for Americans from some Irish and British accents too. It always strikes me as funny we need English interpretation for English.

I know! And if they have to translate the British…who’s doing it wrong? :D

It’s usually not the typical mainstream British accent. They also, like America and most countries tend to have very strong dialects among the lower classes. That’s not always the case though.

I wonder why that is?

Because if you can’t read you don’t know the spelling, and the spelling helps us stick to the correct pronounciation.

But accents are learned from other people….

I mean, if I counted on just spelling I’d be up a creek! The word “Colonel,” for example….

@Dutchess_III Right, accents are learned from other people, and dialect. If you read a lot you see the actual “right” words and grammar. For instance, my husband a few months ago learned the expression, “at the brink of disaster.” He had always thought it was brim. He didn’t even know the word brink, he said he only knew it was an alarm company. He has heard it said correctly many times I am sure, but he didn’t know the their word, so he fit in a word in his mind that made sense in the sentence. If he had happened to read something using brink, he would have questioned what word he had been using.

Then you have accents that develop because of a former language. If a whole community has a lot of people with from a certain part of the world then their first language can influence how they speak English. You might remember my story about being in Bath, England and we were talking to the owner of the Italian restaurant we were eating in and my dad asked if he was from Brooklyn. The man said, “no, I’m Italian.” My dad realized that’s how Italians sound when they learn English as a second language as an adult.

If enough people in the community are using the wrong word, or using a specific accent, it passes down to the next generation, especially if they have no way of putting the pronounciation or word choice in check. Some accents still hold even when we know the actual spelling. We also know words evolve, so when a whole community starts using a word a lot it can get added to our vocabulary. Who do you think is more likely to make up a word or use it in a new way? Gailcalled, Jeruba, or someone who doesn’t have a strong vocabulary and maybe speaks English as a second language? Gailcalled has a strong vocabulary to pull on to describe what she wants to say. Without the strong vocabulary foreign words might be injected into sentences or new uses of words that the person thinks sounds right, but isn’t. Also, grammar is used that is incorrect, and then their whole family uses it, then other people around them. Sounding right has a lot of influence, which goes with what you were saying, but I think it all works together to help form dialects and accents, and I think the dialect and accent starts somewhere for a reason and then gets passed down.

I have a very large (not strong) vocabulary, if we’re talking about accurate standarad usage.

Vernacular

Vernacular, dialect, accent, I am talking about all of it.