Are the double standards concerning statutory rape justified? (possibly NSFW)

Men are perverts. They look at such event with envy. They project their current selves back onto their juvenile selves, and think to themselves, “damn, I wish I was that lucky”.
Especially if the teacher is hot.
Plus there is the whole issue of pervading sexism.
Females are still considered the weak gender, that has to be protected.
They are also expected to keep their “purity” until marriage.
Hence the whole slut shaming thing.
Males on the other hand are expected to be “players”. That also influences the fantasising of adult males of their younger selves banging their hot teacher.

It’s my impression adults, and especially the parents of the child, are still very upset whether it be a male or female teacher.

However, if we look at how the teen (I am assume we are talking about teens, and not very young children) the teen girl is more likely to be messed up psychologically from it so I think that is the problem. Teen boys are more likely to look at it as a cool thing. Some of them might get very emotionally entangled with the teacher, but I think it is less likely. Teen girls most likely were either outright coerced by the teacher, or they really believe the teacher is seriously interested in them.

Nice continuation of the double standard. Shakes head, walks away.

@Adirondackwannabe Who are you talking to?

@JLeslie Not you. It was the men are perverts answer. Sorry mods.

@Adirondackwannabe Almost every man I know who has talked about losing their virginity has a story of losing it to an older woman/girl. They all thought it was cool from what I could tell.

@JLeslie I could see were it might be better with an experienced partner. It would make the experience better. That’s not what I was referring to. It’s the blatant extreme sexist attitude that turns me off, from either gender.

@Adirondackwannabe Your answer is, I hate to say it, very male. It has nothing to do with whether the older person in the situation is a more experienced lover. This is part of the problem with children who are molested and raped. It is confusing to them because sexual stimulation can feel good while psychologically they are being damaged. A 15 year old having great sex with a 30 year old doesn’t matter. The 15 year old was taken advantage of and the 30 year old is a perv. Doesn’t matter what gender really.

@JLeslie Back up the bus. I didn’t say exploitation was okay. I just said an experienced partner. If the age difference is that big, as in your example that is disgusting. How is a child supposed to deal with that experience?

No.

/Thread.

The student/teacher sex extends beyond male/female. It also includes same sex relations. In case you are interested, here is a list of female teachers busted for having sex with students. That is one huge list.

To answer your questions:
1.) I have not run across any report on what happens to the male students with a female teacher and how they are affected. My guess would be that it is like any relationship; it depends upon what occurred. Male students with a male teacher (or any other person with position power) often doesn’t turn out well.

2.) As for female minors, again, it would depend upon the sexual relationship and emotional bond formed in each case. My guess is that there would be more emotional attachment from female minors unless they did not consent.

This is not to say that the same doesn’t apply to males. I just think that at that age, more males are more willing to have sex for the sake of sex, while it is more common for young women to consider it a bonding experience on the path to building a relationship.

It would be very interesting to know what these adults say to these minors, and if it is handled differently by sex.

@Adirondackwannabe Well, the teacher is probably definitely over age 22, and the student is likely under 18. Doesn’t even have to be a teacher in my book, any 20 something man or woman interested in someone under the age of 18, who is fully aware of his or her age, is taking advantage in my book, and possibly a perv. Doesn’t matter teacher or not. The one borderline situation might be the student is 18 and the teacher is 22, but how often is that the case? The teacher is dating and having sex with a student their first year out of college? Not a good start to a career. If the student is 18 it isn’t statutory anyway, so it would have to be a 17 year old student and 22 year old teacher.

@JLeslie Can’t agree with you. I’ve met 17 or 18 year olds that were very mature, and 22 or 23 year olds that were totally immature. You can’t make a blanket case like that.

@Adirondackwannabe I can if it is a teacher. This is not a 22 year old still living at home and not quite launched into adulthood. The teacher has spent 4 years in college and certainly knows what statutory rape is.

I agree the teacher is an authority figure, That part is dead wrong, man or woman.

Here is a very personal and very unambiguous article by one of the then teen-aged male students who were sexually abused during their stay at the Horace Mann School. NYT Magazine article.

Adult males abusing boys. The boys in this case did not look at it as “a cool thing.”

If I can jump into this two-person colloquy ..

Historically, I think that adult teacher/teen female was far more common and definitely got more newspaper space (and criticism).

I’m not sure that’s true any more – at least not to the same degree. There have been a bunch of publicized cases (and I assume many more that never make the news) of female teacher / teen male. In fact, a couple of them have resulted in the teen marrying the teacher (when he became of age) and also a couple have resulted in babies.

So statutory rape used to be a male-centered phenomenon, but has lessened somewhat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Kay_Letourneau
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/01/09/weymouth-middle-school-worker-charged-with-statutory-rape/

just two of many

@Adirondackwannabe Not just an authority figure. It is hard for me to give a college educated person the excuse that they are immature and having sex with a minor is ok. I don’t mean someone with a college education is necessarily smarter than someone without a college education, certainly many people who don’t have a college education are smart and mature. But, I think a college education is simply an indication the person is not still in the younger mindset when we live with our parents and can be less responsible about life.

On the other Q about statutory rape my answers show I am inclined not to call it rape. She is 17 he is 20. Just a few years makes a huge difference at these ages. 20 is borderline. 22+, There is a huge difference in my mind between men and women who are in their mid twenties and men and women under the age of 20.

@gailcalled That article is so long I didn’t read it all, but it looks to me the children were in 8th grade. Am I right? That is much younger than 17. Also, I wonder if for boys they are affected differently if it is same sex? Although, no matter what, 8th grade is so young I think no one is surprised the students are negatively affected. It is clear pedophilia in my opinion. I know more than one gay man who had early sexual experiences with older boys. The only ones who seem traumatized are when it was someone much older in an authority position.

The abuse was not limited to 8th grade boys. (Best to read the whole article before deciding what it looks like to you)

I don’t think there is a double standard as much as there is as yet no real social convention, and thus no real standard, about how to handle the Gen X and Gen Y female teachers who seem to lack the inhibitions or self esteem that would stop them from seducing younger male students.

@JLeslie I believe the age of consent in NY is 17, and I said 17 or 18 year olds, so it isn’t statutory rape. I agree with your principle, we do a lot of growing up from our 18 years to 20’s. But it’s different for everyone. (I really enjoy debating issues with you. We can disagree with the ideas but not attack each other. How nice is that?)
@gailcalled I couldn’t read the whole article. It turned my stomach. Maybe later.

A so called group cannot have equal rights without accepting equal responsibility.

@Adirondackwannabe: Unfortunately it is a clear picture of a horrible reality. We knew the then-headmaster, Inslee Clark, who had been considered publicly to be an exemplary headmaster of The Horace Mann School, a prestigous independent NYC day school, where these events took place.

The bizarre irony was that Clark was gay and spent huge amounts of energy hiding it during his years in independent education. He used to date women briefy for show. So he has a series of putative girlfriends. But everyone knew.

Sex between teacher and student is looked down on, because it would involve the illicit use of authority and control and trust and manipulation, regardless of whether the teacher is a hot woman or not.

@gailcalled I know. It’s scary how many people get to those places of authority and then use it to prey on others. I will try to read it, but I just couldn’t go any further now.

@Adirondackwannabe I’m ok with 17 year olds not being considered statutory, we can agree there, whether it be law or not. The details of the Q are about teacher’s and students, so that is obviously an added twist and the OP is not limiting to 17 year olds, we could be talking about 14 year olds.

The borderline ages get more tricky, but a person in an authority position really does have a problem with persuing a minor.

@JLeslie Yes, there I agree with you 100 percent. :)

A one-page summary of the Horace Mann scandal and follow-ups, indicating that over 30 students were molested. (Don’t feel you have to read it but you are hearing the indictments from the horses’ mouths, so to speak.)

I think you are mistaken in your assessment of where the double standard lies. You seem to think that people feel differently about teachers who have sex with students depending on whether or not the teacher is male or female, but the history of prosecution and news media reactions suggests that these actions are treated very similarly.

The double standard is what we expect of the students. Male students are expected to be undamaged, while female students are expected to be damaged beyond repair. There’s no consideration for the possibility that some of the male students might have been violently coerced and that some of the female students might have been mostly willing participants.

I say “mostly willing” because the age difference and power dynamic at minimum blurs the lines around sober, uncoerced consent. Even the students who are old enough to understand what they are getting into can still be manipulated by someone with power and a much deeper knowledge of sex, seduction, and teenager psychology.

Therefore, I don’t think the first question is a very good one. You want to ask just about the age difference, but there’s a lot more to the problem of student/teacher relationships than one being older. A lot of the manipulation comes from the power dynamic, and so we can expect a lot of the harm to come from the abuse of that power.

Same with the second question. “Statutory rape” is too broadly defined. In the absence of so-called “Romeo and Juliet” laws, anyone over the age of consent having sex with anyone under the age of consent is considered statutory rape. So what counts as statutory rape in Arizona (where the age of consent is 18) might not in Alabama (where the age of consent is 16).

But to answer your question, no I don’t think males as a group are affected differently than females as a group. You’re going to get a variety of reactions in both sexes because, like I already said, some males will have been violently coerced and others mostly willing, while some females will have been violently coerced and others mostly willing (plus a lot of degrees in between). This is going to be very important in determining how someone reacts to the event.

However, society reacts to male and female rape of all kinds very differently and tends to treat male victims one way and female victims another way. So even though one male victim might be more damaged by the event than another, they are treated the same. And even though one female victim might be less damaged than another, they are again treated the same. That’s the result of living in a sexist society.

@Adirondackwannabe I don’t think that @ragingloli was perpetuating the double standard, but pointing it out. This is how patriarchy works: teach men that sex is always good, and men can’t get raped expect by gay men and maybe ugly women; teach women that sex is always bad, and that even consensual sex makes you damaged goods. These ideas pervade people’s minds. If men are perverts, it’s because they’ve been taught to be. They’ve been told “this is what men do, and there’s something wrong with you if you don’t.” Now, we know that these messages don’t infect everybody, but they infect a lot of people—too many people—and most people probably have at least a little bit of it in them.

(There’s actually a lot of interesting feminist writing on how patriarchy affects men. The issue of male rape is a common one there, but also just the general disrespect with which sexist societies treat men by assuming they’re all animalistic. The damage done by strict gender roles is more blatant with regard to women, but men also suffer from them in ways that get papered over.)

@Uberwench You do not know how many firebombs I wanted to throw your way, but that would be counterproductive. What would be productive is to ask how we change the culture around us so this issue isn’t a problem. But how the hell do we change things if you’re throwing stuff like that out there and continuing the us versus them mentality? A man can only be raped by an ugly woman? Read that again and look at where that idea came from.

@Adirondackwannabe She was pointing out that this is an attitude that people have. Pointing out that it exists (which is true—I have come across these attitudes myself) is not continuing it.

@DominicX I didn’t deny that it exists. But how about we try to fix it? And fix what brought the question up?
Edit: We’re not going to change entire countries, but we have to start somewhere.

Jesus fucking Christ, @Adirondackwannabe, did you even read what I wrote? I was condemning the idea, not endorsing it! I even said where it comes from: sexism/patriarchy. I don’t know where you get the idea that I’m continuing an us vs. them mentality, either, unless its the people vs. the oppressors (which doesn’t seem like a bad mentality to have). Hell, that was the point of noting how feminism (which opposes these sorts of attitudes) has long included male victims of patriarchy in its set of concerns. It’s not men vs. women. It’s humans vs. the cultural memes that oppress them.

@Uberwench We can get into a flame war or we can discuss it rationally. Your choice. I read exactly what you wrote.

No, you fucking didn’t. And until you make an effort, you’re the reason we can’t discuss this rationally.

@Adirondackwannabe Talking about “firebombs” and accusing someone of continuing a harmful mentality doesn’t seem much like a rational discussion to me.

@DominicX No, I was just pointing out how the initial comments ticked me off. I had to stop and be more reasonable.

So, attitudes that I was condemning ticked you off, and for that you get mad at me? Cool.

@Uberwench Give me a minute to reread it and reconsider. You’re not the only one who called me on this.

Okay, sorry. I think I must have misread that last response to @DominicX, then. “Cool” for real this time.

@Uberwench No, you’re right. I came at it like a defensive guy type of view. My apologies.

@Adirondackwannabe It’s okay. We all get that way sometimes.

@Uberwench It’s a sensitive issue. It’s easy to get off track. I’ll behave.:)

Double standards come into play when a different sentence is issued for situations where there are two or more almost identical scenarios that are against the law. Without any statistics based upon facts and based upon state sentences, it is impossible to answer.

I think girls have more problems with it emotionally because we expect them to. Boys are expected to “sow their wild oats” without remorse. Girls are supposed to feel guilty about having sex.

When I was in HS a young female teacher of mine had an affair with a student. She was a first year teacher, he was a senior. It was no secret. In fact I remember several of us girls up at her desk while she bragged on some romantic aspect of her affair with one of our classmates. It was SO weird. She was all giggly, like a teenager in love. I think they ended up getting married. His name was Jessie. I forget her name…

I agree there is a major double standard, it is and has always been true that young men crushing on and sexually engaging with their hot teachers, older women, the Mrs. Robinson thing and patronizing prostitutes is seen as a rite of sexual passage.
Females are shamed and the older men that seduce them are perverts, even f the girl is the aggressor and seducer.
Personally I think, gender aside, that all “adults” that allow themselves to engage in sexual activity with much younger kids, be that those in positions of guidance and authority are coming from the same rope, just different ends.

The rope of ego, immaturity and the need to feel powerful and flattered.
I have a daughter, but, I’ll tell you what, had I had a son and his teacher seduced him at age 12. 13, 14, I’d have been hopping mad and would have pressed SR charges, you freaking bet!

@Dutchess_III I agree that part of how the child reacts is because we tell them how they should feel as a society. It’s why on this Q I mention to the OP to not decide to feel raped or call it rape because of a legal definition. How we frame and label incidents in our head matters. I actually don’t like the term statutory ralem I wish there was another word for it so young teens don’t have to be labeled with being a rape victim just because of an age difference. I’m sure many peoplemwould disagree with me.

Sometimes children feel the whole situation is wrong from the very beginning, they are coerced by the teacher, it can be either sex, and they are not going to fair well. I think it isn’t unusual for a teen boy to want to lose their virginity and for a teen girl to be trying to figure out if she wants to and who she is willing to lose it with. So, the boy is kind of waiting for the chick that will let him do it, while the girls is in a more passive mode trying to decide who she will let take away her virginity.

@JLeslie Doesn’t even have to be a teacher in my book, any 20 something man or woman interested in someone under the age of 18, who is fully aware of his or her age, is taking advantage in my book, and possibly a perv.
That is very arrogant and cavalier attitude. Not every spot on the globe adheres to what is believed in the US. Would you tell a man in Albania that if a 15 yr. old female finds him hot and wants him to ride her hard and put her away wet, he should not even think about it when the age of consent for females there is 14 yr.? Would you call a male over 20 a perv in Austria, Iceland, Honduras, or Liechtenstein, which the age of consent for females is 14 yr. also? What about Paraquay , which has an age of consent that is 12 yr.? I am sure you would have a fieldday with them; maybe nuke all those slimy pervs. What about stateside here, those pervs in South Dakota let females age 16 yr. decide for themselves who they will boink, the same age of consent as West Virginia. Just playing the numbers as to who is ready or should and who is being played or not, don’t really work.

@filmfann Sex between teacher and student is looked down on, because it would involve the illicit use of authority and control and trust and manipulation, regardless of whether the teacher is a hot woman or not.
That is a ghost, a slight of hand. Even if there were no boss/employee, teacher/student, coach/player, therapist/patient, jailer/prisoner, etc. aspect to it, it is still frowned on.

As far as the OP question is concerned I can’t see a double standard for lack of a starting standard. It all seems to me about one group of people trying to control the sexuality or context of another group of people; the same they accuse others in a well-known institution of doing. It is basically opinion, any sex that maybe unnatural is natural is enough people do it and more accept it; likewise natural sex is evil if enough people rise against it. So is right and who is not? In many cases you can’t use biology because of you do, some people get offended. If you are not going to use biology then the sword cuts both ways, where it helps your case on the right hand, it cannot help on the left. The folly is people want to have all their cake and eat every crumb, that is not possible without hypocritical opinion.

@Hypocrisy_Central Age of consent is different to me than the difference between the age of the two people. I don’t know how the laws are worded in those places. I think some of the laws in America are stupid. I don’t think an 18 year old high school boy should have to worry about having consensual sex with a 15 year old, in fact I lost my virginity that way. He was a senior in high school and I was a junior. We were basically one year apart, but not in age.

In America we a set up for kids to be in high school through about age 18, and that affects the culture and the society. Other countries kids barely get through 8th grade, some countries they regularly get out of school at age 16. I think that changes this. Girls under 18 do generally look different, they look very young, so an older man is pursuing a very young female, I do kind of have a problem with it. 16 looks much different than 22. Usually it does anyway, although some of these girls are so heavy they look older.

I remember one culture in Afruca, I don’t remember what country, force feeds their young teens for a week to plump them up and get them used to eating more so men will want to marry them. Feed them fat so they develop boobs and hips and curves. It is torture to me. I can’t comment on every law around the globe, but marrying off girls under the age of 18 or not protecting young women with laws bothers me. The law helps girls avoid being pressured or taken advantage of. Most men I know who talk about waiting until a girl is 18 before he will approach is just talking about fucking her, not having a relationship with her. He can fuck a ton of girls, he doesn’t have to fuck the 16 year old. Leave her alone.

@JLeslie Girls under 18 do generally look different, they look very young, so an older man is pursuing a very young female, I do kind of have a problem with it.
Maybe in Florida but not everywhere.. Here there are females who are under 18 yr. of age but you would not know it less you looked at their I.D. Some of them are freshmen and more developed than some seniors. What about young females who pursue much older males, do you have a problem with them, or just the man who responds to their advances?

It is torture to me. I can’t comment on every law around the globe, but marrying off girls under the age of 18 or not protecting young women with laws bothers me.
Here in the US it is not about marrying off young women, or even about getting married at all; basically only about self-gratification.

The law helps girls avoid being pressured or taken advantage of.
So the law helps stop young ladies from being pressured into sex or taken advantage by the most popular male student on campus, the captain of the football team, that bang geek the lonely freshman encounters, etc.?

Most men I know who talk about waiting until a girl is 18 before he will approach is just talking about fucking her, not having a relationship with her.
Even if she is over 18 yr. many guys I know are not thinking about having a relationship with her, he is just looking to ride her hard and put her away wet. If he can extend it for a time under the guise of a relationship until something better comes along all the more better; he isn’t in it to put a ring on it.

@Uberwench Yes, the biggest enemies of men are in fact, other men. Why can’t males report rape without ridicule? Because other males will ridicule them. I got booted off of a voice for men for pointing this out. Esmay was raped as a child by women, but yet refuses to acknowledge his true enemies, tradcon men.

I still don’t think I’m wrong about the double standard though. I’d have to ask for evidence to prove me wrong on the legal aspect of these sentences. The double standard is very obvious concerning how the media and general pubic views these incidents. Not too many people seem interested in lynching a female perpetrator like they do a male one for the same offenses.

There is a double standard.

I live in a very small town. There was a female teacher who lost her job recently due to an inappropriate relationship with a student. It was reported online in a local publication. At least half of the comments were from men, cheering on the student, saying things like, “I should have been so lucky in high school!” The other half condemned the teacher’s actions.

Definitely a double standard.

^Those men don’t speak for me.

I was called to the front of the class in a Christian elementary school and kissed full on the lips by a substitute teacher.

I was too high afterward to know what to do other than to keep my cool in front of the other students.

Now I realize just how exploited I had been.

I was too high? Do you mean stoned? In elementary school? Why did she kiss you?

I always thought @SecondHandStoke was a female, but he may be a male, which would explain his reaction about “getting high,” about a teacher kissing him on the lips…..I don’t think a girl would feel that way. I know I wouldn’t…

“Too high.” Too elated, too excited, too thrilled and surprised.

I know a guy who kissed his English teacher when he was 17. It wasn’t at school and he definitely instigated it, but it’s interesting the way he talked about it. He really liked her, and it was a “fit of passion” type thing. But he didn’t seem to have any regrets about it.

I never thought I’d know anyone who had done anything like that, but then he told me about it.

Elated, excited; I can’t even imagine having a reaction like that from an elementary age child being kissed by a teacher on the lips. I can’t imagine any adult kissing me on the lips when I was between the ages of 5 and 11. It sounds horrid to me if I go back to my childhood mind.

It sounds horrible to me too. @SecondHandStoke are you a male or a female? And the teacher who kissed you, was it a male or a female?

I’m male. The teacher was female and I realize now, quite young.

I was in fourth grade I think.

I cannot remember exactly how the exchange went but the concept of her kissing me came up between us, I in my seat, she standing at her desk. The whole class looking on.

I coolly deadpanned that she wouldn’t.

She told me to leave my desk and come to the front to the class. I did so.

She held my upper arms and planted her lips on mine. Our mouths closed but the kiss didn’t stop quickly. I was too caught up in the situation to recall the class’s reaction.

My head was spinning as I walked away but I wasn’t about to show it. Just wasn’t my image to be flustered OR too cocksure.

I told no one about it for many years. My parents do not know.

Looking back I’m shocked that no student reported her. I was not questioned anyone at the school.

Though for all I know she was. I never saw her again.

This was not the only not entirely appropriate thing that has happened between me and a teacher.

@SecondHandStoke
Was it a catholic school?

Not Catholic, Christian.

Run predominantly by Mennonites of all things.

@Dutchess_III What gave you the impression I was female.

Just curious. Please don’t feel a pressure to be PC. That would dilute the conversation of course.

When I was much younger I would have wanted sex reassignment if I had known such a thing existed then.

I don’t know why I thought that! Just did.

I think a girl child being kissed by an adult like that would react differently. I think.

^ Funny how our perception of genders confuses issues.

Well, when you said you felt high when the teacher kissed you, at that point I assumed you were a guy, because I don’t think a girl would feel that way. Assuming you were a guy because of that reaction may be stereotyping, but I was right!

And it is a little disconcerting to interact with someone who you think is a guy and who turns out to be a girl, and vis versa. Why that is, I don’t know.

^ While the situation was as crazy as it was wrong I was mainly elated for having engaged an adult and won.

This had nothing to do with some bro scorecard.

I manipulated and challenged with my intelligence and charm.

Doing this sort of thing was a major factor in my contentment for a long time in my life.

The perfect drug.

Good Lord. In a Christian school of all things. Not that it really matters what type of school.

I’m going to try to think of it as something that she thought was nothing. Many adults kiss everyone on the mouth, we have had Q’s about it on fluther. Well, I guess everyone they consider to be a relative or close to them. Maybe for those people a kiss on the lips with a child is always perceived as innocent.

I have no idea why I am trying to rationalize it. I am turned off by any lip kissing except for with a spouse/SO.

Well.

I just think of the hell it would have raised today.

only momentarily. then it would have been swept under the rug.
like all the child raping priests.

Oh, yeah. Geez. I had two male teachers seriously hit on me in HS. All us girls knew they were pervs. Never said anything about it though. Didn’t occur to us to.

@Dutchess_III I think there’s a great deal of unfair stereotyping too involving males, females along with desire and innocence. Most cultures are specifically designed to make males feel they need to desire sex in order to be considered true red-blooded boys/men. Females on the other hand are brainwashed into believing they’re the innocent apples on top of the trees who are always the victims, and that they can’t be too open about their own desires for sex in order to be perceived as lady-like and more desirable to males.

My own countless experiences have clearly demonstrated to me that females of all ages likely desire sex on the same level many males do. I remember while working as a mechanic for an industry around ten years ago I was required to take up some programming courses at the local vocational school in that area, so my entire days for several months were spent there.

As a thirty year old guy I was forced to attend a school and take courses with high school age students. It was an extremely uncomfortable experience for me because I had quite a few 16 to 18 year old females after me, trying to get my phone number, constantly flirting with me, following me, etc. It was especially uncomfortable because the staff there suspected I was provoking it, which I wasn’t, since I’m a very quiet guy who pretty much minds his own business. I’m definitely not the type of guy to pursue women of any age. Other guys used to joke to me about this, but I didn’t find anything about this funny.

I just wanted to point out what I stated in my first paragraph, and use my own experience to demonstrate it. The stereotype that boys want it while girls are innocent kind of makes my blood boil. The fact is males are molded by culture from an early age on to behave the way they do. I always wanted to wait to have sex, but other guys and women would usually pressure me into doing otherwise. When it comes to guys it seems it’s like damned if you do, damned if you don’t., so no wonder boys are so confused today pertaining to how they should behave around females. I also think both sexes think about and lust for sexual relations with others at about the same level and frequency, though the actions behind these thoughts concerning each sex tends to be different most of the time.

@Paradox25 I really don’t think the idea that girls don’t like sex or shouldn’t want sex is pretty much gone. Maybe the very religious with that whole promise ring to their father wierd thing they still have that idea, but even with them I think the girls are taught to enjoy sex with their spouses.

I do think that a lot of the girls who are agresssive sexually with boys are like that because they think that’s what boys want. I watched an Oprah show with teens a few years ago and the boys said they let the girls give them head because they aren’t going to say no if the girls want to do it. Let me tell you the girls were horrified, because they didn’t want to do it; it was more like they felt like they had to do it. Not because a boy forced them, but it was more peer pressure oriented.

A teen couple who were having sex on that same show, one of the experts on the show asked the couple what they expect with their relationship long term, and the girl talked about being together years from then and the boy said, well he barely could get any words out, “I don’t know, we are just in high school.” You should have seen the look on her face.

Even when the girls pursue the boys a lot of time I think it is still to satisfy the boys. It also partly is feeling powerful that they can get the guy.

@Paradox25 As a thirty year old guy I was forced to attend a school and take courses with high school age students. It was an extremely uncomfortable experience for me because I had quite a few 16 to 18 year old females after me, trying to get my phone number, constantly flirting with me, following me, etc. It was especially uncomfortable because the staff there suspected I was provoking it, which I wasn’t, since I’m a very quiet guy who pretty much minds his own business.
It had to be you, even if subconsciously because *no female in her right mind would want someone old enough to be her father, uncle, or much older brother, if they have any leanings towards a male that age, is because the lecherous bum is playing her! ~~~

Honestly, read some of the comments posted here, I would bet my dollars to anyone’s donuts, they are not buying it. Society has been indoctrinated to believe no female under 18 could ever desire a male over 18, much less want to boink him for their won satisfaction. That is a thought that gives them the heebee jeebies. To duck, dodge and hide from that fact, it is always the male, who is always some pervert. But you and I know the truth, but we will allow them their delusions.

@JLeslie Let me tell you the girls were horrified, because they didn’t want to do it; it was more like they felt like they had to do it. Not because a boy forced them, but it was more peer pressure oriented.
There is no law against it, no social backlash, in fact as you put it, there is only if you don’t do it. Why is anyone amazed? The chickens are coming home to roost. Look at who their role models are? The more Miley Cyrus takes her clothes off, has her vagina singing while she writhes atop a car scantily dressed, the more young female minions she garner, the more the press comes calling and the more magazine covers she gets.

A teen couple who were having sex on that same show, one of the experts on the show asked the couple what they expect with their relationship long term, and the girl talked about being together years from then and the boy said, well he barely could get any words out, “I don’t know, we are just in high school.” You should have seen the look on her face.
Oh well, it was just a priceless part of her anatomy and a one-in-a-lifetime experience she gave, expecting it to mean something. He on the other hand got a lifetime memory and ”gun belt bragging right”, it wasn’t special enough for him to think of it past prom not…..oh, but she got rid of that silly virginity, it was just in the way anyhow.

@JLeslie The stereotype being when girls pursue someone it’s different from when boys do it helps to perpetuate the way male sex offenders are viewed compared to female sex offenders. This is also the same attitude that keeps telling boys to keep doing what they are because they’re perverts and sex fiends no matter what they end up doing. Have you ever stopped to think that if you’re open to the possibility girls do what they do due to pressure that boys don’t have the same pressures on them to be aggressive?

Have you ever even talked to countless males of all ages who are actually disgusted themselves with society’s expectations that they need to be the aggressor, pursuer, hunter and have the need to lust after females for sex in order to be real men, or a true red-blooded male? These males are not a rarity, or some psychotic freaks living in their mother’s basements, but are everyday males.

@Hypocrisy_Central Well I think there are others who agree with me here as well, but there are others who simply can’t grasp the notion that females can lust for sex and males in the same way males can, or that females aren’t capable of evil on the same level males are. I think my latter points here are the general way society thinks, and this is the cause of the stereotypes that led to me asking this question. No matter what good a male does, no matter how good his intentions are, there must be an ulterior motive because he’s a male. No matter what bad a female does, no matter what their intentions are, they’re not really ‘bad’, but likely occur due to either psychological issues or because of a male. However, if a male doesn’t lust after sex or behave in the manner expected of him, he’ll be ridiculed for being a pansy, a beta male, a momma’s boy, a girly guy or worse.

Though I’m not the biggest fan of many people involved in men’s rights movements, just like I’m not the biggest fan of many feminists, I still feel there are a few decent people in each movement. I have critiqued this site because about three quarters of its members are what I term conservative masculists, but they still write good articles on there, and everything I had mentioned above was brought up in this powerful article The One Good Man.

The incidents at the school I had mentioned above were by far not the first time I had sex crazy girls after me. I used to deal with this at other schools I had attended, at parties, social events and at various work places too. Cognitive dissonance will prevent many from processing what I’m mentioning here, but males are no more or less evil than females, and just like many females want to be free from their oppression, many males want to be free from their ‘privileges’. Just like males need to be held accountable for their poor decisions without placing blame on other factors, females need to be held accountable for their poor decisions as well without placing the blame on other factors.

@Paradox25 I absolutely think boys are under peer pressure too. I also know there are female molesters and perverts.

There is no way you are going to convince that boys don’t push the sex thing in general. I was a teenager once, and I know my boyfriend worked on me to give it up, and I think that happens a lot. I would not say I was forced by any means, but I was not looking to lose my virginity, he certainly was waiting for me to do it though. The aggressive girls are all too often aggressive for the wrong reasons. This isn’t really about couples, my concern is girls and boys doing things with other kids they are not even really involved with.

However, that couple on Oprah, do you think the expert was surprised by the answers the boy and girl gave? No, she probably could have predicted the girl was hoping they would be together forever and the boy looked at as a nice relationship for now. But, I don’t have a problem with them having sex, I don’t feel she was coerced into sex.

I think boys get attached to girls too, I am not trying to say boys are callous sex fiends. There is a clear miscommunication about sex between a lot of teens.

My first kiss was because I was at a party and the other kids decided to play spin the bottle. I really did not want to play. We were in the basement and I went upstairs to the adults more than once trying to stall, but I wound up kissing two boys that night. I wish the parents had not left us alone all that time. It was 6th grade, so I was probably 11, maybe 10 years old. Peer pressure around sex is pretty bad, maybe adults need to address that better with children. Girls are giving head to boys in a closet rather than just a kiss. It’s being done in groups, not just a boy and girl alone in a car. Not that some of that did not happen in my day, but usually it was sex, not oral sex.

Here is a new case that may add to the discussion.

@JLeslie My first kiss was because I was at a party and the other kids decided to play spin the bottle.
Curious as to if the choice of game would have been more rated-G along the lines of charades, or something else, if the culture here in the US was not so sexually charged? The parents were not checking so I guess the kids figured they could perpetrate a sexual leaning game and not be noticed.

@Pied_Pfeffer Outside of providing proof again that one should not be dipping their wick all over with no ring on it, it is another example of inequality in birth rights; they want him to pay when he is a father against his will or unknown, but don’t want to compensate him if he wanted to raise the child, but was denied.

@Hypocrisy_Central I’m curious to know how many kids actually wanted to play spin the bottle. I was the youngest in my grade, so no hormones surging yet. In MD, where this happened, the kids talked about boyfriends and girlfriends from very young ages. We didn’t when I lived in NY. I don’t think it had anything to do with sex in the media or anything like that. I wasn’t really aware of much of that when I was so young, and what I was aware of I thought it was all for older kids.

The parents never should have let 6th graders go unchecked. Anything could have been happening.

In junior high I used to go to a performing arts camps for two weeks in the summer. One year the older kids did the thing where they hold the side of your neck or push on your chest and it makes you pass outs some people go into seizures. Where were the counselors? I did it, shocking actually, because I never did any drugs, I didn’t drink, I was not one to try something I perceived as wrong or dangerous. One girl kind of just said here just stand against the wall, and next I knew I was waking up. I had no idea how dangerous it could be.

I don’t mean parents should be constantly on top of kids, but checking at times is a good thing I think when they are in group’s like that. Especially of some of the kids are very young.