Western culture 101. Can you enlighten me?

This is an incredibly broad question, and hard to answer as I’m not terribly familiar with Vietnamese custom. I don’t have any real basis for comparison.

Agreed with @Seek. It varies differently from country to country and even from city to city.

We could narrow it down to, say, table manners.

That would at least give us somewhere to start.

@Seek Well… maybe that’s a good start.

My original idea is just to know what is acceptable and not acceptable in the areas jellies here live in.

Let’s just stick to table manner first and then maybe we can add more.

Don’t talk about race relations, or about other cultures.
Don’t talk about religion.
Don’t talk about politics.
Don’t talk about child rearing.
Don’t talk about gun rights.
Better you just shut yourself inside your room.

Now I’m Googling Vietnamese table manners.

Interesting thing this blogger writes: The hands-on-the-table thing. In American society, we’re taught from a young age not to put our elbows on the table. One keeps their hands to themselves unless they are actively eating or drinking. However this person says Vietnamese people keep both hands on the table at all times? Is this so?

@seek…
Same in Europe.

When a hand is under the table… Expect someone to ask what you’re doing with it.

Also… cut a piece and eat it, then cut another piece.

Cutting all and then eating… be regarded as unmannered, or an American.

(Unmannered American is a tautology when it comes to table manners, from a European perspective.) :-)

Cutting more than one or two bites at a time is for children. Only. Period.

Burping is not polite or a form of appreciation of the food.

Serve the ladies first.

Don’t take the last bit of a shared dish.

Oh!

NEVER add seasoning (salt, pepper, steak sauce, whatever) before tasting it. It’s so, so, rude.

And don’t shift your fork to your other hand after cutting. :-)

Don’t use the table cloth to wipe your mouth.

Put your napkin in your lap, not in your collar.

@Seek Vietnamese people keep both hands on the table at all times?

Yeah it’s true. No one in my family feel comfortable to keep our hands before eating.

NEVER add seasoning (salt, pepper, steak sauce, whatever) before tasting it. It’s so, so, rude.

My father will be too rude to live if this rule applies here ~

@whitenoise Don’t use the table cloth to wipe your mouth.

We don’t even have table cloth here :P

@whitenoise Haha, it’s fun watching Americans juggle their silverware.

Turn the fork over. Left hand. There you go! Not so hard, was it?

@Seek So the fork can only be used by the left hand?

Depends. If you’re actively using a knife….

You know what, this is easier viewed than explained.

Watch this

Jeez I’m learning just as much as @Mimishu1995 here!
When someone sneezes, people generally say “Bless you” or “Gesundheit”. When eating, people usually have an appetizer, such as a salad or a soup, before their main dish. After, they eat something sugary or sweet, called a dessert. Both of these customs are absurd to me.
Note that I added my opinion in the last sentence. That’s called “adding one’s two cents.”

One thing I thought of to directly answer the question is that it’s rude to go to someone’s house empty handed. You should bring either a food item, a drink item (i.e. wine, soda, beer), a small gift (“a hostess gift” like hand towels, a candle, soaps) unless it’s a party and then you’re bringing a gift. Just because you bring a food item doesn’t necessarily mean it’s expected to be served at the meal.

When you eat, the hand you’re not eating with is supposed to be in your lap. You’re not supposed to eat with your other hand next to your plate. Some people do and to me they look like primitives.

And don’t eat anything with your hands. This excludes informal atmospheres like eating pizza in a park. I was at a restaurant once and witnessed a lady eating a french fry with a fork and knife. Death by laughter.

We don’t generally wear pajamas in public. Walmart is an exception.

Walmart is an exception to civilised society in general.

Another thing is that I know some hosts and hostesses will ask guests if they have any dietary preferences, but it’s actually not an obligation on the part of the hostess. If you read etiquette books, they will tell you that you should not talk about your allergies or diseases, and if you have certain requirements and are not sure what will be served at a meal, you should eat something at home first.

You shouldn’t go to someone’s house and say you don’t like a certain food. “Have some cake.” “No thank you, I don’t like chocolate cake.” Should not be something that you say. Just say no thank you. Another option is take it, and push it around without eating it or with just eating a small amount (unless of course you are allergic).

I eat fries with my fork and knife, if the rest of my food is “fork food”. I mean, I’m not going to pick up greasy fries with my hands and then have my fork slipping all over the place when I’m trying to eat my cole slaw and grilled chicken.

Always remember to thank the hosts “Thank you so much for having us! We had a great time!” Be gracious and you may be invited back.

In America we eat with the TV on. It’s a rarity to find families that eat at a table together every night.

Don’t insult the food. If, by chance, the hostess or cook insults her own cooking, don’t agree with her. Say it’s wonderful. If you don’t like it, don’t eat it but don’t insult it.

“I should have put more flavoring in the sauce.” “Yeah, it is kind of bland.” Never talk like that. Just say “it tastes great to me!”

^ If you’re eating at my house, however, be honest. I actually want to improve my cooking, not perpetuate cardboard recipes.

To add to my little list of ideas to bring to someone’s house, I forgot flowers. Flowers are always a good thing.

@Seek: If you and I were good friends, I probably would. If it were the first time I was ever at your house or I didn’t know you very well, I’d be on “best behavior.”

I’m afraid to cook for other people because I know what I like, but I am afraid it’s not going to be what others like. I like spicy food and I like texture, but some people like bland and smooth LOL.

If you don’t like what I cook then there’s just more for me!

@jca “When you eat, the hand you’re not eating with is supposed to be in your lap.”

No-go in Germany, and I’m pretty sure most of Europe would agree. Which is why this question is soooo hard to answer even now :/

@longgone: Gotcha. That’s in the US.

You’re not supposed to make any slurping noises with your drink or your soup.

Chew with your mouth closed. If something is really intolerable, put your napkin to your mouth and unobtrusively put the food into the napkin. Never spit the food onto your plate or in your bare hand.

If you are visiting NYC, please encourage your group to avoid spanning the whole sidewalk, especially if you’re stopped or moving at look-at-that! speed.
The normal flow of pedestrians will appreciate that!

This may surprise you but even in western culture, there are thousands of sub cultures that don’t practice in the same manner as the “dominant” culture. For instance in the states alone, you could keep to yourself in New York and no one could give a damn, but you will absolutely say hi to someone in Sacramento, California. It’s just a matter of where you are.

I’ll probably come up with some more, but never, never, NEVER blow snot bombs in public. Not on the street, not into a trash can, and not in front of other people.

Never ask someone if they’ve gained weight or if they’re pregnant.

Flush the toilet after doing your business. Don’t leave any “gifts” in the toilet.

We don’t squat on our toilets. They’re elevated chairs that you sit on.

If someone is 5 feet behind you it’s polite to hold the door for them.

We used to raise our children to give up their seats for the elderly, injured, or pregnant. I’m seeing less and less of that, though.

Bring a gift to the host/hostess when attending a dinner or party. A bottle of wine, an extra dish, flowers.

Be sure the seat is down before sitting on the toilette.
Always leave the seat down where women live.
(Sometimes the seat gets left up by guys).

Ignore all the so called rules and do what you want.
If someone does not like it, they will tell you.

Now that food is covered should we move on to wearing shoes or talking them off when entering someones home?

Keeping the shoes on has never been a problem on the west coast of the United States.

First rule is: the laws of Germany
Second rule is: be nice to Mommy
Third rule is: don’t talk to commies
Fourth rule is: eat kosher salami

Zappa Addenda:

1. Watch out where the huskies go
2. Don’t you eat that yellow snow

No honour killings or stoning allowed. No bribing elected officials or police officers, or public servants. No smoking crack or drinking till one is in a drunken stupor while in office.

All right, fine
No eating thin crust (must be from NYC and thin crust or else it is false) pizza with a knife and fork and you can’t name your pet after a racial slur.
If anyone walks in my house with their shoes on, they’re not getting their feet back

There is a book called Kiss, Bow, or Shake Hands used as a text book actually. It is written for business professionals to learn some basic cultural expectations on etiquette in many different countries.

In America we are such a melting pot of many different people from many different places that some etiquette even varies from one part of the country to another.

Pretty much everyöne is expected to shake hands, both men and women, when meeting someone new, especially in a business setting, but in social settings also.

When greeting someone you know well, friend or relative it varies widely across the country. The Midwest tends to give a hug to friends they have not seen in a while. The northeast a kiss on one cheek. People who are Latin American descent no matter where they live in the US tend to do a kiss.

Someone above mentioned Americans switch their fork back after cutting, which is true that is the expected etiquette, but I don’t switch back half the time. The knife is expected to be used not just for cutting, but for helping to get food onto the fork as well. In very informal setting there might be only a fork used. In many Asian restaurants here they often don’t give a knife, just a fork (or chopsticks) and I always have to ask for a knife.

If walking in a single line on the street women walk ahead of men. We noticed in Japan the men walk ahead of the women. I assume there is a logical reason for it. When walking side by side it is more formal for the man to always walk on the street side, but very few men still do it. My husband still does a lot of the time though.

As far as removing shoes when you go over to someone’s house, I often just ask if they prefer I take my shoes off, especially if they have a pile of shoes at the door. Most Americans won’t insist on shoes off, but are fine if you want to take them off. My husband’s family used to think shoes off in the house was horrible and rude, but they have adjusted.

Someone mentioned giving up your seat for the elderly, pregnant, and that still is alive and well in many places in the US. I recently was on a bus in Savannah, and when 5 older people got on the bus, about 10 of us stood up immediately and some of us moved to the back or gave up our seat altogether so they could comfortably sit near the front.

In the south they use Ma’am and Sir when they address an adult, in the northeast they usually use Miss for women, if they say anything. It varies a little around the rest of the country.

We don’t use toothpicks for our teeth at the table. In fact, it is bad etiquette in public in general, but it isn’t very unusual for someone to be using one after they leave a restaurant, just looks bad to some people.

As far as eating with our hands, my rule is when at someone’s house, follow what the host does. At a restaurant certain foods I believe to be acceptable to eat with your hands. Sandwiches, hamburgers on a bun, NY style pizza, ribs, chicken wings, tacos, cup cakes, some shrimp dishes, and others I can’t think of right now, plus French fries were mentioned which I put in the finger food category, but you can eat it with a fork just like any of the foods. America has a whole category of foods called finger foods.

Don’t double dip! Don’t get your mouth germs into the dip, salsa, cocktail sauce. Either only dip once, or put some dip on your own plate.

Etiquette is changing a little regarding receiving gifts. The old school way was to send a thank you note through the regular mail if someone gave you a gift. Some people argue you can just say thank you in person, or with an email. For weddings people seem to still stick with sending a thank you through the mail.

I forgot that when you are done eating you rest your fork and knife in the 4:00 position on the plate. This is a signal for the waiter if you are in a restaurant that you are finished. A lot of waiters in inexpensive or moderate restaurants don’t know the signal though.

Also, proper etiquette is for a waiter to not give the check until the customer asks for it, but in inexpensive and even some moderate restaurants they bring over the check without you asking or ask you if you are ready for the check. Also, very busy lunch places often just bring over the check once they know you are done ordering.

@Michael_Huntington When we moved from NY to MD we were shocked to find almost everyone eating pizza with a fork and knife, regular NY style pizza.

^ That is sacrilige. You fold the goddamn pizza or you order a calzone like a normal person.

LOL. We really had a tough time with it at first. As I think about it, possibly we ate pizza with our hands in school though. I can’t remember clearly. I wish Auggie was here, she might remember. The pizza in school was rectangular, similar to sicilian in NYC. I think a lot of our school lunches were finger foods actually: tacos, pizza, hamburgers. That’s all I can remember.

Massive response:

@jca One thing I thought of to directly answer the question is that it’s rude to go to someone’s house empty handed. You should bring either a food item, a drink item (i.e. wine, soda, beer), a small gift (“a hostess gift” like hand towels, a candle, soaps) unless it’s a party and then you’re bringing a gift. Just because you bring a food item doesn’t necessarily mean it’s expected to be served at the meal.

Sounds like Hanoi to me :) We don’t have to do that in my area.

You’re not supposed to make any slurping noises with your drink or your soup.

Chew with your mouth closed. If something is really intolerable, put your napkin to your mouth and unobtrusively put the food into the napkin. Never spit the food onto your plate or in your bare hand.

Same here. Too bad that Dad and my brother never seem to take those rules. And that annoys Mom sometimes.

Always remember to thank the hosts “Thank you so much for having us! We had a great time!” Be gracious and you may be invited back.

Same here!

@dxs And don’t eat anything with your hands. This excludes informal atmospheres like eating pizza in a park.

Pizza is the only thing that we eat with hands here (well, aside from some Vietnamese specialty :p) The only places I can think of which allow people to eat exclusively with hands are Lao, Cambodia and India.

@GloPro We don’t generally wear pajamas in public.

I don’t know what to call it, but here we have a kind of clothes which can only be worn at home. In home condition, the clothes are pretty comfortable and convenient. Wearing them anywhere else and you will be regarded as impolite. I think I’ll settle to the name “pajamas” for them right now.

Walmart is an exception.

Wow! What is that place? I wonder if I can wear my “pajamas” there too.

In America we eat with the TV on.

My parents never allow us to turn on the TV while we eat. And everyone has to gather in the dining room to eat.

@Seek If you’re eating at my house, however, be honest. I actually want to improve my cooking, not perpetuate cardboard recipes.

That’s what Dad says when he cooks. And my house is the only place I can be honest.

@Kardamom Never ask someone if they’ve gained weight or if they’re pregnant.

Same here.

@JLeslie Pretty much everyöne is expected to shake hands, both men and women, when meeting someone new, especially in a business setting, but in social settings also.

Somehow I love to shake hands with foreigners :)

As far as removing shoes when you go over to someone’s house, I often just ask if they prefer I take my shoes off, especially if they have a pile of shoes at the door. Most Americans won’t insist on shoes off, but are fine if you want to take them off. My husband’s family used to think shoes off in the house was horrible and rude, but they have adjusted.

Hey! Taking shoes off is rude? It’s considered rude if you keep your shoes here.

We don’t use toothpicks for our teeth at the table. In fact, it is bad etiquette in public in general, but it isn’t very unusual for someone to be using one after they leave a restaurant, just looks bad to some people.

My Mom always asks for a toothpick after a meal :(

Etiquette is changing a little regarding receiving gifts. The old school way was to send a thank you note through the regular mail if someone gave you a gift. Some people argue you can just say thank you in person, or with an email. For weddings people seem to still stick with sending a thank you through the mail.

Everyone thanks in person here. Because not everyone is used to the internet and many think a thank you in person is more “sentimental”

@Mimishu1995 Leaving shoes on is not considered rude here by the average American, my husband’s family have only been in this country 15–20 years, so it is actually a leftover from their country (as I mentioned they are already adjusting) but some people prefer guests remove their shoes for practical reasons. Basically, to not track in dirt from outside. Some people, I would say not many, actually think about the germs on the bottom of “outside” shoes and don’t want them worn inside for that reason.

I wrote about the shoes and the toothpicks, because I know many Asian countries look at those things differently than the western world.

@JLeslie So, when can I use toothpicks in America?

Toothpicks are by the door so you can grab them on the way out. So I guess toothpicks are appropriate in the car. It’s rude to suck and pick your teeth at a table, although BBQ joints can be an exception. Everybody sits around picking meat from their teeth after good ribs.

I agree toothpick in the car, in the bathroom, or when you are home, but I don’t recommend driving with a toothpick in your mouth. My husband once started to do that and I lectured him. He dismissed me as annoying and worrying about everything that can go wrong and within a week there was a report on the TV about how someone had a toothpick stuck in their throat from driving with a toothpick. He still tells that story as a sign of proof that I am always right.~

How do you get a toothpick stuck in your throat no matter where you are? Mine stays firmly between my molars or fingers.

When I was a teen, a bunch of us were hanging out near my friend’s apartment. She was sitting on a car biting on a straw. There was some horsing around and the straw got pushed into her palate and made it bleed. She learned the hard way about biting straws.

@GloPro Just have the driver stop short, or something sudden happen and suck in a breath, and whatever is in your mouth can wind up in your throat. It’s why it is a bad idea to eat when you drive, but tell that to most Americans and they will just think you are silly. I almost never eat in my car, especially I try not to of I am alone. I mostly don’t eat in my car because I never have, not because I am paranoid of something going wrong, but it’s worth mentioning. It’s also a little distracting, less attention on the road.

So one should not drive and chew gum, either. When do I chew gum anymore? When do I brush my teeth or apply my makeup if not in the car? I’ll never be on time for anything!~

LOL.

Western culture: don’t bring or answer your phone at the dinner table. When you answer your phone in general, you should step out of the room as to not be rude to other people conversing. Who cares to hear your one sided conversation.
Typically, if you are with company you should not be talking on the phone.

I know many people do it, but ideally you should not be texting while in the company of others either. Especially at the table.

@GloPro Typically, if you are with company you should not be talking on the phone.

I used to meet an American teacher who taught at my school. We were having a conversation when suddenly her cell phone rang and she talked to it, still with my present. Can you explain?

She is rude. That’s your explanation. The only other thing I can think of is if the call was from the States, and if overseas you answer when you can. It’s pretty hard to connect overseas and everything line up perfectly.

@Mimishu1995: If you were having a chat in the hallway of the school, or her school office, it’s one thing. It’s ok. It’s acceptable. If she were visiting you at hour house, it’s rude.

@jca To tell the truth, we were at a cafe :p

OK. Maybe it was important. Maybe it was her kid or about her kid or about work. If she sat there and had a pleasant chat about “how are you doing?” then it’s rude.

Not sure what you’re driving at. Culture can vary just between states. I live in Tx., Louisiana, or at least the southern part, is like another country to me. Then you have Aridzonea, and Baja Texas (Oklahoma),