Should employees have to hide tattoos and remove gauges?

This was a discussion we had at dinner yesterday (me and my family). It made me check the OP just to see if by chance, one of my family members is on here as the OP. Someone brought up the conversation by talking about an article in the NY Times (advice column) about a receptionist’s supervisor who said that the company they work for frowns upon tattoos, piercings, etc. The receptionist had tattoos in obvious places The supervisor was wondering if it would be ok to talk to the person and tell them that they had no hope of getting promoted to “front desk receptionist” or elsewhere in company because of their tattoos.

We were debating whether this was ok or not. She would be helping the employee but might she be subject to a lawsuit?

In a word, YES.

The business does not exist for the employees. It exists for the customers, in the sense that the employee is there to serve the customer, so that the customer will buy things and thereby create revenue.

If the company owner or manager feels that the tattoos or hardware is not sending out the right impression of the company, thereby reducing sales, then it is within the company owner’s right to tell someone to cover these things up. Of course, the decision has consequences – the employee may leave. And it also depends on clientele – if you are trying to sell to a 20–30 year old steampunk demographic, then hardware may be perfectly appropriate.

Put it this way – one’s tattoos and ones piercings say a lot about the decisions that the person has made. In other words, the are a window into that person’s mind and self image.

If I were in the market to make an investment, buy a house, buy a car, make a major purchase, I’m much more likely to believe and trust someone who has not adorned themselves with pieces of hardware, than one who has. Why? The impression of seriousness.

Now I am sure people are going to tell me I am closed minded and that there are beautiful tattoos – which there are, no doubt.

But my personal taste does not appreciate them. And if I as a consumer am making purchasing decisions (as the OP implies) I’m going to buy from the person whose tastes are less offensive to me. Regardless of the employee’s “autonomy”.

@elbanditoroso Then why not hire someone else?

And if they covered the piercing with a bandaid do you still not know it’s there? You would buy your car from someone with a bandaid on their nose versus without? That bandaid will make or break your decision?

@GloPro – a bandaid on the nose would not. Eyelid piercings, nose rings, studs down the arm… would.

As to the question: why not hire someone else? Good question. I can’t put myself in the position of a hypothetical employer. Maybe the employer didn’t realize how off-putting the decorated person would be to his customer base?

It is only censorship if the government does it.

The employee does not have to work there if they don’t like company policy.

In the case you describe, I would suggest they check out Whole Foods if one is nearby.
My Whole Foods store not only does not forbid the things you describe, they almost seem to be a pre requisite.

It depends on the business. I expect to see tats on auto mechanics. I do not expect to see them on necks of Microsoft employees. But since I’m not hiring I defer to the ones doing so.

@elbanditoroso But again, I ask for deeper explanation of your psychology. You just stated a nose ring would keep you from purchasing. But a bandaid covering a nose ring would not? You would buy from someone covering the item of your distaste if you didn’t have to look at it?

@josie I understand the right to work concept. I’m more interested in the angle of asking employees to cover their piercing/tattoo and the effectiveness of doing so. Do you find the floppy earlobe more acceptable or normal than the artistic gauge? Does taking that piercing out make or break your decision to buy?

@Aster I know several men in suits you would be shocked to see shirtless. <drooling>

Their company, their customers, their rules, the employee’s responsibility to comply or to go work elsewhere.

@Pachy Right, obviously. But I’m curious as to the customer’s reaction. Does it really matter to you to see a nose stud? Or do you find the bandaid more distracting? Does it affect your purchase, and why?

No. In most cases, why should physical appearance override one’s personality and skill? That person could be completely capable of the job but turned down because the employer is judging his/her physical appearance. If someone has a problem with tattoos/piercings then that’s their own problem, not the person with the body art.

@elbanditoroso Tattoos speak of a person’s personality, but not always in a negative way. I see people at businesses whose “personal tastes” I don’t care for. It doesn’t stop me from approaching them at their job because personal tastes are irrelevant. It’s not my place to judge them and I’m not looking for them to impress me with their appearance, either.

My reaction to seeing someone with covered up tattoos and removed piercings or gauges is that their employer is a jerk like other people who are offended by trivial things such as body art. I know it’s their decision to work there, but still, those rules don’t make sense to me.

If it will negatively impact the business then yes. Having a dress code is reasonable and tattoos and gauges are part of dress code. I personally really do not want to see gauges in people’s ears, or lips, tongues, or eyebrows that are pierced.

I tell young people all the time if you are going to tattoo, do it on a place easily covered by clothing.

@dxs It is not necessarily the employer is judging the person’s skills, it can be the employer is worried about how comfortable customers will be if the employee is going to work with the public.

I wouldn’t hire someone with some of those things because I don’t want to see it. I don’t judge the skill of the person though. I might judge their judgement in not realizing their choices might affect their job opportunities.

I think employees should realize that they may be limiting their job opportunities when they get things like gauges, piercings and tattoos in places that are not cover-uppable. If I had that, I would realize that I am possibly limiting my prospects to certain types of jobs and industries. I think it’s no different then if I wanted to express my personality by dressing in a certain way. I am free to dress how I want when I am not at work. However, when on the employer’s dime, I have to look how the employer wants. If I don’t like that, I am free to get a job someplace where my clothing and appearance is of no concern.

Let me preface my comments with the fact that I had a tattoo before it was cool. It was hidden discretely so it would only be seen if I wanted it to be seen. It was in the early 80’s when I was in my early 20’s.
There was a time that I wouldn’t hire a person if I could see a tattoo during the interview. My rational was that it spoke to their judgment and most of the people I was hiring had access to keys to many people’s homes and sometimes had to make decisions that could cost thousands of dollars if they were wrong.
Times have really changed though! While ear gauges would probably still be a deterrent when hiring, minor tattoos probably wouldn’t be a deal breaker at all. If someone had ear gauges though, they would have to impress the heck out of me to get hired in they public jobs I hire for.
The truth is, I am no longer responsible for the front line hiring so I have to rely on others to make wise decisions. The results are in the numbers and if they can produce the numbers with someone with a tatted face and clanking vaginal piercings I really don’t care. If it doesn’t hurt my business or endanger my customers or other employees live and let live but I sure am glad I don’t eat fast food anymore.

Although I don’t usually try to guide answers, I am more looking for your reaction as the customer to seeing piercings versus bandaids. To seeing tattoos versus a cover sleeve or wrap.

Let’s assume everyone understands the right to work, and the right to have a dress code. Let’s assume the kid has the job and that isn’t an issue.

As the customer, how do you feel about seeing the tattoo or piercing versus seeing the coverup, and does seeing either one over the other impact your buying decisions?

I guess I didn’t word my question right. I’m really interested in the customer perspective more than employer, employee. I appreciate all answers, though!

@Judi clanking vaginal piercings, hahaha!

Since this is in social, will tell you about a young man I met the other day. He and his girlfriend (my daughters childhood best friend) had recently gotten out of jail and completed a recovery program for their meth addiction.
This guy had a tattoo on his FACE that said “White Trash.” He can cover it with a hat, but who the heck will ever hire him with that shit on his face? He will have to be working at a job that interviews outside so he won’t have to take his hat off during the interview.

No, it’s an absurd notion. Most of my professional colleagues have tattoos and/or piercings, and many of them in obvious places. These are scientists and writers – so why should having a tattoo be seen as a bad thing in a receptionist? Tattoos obviously have no bearing on a person’s intelligence or professionalism.

Actually tattoos very much have a bearing on a person’s intelligence and professionalism.
As a customer, I am put off by tattooed persons serving me my food or other items.
Most tattoos scream out jailbird, like @Judi‘s friend’s white trash tat.
They are also an indication of the tatted individual’s low self-esteem.

After reading @JLeslie ‘s comment I suddenly got a vision of a tattooed on bikini. I wonder if anyone has ever done that? Totally tatted everywhere a bikini would cover. no where else.

When I see documentaries about jail and inmates, and I see them with tattoos all over their heads, my first thought is always how much they are limiting their job prospects when they get released from jail.

@GloPro As a customer as long as they are well spoken and competent I don’t care in general. If the tattooing was very extreme, or the gauges were very large, then I might be bothered, but not enough to affect whether I purchase something or not.

The greeting, the first impression of how they treat me when I walk in the store is extremely important. If they are chewing gum, texting on their phone, don’t bother at least to smile at me and say hello, or don’t show any effort to be service oriented, those things matter the most, and almost matter more if they have tattoos and gauges and are young.

The image of the store might matter. Neiman Marcus is different than Harley Davidson obviously. Someone working in the courthouse who deals with the public probably can’t have any tats showing. I know a friend of mine who is a cop can’t wear the short sleeve uniform and in the summer it sucks.

@Judi It wouldn’t surprise me. During bike week in Wisconsin some of the women cover their nipples with body paint I think so they can go topless. Or, maybe they have to wear pasties and add paint over top? I know there is some sort of nipple rule,

I really hope ear gauges go out of style. I think they are awful.

@jca Right? as if it weren’t hard enough with a criminal record!

@JLeslie: And when and if gauges do go out of style, will people need plastic surgery to close up those holes? Or will they just have big hanging holes in their lobes?

@jca If the holes have been there a while and are big enough surgery will be the only option. Or, at minimum sewing the holes up. I have a second hole in my left ear and I use it about once every 5 years and it is always perfectly open like I use it every day. It’s a teeny weeny regular ear piercing in my earlobe.

I would do everything to prevent my child from having gauges in her ear. I know parents sometimes lose those battles.

I would really want my kid to find their way to their career interests before marking up their bodies permanently. You know me, I believe in a little realistic conforming. My husband is always willing to cut his hair for a job if he has it long. Both of us believe in following dress codes. Clothing, hair, nails, all of it.

the Rules have certainly changed but anything you do in the way of body art or piercings will only have a limiting affect. Yes there may be many places that find it completely acceptable but some will not. I doubt that there will ever be many places that it is required. Tattoos have been the perview of Jail inmates and military. you got a tattoo if you thought you were a hard guy or a rebel. Not surprisingly people don’t want hard guys or rebels as the face of their business. Even if only 10% of the customers think that way, why would I want to put 10% of my business at risk?

Everyone wants to be a non-conformist or a rebel. Just remember that you limit you opportunities when you do so.

PS what the hell are gauges?

@Jaxk: Gauges are those things that look like plugs for pierced ears. They get progressively larger and larger (like something worn in tribes).

@JLeslie That’s why I said “If someone has a problem with tattoos/piercings then that’s their own problem, not the person with the body art.” Someone refers to the customer as well. Having them hide it doesn’t solve the problem of prejudice. @Jaxk I don’t have any tattoos or piercings myself, but I know people who do and based on them, I doubt it carries the same effect as it used to.

@Jaxk “Tattoos have been the perview of Jail inmates and military. you got a tattoo if you thought you were a hard guy or a rebel.”

This is a very outdated attitude. People don’t react this way to tattoos anymore, unless they’re well above a certain age. At least where I live, anyway.

@dappled_leaves: Even if this is the attitude of, let’s say, 50% of people over 40, why would an employer want to put their business at risk (which are the words of @Jaxk)? Especially with the baby boom, there are a huge chunk of people in that age category.

I don’t find any of these professionals with tattoos to be a threat or look like former prisoners.

@jca Would you rather do business with a company that tiptoes around its customers’ outdated social values, or with a company that treats all of its employees as living, creative individuals with control over their own bodies? You may as well ask whether a company should employ gay people, since elderly customers might disapprove.

If I find that an establishment fires people for getting tattoos, they will lose my business. They clearly can’t please everyone.

@dappled_leaves

I would agree with agree you but still wouldn’t want to jeopardize those customers above a certain age. I have no issue with a tat on your ass but if its in my face (or on yours) I do. Maybe the younger generation has different mores on all this but most businesses deal with multiple generations.

Per5sonally, if Einstein wanted to come work for me, he’d have to comb his hair.

@GloPro, customers can easily (if sometimes irrationally) be put off by many things, and nowadays, business is too competitive for employers to take chances losing them. Speaking for myself—and admittedly, I’m of an older generation—I consider piercings and tattoos, as well as band aids covering them, distracting and discomfiting.

@dappled_leaves: I don’t agree with @Jaxk on everything, but I do in this case.

I also don’t feel that tattoos, piercings and gauges are the same as someone’s sexual orientation.

Considering the brutal nature of today’s job market and overly picky employers these people should consider it to be a blessing they even got hired at all, If the employer was nice enough to give you the option of hiding your self-mutilations and excessive body art in order to keep your job, I’m not too sure I’d be complaining here.

I’ve seen employers do more extreme things than this. Any decent employer would go over these issues with you before hiring you. How is the alternative of not hiring such people a better option?

I don’t see how displeasing customers is a valid argument to this. There may be a culturally normative physical appearance, but nobody should ever be required to be a part of it. Tattoos and body piercings are harmless. Anything can become unsightly for a customer if they’re so fixated on one’s appearance. Someone can find body art attractive just as much as someone can find it repulsive.

@dxs Exactly.

@jca “I also don’t feel that tattoos, piercings and gauges are the same as someone’s sexual orientation.”

Good heavens. I didn’t say anything like that. I was implying that the elderly might disapprove of both. That in no way equates them.

On a personal level:

I don’t mind seeing a few facial piercings, or arm tattoos.

It’s when they look like they fell into a silverware drawer or when they’re advertising their personal beliefs that I take issue.

But where to draw the line? I don’t know. I guess when it affects their productivity. If someone is a receptionist but their multiple tongue and lip piercings make them hard to understand over the phone, they need to find a new job. When someone is applying for a customer service position with racist, sexist, or otherwise discriminatory tattoos, they shouldn’t be surprised when they are not hired.

Maybe it’s where I live, but every type of business I know about allows body modifications. IT and software companies are notoriously casual. I work in a law firm where the attorneys sport their tattoos and so do I.

I think this generational and geographical.

There is no business or service that I would not patronize if their employees were able to keep their body modifications exposed. Actually, if a company had people put band aids and weird sleeves on I would not patronize that place.

Body mods have nothing to do with the ability to perform one’s job.

@dxs I am not sure I understand what your wrote. The comfort of the customer does matter. It is a reality of business. You are right that whether someone has a tattoo or not has nothing to do with whether the person is capable of doing a job, but it might affect their “ability” to do the job effectively if customers are not responding to them well.

Some jobs have rules about how large a tattoo can be, some want none showing, some probably don’t care one way or the other. If a person wants to take a risk and limit themselves because of tattoos have at it, but they better go ahead and realize they are limiting themselves possibly, depending on the industry they work in.

Tattoos and piercings are not like race, religion, and ethnicity; tattoos really are a choice, and a choice that people know might not be comfortable to some other people. Many jobs have dress code rules, it’s a reality, people have to live in realty. Work for Chanel and they will require hair pulled back or short and nails not longer than a certain length. Work for Disney and there are lots of rules too. Many workplaces have dress codes that extend to jewelry and tats.

@tinyfaery Can you have all those things showing in a courtroom where you live? I’m talking about the lawyers and other people working in the courthouse.

@JLeslie I meant that if the customer has a problem with tattoos or piercings, then it’s the customer’s personal flaw. There are obviously extremes for everything, like what @Seek pointed out. Realistically it might be more beneficial for a business to hide body art in this current culture of conformity and absurd expectations. But that still doesn’t mean it should be that way.

Yes body art is a choice, but it’s not a detrimental choice and people don’t deserve to get heat for it. For instance, I went to a family member’s house a month ago and my hair was down to my shoulders. They hated it and thought I should cut it since I’m a guy. I don’t think I deserve to be told that I don’t look right for something as trivial as my hair length. And don’t get me started on gender norms. So, what if I were working and they were my customers. What would I have to do, cut it wear a wig to appease the judgmental crowd? Tattoos and piercings can be viewed in the same way. I don’t like the idea of supporting a mentality that I view as wrong.

It’s totally at the discretion of the employer. If you don’t like the dress code, quit the job.

@marinelife But how do you feel about it as the customer? Would you rather see a piercing or a bandaid over their eyebrow if those were the only two options, and would the piercing have any impact on your patronage?

If food is involved, I definitely don’t want to see bandaids.

@Seek Exactly! That’s kind of my whole point. If exposed tattoos and piercings are banned in the dress code, why hire someone to begin with?

The cover ups are silly. The flappy earlobes are distracting. I don’t mind pierced dimples, eyebrows, or noses. I don’t even mind a couple of dermal piercings on the collarbone or back of the neck. I do mind seeing a distracting hole in your face or a bandaid. I’m not quite sure what the boss is thinking when he/she thinks that would look better than the piercing.

@dxs Your are being idealistic and unrealistic. If it is the customer’s problem is also the problem of the business. You can’t alienate your clientelle. If you really want to force tattooed people on the public you will have to make them a protected class. Or, you have to wait for the older people who are uncomfortable to die off. I hope not to be dead for the next 40 years. Mind you, my husband races cars and we are also around motor cycle people and plenty of people who commonly sport tattoos. Not to stereotype, but some places tattoos are more commonplace. I still don’t want to see someone with extensive tattoos doing my PAP smear. I also don’t particularly like when a female GYN has a long flowing hairstyle coiffed perfectly and glam make-up.

If my doc had well done three quarter tattoo sleeves I’d hit on him. That’s just me.

@JLeslie said it well.

As the customer, if I don’t feel good about your company because you have hired people with body jewelry where I can see it, I’m not going to buy from you. I don’t give a flying fuck about the personal autonomy of the employee. That’s simply not my problem.

And for those of who who wrote – “if a customer doesn’t like body art, that’s the customer’s problem” – all I can say is: totally naive on your part. If the owner/manager is content with driving customers away because the his employees’ appearance, then good for him. But most employers like to do things to keep customers.

Awww yeah. Another tattoo thread on Fluther

As a customer, I don’t care. I might have to stop myself from staring if a waiter had his face buried beneath metal, but I wouldn’t care as long as food, hygiene and attitude are fine.

I wouldn’t mind the cover-ups because, knowing me, I probably wouldn’t realise what it is they’re covering.

I’m not an employer! When I was answering this question, I was speaking of what I thought what employers should do based on my morals and not on marketing. Yes it probably is idealistic because I can’t mould society into my liking, not to mention the fact that it’s a “should” question.
“Should employees have to hide tattoos and remove gauges?” Absolutely not. I don’t like the idea of judging people on personal appearance, it’s against my morality.
“Should employees have to hide tattoos and remove gauges to benefit the company in today’s society?” Well, I’m sitting here complaining about how people prejudice others on what’s needled into their body so I guess to appease the majority crowd: yes.

@dxs I am pretty sure I can speak for the crowd, no one thought you were an employer.

I’ve seen court clerks with gauges and tattoos. The attorneys must dress for the Court. I still think it’s generational. In 20 years no one will care.

^^^ In 20 years the judges will be tatted and sporting huge gauged ear lobe holes, nose rings and nipple rings (both sexes).

Remember “My Cousin Vinny” when he gets in trouble for wearing a leather jacket to court?

61% of human resource managers said that tattoos would hurt an applicant’s chances of getting a job. That percentage is up from previous survey. Read article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/fashion/tattoos-peek-out-at-offices-but-only-at-some.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%253Ar&_r=0

I don’t think anyone remembers “My Cousin Vinny.” It was 22 years ago!

@dappled_leaves: Ok. Read the article I linked. It’s significant and it’s from a reliable source.

@dappled_leaves I disagree. It’s one of Joe Pesci’s most well known movies in the 90’s along with Goodfellas, Casino, Home Alone, and JFK. I’d be more surprised if anyone remembers The Super.

@dappled_leaves

Hey, because of that movie, I know the correct ignition timing for a ‘64 Chevy Bel-Air is four degrees before top-dead-center.

Fucking love Marisa Tomei.

2 Yutes.

And a can of tuna fish

I remember the Super! That was a pretty good Pesci movie too, @Michael_Huntington.
What would surprise me is if anyone remembers a movie Joe did called With Honors?!!?

Personally I find cover-ups more distracting than tattoos or piercings. And if I’m being served food I don’t want to have to wonder if that band-aid near your lip is covering a piercing or a herpes sore.

http://www.fluther.com/172955/in-what-jobs-are-tattoos-and-piercings-inappropriate-appropriate-tolerated/

Other recent tattoo question.

@JLeslie It may seem obvious to you, but I felt the need to say that because my opinion was being called naïve since it was interpreted to be based on what benefits an employer and their company. That wasn’t what I intended.

I thought about this more and I think what teens and twenty year olds need to remember is if they had gotten a tattoo at age 4 likely would have been of Barney the purple dinasour. Putting something permanent on your body whether it be gauges or tattoos that represent your moment in time means there is a good chance in twenty years you might not be very keen on having it. Or, you might still love it, but not want it there for the whole world to see. Trends change, your own desires change, and your own taste changes over time. A 4 year old likes Barney, an 18 year old might like something with sexual overtones, or might want something cute.

When you are first getting into the job market, for the most part people older than you are hiring you, so you need to take that into consideration. Conforming matters more when you have not established your talents yet. Once you have a resume, and people seek your specific skills, then how you look sometimes becomes less important. Let’s say the top neurosurgeon has a lot of tattoos. Who cares if he has tattoos if he is going to save your life? But, when he is 26 and just out of his residency, he has not already established himself as a top neurosurgeon, so the impression he makes on people will probably matter for his business. Having extensive tattoos is not associated with the line of business he is in.

I can understand why pushing the envelope can be important. The more people push, the more things will change, and that often is a good thing. People become used to seeing tattoos and over time maybe no one will care either way about the tattoos.

@dxs My point was employer do think what the customer thinks matters, and you were trying to say it doesn’t, so it would have been hard for me to imagine you were and owner or a manager in a business that deal with the public face to face.