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XOIIO's avatar

Do you think this is unethical? (read more)

Asked by XOIIO (18328points) June 29th, 2014

Hello all, so, I was curious what you guys think.

I had someone give me a 64gb micro SD XC card from Lexar that needed data recovered, after a lot, too much, work and attempts to recover data, the only explanation is that it was dead, so the guy said he would come pick it up. He made two appointments to come and never did, and it’s been a month and a half now and no word, I’m guessing that he does not want it, or want to pay for the work I did.

Anyways, I finally had an idea, so I contacted Lexar, saying that I have a card that is defective, which I received as a gift, exchanged a bit of info like the camera I used (which I actually have and tried to see if the card was working), they asked for the date of purchase, I said I don’t know exactly but probably within a year (according to what the guy said, that should be correct).

Anyways, I now have an RMA number and am shipping it off for replacement today.

So I’m curious, do you think this is unethical? Yes, I lied a bit, however, it is a massive company, their product did die, It will barely cost them anything, and I will at least get something out of this instead of having wasted all that time.

I don’t really see a problem with it, and I am happy to be getting a nice SD card though my camera can only take up to 32gb lol, I am a person who does see this sort of thing as “the ends justify the means”

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22 Answers

jca's avatar

Ethically, yes, unethical. It involved a lie and deception.

Would I have done the same thing if I thought of it? Probably. I would justify it in my mind as I recouped some of my time (because time = money) that I spent on this guy’s issue for which he did not pay me.

Mimishu1995's avatar

I agree with @jca. You may get away with it, but that’s not so ethical.

Speaking of lying, I wonder what happens if one day that guy suddenly shows up and ask you about the card…

XOIIO's avatar

@Mimishu1995 I could just give it to him, but after this much time and not a word back after I contacted him asking when he wants to get it, I doubt he’s coming back. Probably not worth the gas anyways lol

dappled_leaves's avatar

The size of the company is irrelevant. You are stealing.

Mimishu1995's avatar

@XOIIO It’s just a speculation because you can’t tell what happens to the guy since you can’t contact him. Anything can happen.

Though I think it’s unethical, I bet I would have done the exactly same thing if I had been in your shoes :D

jca's avatar

On the unlikely chance he calls or shows up to get his card back, you’ll have to tell another lie to him. “I’m here for my card.” “Oh, I threw it out. I didn’t think you wanted it any more” or something like that.

XOIIO's avatar

@Mimishu1995 I did contact him several times after he did not show up twice, and he never replied.

jca's avatar

@XOIIO: It might be wrong to do, but I would justify it by the time I spent and the guy not getting back to me and not showing up. I wouldn’t feel bad about it.

Blackberry's avatar

It’s just my opinion obviously, but if he actually did come back and it’s an easy fix to give the new one to him then I don’t see it as a big deal.

For such a small item it really doesn’t seem bad.

XOIIO's avatar

@Blackberry Yeah I mean, if he does come back, since I don’t think I have anything that can use a 64gb card yet, I would just tell him I got it RMA’d, charge for the work and postage and give it back.

CWOTUS's avatar

If you were doing the swap out “as an agent of the owner”, with his implied or explicit consent, and with the intent to present it to him as part of your service, then I would say that it is not unethical. (I would still have quibbles with your representation of “yourself” as the purchaser, owner or gift recipient, but the supplier probably won’t care so much – as long as no one comes forth later who claims to be the owner. Since the defective item is to be returned, then at least they won’t have to deal with this thing being used for multiple replacements.)

Beyond that, your ground is not so firm when you represent as “I spent all this time and effort to fix the thing” and “I tried with due diligence to contact the original owner”, since those are completely subjective to you – no one but you knows the effort that you put into attempts to resolve the original problem or to contact the owner, and whether all of that is fair as your side of an exchange to take property that still belongs to someone else. For that matter, we don’t know the circumstances behind the owner’s failure to contact you again.

canidmajor's avatar

When you contacted him did you tell him of your plan to send his card with his data (recoverable or not is not the issue) to a third party? Remember, it was not just a card, it was a card with data. It is his choice to decide if the data on that card should be passed on or destroyed and how. Do you know that he wasn’t perhaps in an accident or taken ill? Or had a family emergency of some kind?
I think you maybe didn’t think this through, and as a result behaved unethically.

XOIIO's avatar

@CWOTUS I texted him three times, after setting up the last appointment, and he did not reply at all. Who knows, maybe he got in a car wreck or something, but I’m thinking it’s just not worth his time or he didn’t want to pay for the work.

hearkat's avatar

Perhaps you could contact the owner of the card and inform him that you’ve arranged the exchange for him to get a replacement card. That might spur them to come in, at which time they’d have to pay for your services in order to retrieve the card.

If they don’t come in after 2 weeks, leave another message and inform them that if they don’t come in within 6 weeks, they’ll have forfeited the card. Do some web searching and see if you can find an email address or postal address to contact him, and try calling the phone rather than just texting.

For future reference, charge customers a proportionate pre-payment, and have them sign a form agreeing to pay for _ hours of your your service, even though they are aware that you can not guarantee a completely satisfactory outcome. After the agreed-upon number of hours, contact them to give an update and get permission to continue, since it will incur additional cost for them – get this in writing or via email. Also include a clause that any property left with you for over 2 months becomes property of your business. Make the print large enough to read, explain these policies verbally before they sign, and make sure the customer gets a copy.

XOIIO's avatar

@hearkat Unfortunately where I live you can’t really say that if property is left with you for x period it becomes yours, I would have made up a form quite some time ago if I could. Still want to get around to making one up though.

hearkat's avatar

@XOIIO – Could you tell us where you live, so we might figure out what other options you have that are more relevant to your specific scenario?

XOIIO's avatar

@hearkat Saskatchewan, Canada.

hearkat's avatar

OK… any Canadian business lawyers in the Collective?

dappled_leaves's avatar

@XOIIO “Unfortunately where I live you can’t really say that if property is left with you for x period it becomes yours”

Didn’t you just answer your own question here?

CWOTUS's avatar

Whether you have acted unethically or not (assuming that you haven’t done something that is actually illegal), your business practices leave you open to such charges.

As a result of this incident, I would advise that you develop some sort of standard Service Agreement Policy (however you want to title it), covering exactly this type of scenario. List the issues that can occur, including “client refuses to pay for work performed”; “client abandons property”; “client remains incommunicado for reasons unknown”; “client expires without fulfilling the contract”; etc.

After you have the list of possible negative outcomes, develop a policy to handle each outcome. You may need to review with an attorney – which you should be doing from time to time anyway if you’re serious about your business – to determine whether your intended policy violates any bright lines of legality or standard business ethics. (An experienced, competent and efficient business attorney may already have a template that you can work from.)

Your agreement should also consider the handling / backup / disposal / destruction of client data, per @canidmajor‘s excellent observation. The data on most devices these days is worth far more to clients, often subjectively but sometimes also in terms of hard cash, than the device itself.

Once you have the wording worked out, then you can make your Service Agreement Policy part of a standard contract, possibly as an initialed attachment that each client is required to “read and agree” prior to work being performed. That way, the next time this or something like it occurs, you’ll already have a policy in place that you have reasonable assurance of being proper, and you will already have had a signed prior agreement from the client. No issue; no further questions.

2davidc8's avatar

@XOIIO If you needed to ask, then I think that in your heart you knew it was unethical. Don’t ask for justification from others.
@CWOTUS and @canidmajor raise some important legal issues. Just because you couldn’t recover the data doesn’t mean nobody else can. You could potentially be liable.
And @CWOTUS has some excellent suggestions going forward.

Stinley's avatar

I agree with @hearkat that you should tell the client that you are shipping the card off for replacement and give them the chance to respond before you do. That way you are covered if he does turn up eventually. Then you can use the card as if it were your own but keep in mind that this guy might claim it back some day.

Then do what the others suggest and stop this situation from arising again by getting a contract or agreement for clients to sign.

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