Feminists: What side of the fence are you on? It's ok to express sexuality, but it's not ok to be objectified. Please explain?

It’s not that hard to discern that there is no fence.
Being in touch with your sexuality is not the same thing as being treated as an object, with all the potentially harmful behaviors that can evolve from extreme objectification. Violence comes to mind, harmful stereotypes, etc.

We want to be sexual and be treated like human beings. Uhduhhh.

Just kidding! You’ve confounded me with logic and the Socratic method. Suddenly feminism goes up in a puff of smoke, collapsing on its own contradictions. Thank you for showing us the light.

I’m so sorry I didn’t add the context! Sorry I’m a wreck on social media I usually have like 14 windows open at a time.

Ok so what is the difference of a woman stripped down in a music video shaking her goods willingly obviously on her own free will vs a rapper vocalizing he likes to see women stripped down shaking their goods?

When does it actually become objectifying?

I heard a girl say it’s disgusting that men objectify/exploit women, yet it’s empowering for a woman to not have to care about how they dress or express their sexuality

Basically, why is it ok to be a model and strip down for a living yet there shouldn’t be a primal male reaction? Are we saying we could have those primal thoughts, as long as we don’t talk about it out loud? To me it’s all a game of seduction anyhow (in the fashion/modeling realm that is)

@Coloma Wow the latter of your statement never came to mind…

So I wonder is objectifying sort of a disorder? Like if a persons brain automatically objectifies another, is that a disorder? Or what would that be best described as…

I think it’s difficult to not wind up an object when men tend to be visual creatures.

I think for many people feeling sexy makes us feel alive, we just want to be treated with respect and we want to feel safe and we want our looks not to determine how we are treated and valued. If a man is gorgeous and sexy do people make assumptions about his intelligence or feel entitied to grab his ass or worse?

IT’s different for all women. Some love the power & money (think Miley) others hate being objectified, we want respect.

First you love and respect the person for who they are. Then you let them be as sexual as they want. That’s pretty amazing when it happens. But they get to decide, not me.

Funny the other day I was joking with my boyfriend. I asked him ” please odjectify me”. I think some feminist draw from their own insercurities to place the harsh opinions on sexual sexy woman. Some dont. I think female power is stronger in the understanding of one owns sexuality. This is different than girls being slutty and acting easy. Thats just sad. Thats not owning the power of their sexuality. If you love yourself and know yourself, hell, who wouldnt want to be objectified once in a while? We`re only animals.

There are women that are so afraid of men, that they can’t handle it when men behave as men. Fuck them. Most women truly like men in their natural state and enjoy them. Those are the ones that are healthy. Ignore the rest, they are whiners afraid to live life and are a never ending source of grief for the men who buy into their bullshit.

@Espiritus_Corvus Which man behaviors are you specifically talking about?

@JLeslie
I’m talking about Masculinity in it’s healthiest form.

That is what these unhealthy women are afraid of, whether due to wome trauma in their past done to them by some amateur or sociopath, or simply because masculinity is strange to them, foreign. They want men altered from their natural state of masculinity and this confuses men, especially young men still in their formative years. What you often end up with are men that are sick, afraid to be themselves and this comes out in a spectrum of neuroses, from naked aggression all the way to the other end as passive aggression and everything that is sick in between—these are not the healthy characteristics of masculinity, these are pathological charactersistics, but many women claim this is the male‘s natural state and many men buy into that.

Christ, there was a question here a few months ago by some poor sonovabitch who wanted to know why it was wrong to look at women in public, women he found attractive. And he wasn’t talking about leering, or jeering or cat-calling. He was talking about admiration. The poor bastard was afraid to look at women, afraid to make eye contact, afraid that he would be taken as a perv. He didn’t want to be accused of Objectifying. Jesus Christ!

When men buy this bullshit that their natural masculinity is wrong, that it is a bad thing, they themselves become afraid to be in touch with it, and it manifests itself in all the sick, awful things you see on the news every night. They cheat themselves out of a good life, and the women who want to love them are cheated as well. That’s what I’m talking about.

Feminists are on the side of telling others, women as well as men, what to do and think.

Very well written EC.

GA.

@pleiades OK, serious answer, the difference is that in the one scenario, it’s the woman’s choice. Although, I’d argue that in music videos, even if it’s her own music video, women still have to be sexy for the most part. And even if their image/ video/ concert isn’t overtly sexual, the woman still has to be hot. There are plenty of talented, unattractive men who made it big… only a handful of examples for women. But that’s an argument for another day.

I think you’re mixing up objectification of women with having sexual thoughts about women. “Objectification is literally, women being treated as objects or accessories. (Another example, NSFW) This most often happens in our media.

What I’m describing here is women’s bodies / body parts being treated as a commodity, for consumption or enjoyment by the general public. Or in daily life, reducing a woman to her body or a body part. (Catcalling is a good example from everyday life. Saying “nice tits” to a strange woman in public is objectifying. On the other hand, sometimes guys on the street will smile and say something like, “hello, beautiful!” That’s very different. Or if you’re involved with a woman, giving her a genuine compliment on her body- again, not objectifying. Like if a guy says “I love your breasts” after he’s already seen them, it’s sexual but he probably still sees you as a person.)

When objectification happens (NSFW), in the media, women’s bodies are treated like props or accessories. The women in these examples this aren’t portrayed as having a personality or perspective of their own. The reason it’s called objectification is that when that happens, the audience doesn’t see them as people. The audience is led to see her as an object.

How often have you seen a music video with a fully clothed guy and a bunch of hot dancers in bikinis? It happens so often that it’s basically background noise. Do you ever think about those womens’ thoughts or opinions? You’re not meant to. They’re only there to show how cool the main guy is.

If a woman does this in her own video, maybe it’s still not great. But at least she is being sexy from her own perspective, if that makes sense. She’s making eye contact with the camera, her personality is in it, you perceive her as a person.

It actually is empowering for women to dress and express their sexuality- not because it is sexy per se, but if it is her choice. Both modesty and sexiness have been used to limit women’s choices before. In some cultures, a woman is expected to dress modestly so that men will not see her body. That is a form of control. In western media, women are expected to be sexy because adding an attractive female body gets people to watch, and that brings in money. And then you have in betweens like daily American life, where women are criticized for being prudish and slutty. In all of these instances, other people are telling women how to act and trying to control our sexuality. So choosing what we wear (how the world sees us), whether sexy or not, is a refreshing change.

@Haleth Naw I’m not too sure I’m mixing anything up.. For me, @jungle_girl Hit’s the nail right on the head because I’m thinking of her examples and how it can apply to men (Yes men are objectified, but it’s so normal we just end up calling guys these guys meatheads)

:P

Anywho I thought your answer was so great it spawned another question.

@pleiades is your question about men being objectified or women?

If you’re talking about women being objectified, @Haleth‘s answer was spot on. It’s all about the intent and message. If a woman, say Beyonce or Madonna, participates in a video that displays her sexuality, that’s not objectificaiton. If a woman wears a sexy dress and feels fabulous, that’s cool. She’s in control. She’s telling the world, “I’m a strong, healthy, sexual being”. Being seen as attractive and sexual is fine. Women aren’t complaining about that. We are sexual beings.

But look at these ads. Are these ads presenting the women portrayed as strong, in control, talented, intelligent women or is the focus on their body, body parts and potential as sexual tools. Take this advertisement for girl’s underwear. How is this a positive message for young women? That if they wear American Apparel underwear men will want to perve up their skirts if they bend over and that’s okay? That’s how she or he should see her value? Or how about this ad for a Burger King roll. How does suggesting the woman is about to give a head job to a burger relate to the food? Similarly, this ad for Lynx, says all you have to do is use Lynx and you’ll have a hot woman in her underwear, bending over your stove in the kitchen cooking for you.

And look at this for Roxy featuring Australian surfer Stephanie Gilmore. Gilmore is a talented surfer. Yet the ad doesn’t focus on her prowess as a surfer at all, instead it hones in on her body. She’s a beautiful woman without a doubt, but she’s so, so much more than that and this is a sports brand so why not show her on a board, doing what she does so brilliantly? Why not show her as a talented, amazing sports woman rather than focus in on her tits and arse? What a waste of an opportunity to show a fabulous young woman achieving in her field. She’s reduced to her body parts.