Honestly, would you think less of her?

No, its not my place to judge on a person’s life choices that doesn’t directly involve myself.

I would be supportive of her choice, but the world has changed in such ways as to not support her choice. I would urge her to at least consider suplimenting her plan with training of some sort.
Marriage is no longer held in the same regard, or to the same standards as it once was. The likelihood of a marriage actually lasting until death do us part has dropped dramatically. I think her wanting to make that choice is wonderful, but not terribly practical. I would hope that it all works out for her.

I would encourage her to get an education.

Yes, the choices are hers to make. No, I don’t think that by encouraging her, that is considered “judging.” I think it’s providing guidance, and having an education is something that is necessary in this economy. Getting married and relying on someone else is wonderful (if that’s what you’re into) but it’s really necessary to have a backup plan.

It’s her choice and I try not to judge anyone or their choices. But no one ever knows what life is going to throw at them. Backup plans are always helpful.

No. I have good friends who made those choices, although I didn’t.

Anyway, the world is not what it once was. She can have her family young, then have a career and/or go to school later, if she wants.

I would have a hard not time not thinking less of her.

It’s a funny thing that “college education” isn’t what it once was, but it’s also considered to be an absolute necessity for anything beyond pure entry-level and below-subsistence employment. That is curious, isn’t it?

With that said, I would encourage her – as I encourage everyone when I discuss this topic – to never stop learning, whether that involves “getting a formal post-secondary education”, including credentials to show prospective employers, should that ever be necessary, or simply continuing to improve her own mind through whatever means she chooses.

It is ridiculous to expect that every woman who wants to become a full-time mother and homemaker – and there certainly are places for women who want that! – must have a formal, credentialed college education. It is also essential, in that case, that she get the full benefits of a first-rate high school education, which is up to her more than anyone else! – and not just “serve time in high school until she can escape”. She should be able to write and speak clearly and appropriately for her age; compute easily and perform basic mathematics without needing a calculator to perform simple operations; understand and be conversant with broad history, civics, world religions and cultures and in short “be fully educated” as a high school student… and then not think she can chuck it “because she doesn’t need any of that”. If she’s going to be a full-time homemaker and parent then she needs every bit of that, and she needs to continue to expand it so that she can raise intelligent and aware children, too.

If she’s going to be a full-time homemaker and mother then she should clearly have some form of education in those skills – however she acquires them! – and she’d better be a good cook and housekeeper and understand what is involved in being a mother.

I never argue against education, but it can take many forms, so I frequently argue “against the formality and cost of a college education that is contra-indicated”. Your friend may be one such person. But she would also be foolish in the extreme to think that she will live her life like the end of a fairy tale: “happily ever after” when she meets and marries the prince. Princes often tire of their princesses, and there is no doubt that one will tire of a frumpish, ignorant and television-addicted “old lady” who can’t even engage him in conversation about anything outside of “what the kids did today”. (Not that that’s unimportant.) So her continuing education is mandatory, but what form it takes is up to her.

My reason for pushing the education is to get it while she’s young, before being busy with children (who, as we know, require day care and night care). Get the education before the marriage and children.

Informal learning is wonderful but on a job application, a degree from a university may be the difference between qualifying for the job and not qualifying for the job.

@FireMadeFlesh: “Or would you support her decision as much as you would any other life-altering choices she may make?”

If she is entering into this decision with full knowledge of her situation (including economic and education opportunities), why or how could I not support her decision as much as any other choice?

So many qualifiers up there!
GAs to those who don’t qualify their support and to @syz for her honesty.

I never used my college degree and I made life choices that were harshly judged by well-meaning others. If she wants to do this now, I hope she achieves this ambition. Her life ambitions will very likely change later on, and her methods of dealing with them as well. It is not easy to be a full-time parent. It requires patience, flexibility, and the ability to deal with the fact that you can’t go to the bathroom alone for years. ;-)

I honestly would not think less of her, and I worked very hard in a younger day for her right to make this or any other choice for her future.

Honestly? No.

There was a time when full time mother and wife was not thought of as out of the norm, in fact just the opposite. I can see the benefits of an education however, no matter what life choices you make so I would encourage her to continue on with that no matter what.
I have accepted certain lifestyle choices in family and close friends that I certainly would not have chosen myself but encouraging someone to think things through is not judging or condemning.

I would encourage her to get an education. She’ll never know when she’ll find herself abandoned with all the kids, and has to support them all by herself.

But no, I would never think less of a woman for wanting to be a full time mother and home maker. It’s a very important and, for me anyway, a very fulfilling job. Just doesn’t pay so good.

Why do you guys think she has not thought things through? Did I miss that part of the details? I know the OP asked if you would encourage her to reconsider, but I think that, in itself, is presuming that you know better. Unless you do know that the young woman and know that she has made such a choice frivolously (not evident in the Q) I think it’s a bit arrogant to offer advice as if she were somehow lacking in foresight.
I can think of reasons why she would make a decision this way.

I would encourage her to get her education and find some kind of a career as a fall-back in case of divorce or death (husband.) Otherwise it’s not my business to judge.

There are a lot of moving parts to this question, and that makes it difficult to nail down to a yes-no answer. If she sincerely wishes to be a homemaker and mother, I feel it is a noble choice to make, provided she finds a compatible mate. Modern economic realities being what they are make this a tough row to hoe. I would be supportive of her with that choice because as Mike Rowe says “somebody’s gotta do it”. Once her family is raised, she can still pursue other vocations and still fit in with the Rowe model.

@Majorrich That’s important, that her mate values & supports that choice! GA.

Any marriage that depends on the wife’s education level to keep the conversation flowing, isn’t going to work out anyways. It’s entirely possible to be intelligent without getting a college degree, it’s also possible to have a college degree that is completely useless.
I wouldn’t think any less of her, I totally get wanting to take that route. Starting out your adult life with student loan payments up the ass? That sucks.

No I would not.

Honestly, I would, but not for the wife and mother decisions. I’d try to explain to her why not getting an education is a bad idea. And if she did not educate herself I would think her just flat out stupid.

No, I think it is a really good choice. My wife is like that and I was looking for a wife of such nature.

My wife saves me more than $200,000+ a year by raising our kids and being a homemaker. Thanks to her, I have myself a free private chef, a driver, a house cleaner, lawn maintenance, laundry, child caretaker, free home-schooling (up to a certain point, but then I hired professional educators). Add it all up, it would be 200k in expenses, easily, if I had to purchase these services individually.

@eno: Wouldn’t it be possible for your wife to be all those things with a college degree?

If you ever broke up, wouldn’t it be easier for her to survive on her own?

As I said before, a degree might be the difference between qualifying for a job and not qualifying for a job. It is for that reason that there is no such thing as a “useless degree.” Even if someone has a degree in a field they don’t work in, if the degree gets their application accepted for the job, it’s served a purpose.

^Not everyone is college material.

@jca

What chyna said. There are garbage men for a reason. I’m sure they would love to be college graduates, but if they can’t handle college, why push the matter?

Or they might be college material but can’t afford it.

@cheebdragon:“I wouldn’t think any less of her, I totally get wanting to take that route. Starting out your adult life with student loan payments up the ass? That sucks.”

Seriously excellent point.

If you cannot afford college, you don’t have to go right after high school. You can take some time off and work multiple jobs that only require a high school degree. So you can enter and finish college debt free, only you will begin when you’re in your mid twenties instead of late teens.

This is assuming you can even handle college at all. Not everyone has the brains for it, hence all the janitors and garbage men out there.

Federal aid/grants are given to those with little income.

@eno There are many jobs out there besides janitors and garbage men that did not require a college degree. My brother began his own business after high school and owns his own construction company 35 years later. He is very wealthy.

I know, but I wasn’t about to list you every job out there. I was just using a few examples.

A businessman is not an employee.

I might choke at the description “modern woman”, but random chance all by itself guarantees that there must be someone somewhere ideally suited for the ambitions listed. And remember the virtual definition of youth revolves around making mistakes. In the end, if you believe that someone you care about is making a BIG mistake, you’re going to tell them so

This very issue is addressed in Mona Lisa Smile, sure its just a movie but I thought it very well done.

Let’s say she goes to college and gets a degree, then she does the homemaker thing for 10–20 years before something happens and she has to go find a job….What good will a 10–20 year old degree be if she hasn’t used it, and more importantly, with the way curriculum/education/technology changes?

@cheebdragon: I can tell you that for my employer (large government agency), they don’t care if you got the degree yesterday or forty years ago. If the requirement is a degree, it’s a degree. That’s what I meant when I said it can open doors as far as either qualifying for a job or not qualifying for a job. Now if the job is in IT or something with changing technology, then of course, when one interviews for the job, someone with more recent experience may get it. However, just to qualify for the job or test to get the job, a degree is a degree (in many cases, but not all).

I believe that I landed the jobs I did because I had an education degree. Only one of my jobs was actually IN education.

@jca That wouldn’t be true in the sciences. Very dependent on the field in question.

Well, of course! These were mostly customer service positions that any reasonably intelligent person with a HS degree could do.

@dappled_leaves: I understand. I’m talking about in general, having a degree opens doors that may be closed to a person without a degree.

If, 20 years down the road, the woman and her hubby break up and she needs to support herself, the degree may be the difference between a job and no job.

In all honesty, if she wants to be a homemaker the best advice anyone can give her would be to do whatever is required in her state to be licensed as a child care provider. It’s probably one of the only jobs that hasn’t changed much in the last 500+ years.

I did that when my kids were pre-school.

Stay-at-home parents are an asset to the community. Did you know that elementary school teachers do not plan the holiday parties for the children at school? The teachers sit back and let the parents take charge. We are responsible for the food and activities. We also chaperone during field trips and volunteer our time for other activities during and after school throughout the school year. We help working parents when they are in a bind and need someone to watch their children or take them to and from school. We are the watchful eyes and sometimes the second home for children who are left home alone during the summer months.

I don’t understand how anyone could think less of someone for doing all of these things.

@jca Yes, but @cheebdragon‘s point is very valid. If I get an undergrad in Chemistry in my 20s, have a family, and want to return to a career afterwards, I am not going to be interested in being a cashier or an office manager. I am going to want to be in the sciences – of course I am. The degree does lose value over time in such a case.

This is not semantics; women drop out of the sciences to have children all the time. It is exceedingly difficult to get back into the work afterwards.

@dappled_leaves: I don’t think you’re understanding me. When it comes to many jobs, having a degree is a prerequisite to getting your application looked at. For my job, for example, (caseworker, Child Prot Services), they don’t care what your degree is in or when you got it. If you don’t have a degree, you need not apply. For someone who may be in a position where she needs a job, and with the few jobs available nowadays, it would be helpful to have a degree. I’m know I’m not the first person to say that in this economy, a college degree is the equivalent of what a high school diploma used to be. I hear that all the time.

Let’s say, hypothetically, I was in a position where I needed a job quickly. The government is hiring, but most jobs need degrees. The alternative is cashier in CVS or local supermarket, or fast food. What might be more lucrative for the newly divorced mom?

@jonsblond: In my case (I can’t speak for everyone but for myself), I don’t think less of someone for wanting to be a SAHM (Stay at home mom). There’s no doubt that the class moms at school are very helpful to the teachers. I am just saying to get an education, if possible, because it can open doors in the future.

@jca I am understanding you. I am suggesting that it may make more sense, depending on the field, for the mother to wait until after she has had children (especially if she wants them while she’s young) to have certain types of degrees.

To stick with my Chemistry example, why can’t she have the kids, then do her undergrad degree? Then, if she wants to either do an advanced degree or join the workforce, the knowledge is both up-to-date and fresh in her mind. It would beat the hell out of having done an undergrad degree, taken years off for the kids, then trying to get back into Chemistry now that the techniques are more advanced and she can barely remember how stoichiometry works. She would likely have to do some refresher courses, resulting in more wasted time.

Again, I am saying that it differs between fields. Not every woman with children is aiming for a job at Walmart.

@dappled_leaves: Agreed, but to have kids and the inevitable bills and time constraints that kids put on a family, and then it’s the kids off to college (probably), which means more financial constraints…....to me, it’s a no brainer.

Your chemistry example is a good one, my point is, as I said before, more “in general.” In general, there would be more doors open to someone with a college degree. If she is in a desperate situation (broken up with hubby, needing money quickly), and she has the degree under her belt, she could be employed asap, as, in general, more doors would be open to her immediately.

Like I mentioned earlier, she has to find the right mate. Obviously in the event of a break up, post secondary education is important. But guys who are committed to a stay at home mother/ breadwinner home model is more than likely one who will be in it for the long haul. Certainly there may well be a bit of luck involved in finding the right match. But women with these kinds of values are a vital part of society and, if anything, something even men could seek to aspire to.

I would discourage her to have a baby before age 20 and encourage her to work or pursue an education for a year or two and then reevaluate. I see nothing wrong with a woman wanting to be a wife and mother, but she needs to also be able to be independent if it is ever necessary. Plus, she might just want to one day earn money, and having had the experience when you are young makes it less scary to enter the workforce later in life. Having a degree helps depending on the type of work she is interested in. Most people I know who don’t have a degree wish they did. Not all, but many of them do. I think everyone should experience doing a good job at a place of work or even their own business and earning money. Also, I think wives who have worked full time understand what it is like to work, and will understand better what their working spouse goes through.

Absolutely not, why would I? I’d almost think more.

If she were a licensed child care provider she would have her own income incase the relationship ended, and it’s something she could do before having kids of her own and long after her kids are grown. Even if she’s only watching 1–2 kids, she’s still making a few hundred a week. If she saves that money, she will have enough in the event of a divorce, to tell her husband to fuck off, if that’s her wish, or she could use that money to pay for going back to college.

Not to mention there is a VERY good chance of her being able to collect alimony.

@JLeslie I don’t think the example in the OP is a high school senior wanting to move in with her boyfriend after graduation and never work for a paycheck. The young woman is most likely out of high school, working instead of attending college and hoping to meet a nice man with the same wants and dreams of having a family. She’ll have work experience.

Where I live, if you’re not making close to a thousand a week, with more than one person in the household, you’re not surviving too well.

@jonsblond Ok, then no problem. I guess I was thrown a little because if a woman is already 27, working, and supporting herself, usually by then if she doesn’t have a college degree she probably wasn’t planning on getting one, whether she wants to get married and have children or not. Of course, women can pursue a degree at any time, I worked with a woman who worked for a fragrance vendor. She was one of those women who spray perfume in the department stores. She finally went to college after her girls finished college and she got her bachelors in Architecture. I only use the word finally, because she had waited, kept working to help pay for her kids education. I have another friend who got her degree in her 30’s in Industrial Engineering. Before that she was a preacher’s wife with a son. Well, she still is a preacher’s wife with a son. Going to college and eventually working was a big break away from what her husband thought his wife would do and be. I don’t know what she thought for herself when she was in her early twenties, but what we want out of life can change.

As long as the woman is realistic about what she wants for her life, and what she wants for her children, and what that costs, and her husband is on board, the couple can do whatever they want as far as I am concerned. I have a girlfriend who really would have preferred not to work when her son was born, in general she really likes the “traditional” roles where the husband goes out and makes money and the wife does all the domestic stuff, but she married a guy who didn’t make much money, and she didn’t want to live in poverty, so she boxed herself in having to be the breadwinner. They wound up divorced. Not just for money reasons, because once divorced she really had to keep working, but it was a big factor that he was not more a little more ambitious when it came to money.

When I was pregnant the first time I really would have seriously considered not working once the baby was born, it was the original plan in my head. I couldn’t imagine giving my infant to someone else to watch all day. As you know I miscarried, but I think I probably would have quit work. I had a college degree, but even if I hadn’t, it would not have made a significant difference in that decision. What made a difference was what my husband was earning, and that we had saved a little while I was working, partly because I wanted to be able to quit if we had a baby and partly because I am a saver anyway. It would have been really tight on money, but we could have squeaked by as long as nothing horrible had arisen God forbid.

@jonsblond beautifully put, couldn’t agree more.

Women have a lot of options these days, being a homemaker and full-time mum is only one of them, if someone chooses to take that path who the hell are we to look down upon them?

Not only would I applaud her with the highest praise, if I had it like that, I would get her the flyest, top notch vehicle of her choice.

The problem is, when her husband decides to abandon the family, what’s she gonna do then? She really needs to have a degree, or something, under her belt against that possibility.

^ Or her own work-from-home business or income earning vehicle.

I ran a daycare full time, to support the kids and so I would have to put them in someone else’s daycare, while going to school full time, hoping an education would lead to a better income down the road.