If a child did something deliberately awful to you, and the parents were light or even skipped punishment, what would you do?

First of all, big difference between the two scenarios.

If the kid broke or stole something, the parents don’t get to shrug it off, they have to pay to fix or replace it.

Secondly, if the kid said or did something that was demonstrably something the child should have known was wrong, but did it anyway, and the parents brushed it off, then the child is no longer welcome in my presence or with my child.

To “make things right” the parents would need to apologize and also demonstrate that the child was appropriately disciplined.

What is it that you want from both of these scenarios? In the case of the child breaking something – I suspect that you want reimbursement/replacement of the item. The parents are responsible for replacing this.

In the case of the child saying something that you find inappropriate and rude – what exactly would you consider making it “right”?

I agree with @zenvelo in that these are two completely different scenarios, but I question the relevance of his “also demonstrate that the child was appropriately disciplined” comment.

I really have no control over how my friends discipline their children, but if their child broke something, I may say I don’t want the money – depending on how good friends they are. In other words, the way I would handle it from close friends may be different then the way I’d handle it from a work friend or someone I’m not that close to. It would depend on the item and the friendship.

If the kid stole something and I knew for a fact that the kid stole it, I would want the kid to return it. If the kid did not admit to it and return it, I would be done with having the kid around. As far as my friendship with the parent(s), again, if I knew for a fact that the kid took it and the parent took the kid’s side, then I would be upset. If I had no proof the kid took it, I could understand the parent wanting to give the kid the benefit of the doubt. So it would all depend on the circumstances.

If the kid was a raging terror, I would probably not want to be around them in the future when they had the kid present. I can’t stand kids that are out of control. I realize some kids have issues, but I find it hard to be around. Fortunately, I don’t have any friends with kids like that.

I pretty much agree with everyone above that it depends on the exact scenerio, how friendly I am with the parents, and for me, how typical it is for the kid to be out of control. I probably would not care about the exact way the parent disciplines their child, but I would not want to be around a child who is constantly out of control, rude, and causing havoc. It has to be pretty extreme though. One of my friends had a kid who was beyond the usual boys will be boys scenerio, and it drove her to her wits end also. I never felt like I didn’t want to deal with being around her son, but we rarely were in a situation where he was with us anyway.

If the child broke something I would expect the parent to offer to pay for it, I might accept the money, I might not.

If a child is rude to me and the parent does nothing I likely would do nothing. There is a chance if they do nothing I would address the child directly and advise him why what he did was unnacceptable. I would just hope one day in the future it would sink in that behaving as he does is not appropriate and even those his parents didn’t teach him that he can still learn it from other sources. For all I know the parents usually do set a good example and correct such behavior, but for whatever reason that day they are exhausted or distracted or just let it go on purpose. I can’t know unless I am with them often.

I would not want to be around the child or the parents much, that is fer sure.

Capital punishment is a bit strong.

I agree with @jca and @JLeslie – stay away from them. But whatever was broken… that’s water over the dam. Write it off.

Now I’m really curious…

@zenvelo: “To “make things right” the parents would need to apologize and also demonstrate that the child was appropriately disciplined.”

What relevance could this possibly have? Is your goal to help raise the child into a responsible citizen or is it to not have the child do whatever it is you felt was inappropriate to you again? In what possible way would you be able to measure the appropriateness of the “discipline”, and how would this be communicated? I’m very confused.

I would need to talk to the parents about my feelings if I were close to them and see where the conversation went.

When we lived in a neighborhood when our boys were young our house was the house all the neighbor kids hung out at. I had many unfortunate incidents with unruly young boys. There was a boy who had parents that didn’t care what their precious son did. It made me angry when I noticed he was out playing after he had done something inappropriate at my house, but what could I do about it? He wasn’t my child. The only thing I could do was not allow him on my property and forbid my children to go to his house.

Repeat offenders were not allowed on our property. I’m so thankful I live in an area now without immediate neighbors. It’s so much easier to keep the vermin away.

@hominid The OP was asking what would “make things right”; and my answer is that the parents would need to apologize, and talk to me about what the consequences were for the child.

I used the term “appropriate” because a four year old can be talked to and have to apologize, while an 8 year old needs stronger consequences. And appropriate doesn’t mean “I whipped him with a switch”.

My goal would, depending on the relationship of me to the parents and to the child, would be both to be part of “the village” it takes to raise a child, and also to not have it happen in my presence.

@zenvelo: “and talk to me about what the consequences were for the child.”

Wow. This seems completely over-the-top. Anyone that would ask me what the consequences would be if my child ever said something inappropriate to them would likely get an earful of more “inappropriateness”, and then likely a complete removal from my life.

@zenvelo Why do you need to know the specific punishment? For me, as long as the parent acknowledged their child did something wrong and offered to pay for anything broken or apologized for their child’s behavior it would probably be enough for me. Sometimes children just act up, even when the parents are wonderful. I don’t feel I need to scrutinize exactly how a parent disciplines their child.

I wasn’t thinking of a personal thing. I was remembering that a few years someone asked for advice about how to punish their child for destroying expensive property. I believe the child went without ice cream for a week or something.

That’s bothered me for years. I know you can’t control how other parents make punishment decisions, but I’d be REALLY ticked off if the kid got off Scott free for damaging something valuable of mine on purpose. I don’t think I could be friends with the parents anymore. I wouldn’t feel that my possessions were safe around their kids at all. I wouldn’t feel comfortable having them in my own home. I’d also feel slighted that they thought so little of me and my things that they wouldn’t properly punish their kid.

I’d also be really hurt if the kid said something rude to me (personally rude, not just a bad word) and the parents did nothing. This did actually happen to me. I went to someone’s house at Christmastime and the kid said “I hope you got us good stuff for presents and not crap like last year!” Mom just rolled her eyes and said something like “Kids will be kids!” I still can’t stand to be around the parents. I can somewhat forgive the kid because he grew out of his behavior, but not the parent. That parent is X in my book.

I agree I think as far as what the parent did to discipline the child is between the parent and the child. It’s not my business. I would like the parent and possibly the child to discuss with me what happened and/or apologize (depending on the circumstances as I said above). As far as what the punishment is for the child, that is not necessarily for me to know.

@keobooks: In case like that, I would expect the parent to ask the child to apologize or correct him in my presence. What they do when they get home, to the child, if anything, I don’t need to know.

@keobooks: “I’d be REALLY ticked off if the kid got off Scott free for damaging something valuable of mine on purpose. I don’t think I could be friends with the parents anymore. I wouldn’t feel that my possessions were safe around their kids at all. I wouldn’t feel comfortable having them in my own home. I’d also feel slighted that they thought so little of me and my things that they wouldn’t properly punish their kid.”

I have no idea what “properly punish their kid” could mean, and I suspect you don’t either. But I think you should focus on what is really bothering you and how to resolve it. I think you’ve already figured it out. Some people act differently, and it is not compatible with you, and therefore if you find you are unable to be around them, then don’t be around them.

And if someone breaks something, doesn’t it seem like the correct response is to offer to replace it, right? The kid, the intentions, the consequences, “getting off scott free”, etc – I think you’re complicating things.

As for taking the words of kids personally – I suppose it really depends on the children and how old they are. But if you are uncomfortable with the interactions you are having with children and their parents, it seems the best option would be to avoid contact.

@keobooks if those are each isolated incidents my reaction would not be like yours. if the kids are always out of control I figure the larents either really aren’t doing a great job, or the child might just have been born a handful.

The ice cream punishment would bother me, because I don’t believe in using food as reward or punishment, but I would not feel it was some sort of disrespect against me.

If parents don’t discipline their kids in a way that I feel is constructive I assume they don’t do it most of the time and it has nothing to do with me.

@keobooks Was it this question? (Usually my memory isn’t the best, so if I’m right I’ll be giving myself a high five.) :)

@hominid and @JLeslie The OP was asking how to “make things right” when the parents had originally blown off the child’s misbehavior. Think of it in this sequence:

1. Child misbehaves.
2. Parents ignore or discount.
3. I talk to the parents and say their child is no longer welcome.
4. Parents wish to restore friendship, resulting in conversation.

The pivotal point is in the parents having failed to respond/discipline/correct the child. And if the parents want to “make it right” with me, the conversation will partly be about the correction of the child.

@jonsblond – Yep. That’s the question. I don’t know why it sticks in my head and comes back to haunt me now and then. It may be because my daughter is getting to an age where she will be old enough to commit some serious crimes against adults.

@hominid – I DO know what proper punishment is. I posted it before. The kid needs to understand the value of money and associate it with the damage they did. As the other person, I’d want some sort of guarantee that something has sunk in to the kid’s head. Something that would make the kid at least pretend to feel remorse and be less likely to do it again. If the parents don’t do something that makes me feel comfortable having them and their kids in my house, I wouldn’t want them in my house.

As for the kid saying something rude to me, I wish I had the nerve to say something to the parents. I don’t know what, but I shouldn’t have to take verbal abuse from someone just because they are a kid.

@keobooks: “I DO know what proper punishment is.”

For your kid.

@zenvelo: “The pivotal point is in the parents having failed to respond/discipline/correct the child. And if the parents want to “make it right” with me, the conversation will partly be about the correction of the child.”

Like I said, this is none of your business. If you are concerned with restoring a friendship with the parents of a kid that is incompatible with you, inquiring what the corrective will be seems a strange way of mending that relationship.

Let me put it this way.

parent: Your kid called me a poopy head. I was very offended.
me: I’m sorry.
parent: What are you going to do about it?
me: Fuck you. [walks away]

@keobooks and you seem to want more than to correct for the situation. It almost seems as if there is a call for retributive justice. People in general are difficult to deal with. And kids are quite challenging – especially if you take things personally. Finding people and kids that you are compatible with is one thing. Demanding punishment and for people to change is another.

And we’re assuming a ton here. We don’t know what the age of the kids would be in this scenario. People have different standards.

@zenvelo you say to the parents the child is no longer welcome, and I guess you are also saying the friendship is ruined. They are two separate things to me. Am I right that you have dissolved the friendship and not the parents of the child? Who are you most upset with the child or the parents? If it is the parents then I would say discuss with them whether they realize how bothered you were by the situation and see how they respond, but I still would not really be ciritiquing or being offended by their discilpine methods. I might be offended with their own dismissal of my feelings if they continue to dismiss how much something hurt me once I spell it out.

For instance, @keobooks example at Christmastime. The kid was rude. The oarent I think was trying to tell @keobooks not to worry about her gift last year and kids say whatever pops into their heads and sometimes children don’t value what is given to them. They can take things for granted and don’t understand the value of money and the value of the thought that counts. I would hope that parent on the spot would have told their child to apologize right away and explain to them later why that is incredibly inconsiderate and mean. I too don’t like a simple kids will be kids (which is true to some extent) was what was said, but we also don’t know if the parent addressed it in more depth later.

When I was very young one late October a neighbor asked me what I was going to be for Halloween and I told him about my costume and then I asked him and he said he didn’t know, and I said, “you could be an old man.” My mom was horrified. She told me that isn’t nice to say and she apologized profusely to our neighbor. I remember feeling terrible. It has stuck with me for over 40 years as you can see. This is an example of how kids can be kids. I was a sweet girl who never wanted to hurt anyone, but I did not know what I was saying could be so hurtful or politically incorrect. I didn’t need some grand punishment to learn a lesson and I would hope the gentlemen understood kids say shitty things sometimes and understood my mom felt badly. He seemed to accept her apology, and I hope he was not stuck on whether I said I’m sorry in the moment or not, or some other idea that he felt should be my “punishment.”

I’d call the cops and maybe file a formal complaint.

@JLeslie—Your outburst was far different from my nephew’s. First of all, you were most likely MUCH younger and second of all, you didn’t mean to be nasty.

I don’t want divine retribution or anything. I just get tired of seeing kids who don’t give two figs about hurting people, animals or things and their parents don’t do anything to help them learn to care. They grow up into adults who are jerks and everyone wonders why.

@keobooks: “I don’t want divine retribution or anything. I just get tired of seeing kids who don’t give two figs about hurting people, animals or things and their parents don’t do anything to help them learn to care.”

Is it possible that parenting happens in private, and that you are not privy to the values the parents are attempting to teach to their children and the methods they are using?

@keobooks: “They grow up into adults who are jerks and everyone wonders why.”

You are unaware of how people raise their kids, and you making assumptions about adult “jerks” and how they were raised. Do you have any evidence for this?

@keobooks I think you should say something directly to the child if you feel that particular parent sucks. If you are angry or upset about it enough that you don’t care about any sort of friendship with the parent, then why not? You might be the voice that sticks with the child that his behavior is unnacceptable. He may not show it in that moment, but it may stick with him.

I know you for a long time on fluther and if you tell me it was very bad and very upsetting I believe you and do not think you are being hysterical. I don’t know if I would be as upset as you, but it doesn’t matter. I say things to children when they do something unsafe and I don’t care if the parents is right there. Sometimes the parent is glad and says something along the lines of, “see, I told you not to play on the escalator.” sometimes I think theyvare glad another adult spoke up, because children are more likely to challenge their own parents. Sometimes a parent takes issue with me talking to their child, but it is rare.

It can be tricky. It really deoends on how the parent is reacting to the behavior whether I say something or not. Sometimes a child is blurting out stuff or misbehaving, because they have a condition. I don’t think that is the case in your example, I just am saying I realize one cannot always know the whole story like the parent might, so it isn’t like I go around constantly scolding other people’s children. I actually, usually, am the person in the room not bothered by a child acting up. Your situation the kid was not acting up, just rude, and he does need to learn what he said was inappropriate.

I think it is a big jump from a kid saying they didn’t like a gift to the child harming animals, but I will assume you are looking at a pattern and not talking about this one specific child regarding everything you named that you are tired of. Certainly if a child is harming an animal interviene. I think the kid who said the gift thing to you had no idea it was so hurtful. I hope that is the case. Do you think he said it to actually hurt your feelings?

I’d say don’t bring the kid any more gifts if you stay in contact with his parents.

I get your frustration. It really bothered me that my SIL did not raise her children to apologize. Not to each other and not to other people. I remember once my neighbors child was playing with girls a little older than her and she got hurt, because I think they didn’t estimate her physical ability well. Anyway, she gets hurt and walks back over to her mom and me crying, her mom had already started towards her, and the little girl said, “sally hurt me by accident.” And, it was the sweetest thing I had seen in a while after witnessing my niece and nephew purposely trying to get each other in trouble and never wanting to say I’m sorry or that something was just an accident.

Then a couple years later I got into a long drawn out fight and tension situation with the same SIL, and when I tried to hold out the olive branch and apologize for my part in it, even though she started it and had been a total bitch holding onto her anger for so long, she didn’t accept my apology and reciprocate for her part it in too and smooth it over. No, she blurted out, we are different and walked away and kept the tension up for years. I learned that to her an apology means you admit you are a shitty, less deserving person who deserves to be looked down on. So, I just accept that we are culturally different (she hates when I or anyone says it is a cultural difference) and hopefully her children marry people who are from a similar culture if they think like her and will have lasting relationships.

I don’t know if that story will mean anything to you regarding this issue, but my only point is you can’t control everything, and people do things differently in their families. I have come to a point that if people behave in a way that is upsetting to me I just don’t deal with those people much if I don’t have to. I do have a hope that my niece and nephew turn out a little differently than their mother on this matter since they were raised in America. My husband, who was raised in the same country as his sister is different, so I am not harping on the cultural difference necesarily, but I do think Americans tend to be more oriented towards apologizing and clearing the air and not thinking an apology is a bad thing, but rather something that we should all understand sometimes takes a lot of bravery, and can be very difficult, and demonstrates a conscience and understanding.

The kid was about 12, so he was definitely old enough to know what he was saying and that it wasn’t something nice to say. This kid had other passive aggressive tendencies and this was his most overt form of aggression I’d seen in him. Usually, he would whisper snarky comments under his breath or “accidentally” break things or forget to do things you asked him to. His younger brother was also very angry, but more overt. He actually threw temper tantrums up until he was 10 years old—screaming and kicking, whining or yelling. I’m not sure what happened with the kids but they both abruptly stopped their antisocial behavior when they got to some point in middle school.

After working retail and being a teacher, I think I am jaded to lots of things parents do. I’ve seen parents stick up for and defend their kids bad behavior. I’ve seen them claim that we were lying about the behavior.

But I’ve also seen parents grossly over-react to minor things. Would “mind your own businiess” be the answer if I said the punishment didn’t fit the crime because the kid broke something inexpensive and the parents started screaming and calling the kids names?

Everyone says that the parents always know what’s the best discipline for their kids is. It’s not always true. Some parents are far too harsh and some let their kids get away with anything. I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with having an opinion about what they do with their kids in front of you over things the kids did to you (or your stuff)

@keobooks – I understand your frustration with dealing with children. But you seem to be assuming more than is justified.

First, do you know whether these kids have been diagnosed? Their abrupt change in behavior may have come after medication and/or therapy. You’d be surprised how much people judge kids without any understanding of what a child is capable of and what challenges they have.

It also seems that you may be subscribing to the faulty “blank slate” model of development, which is almost an outright rejection of biology. The result is an exclusive focus on parenting – if a child exhibits a good or bad quality, it is the result of a particular approach to parenting. Parenting is important, for sure, but we’ve left this model behind and no longer attribute all behavior to the product of parenting.

Another assumption you appear to be making is that while you acknowledge that some parents do not approach challenges with their children in the most ideal way, you seem to think that your less-knowledgeable perspective of these children provides you a better understanding of what is going on and what is required. The fact is that you have no idea what these kids or parents are going through and what approaches they use in their parenting – even if you are close to these people.

These assumptions have led you to believe that you truly understand what is going on, and you are likely telling yourself stories about these kids and their parents. I’m not sure these stories are easing your frustration. You seem very upset. Have you tried offering yourself up an alternate story or even no story at all. What happens if you simply look towards these people with compassion? What does it do to your pain?

@keobooks Maybe that kid was a smart ass one too many times and some other kid in Jr. High put it to a stop. Kids are good at shaming each other. Boys also do hazing behavior to each other that can sometimes shut a kid up. Or, he might just have matured. Who knows.