Social Question

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Why are most people still so drawn to Microsoft, when there is Linux, and Mac, for great alternatives?

Asked by SQUEEKY2 (23474points) October 3rd, 2014

Ever since going to Mac, I always kick myself for not doing it years earlier.
Why does the world stick with Windows and all of it’s problems, when the other systems seem to work better?

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56 Answers

Mariah's avatar

Windows is working just fine for my purposes, and much of the software I use is not available for Mac or Linux.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Why does Micro soft feel the need to launch another operating system every other day it seems while the other 2 do not?
Just wondering?

ragingloli's avatar

Also, macs are expensive as fuck. You do not spend 2k on your secretary’s office PC.
There are countless of specialised trade and business applications that only run on Windows.
Windows is so prevalent, because it can run on a potato and is easy to use.
I tried linux once, and I was like “nope” when it basically demanded that I go to the fucking commandline mode to install a freaking graphics driver.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@ragingloli has it. I can get a fairly powerful Windows machine for $350. I can get a Mac with the same power for around $1000.

Remember that Macs are essentially Unix machines with some fancy doodads on the screen to keep things simple.

hominid's avatar

They’re not. What I am seeing is people who use a computer for browsing the web, email, etc are buying Chromebooks or very inexpensive Windows pcs. People who have a need for other uses weigh their options (including price) and use Windows or Mac. Single people with a desire to tinker usually have at least one Linux box.

Mac is only an alternative to Windows when it is. It completely depends. It would be foolish for most people I know to purchase a Mac, when all they are really doing is stuff inside a browser. To purchase a Macbook would do nothing but drain a lot more money from their wallets (or credit cards).

I use a Chromebook for personal use and a Lenovo Windows notebook for development. I’m a Microsoft stack developer, so I suppose I’m stuck with it for now. But I would have no use for a Windows or Mac device if I didn’t need it for work.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

I have been forced to use exasperating Microsoft products by employers simply because they believed that saving a buck was more important than having the most seamless as possible employee/device interface.

This borders on a being a human rights issue.

If an employer forces you to wrangle with Windows how much can he or she think of you?

elbanditoroso's avatar

@SecondHandStoke – that’s a joke, right?

Human Rights issue my ass!

I can just see going to the International Criminal Court or the United Nations Human Rights Commission and saying “My rights are being violated – I am being forced to use Windows”.

Or coming into New York and claiming asylum because your country allows employers to make people use Windows.

For better or worse, we have three major consumer operating systems in the world.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I will not argue that the Macs shelf price is a lot more than a Windows machine, but from what I have seen the mac comes with a lot more programs out of the box than the windows ,and for some reason the mac seems to retain a lot of it’s value where the Micro soft computer does not.
The Microsoft computer, if not protected by antivirus programs,seems to get bugs very easily where the other 2 don’t.
I still have a Windows7 computer but use it less and less now that we have the Mac.
And another thing about cost, YOU can get into a Mac for under a $1000 get a Mac mini starting under $500 Canadian than use any monitor, and keyboard and mouse,and your there .

ragingloli's avatar

@SecondHandStoke
If macos is so great, there is a simple solution.
Get crapple to sell their macos as a standalone, to be installed on any cheap ass office clunker.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@ragingloli scary but interesting, also it noted that the they are targeted less often because of their fewer numbers.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

loli fails to mention that while the OS was “hacked” in seconds it was preceded by many hours of behind the scenes preparation.

@ragingloli

What makes you think my statement above was about the OS only?

ragingloli's avatar

because the hacking community did not bother (because almost no one uses macs) to do all the legwork in the years before.
In the case of windows, there is a huge hacker community searching for vulnerabilities, writing exploits and tools and practising constantly because windows is so prevalent.
And still it resisted longer than crapple’s os.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

As with the case with any device a person can use or own:

Human fitting IS. PRIORITY. ONE.

ragingloli's avatar

which is why i am using windows

downtide's avatar

Mac is too expensive. Linux is too technical. My SO is a Windows professional so if something goes wrong he can fix it. If something went wrong with linux we would both be clueless

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

my mac runs osx, win7 & linux. guess which OS gets used 85% of the time? Then guess which gets the rest. OSX is not robust or detail oriented. It’s just like diluted, dumbed-down unix with some flashy bells and whistles.
I gave apple a shot and there is nothing special there. It’s great hardware but overpriced for what it is. There is no way to logically argue out of that. It’s simply a matter of fact. I would have gotten something from alienware or top of the line thinkpad if I had to spend the same amount. It would have been a much better machine.
I have been a microsoft basher in the past but they have largely redeemed themselves with win7. We’ll see about what happens after 8. All that said the future with zero doubt will be powered by android (Linux)

Pachy's avatar

My first computers (in the ‘80s) were Windows machines and that’s what I stuck with till the iMac was introduced. I’ve bought a couple of Windows laptops in recent years but always wound up returning them because I couldn’t get re-accustomed to Windows (I HATE 8). As for alternate OS platforms, I’m sure they’re fine, but I just never trusted them as much as Windows and then Mac.

Pachy's avatar

Another reason I remained a Windows user for so long was that most companies I worked for used only PCs. The exception was Motorola, where I went to work for in the early ‘90s. They were manufacturing Apple’s PowerPC chip at the time and encouraged employees to use Macs.

jerv's avatar

First off, I can get two PCs for the price of a Mac and still have enough left over for a hooker and an eight-ball.

Second, PCs have video capabilities Macs lack. While you may get by just fine in an integrated laptop-grade GPU, those who do gaming, CAD/CAM, or graphics design need something more than any Mac offers… or can even accept into it’s hermaphroditically-sealed chassis.

Third, software. There’s a little circular reasoning in the cause and effect, but the fact remains that Windows has the most software, especially games. Linux is catching up, but due to reason #2 above, Macs won’t. Why port games to a platform that lacks the power to run them well?

Fourth, customization. Mac users are lucky Steve Jobs even allowed a choice of wallpaper on the desktop. Windows and (especially) Linux allow far more customization, though in Linux’s case maybe a bit too much.

@downtide Maybe true 15 years ago, but modern Linux distros are “drool-proof”. If you can insert a CD, and know name, time zone, and native language, you can install many Linux distros. If you can use Google, you can figure out how to use the repositories to install new programs. (Far simpler than downloading an installer and hoping that you have all the files you need as is the case with Windows.) And if you can access the internet in any fashion, you can access a thriving horde of “white hats”, “beards”, and gurus.

FireMadeFlesh's avatar

For me, Linux isn’t widely accepted enough, and Macs are just painful to use. Although since the advent of Win8, I may have to learn. I can’t stand Win8.

dappled_leaves's avatar

I loathe Apple products. They make me want to tear them apart and wrench their guts out to see where things are happening. I like the transparency and control that I get with a Windows machine. If I want to use Unix for something, I’ll boot into Linux – not buy a Mac.

And yeah… viruses. So what? I’ve had a few, and learned how to eat them for breakfast. Viruses only scare people who have no idea how to do anything with their computers (i.e., Mac users).

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@dappled_leaves really ??I find the mac far easier to get around in than windows,want to know how to uninstall a program on the mac,you simply drag it to the trash bin.
Windows aint half that easy to get rid of a program.

dappled_leaves's avatar

Control panel > Programs > Uninstall

Whew, that was hard.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Uninstall equals uninstall wizard and following it through, for most if not all programs.
Sure can be done but not half as easy as the mac.
I still have a window7 computer and still use it but less and less since we got the mac,even the wife has taken to the mac.
I will probably always have one computer running windows ,but my main one will be Mac from now on.

jerv's avatar

@FireMadeFlesh On the consumer end of regular desktop computing maybe, but most servers and supercomputers, as well as many embedded systems use Linux. As do governments. Basically, anywhere performance, reliability, and/or security really matter.

@SQUEEKY2 You’re running Linux with an Apple-designed UI. Many of the alleged strengths of OS X are the result of it’s common lineage with Linux; both are UNIX derivatives. You don’t love the OS, you love the fancy cases, and the Aqua UI. The same UI that Mac4Lin gives to Linux users.

ragingloli's avatar

@jerv
The info systems on our trains and trams run on windows. I think the ticket machines do, too.

FireMadeFlesh's avatar

@jerv Absolutely. Linux is unbeatable for security and system stability. But I’m not running a business, storing other people’s data, or legally required to maintain my data. So as an individual end user, Linux isn’t well supported enough. I understand that compatibility is better than it used to be, but I still want to be able to use all the same file formats for the sake of sharing data, and I don’t want to lose the skills I have of the Windows platform. But as I said, Win8 is making me reconsider that stance.

jerv's avatar

@FireMadeFlesh
Are you talking like file formats as in .JPG, .XLS, .MP3, .AVI, .PDF, etcetera? Many Linux distros come with all the software to read and write all those; the equivalents of Media Player, Office (usually OpenOffice, or LibreOffice), Acrobat Reader, and all that. Most programs that are available for Windows either have Linux versions (like Firefox), or have an equivalent Linux counterpart (like Office), often with the same menus and keyboard shortcuts precisely to ease transition. Trust me, if Linux computers used different formats that Windows boxes couldn’t read, then the internet would be set up totally differently than it currently is. I’m pretty sure that between your computer and mine, this page has gone through quite a few Linux boxes, yet it isn’t mangled, garbled, or otherwise incompatible.

However, the UI is different enough that I could see you “losing skills” by moving away from the only platform you know. I mean, Mint 14’s desktop is pretty different from Win7, and Zorin is totally disingenuous when they say:

“The main goal of Zorin OS is to give new users easy access to Linux. That is why Zorin OS incorporates the familiar Windows 7-like interface by default to dramatically reduce the learning curve of this system while still experiencing the main advantages of Linux. You can also utilise the desktop with other interfaces. This is thanks to the exclusive Zorin Look Changer which lets you change your desktop to look and act like either Windows 7, Windows XP or GNOME 2 in the free versions of Zorin OS. The Premium editions also include the Windows 2000, Unity and Mac OS X looks.”

Don’t get me wrong, Linux has it’s limits, but the most common arguments I here against migrating are falsehoods. For instance, maybe it’s just the company I keep, but I find it easier to find help for Linux issues than for WIndows issues, and I personally would consider that “well supported”.

But you have helped me think more about the original question, so I must thank you for pushing me to the point of insight.

jerv's avatar

In short, Windows is popular because of a shrewd, unprecedented business move that serendipitously exploited a few faults in human psychology. However, to explain what I mean will take a bit of rambling as I try to explain my reasoning behind that statement.

The reason Windows is so popular has nothing to do with technical merit. It is the most common consumer OS in part because, many years ago (before Windows), Microsoft made a deal with computer makers to package their OS with every PC. Microsoft offered the OEMs licenses for the OS at a discount compared to their retail price, thereby making the PC/OS combo deal a bargain comapred to buying the two items separately. Of course, the only combo deal there was was Microsoft’s OS.

As a computer is useless without an OS, and Microsoft was amongst the first to capitalize on the concept of software being a commodity item, Microsoft had the first OS to be widely distributed. And since people getting new computers wanted to be compatible with the people who already had computers, and different OSs were nowhere near as interoperable as they are now, Microsoft got a lock.

The only real exception to this for years was the Mac, but Apple made some bad decisions like pricing themselves out of the market, being deliberately difficult to work on, and such that about the only people who bought them were anarchists and artists. Businesses went the less expensive route and went mostly PC… with Microsoft.

Linux has a long, interesting history that I won’t get into much here, but the main reason Linux even exists is Linus Torvald’s desire for an OS that lacked the licensing restrictions (and fees) that Microsoft and Apple had on their OSs. They don’t have the marketing clout that Apple and Microsoft do because they aren’t in it for a profit; they just want to make good software.

Of course, Linux isn’t really a company anyways. You have a billionaire, a few small subdivisions of larger corporations, some grey-beards, and others all with slightly different versions of the same POSIX-compliant open-source OS. If an OEM did want to go Linux, would they go Ubuntu? SuSE? Fedora? Mint? Linux isn’t exactly commercially viable as the whole idea of “commercial” is inapplicable to open-source.

Now, most people want to the easy route. The reason Internet Explorer is so widely used is simply because it’s preinstalled. Buying a blank PC, sticking a disc in, telling the computer your name, time zone, and native language… that takes much more effort than just giving the OEM an extra $50–60 (of which $40 goes to Microsoft) to just have a “plug in the magic box and it does sorcery!” route. Hell, the preinstalled OS and “It just works, right out of the box!” was a major selling point for Apple for years; much of the Mac’s early success is precisely because of consumer laziness.

And the misconceptions about Linux’s compatibility, while there is some truth to them, are overblown enough that often even suggesting saving much money for a more stable, secure OS is met with accusations of blasphemy and a flood of provable falsehoods. Oddly, Macs are even less compatible with PCs, yet people are willing… eager… to pay double what they would for a Windows box :/ A little ignorance can breed a lot of fear.

In addition to being a bit intellectually lazy, many people are also a bit xenophobic, especially towards things they don’t understand. One way to mitigate that fear is to march in lock-step with the rest of the herd; those are the majority of your Windows users right there. Sure, you have a few rebels, but most of them think differently, just like everyone else and march in lock-step with a different herd. Then there are the fearless ones who buck the two-party system and wander around solitary or in small packs.

But the vast majority will join whichever herd they can afford (or are willing to pay for) a membership in, and actively oppose any attempt to alter their allegiance, especially if done by trying to break them free from the herd mentality entirely.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

@jerv

I find it hard to believe that you, as a machinist, cannot marvel at the wizardry that is the MacBook Pro’s unibody.

You can tell our fluthery friends what the difficult and conflicting design and manufacturing parameters are or I can.

Yeah.

I just buy Apple for the image…

jerv's avatar

@SecondHandStoke Maybe I’ve just seen too many things that are far more ingenious to be impressed. I will concede that the aluminum unibody Macbooks earn some of their price premium for the case, but when you consider the actual cost of that process compared to the consumer price…. well, if the manufacturing were that pricey then Apple’s markups would be closer to industry-average instead of 5–10 times that figure. I know what machining costs ;)

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

It’s just a fancy box and it’s costing the buyer 600–1200 dollars.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

Fancy…

Am I the only person ITT that is considering the thought that goes into the design of consumer products?

Fancy.

Does that mean rigid?

Does it mean lightweight?

Inoffensive to the eye?

Durable?

dappled_leaves's avatar

@SecondHandStoke No. I’ve considered it. It’s very pretty. But function is far more important.

I can’t imagine making my computer buying decisions based on form – or worse, the thought of form, over function. That seems ridiculous to me.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

Form is function.

dappled_leaves's avatar

<laughing>

Still trolling, I see.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

^Seriously no, I am not trolling.

But it’s ok.

You just don’t understand.

When I worked in graphic design I would be asked what that was while they were literally surrounded by examples of it.

hominid's avatar

@SecondHandStoke: “Form is function.”

We’re not talking about hammers or baseball bats here.

Admittedly, as a software engineer, I am far more interested in the software of any device. The case is but a container. Sure, it’s nice to have a beautiful container. But the container is still just a container. The function is measured by what the software can do. Right?

dappled_leaves's avatar

@SecondHandStoke “You just don’t understand.”

Nope, I don’t understand your point of view here. But that is not an uncommon problem, since you appear to delight in such grandiose, yet utterly nonsensical pronouncements.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

If I stated that in my car I prefer the steering wheel in front of me instead of beside me how is that grandiose and nonsensical?

It simply isn’t my fault if it occurs to so few that industrial design doesn’t have to be bad.

dappled_leaves's avatar

@SecondHandStoke Of course it occurs to many that industrial design doesn’t have to be bad. But that isn’t what you said.

What you said is that industrial design is everything. And yes, that is grandiose and nonsensical.

Classic straw man argument. Nicely done.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

I said “Priority. One.”

Not “everything.”

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

The acer I gave my wife has a comparable aluminum case, metal keyboard (with metal keys) and benchmarks right up with a macbook from the period. It cost me $350. It’s also got more I/O connectivity and a better display. There is nothing stylish and innovative about macs. I find them surprisingly bland, generic looking and just uninteresting overall. You’ll fit in very will at starbucks though with one. Now, there is one thing that apple does fairly well and that is support. You can go talk to the dorks at the “genius” bar and they’ll eventually get you something. Apple has better support overall than some of the cheaper machines. At the cost though I can throw away a couple before I get to the cost of one mac. Aside from it being waay overpriced and kinda boring I don’t have any other negatives. The hardware is well tested and is solid. It does what it needs to do reliably. If money was no object I could spend what a mac costs and I could only have one machine for mission critical work it would be a mac panasonic business rugged toughbook

If Apple priced the macbook pros at $400—$800 They would be the one to get and I would feel good buying one. At $1200–2500 No. F*cking. Way.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

^ (Apple) boring?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornament_and_Crime

Adolf Loos says you’re not evolved.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@SecondHandStoke Yes boring, Apple is boring. Simple and smooth is for robotic automotons who are content with simply existing. Variety, ornamentation and color are the spice of life.

I do respect the attempt to simplify the interface but it’s just marketing. There is nothing revolutionary or groundbreaking with their designs despite the cries of fanboys who seem to play that card in their “arguments” as if it really had any weight. Apple is living on borrowed time unless they drop their price points. I’m typing this on a macbook pro (running win 7). I gave them a legitimate try. I really, really wish I had spent my $$ on something else.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

Seriously.

How does the marketing agency get themselves charged with improving the interface?

jerv's avatar

@SecondHandStoke To continue your car example, Apple—(at least under the reign of Jobs)—would replace the steering wheel with a trackball, shave the door handles off, and weld the hood shut. Form and function can go together, but often one is sacrificed for the other.
For many users, function barely matters insofar as their needs are pretty meager. Web surfing, video playback, and internet connectivity is all they need, and anything added to that is undesirable option shock. For them, aesthetics are of high concern.
Others of us appreciate form, but won’t sacrifice function to do it. We may try to look nice as we alter them to our personal preferences, but at the end of the day, function beats form. The computer I use most often isn’t pretty, but it allows me to fully control a 10-meter long 5-axis CNC mill to within 0.00001”/0.001° despite the ugly interface. Ease of use is sacrificed for power and versatility.
While I appreciated a good looking case, I prefer those with easy access, tool-free component mounting, and that otherwise meet my needs for function. And it’s possible to have both looks and function, but Apple generally goes for minimalist art over the sort of functionality I need. In fact, in some instances, they deliberately block the functions I need because it doesn’t fit their artistic vision.
I respect them for some of what they’ve done, but was forced out of the Apple camp many years ago by my need to get stuff done. I was an Apple fanboi until I actually got serious about computers, and don’t regret leaving that world behind,

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

There is no agency, it’s apple. The market is people who want to believe that one device has some “style” and enhances their identity in some artificial way. It’s just a simple matter of delivering a product to them that resembles what they view as “cool.” It’s really just that and that only.

FireMadeFlesh's avatar

@jerv As you’ve probably gathered, I’m not too familiar with the Linux world. I’ll have to take a closer look when I get around to rebuilding my dying Win7 machine.

jerv's avatar

@FireMadeFlesh Many people aren’t. There are relatively few people that are. Heck, there are fairly few that will even take a look at Linux, and most of those only take a quick glance and dismiss it because adopting Linux means leaving the mainstream.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@jerv Expect that to change. Linux is becoming the preferred OS on college campuses especially in the technical programs. It’s only a matter of time before business adopts it for a multitude of reasons.

jerv's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me I fully expect Linux to become more mainstream. I mean, Android managed to become a thing in the mobile market despite not being from Apple or Microsoft. And between Apple’s pricing and Microsoft… being Microsoft, the market is ripe for a shake-up.

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