If you think stores should remain closed on Thanksgiving, because it is a family day, what about July 4th?

Speaking more broadly, I wish all stores (with the exception of SuperMarkets and Gas Stations) should be closed every major holiday and Sundays. Bring back the Blue Laws.

Yes, I’m a dinosaur.

The difference is about the time of year and the type of gathering. Because of the volume of holiday shopping. More employees are likely to be scheduled to work. Thanksgiving is also a destination holiday, people tend to travel to be with their families, so more of a fuss is made. In my experience, people are not as like
Y to travel to be with family on July 4, nor are they likely to shop more than normal.
I realize I only answered the Q in the details.
As for the main Q, I guess it’s just about the way it tends to go.

Thanksgiving is more of a formal holiday with the family gathering and enjoying a meal together. I understand the stores wanting the sales, but I enjoy time with my family.

Historically, Thanksgiving is the US equivalent to the Jewish Sukkot – one of the harvest holidays where we celebrate the bountiful crop. In that respect, it’s based on the change of seasons, and the earth’s agricultural renewal.

July 4, while important, has a history of only 240 years, and is based on some people signing a piece of paper. Although important for the country, it doesn’t have the same anthropological and tribal significance as the harvest holiday.

Also, Thanksgiving is always a Thursday, and many people make it a 4-day weekend, meaning that travel is enabled and families find it easier to get together.

In the end, it’s about the money. If stores could figure out a way to be open on TG Day and not offend people, they would,

Because people don’t travel to see their families on 4th of July. If they’re in the same area they may gather but IME the 4th is more of a party holiday where as Thanksgiving is a formal get together family holiday.

@cookieman currently I’m somewhere where everything is closed on Sundays. It’s friggin horrible. You work all week and then you have the weekend off to go enjoy yourself except there is nothing to do since everything is closed.

They’re both anniversaries of a sort. Thanksgiving is more intimate. Regardless of the tribulations and casualties of the previous year, the survivors assemble together in defiance.of the miseries and combat awaiting them in the year to come. It’s a celebration of survival. The group shakes its collective fist in the face of mortality and declares in unison “we made it. Let’s drink too much and stuff ourselves like pigs!” Little wonder that it’s my favorite holiday! The 4th is the country’s “Thanksgiving”, less intimate, worse food (and less of it), and dominated overall on the national scene by people with whom I’m grateful not to share a meal.

I agree with @cookieman

Last minute needs for grocery items or fuel, otherwise just freaking stay home for ONE lousy day and get off the hamster wheel or compulsive go, go, go, shop til you drop.

I’m English & I don’t care :D

For the record on this thread, I don’t care if they are open or closed. They can do what they want.

You still mad about that @ucme? :D

It’s A Mad Mad Mad Mad World

Under the W!

Correction, the big dubya!

I’m going to visit the states for 4 of July and I’m going to shop my head off.

@trailsillustrated, you must REALLY like to buy fireworks!
;-)

@ucme Don’t you have a July 4th in England?

LOLL!! Of course they do!

@osoraro One I have no interest in yeah, July 13th, now that’s a different story.

What is July 13th? Guy Falkes day?

No, my daughter’s birthday, the Guy Fawkes thing is Nov 5th.

Your daughter’s birthday falls right between two of kid’s birthday, July 12 and July 14.

Well ain’t that a thing :)

It’s a thang. And it means we’re related so PUT ME IN YOUR WILL, PRONTO!

Maam, I respectfully dispute that claim & hereby declare…you don’t get a fucking penny :D

I’m with @cookieman. I’d like to see the shops closed on all public holidays. Not because I think they’re sacred or anything like that. I just think those who work in retail deserve a day off too. Mostly I don’t shop on public holidays but when I have the service was shit because the management put on a skeleton staff to cut costs (penalty rates have to be paid). Then the management whinge about having to pay penalty rates and say it’s not worth their while to open. I figure, if people have to work on a day when the rest of us are on holiday, they deserve to be paid extra. If that’s not something the management want to live with because it hurts their profits, don’t open and let the poor buggers (the workers) have a day off.

Allow me to take a somewhat contrary opinion.

There is a population in the US that needs to work. Having a day off (in an hourly position) means that you’re not being paid for those 8 hours. Meaning that their net income is being damaged by the holiday. While everyone else is celebrating, they’re trying to figure out how they will pay for food next week.

These people would, if the shops were open, be paid their normal wage, or possibly time and a half. Being open, then actually is of benefit to them by not lowering their lifestyle and perhaps adding a little extra.

It’s pretty darned arrogant of people to assume that all people “wish a day off”. Lots of them need every hour of pay they can make.

^ @elbanditoroso As long as they’re not being exploited by management who only have profits at the front of their mind. I have no problems with stores being open, as long as the workers are paid a fair wage for being there. Their normal hourly rate is not a fair wage when everyone else is getting a day off.

Not to mention, if wages are so low that people are living hand-to-mouth, that is of itself a problem. The disparity in wealth between the poor and the rich is growing. The situation would also be less present if there wasn’t a growing casualisation of the workforce. People would then receive pay for their public holiday.

@Earthbound_Misfit – you’re speaking at a different level than the employees. An employee in this situation is thinking far more directly about putting food on the table tomorrow, and tends not think of it as being exploited by management. That level of thought – the perils of the working class – is the province of philosophers, not the average joe serving hamburgers. You and I have the luxury of looking at things in that way, unlike that worker,

Same goes for your comment about “if he’s living hand to mouth that’s a problem”. Sure, it is a problem, but again the average schmuck is concerned with himself and his family and his food bill, and generally isn’t giving a rat’s ass about the development of a classed society in the US.

Again, not to say that these aren’t important, but the worker has more immediate, critical needs and does not have the luxury to engage in expositions about inequality in society.

That doesn’t mean to say we can’t and shouldn’t think about it, speak about it and protest against it. That people being exploited may have no choice but to wear it, doesn’t make it right or that we should ignore it. Are you suggesting ensuring people are paid a fair wage is a philosophical discussion? Or because it doesn’t affect me (or you), fair wages and work conditions shouldn’t be part of the discussion about whether shops should open on public holidays? Your argument seems to be because they’re poor and often powerless, they don’t have the luxury of worrying about fair work conditions. That’s bullshit.

Please also remember that where I live, the minimum wage is a livable wage. Those with a permanent job will be paid their days wage on a public holiday. The crunch is that many retail staff are employed under casual work conditions. The hourly rate is fair, but they aren’t paid for holidays. In saying that, there is a loading paid to ensure people aren’t significantly disadvantaged. Currently, workers are paid penalty rates when they work on a public holiday (casual or permanent workers). Given the choice, retail management would like to remove existing pay conditions from workers to enhance their profits. I’d rather see stores here close under those conditions.

@elbanditoroso When I worked in the stores Thanksgiving was either counted as your day off or a paid day off. Usually, the former. These aren’t M-F jobs. No one missed a day of pay.

FWIW even when I barely made any money at all, I’d rather take the income cut and be able to spend the day with my family and have a good time than make that “extra” 50–60 bucks and be miserable knowing I was missing out on time with friends/family.

To answer this question, I think that Thanksgiving is traditionally about a dinner that’s spend with family and friends. July 4th, while it may be spent with friends or family, is not so much about a specific meal. It may be a cookout, but not so specific like what we think of as a Thanksgiving dinner. Also, like someone said previously, Thanksgiving is a 4 day weekend for many, whereas 4 times out of 7, July 4th is just a one day holiday. Only if it fell on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday would it be part of a long weekend.

I agree with @El_Cadejo. I’d rather miss out on some cash and get to spend the holiday with family regardless. Luckily, I’ve never been in the position where I would be broke if I missed a little pay.

For me, the reason why I never wanted to become a nurse or work in retail was that I didn’t want to have to work holidays and miss out on these things while everyone else was having a good time.

Yeah, I don’t consider the 4th to be a holiday on part with Christmas or Thanksgiving either.

Pretty sure it’s a federal requirement that people have to be paid time and a half when they have to work a holiday. For that reason, many people are happy to work those days. My son and daughter-in-law both work for a retirement home. One, or both, of them has to work every holiday. This year my DIL has to work Thanksgiving day, so we’re having Thanksgiving on Saturday. BUT…the whole family will be there, which hasn’t happened in years. I’m so excited!

@Dutchess_III: Wrong. According to the US Dept Of Labor Website: (cut from it)

An employer who requires or permits an employee to work overtime is generally required to pay the employee premium pay for such overtime work. Employees covered by the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) must receive overtime pay for hours worked in excess of 40 in a workweek of at least one and one-half times their regular rates of pay. The FLSA does not require overtime pay for work on Saturdays, Sundays, holidays, or regular days of rest, unless overtime hours are worked on such days.
The FLSA, with some exceptions, requires bonus payments to be included as part of an employee’s regular rate of pay in computing overtime.
Extra pay for working weekends or nights is a matter of agreement between the employer and the employee (or the employee’s representative). The FLSA does not require extra pay for weekend or night work or double time pay.

I wasn’t always paid overtime on holidays. As a manager if the store was closed that was one if our days off that week. During holiday season we received a comp days when we worked 6 days a week during the weeks between Thanksgiving and Xmas.

I agree with the cookieman. rawr

After seeing answers here and on Facebook it drives home for me that a lot of people don’t care about the significance of the actual holiday, and more about whether there is a tradition of people getting together and if it is an extra long weekend. Does it matter what traditions the individual has? What if July 4th is a big deal for a particular family? If a religious holiday is important the person can get the time off, but not if it is secular? The “American” holidays are the holidays of the country. All those Monday holidays that almost everyone gets, and our children get, retail mommy and daddy’s are often working. That sucks for that family almost as much as Thanksgiving. It’s the nature of retail and people in the business know it.

So many people posting on Facebook and saying on Fluther people should be with their families on thanksgiving. All year long that’s true. The biggest difference about Thanksgiving in my mind is, retail personnel are already exhausted. Tons and tons of merchandise has been pouring in all October and beginning of November. Stockrooms sometimes have merchandise on the floor piled up, extra fixtures are full of merchandise all over the store. Tons of merchandise has been pre-wrapped. Many managers will be forced to works six day weeks Black Friday through Christmas. Some stores it is every week in that time frame. Working on your feet, long hours, and lifting, if you have never worked full time in a physical job you have no idea.

It has nothing to do with Thanksgiving being a long weekend. Most stores require all employees to work Black Friday and Saturday. There is no weekend for retail workers.