Why not a change in child labor laws?

1. Governments are corrupt, bought and controlled by corporations.
It is only a matter of time before restrictions on where children can be forced work are undermined and eventually eliminated. The emergence of sweatshop conditions is only a matter of time.
2. Children are impressionable. Employers would find it easy to intimidate children into doing all kinds of work outside of regulations and restrictions, and get them to shut their mouths about it. Think of child molesting priests telling their victims not to tell anyone. It works. Plus, children do not know their rights and would not know when they would have the right to say no, as well as being too scared to say no.
3. It would interfere with education. At first, just with them being able to do homework, deteriorating their grades. Later, as restrictions are lifted due to corporate lobbying, school attendance itself will be compromised.
4. Their health would be compromised. Child labour causes developmental defects and chronic illness in adulthood, especially when the work is backbreaking.
5. Employers would use it as an excuse to further depress wages. “oh, your kid is working? then you do not need to be paid as much, ha!”
6. It would likely fail to increase parent’s involvement with their children. There is no guarantee that they would work at the same place, at the same time. Hell, there is not even a guarantee that they would work at the same company.
In fact, it would likely further drive children and parents apart.

So my prediction is that the end result would be further fractured families, less educated children, children with chronic illnesses, and a widened gap between the rich and the poor.
All in all, I consider it to be a dreadful idea.

So you propose developing a permanent uneducated underclass of cheap labor?

As a society we are better served by investing in human capital, i.e., getting children well educated.

And look where Robert Blake ended up – killing his wife!

if you’re seriously interested in child labor laws in places other than the USA, spend a little time at this website. You’ll get an eyeful.

Free the children was started by Craig Keilburger when he was 12 yrs.old. He read a newspaper article about a young Pakastani boy who had been in bonded labor in a carpet factory since the age of 4.

This boy became a crusader for children’s rights and consequently murdered at the age of 12.

This prompted young Craig to do more research on child labor practices and to start his project Free The Children. Do a little research on him. It’s a pretty remarkable story of a rather unique young man.

There’s no better place than his website to find out all about the ugly truth behind child labor in countries without the protective laws we have here.

www.freethechildren.com

Childhood is for being a child and learning not starting on a lifelong arc of work.

I cannot say it any better than @ragingloli.

Childhood is the one and only time that a child can and should enjoy being a child. Learning, exploring, imagining, playing.

Enterprising kids can still make money the old fashioned way by lemonade stands, babysitting and yard work, dog walking etc. I agree though that childhood is meant to be a time of learning and relative freedom fro being forced to perform on a daily basis. Jeez…just going to school is a full time job for kids as it is. Personally I don’t think children should be in school more than 5–6 hours a day, just as I wish that adults cold make their living on the same time table.

Spending 40,50, 60 hours a week working/schooling is not healthy. I like the Buddhist philosophy that 6 hours of work a day is more than enough to lead a balanced life.
Our cultures work ethic is far too hardcore IMO.

All the examples you give of chile labor in the past are still permissible today. Kids can still become actors, sell produce, shine shoes, and deliver newspapers, as long as they do it for and by themselves. Child labor laws are to prevent the exploitation of children, not to squelch entrepreneurship. Your kid could set up shining all the neighbor’s as you saw fit to permit her (your place or theirs), but she can’t be hired to our to work the shoeshine stand at the airport.

When I was a kid I almost always had a sideline selling crap.
I was just talking about this. You know that fringe that has the little pom-pom balls on it? I’d get mom to take me to the store and I’d buy a foot or two of several different colors and sizes. Cut the balls off, add some google eyes, artificial flower stamens (twisted paper stick with a red blob on the end) and a tube of glue and I made critters that I’d sell for a quarter or two at school. Probably 3–4th grade.
It wasn’t labor, it was spending money!

In addition to what’s already been said, there is also the case where there are over-involved (or at least, over-messing-with) parents who try to oblige their children to work, often for rather backwards and/or abusive reasons.

Also, just because a child earns some money they are still a child and cannot drive a car, rent an apartment or do much to escape a crappy home life even if they have some extra money.

I’m in America.

I started working at age 14 and it was a gift. I loved it and it brought me out of a bad depression. I should clarify I was very young in my grade, and children basically are their grade. I was in 9th grade at the time.

Before that I babysat. I was 11 when I started babysitting. I was too young at eleven in retrospect. 12 I think is ok if your mom is a few doors down to help if needed.

I certainly don’t want very young children forced to work. I wanted to work. I had fun with the children I baby sat for. When I worked at 14 it was at a cool jeans store with other teenagers and I completely lucked out that most if them didn’t drink or do drugs and it was a great fit for me while my high school friends were off partying.

I think all teens should work sometime during high school, unless they are incredibly goal oriented, with a difficult curriculum, and their work is literally their school work.

There’s a trend to require a certain amount of community service to graduate, @JLeslie, and I think that’s a cool idea as it combines education with giving back to your community in a a quasi-work environment.

You might be of the same era I am: if you wanted a car at 16, you needed to chip in. Dollar for dollar match at the parent-approved time of purchase was popular. I graduated HS in 1979 and the parents that gave their 16 yo’s new cars scot-free were admired by the kids, looked down upon by other parents.

@ibstubro My parents paid for my cars when I was in school. The car, the insurance, and the gas when I wasn’t working. I didn’t work straight through from age 14 on, but the majority of the time I did. The cars they bought me were used, but they were fine. Two altogether, the first one didn’t last long. The second one lasted me 6 years, it was a great car.

When I wanted to go to work when I was 14 my parents were reluctant, because they worried my grades would suffer. The opposite happened, I did better in school. I never had to earn a penny, my parents would have paid for everything, but while I was earning I did pay for all my clothes and a lot of my spending money. My parents also paid for my college in full, so it had nothing to do with my parents making me earn money, it was all about me wanting to earn money, and I was good at my jobs and it made me feel good.

I think a little community service is very nice, but I really don’t compare it to work. Just my personal opinion. Community service to me is about learning about helping others, and the satisfaction it can give us, to help teach we are part of a greater community, and to appreciate what we do have. Not to mention a reality check that people are people. I’m not even sure I believe in forcing a kid to do community service. I remember there was a Q about that a while ago. I’m not even sure what my answer was at the time.

I think of teens working a little as not a bad thing. My impression from this question is that it is referring to children working, not teens.

Below the age of 12 I think is too young. I wouldn’t want children working at that young age, although I don’t want it to be breaking the law if a neighbor pays some neighborhood kid to help shovel some snow or rake up leaves. The teen labor laws specify a limit on hours both time of day and how many. In fact, when I was working I think I was breaking the law, or we wondered about it, because someone had said I can’t work past 9:00pm and my shift ended 9:45 ish. My parents couldnt wait for me to start driving. LOL. Should there be guidelines for children under 14? To protect them? Or, is the neighborhood stuff just under the radar altogether?

I think there a lot of jobs which would be enriching for kids, and mundane for grown ups. As Was pointed out, there are enterprising children. Not all have the ideas though, on how to start themselves. The examples I listed were to illustrate how some children do get ideas on their own, with no workforce available to them. I think there are many jobs children could safely have.
I don’t know what person first started the rumor that childhood is for play. Where I come from, childhood is for learning how to grow up. Retirement is for play. School is great. School should be better. School is imperative. School is not the end all. Remember apprentiships? That was a transition. Lots of kids hated it. Some kids aspired to it. Ben Franklin was cultivated by it.
Summer vacation from school does not exist so kids have some time to pay. School was year round, but so many kids were kept home fr farming chores during summer and early autmn to handle the farm work, schools began “Letting out” to accommodate the work season. Now, so many fewer kids are needed home to farm, but the time is still open. Why shouldn’t it be used for practical experience?
Kids are getting more and more technological, but also bored. Where does that lead? Bad ideas, and criminal activity. Why shouldn’t they work? Has anyone lately asked a kid if they even want to work, r is everyone answering the question according to their own desires for children?
I know many kids who would love to have a job, if someone would point them in a direction. There are manymundane computer apps which need doing that most adults find too mundane. If kids could show how they shine in such areas, it would do a great deal for teir self confidence.
Suppose there were new jobs available, something easy, something which would make work more tolerable for adults, and covered by law, sanctined as a kids only job, and by law, pays less? Suppose kids could work in an office environment, bringing around refreshment.
I am trying to create a think tank here. I really think empoyment would help so many kids/families in depressed areas. I think many kids are suited for work, but while away hours doing what they are told kids should do.
I have no clearly defined pan. I would like for someone to suggest ways it could be beneficial, and productive.
How could it help kids not be just extra flesh hanging around, because many environments in our country of plenty, that is the case.
I look forward to seeing if anyone had the patience and ambition to read this whole response. .

The problem, @Here2_4, is that kids are raised to seek their parent’s approval. Fact is, there are a lot of shitty parents out there, and there are a lot of people willing to make an alliance with shitty parents if their kids can be turned into a buck.

Apprentice now has a positive connotation, but was once “a person legally bound through indenture to a master craftsman in order to learn a trade”. Indenture being “a contract by which a person, as an apprentice, is bound to service”. At one time parents could sell their children into apprenticeships. If we allow young children to work, how do we prevent cash transactions of parents selling their children into slavery.

No, this is one area where I think the US has erred on the proper side of caution.

I read your entire response and the first problem I see is the over-generalized use of the word “children”. There is a HUGE difference between, for instance, a 3rd grader (8yrs. old) and a young High Schooler like a 9th or 10th grader (14 or 15 yrs.old) and the types of responsibilities they can handle yet in the typical types of jobs you describe, you make no distinction between them at all.

A lot of what you describe could be easily handled by a 9th grader but be totally beyond the reach of a 3rd grader.

At 14 yrs. old I was working as a “Mother’s helper” and living away from home because I wanted to and it was perfectly legal according to the laws at the time. And it would still be perfectly legal in most of the USA today.

Child labor laws here are not nearly as restrictive as you choose to present them as. They don’t forbid work as much as regulate it so that kids are not exploited (as they used to be in generations past.)

But I can’t imagine a 3rd. grader being entrusted with the sole responsibility for two young children ages 4 and 10 as I was. And yet, I was still considered a “child” legally speaking.

Also, you seem to be totally unaware of the fact that here in the USA, there are laws allowing 14 yr. olds to work but just with limitations.

And there are exceptions made for kids working in family businesses as well and in poorer inner-city areas this is extremely common for quite young children to be passing out menus and drinks in family restaurants and helping out with the tons of little things required when running a concession at festivals and such. For many years I had my own concession doing balloons and face painting and I worked side by side with MANY families with their kids helping out in countless ways so I know whereof I speak.

I lived and taught in urban areas impacted by poverty and there was no lack of opportunity for kids of any age to make money in all sorts of jobs. But the key was that these were situations where their parents were involved and working also so there was inherent protection from exploitation.

Believe me when I say that in these poverty stricken areas, the only children idle were the ones belonging to parents who were also idle and content to take their check each month with no ambition beyond that.

But for those who wanted it, there was always a thriving “underground economy” for families running a small business on the side and their kids helping out.

However, the apprenticeships of which you write so glowingly are also going on, albeit illegally with no protection for children at all.

Are you aware of how many young children (as young as 5 yrs old) of migrant farm workers are out in those fields doing back breaking jobs for up to 12 hrs. per day because some exemptions are allowed for kids to help out their family.

And many many times these same picking jobs are being done on crops laced with toxic pesticides with the only protection being large trash bags worn with cutouts for head and arms supplied by their “generous” employers.

Are you aware of how much MORE SUSCEPTIBLE the still- undeveloped brains and nervous systems of these young “apprentices” are to the DAMAGE (usually permanent) of these pesticides? I’m guessing probably not.

Even with strong child protective laws here in the USA, this type of abuse by greedy farming corporations is occurring year after year because it’s just so difficult to police?

I’m also sure that you didn’t spend any time at Free The Children to research how horrendously children in third world countries are exploited by not just greedy corporations but their own desperately poor parents as well.

Over there being sold (yes sold) into indentured servitude for years is common. There are five and six year olds sitting on dirt floors dismantling and handling toxic metals all day long. But, it’s glossed over with the rosy label of “apprenticeships”.

You are presenting a very one-sided view of child labor and preferring to see it through rose colored glasses to shield yourself from the ugly reality of what can happen to children in the absence of strong protective child labor laws. This is happening in other parts of the world every day of the week and until you make at least a minimum effort to educate yourself about the details and acknowledge that children are able to be horribly taken advantage of because of their youth, I have little motivation to dialogue with you about providing more opportunities for kids to work here in the US.

You truly do need a reality check. Child labor isn’t all sunshine and roses in other parts of the world. That is a FACT.

@Buttonstc , I would like to commend you for being so well informed in regard to the areas you bring up. That is what I was looking for. However, you seem to be under the impression that I have presented a platform. I have only asked a question, and pressed for details beyond just opinion. No, I did not specify an age. I had a reason for that. Yes, I am aware 14 year olds are legal to work, within restrictions. I did not speak glowingly of apprenticeships. I simply mentioned them.
People are responding in the strangest way here, addressing only that which I have mentioned first, for the most part.
I think you bring up some very valuable, and interesting points. I just wish you had not presented them in such an accusing manner.
I do know of horror stories of children sold into slavery, and not just overseas. There are humans who have ownership of humans right here in our land of the free. Many times teens have been discovered, through various means, living in homes where they have been brought to serve the residents. Sometimes special hidden quarters are built for them, so when there are visitors, they have no idea the child is there. I didn’t ask that question, but one of these days I might.
My question doesn’t have anything to do with child slavery. As you have pointed out, it exists, right now, under our noses, regulations, or no. If I knew of a way to make it all end now, I would.
Also, as you pointed out, I did not specify an age. Age level plays a real division in who could do what, but I didn’t suggest any six year old kids go work with pesticides wearing garbage bags. That was someone else’s idea of a good thing. That is something I think is wrong. Nobody asked me about that, so I didn’t post an opinion on it yet. You accuse me of things I didn’t claim to be okay at all. One thing I did suggest, was computer work. I know nine year olds who could hack Secret Service files if they wanted to. Kids are highly capable with many technological tools.
Employment does not have to mean slavery. It does not have to mean danger.
It seems everyone sees only the potential evils, when in fact, those problems exist now, irregardless of laws.
How very quick we have been to shoot down a thought, without considering it first to see if there are potential plans which could lead to finding possible ways to make various things work. I did stipulate that there are many jobs kids should not, could not do.
Bringing up existing evils has nothing to do with my question. By comparison, you would tell me I cannot post pictures of my kids from when they were under 18, because there are people posting child pornography, and by posting my family pictures, t would cause them to be kidnapped and forced into pornography. Doing something safe, legally,is not evil simply because somebody else does it wrong.
I don’t need a reality check, by the way. I asked a question, that means seeking information. I asked for input from people in other countries, about what labor laws, and illegal labor are like in their country. I never stated or hinted that I had any thoughts about whether that might be rosey, sunshiney, or not. I said nothing about other countries at all. I invited information, and nothing else. Nothing else.

As I said, you have very good information, but there is no reason to go to war with me. I am not a slavery advocate. It is obvious you have no concept of a safe work environment ever existing, and that is fine. My question was about safe work environments, and child employability, and how it might be beneficial. I did not suggest children be sold, beaten, maimed, poisoned, or otherwise harmed. I thought someone might be innovative, and think of some plausible scenarios. Instead I got the wide world of child abuse channel on the I have to fight all thoughts not my own cable network.

I am more educated than you give me credit for. The reason you think I don’t know about “bad stuff” is because that is not the subject. I am not stupid, I am just talking about a different subject than you. Since I’m the one who brought up the subject, I can state with confidence and clarity, that you are wrong in assuming what I do and don’t know. I painted no lovely picture to cover any wrongdoing. The wrongdoing is simply a different subject. See instead, child abuse questions, and child slavery, subheading, wrong ways to do stuff.

I do want to thank you for the information you have taken the time to type up. The subject of misusing children seems to be a very emotional issue for you. I hope you are in a position to help some of those kids, because they could use some advocates with passion for their plights. I am not in a position to help any of them, but if I were, I would positively want you with me, and actively rescuing them. Please continue to be their advocate. Just please, don’t accuse me of desiring to ignore them, or further their suffering. I am trying to seek some positive aspects, completely unrelated to the awful realities we know exist.
Below are links to articles about some terrible slavery truths. They don’t pertain to my question at all, but, they are very revealing. If anyone is interested in knowing more, these are a start on the way to the tip of the iceberg. Yes, I know about such things. It is not what my question is about, though.
http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=94
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/10/06/971401/girls-human-trafficking-and-modern-slavery-in-america/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/opinion/slavery-isnt-a-thing-of-the-past.html?_r=0
http://money.cnn.com/2013/11/21/news/economy/human-trafficking-slave/

@ibstubro Apprenticeships now are often a positive relationship, as you said, and I think it is a great thing for the US and other countries to employ as a legitamate way to learn a trade. My high school had some sort of program where kids could take a half day of school and then they worked the other half and it was like an apprenticeship. I think they even earned high school credit maybe, I don’t remember. I also think maybe it was formalized and recognized by the state somehow. I might be wrong about it, but that was my impression.

@Buttonstc Your answer takes what I was thinking further, and I am glad you wrote what you did. Child labor laws need to be there to regulate, but they don’t necessarily need to forbid all types of work altgether. The regulations should fit into making legal what makes sense, and what endangers children should be made illegal. We can’t leave it up to companies and parents, we need to make some things illegal.

@Here2_4 I don’t know about school being year round in years past, I never heard of that, but I do know we were on an agriculture calendar. When I went to college at Michigan state (nicknamed Moo U back in the day) We started school around Setember 22. Late! Later than most schools. But, we had tons of farmers at our school. We also were a trimester school, rather than a semester school. When I first arrived I thought it was so odd, and I also though how do these kids do semesters abroad? The whole world functions on semesters. Ironically, Michigan State now starts early September, is on a semester schedule, and has one of the largest opportunities of education abraod in the nation. In Plant city, FL and surrounding areas the children k-12 used to have a strawberry school year. Their break was in the fall to do the berry picking. Then about 40–50 years ago they changed it so the school year lined up with the rest of the nation.

There is year round school options in a lot of cities. The kids still go the same amount of days (a lot ofmpeople think year round means more days at school). They get two weeks off between each term and a much shorter summer break then the regularly scheduled school year. I think that is a great idea. If gives parents more options for vacations and children are not away from their studies for so long. It does however make it harder to have a summer job or for parents to schedule after school care if they need to for their kids.

School year and allowing children to work and dealing with both parents working is a lot of balls in the air that need to be juggled. In years past very young children were home alone or playing in the streets or fields at young ages and no one was horrified by it. My sister and I were home alone at ages 7 and 10. My dad used to go off and play with his friends afterschool and their wasn’t constant parental supervision. He didn’t even realize my sister and I would have been called latchkey kids, when that term was being used. I didn’t, and still don’t identify with that term, even though parents nowadays would be horrified we were so little and home alone. My sister does identify with it, maybe because she was younger than I was. My dad worked at a very young age here and there. His family was extremely poor. Not younger than 12 as far as I know, but maybe he did, I don’t know. He was very young in school, so was I, he graduated at 16, so if his 8th grade peers had some small jobs and he got one too, he would have been 12.

I kind of veered off a little from the main questions, but all of it fits together I think. School, work, and expectations of children change as we evolve as a society and technology, and many other things.

@JLeslie , your mention of school is not off topic.
I have here, http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtid=2&psid=3536 a link describing the history of changes in schooling, and how that affected work potential for both kids and parents. There is also a lot more, dealing with the struggles of schools, how they should be financed, who should be able/expected to attend. Kids used to attend college at the age of 12. Schools, and other aspects of life for children have evolved over the years, going back as far as the seventeenth century.
There was a time, at least once in the history of this country, that very poor families wanted to have labor schools available, making their kids a part of an organized, government sanctioned learning environment where their children could earn a wage.
The link is very interesting reading, I think.
Evolution of practices is how we improve what isn’t currently working, or even unavailable. I am trying to think innovatively and hope to see ways changes could be made for the better. I know the evils. I want to know if anyone has ideas how things have changed, or could change to make employment possible for children without putting them in danger. Employment is not always evil. I have always enjoyed being employed, even when I didn’t care much for the job I was doing at the time. I think we send a bad message to kids when we say work is bad for them, and they don’t have to deal with that part of life until they are grown.
Things change. Things stop being good when we outgrow them. Maybe if kids attended schools where they could also be employed, maybe to catalog information, or maybe something which doesn’t currently exist, but should, to meet the needs of a changing environment.
I am simply musing. Isn’t there an idea floating around, which would make employable skills kids possess make them more educated, more adaptive, less likely to drop out, less likely to be shot while playing unsupervised?
I don’t intend for my question to solve the ails of the world. I just want to know why it can’t be considered, and maybe evolve to a workable idea.
@JLeslie , I did not mean to ignore your comments regarding your own employment as a teen. I think it shows you are one of the driven people who thrive on taking part in life, in the world, and I love that you were motivated.
Regarding apprenticeship, I wonder…
Would it be feasible to, instead of paying the parents, award a percentage to the family, and the remainder placed in a trust for the child to have upon reaching the age of majority?
Really, I would like to here any ideas anyone might have that would work, would maybe work,or has been tried with the best of intentions but did not work.
@ibstubro , I too am aware of kids who help or have with family business. There are many others I know, or have known who would jump at the chance to do the same. The should grow up lazy because that is how their parents live?

Apprenticeships grew up from the class that were skilled laborers. Shoe makers, blacksmiths, barrel makers, carpenters, things where someone could not bury their nose in books or write papers to learn. Skills that you needed to watch and do and be taught, and use your hands to perfect. Now that we don’t have many people employed in those fields, I am not sure how valuable an apprenticeship program would be.

Since I’m American, I wasn’t really raised in the frame of mind that kids help with the family wealth. I did know some people raised that way, but my parents would have been horrified to ask me to contribute to paying rent when I was a child.

In my mind apprenticeship is a way for someone to learn a trade, not bring money to be shared with the family. Not that I am completely against the concept of the family pulling together financially, but the room for abuse of children seems all too easy.

My mom thought it was horrible when parents expected an older child to take care of younger children. My parents also were not of the mind that kids need to do chores, they felt you need to do all that stuff when you’re an adult, childhood is for playing and learning. I didn’t have any chores as a child, except to keep my own room clean. I did help set the table here and there and especially during extended family dinners like Passover, because I wanted to, or because my grandma decided to teach me about it that day. Never was I expected to do it like a chore.

On farms, especially years past, it was very common to want and have a large family where the kids helped with the chores of the farm. They birthed laborers basically.

My best friend, who I have known since I was little, came from a large family and there was not much money for anything other than necessities. If they wanted clothes, they were either from thrift shops or the kids had to earn money (as teens). My friend used to clean houses, starting at age 14. What happened to her seems like exploitation as she had to babysit, clean the houses, using harsh chemicals for not a lot of money (we’re talking late 1970’s). The women who she worked for got way more out of her than she got paid. My mother always said she did not want me doing work like that, because she didn’t want me getting that mentality like I am here to serve people and do their crap work.

”@ibstubro , I too am aware of kids who help or have with family business. There are many others I know, or have known who would jump at the chance to do the same. The should grow up lazy because that is how their parents live?”

I’m not aware of mentioning family business, @Here2_4.
I don’t believe the current laws require kids to be lazy, and I don’t think they prevent kids from working. As I said, your daughter could line out everyone in your immediate area for a paid shoe shine. Under a certain age, however, she cannot be employed at a shoe shine stand. Under a certain age, she is only employed at will, the will being hers, rather than someone else’s.

I try to encourage any kid trying to raise money for themselves. I once stopped at a yard sale, just as it was starting to sprinkle. The 3 little girls had spent the evening baking cookies, and now dad’s yard sale was getting rained out. I bought the cookies out, and passed them around all day.
I’ve had my yard mowed when I would as soon do it myself. Ditto car wash, snow shoveling, etc. solely because it was a young kid. We use kids at the auction. I think the girl that carries the tickets from the clerk to the cashier started at 10–11. We’ve had ring help start before they could drive @16. They get paid the same as the adults.