Do you think there is a necessary issue between cops and blacks?

The media focuses on anything on a sensationalist nature.
I think there certainly can be racism involved at times, however, I think MOST of the time cops that work the sleaziest and most crime ridden areas in any major city are more about protecting themselves and others when it comes to potential threat. Most of us are clueless about what it’s like to be a cop in some of the most violence and crime ridden areas in the country. I’d last about one hour in a ghetto, whatever color ghetto it was. Bottom line, sure there are unstable, racist and trigger happy cops but if someone is stupid enough to flash a weapon or flat out try and attack a cop, well….kinda shooting themselves in their own foot. lol

It’s complicated from what I can tell.

Primarily we have police forces who have bad training weighted toward SWAT-style tactics (largely due to Fed training support being earmarked for that kind of thing) to the detriment of good old cop-on-the-beat, member-of-the-community training.
This creates a them/us, trigger-happy attitude in police -because they are trained that way.
The militarized cops are reactive, don’t spend sufficient time assessing the situation, and in a militarized fashion don’t value the lives of the people around them the way they should.

Also, there is a higher likelihood in some cities for blacks to have grown up with a combative attitude toward cops and plenty of cops get shot by minorities. And that makes cops understandably wary.

And there is just plain racism out there, no doubt about it.

Racism is so deeply rooted in this country. Just find some black communities (and others) and see what you find. You have to actually know black people to know what they go through.

And as far as that 12 year old is concerned, the cop that murdered him was going to be fired from another police department because of being unstable and showing bad firearm usage. He lied to get on the police force. He is a straight up murderer.

Racial profiling exists. Ex cops have come forward and said so. You look it up. Try finding out the other side of the story.

Just like the guy who was questioned for walking with his hands in his pockets. The cop claims that was probable cause. So now it is probable cause to walk while black.

The racist police (which is most of them) in his country need to be disarmed. More people in Utah have been killed by police in the last five years than by gangs or by drug violence.

No. Only between people of different color, religions, ethnicities, etc. Maybe someday, if man survives long enough, we will all be civilized.
My Grandfather once made this observation: ” There is no such thing as equality. ” One race, religion, etc., has been top dog and the other guy wants his chance to be top dog. And so, like it or not, the fight goes on.

In the case you cite (if this is the incident that occurred recently in Cleveland), don’t generalize too much about “the cops”. It seems likely that this was a case of a single cop who should never have been hired in the first place. (You could blame “the cops” in a broad way to include the administration of the police department, the trainers who passed the kid through the system, and the department officials who put him on the street, but it would not be accurate to blame rank-and-file officers for the wholly irresponsible act of a single cop. Who also happened to be black, I believe.)

The worse problem that I see is the trend toward over-protection of the police by hyper militarized tactics, over-aggressive takedowns and arrests, and the hair-trigger mentality that seems to be part of many departments’ training these days. In addition, something that has always existed in police departments is a strong us-against-them mentality that tends to close ranks around truly bad actors and protect them at all costs. This tends to make otherwise good cops turn bad as they protect other cops that even they know are wrong, are criminal or otherwise unfit for the job – but whom they rely on to protect themselves, too.

That seems to be a common enough human problem, but one that is highly exacerbated by the fact that cops have life-and-death power at their fingertips day in and day out, and – to be fair to them – they do have a stressful job and they do see many people at their worst day in and day out, as well.

Some racism exists in all places at all times, but I don’t think that race is a primary factor in the bad acts of some cops. However, the fact that blacks are over-represented in prisons is not simply explained by racism alone. Black-on-black crime is at the highest rate of all crime when categorized by the races of perpetrator and victim, and cops have to go to where the crime is occurring or has occurred, so a lot of police interactions happen between them and blacks, and … shit happens.

Yeah, there’s racism among the police, but that’s symptomatic of a larger societal issue. It’s not even necessarily overt racism, but more ingrained, more subconscious. Deny it all we want, but generally speaking blacks are viewed with more suspicion than whites. And then there’s the larger problem of our police forces being stocked with militarized, over-aggressive assholes with bad tempers who only understand how to force compliance rather than defuse a situation.

Exceptions are not rules. Blacks are the main issue, not cops. Empirical evidence, for example shows black boys were more likely to display early conduct problems and low academic achievement and experience poor parent–child communication, peer delinquency, and neighborhood problems, which increased their risk for juvenile arrest.link

Great job grac3alot. You googled and picked a sentence that fit your preconceived notion. Next time try reading the entire fucking article you link to. It doesn’t fit your skin color is the problem attitude you twat.

@grac3alot “Blacks are the main issue, not cops.” Oh, lord, that’s such a simplistic view. It doesn’t take into account any of the outside factors of why things might be different. Institutionalized racism is a huge part of them problem, as it’s designed, specifically, to keep minorities where they are, so that it is not as easy for them to achieve the goals or obtain the things they want in life.

Like, for example, the stereotype that all Native Americans are alcoholics. While it might be factually true that a high number of them are, guess what? The US government (hint hint: white men) intended for that exact thing to happen, because it makes Native Americans look “bad” in the eyes of everyone else, and because it also kept them exactly where white men wanted them to be – which is powerless.

I’m sorry that your view of the world is so simple, because you’re missing a lot of the big picture.

I think there is definitely some racism, or let’s say profiling. I think most police officers are not racist, but I think if they work the beat in neighborhoods with a lot of crime and are in war mode constantly, meaning they are on defense for their lives enough times in a row, they might react faster, or be more wary, with a person they associate as more likely to be a criminal.

I have some empathy for the stress and position cops are in, but there are obviously cases where cops are just flat out wrong or possibly reacted too quickly.

I don’t think it is always as simple as just being racist, but I am sure on occasion it is that simple.

I don’t know anything about the incident of the boy in a store. Did the cops tell the kid to put down the gun? Or, they just came up on the kid and shot him?

I do agree black people are treated differently in the justice system in terms of sentencing, and I think they likely are profiled so they are more at risk if being caught doing something wrong (and sometimes they are doing nothing wrong, but they are at risk for being questioned or harassed by authorities because of their skin color). Thing is, we also have to keep in mind that if they are doing something criminal then they are.

The case in NY is just unbelievable to me. The guy selling the cigarettes who died in a choke hold? Very upsetting this could happen. Maybe there are details I don’t understand? Was he also suspected in some other more serious crime?

I don’t think it is just race. It’s also place and circumstance. Is the area crime ridden? Even in crime ridden areas I think most people living there are not committing crimes, but cops see the worst of it.

I think it is very complicated.

If we didn’t have so many guns in the US there would be less likelihood a kid would be shot, because he is carrying a gun. I was shocked when I found out about 5 years ago that bb guns look like real guns. I never knew that before.

@DrasticDreamer I disagree with you about the Native American situation. Native Americans can get free college educations. They can get educated and leave the reservation. They could stay on the reservation after getting their education and do things to improve those “neighborhoods.” Or, if they want the reservations to be a bubble where they live in a more rural or primitive way, closer to the land and nature, they certainly could strive for maintaining that. They are not locked in on the reservation, they have all of America at their disposal. It calls into question if hand outs over time actually hurt the very community we try to help? It’s very complicated.

I think what the Europeans did to Native Americans is awful, so I am not ignoring that and I think there is reason to preserve lands for Native Americans and I am fine spending tax money to help the community. Breaking the cycle if poverty is the real question for Americans of every culture and race.

You miss the point, though. It’s harder for minorities to achieve the same things, period, because that is exactly how it was intended to be. It’s not as simple as people being too lazy to better their lives.

I’m not saying that there aren’t ways, that there aren’t opportunities. But what I am saying is that, even now, they are fighting against a system that was designed to keep minorities down. Even “proper English” is a part of institutionalized racism – which most (typically white people) don’t even realize. My point is that it is rarely as simple as a lot of privileged people think it is, and racism is everywhere.

(That’s why I differentiate and say “institutionalized” – because once it’s been institutionalized, it’s made to seem normal and rational, which is the whole idea behind it, and only benefits those (white men, especially) already in power.)

Cops aren’t racist, but racism is real. I’m one of those uncle tom blacks that all the white people love, grew up in a nice white neighborhood and I was still thrown out of a houseparty when I was a teenager for being black. It was an isolated incident but it seriously messed with my head and feelings for a long time.

Even if you’re a decent respectful person it’s not enough. Being black just fucking sucks and that’s how it is.

@DrasticDreamer I agree it isn’t as simple as saying people are lazy. I would never use the word lazy, it’s way more complicated. I also agree that there are people in power who help to design a system where they stay rich and get richer and others stay poor. But, there also are cultural things within poor communities that hurt the people within the communities. What would you do to improve the situation. I think too often liberal ideas to help don’t have expected results. I consider myself liberal, so I don’t use that word negatively.

My biggest gripe is low pay. I think everyone should be able to live on their income if they work a full time job. If we had that it would help, but I think low wages is one of the things in the system that keeps the poor poor, taxes high, and generations of people living on government services.

1. I’m a white guy who has always lived in middle-class suburbia. The cops scare the shit out of me. I have had plenty of terrifying experiences with them.
2. Racism is a thing.

1 + 2 = I can only imagine what it must feel like to live in this country without the advantage of being pale-skinned.

#crimingwhilewhite

Do you have any idea how realistic looking the airsoft guns are? Here is an example of the H&K MP5. Ten feet away you cannot tell the difference. The orange front piece is supposed to show it is the toy. That was removed to make the gun look more realistic!
Do you think the police can wait to tell?
The kid was pointing it at people! Are they supposed to know it is a “toy”?
When the cops say: Put your hands up!” YOU PUT YOUR HANDS UP!!!

That was not a Black White thing. It was a realistic looking gun being handled by a stupid kid who did not listen.
Years ago I had a discussion with an officer and showed him a Glock 17 replica. He said: “If I saw you with that I would shoot you!” I am a middle aged white guy.

@LuckyGuy “Do you think the police can wait to tell?”

If this was a white 12-year old, yeah, I think they would. That is what people are protesting. Honestly, I don’t understand why people don’t get this.

@DrasticDreamer
So you’re saying that the reason blacks display early conduct problems and low academic achievement and experience poor parent–child communication, peer delinquency, and neighborhood problems is because of our system?

And where is your peer-reviewed evidence for this claim? So far all I heard were some made up stories.

And I don’t see how your claim changes the fact that the issue between blacks and cops is a black issue, not a racist one?

I hope there was more context in that conversation, @LuckyGuy. Why should a cop shoot anyone “if [he] saw someone with” a weapon?

@LuckyGuy The cops didn’t say “put your hands up” They got out of the car and started shooting to kill. They lied about that. And the cop wasn’t a rookie, he was new to the force because h was almost fired from the last department he worked for.

As a tweet said, “If Officer Pantaleon had killed a woman on Park Avenue using a chokehold, he be tried and convicted and on his way to prison by now.”

Cops are profiling blacks who have the hip hop mentality. If you’re a black guy and you’re dressed like you’re going to work, cops don’t fuck with you. It’s the black people who are brainwashed my rap music that the cops are going after.

Maybe someday black people will realize that their rapper idols are getting rich off holding their community back.

@Esteban1 Sorry, you are full of shit. Black men dressed in suit and tie and on their way to work get stopped and pulled over and questioned all the time. A well dressed black man is considered by police as a drug kingpin. If he drives a nice car, he is considered a drug dealer or a pimp. Happens all the time all over the United States.

@Esteban1 What were the cops profiling before hip hop?

Ignorance

Okay. I’m not sure my opinion is going to matter much, but who knows maybe it will. I’ve decided to share it. :)
First, I’d like to mention I didn’t read all the comments, I merely skimmed through them. Although, I guess that’s not really important because I’m here to share my thoughts on the matter with chelle21689.
So, I guess its relevant that I mention I have white(-r) skin. I’m mostly of European and Brazilian background. My mother doesn’t have black skin, but she does have a dark tan skin tone. Her father had a dark tan skin tone. Mother… not so much.
People. There’s racism everywhere. Everywhere you go, any country. Some people are racist. Those who aren’t, aren’t. I think we’ve started loosing sight of what’s really important here.
(In my opinion, may I remind you) We’re focusing on details that don’t matter. Its not the color of the persons skin that made the difference. Its the violence. No matter if it was a black against black, white against white, white against black, or black against white. Or even if it was the purple and pink striped killed the blue and yellow polka dot elephant!
We are seeing violence everywhere. People are being raised to believe lies. Lies that others started to purposely make people hate one another. Children are raised in broken homes. Teens are thrown in a world where many values have been either thrown out or twisted. You don’t fight violence with violence. Physical or verbal. I don’t even see the point in others debating about this. If you see injustice where you live, stop it. If you see hate, go love someone. If you see those who are struggling, help them. Or at the very least go find someone that can help.
Okay, I’m done. I’m not hating on anyone. Or saying that I’m any better then they are. I struggle with many issues myself. All I’m saying is, don’t loose who you are because everyone else is becoming lost in the deception. In the pure contaminated, corrupt world. Not just America. The entire world is corrupt and America is probably one of the least concerns.

I just wanted to share about some of my friends as well.

When I was in 3 or 4th grade I had a black friend. I’m not racist, she just had black skin. It didn’t bother me. She wasn’t my best friend, but she was a very close friend of mine. She loved getting and giving hugs. She was very tall, I’ve always been on the short side. I remember one particular time when she played with my hair. Its kinda funny. My mother used to braid my hair in a big braid that when I turned around I would slap other people across the face. (Some times on purpose. Hahaha.) I didn’t know her well, and I’ve moved since then, so I don’t know her at all anymore. But, if I ever heard that she had been shot, whether by someone with black, white or even purple skin I would be.. shocked. I’d probably cry.
I had another black friend at the time. Her name was Victoria. My name, my real name is Victorya. I would only see her on the bus because she was older than me. We used to sit and color pictures she would bring. I remember that she was very good at art. And she loved ghost stories. I remember her telling me all these crazy myths and tales.
I don’t know either of them any more which is saddening. I know that I’ve never had many black friends and still don’t. I don’t understand why either. I currently have another friend (she’s black), Kayla who at our church Christmas party smashed a cupcake in my face. (So funny!)

Tootles, and God bless!
(Please don’t hate me!)

@dappled_leaves @zenvelo I am not so sure the police can afford to be selective. The Adam Lanza incident has ended the tolerance for kids with guns. If someone is walking on the street pointing what looks like an MP5 at people the incident will end badly for the “pretender”.
I’m willing to bet a white woman walking on Park Ave would be taken down just as quickly. Death by cop.
Here’s an experiment to prove the point. Try it and let us know how it works out for you. Why are you not willing to do it? Are you afraid of getting shot? You betcha’!
That is how it is.

@LuckyGuy Yes, you get shot by police first. Even if you are a kid in a park. Just drive up and start blasting way.

Except if you are white and open carry in a Starbucks. Then you don’t get bothered.

@LuckyGuy – you’re a smart guy (don’t blush yet)...

What’s an approximate ratio of 12-year old (or we’ll just say middle school children) who will carry a toy gun vs. those with a real gun?

100 to 1? 1000 to 1? 10,000 to 1?

Would it be safe to say every major city in America has a kid with a gun in a park every “good weather” day?

If I show up on Park Avenue with a visible gun, I’m out of place. A child in a park with a toy gun is pretty much like a child in the park with baseball bat.

@funkdaddy Did you see what the gun looked like? NOTHING about it looked like a toy.
It looked 100% real. Even the dayglo orange telltale was removed. Adam Lanza’s gun looked real too – it was.
The police call said “someone with a gun”. (heresay since I was not there.) What do you think is going through the officer’s mind as he approaches the scene? The radio call was not “a kid with a fake gun”. The 911 operator was told by the caller that it might be fake.
Would you have walked up the the kid if he was holding the gun I linked to above? Or would you think it was real?

If the kid was holding a blue, yellow, and red plastic super-soaker that would not be out of place. BUT he was holding a look-alike replica of a lethal weapon and was pointing at people.

@LuckyGuy So you blast a kid first (two seconds after the cop got out of the car) and you don’t say “get your hands up!”?

You can find an example of virtually any point you want to make. Black shoots white, white shoots black, native American shoots kids, etc. One thing is for sure, if you’re committing a crime, the cops are not your friend regardless of your skin color. It seems like if there is some systemic problem with racism in the police force, we should be able to find an example where the victim is not breaking the law.

@Blackberry

I really appreciate you and your comment. I don’t think you’re an Uncle Tom black. If you were you would not be enlightened to your position. I’m not Anglo, but I look like it. All my friends growing up were obviously not Anglo. I have been a witness to so much hate and discrimination. Keep on keeping on.

@LuckyGuy – he pointed it at pedestrians and they walked right by him… only the police officer decided it was a credible threat. From his waistband. Would the orange tip have helped him?

So judging from people who actually walked directly past him, I would say I probably would have walked up to him. Would you have shot him? Would a reasonable person?

My understanding is that this is Adam Lanza’s gun. He was 20 years old. An adult. He walked into a school with a plan and shot people. He didn’t sit in a park by himself. I don’t really think it’s a good parallel even for the information that the officers had before arriving.

I also don’t understand the common defense of

“the officer couldn’t have known”...
– he was 12
– he had a toy gun
– he didn’t want to (and couldn’t) have hurt anyone

They could have known if they had approached the situation carefully. They keep saying their job is dangerous, which I agree with, so how about using some care? What changes if they pull up on the street? If this should be treated like a school shooting that you keep comparing it to, why not send multiple cars?

I’d guess it was seen as a low risk chance for that new officer to get some real life experience. I’d guess his training officer was mortified with what happened. I’d guess the kid was going to drop the gun on the ground and get it away from himself, just like the police recommend. We’ll know more at some point, but the only good that can come of it is if police realize they already have the upper hand in almost every situation. They don’t have to shoot first and ask questions later. Questions are a great place to start.

@grac3alot One of the earliest disparities, and one of the most crucial for equal opportunity, begins with schools and education. Schools that are predominantly minority receive less federal spending than predominantly white schools, which automatically puts minorities at a disadvantage. http://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/UnequalEduation.pdf

And don’t try to make the argument that parents could simply send their children to better schools, because it’s not economically feasible for them to be able to afford to move out of whatever neighborhood they’re in, because maybe… I dunno… their education didn’t afford them the same opportunity to get a better job?

@zenvelo I’m not a cop, but when I worked in retail and two or more guys walked in the store and split up in a department and had in baggy clothes I called security. Black, white, Hispanic, it didn’t matter. If statistically black men are more likely to wear those clothes I would be calling security disproportionately to follow them.

Where I worked the area was very white, we didn’t have many black people in the store in general. Not that it matters. My point is clothes sure as hell matter in certain circumstances, and so if that ethnicity chooses those clothes and to act in a way that triggers suspicion then too bad, they are being watched.

Thanks for great thought provoking answers. Many if you have valid points and I agree

@JLeslie

What store was that? I’d like to know so that I never shop there.

@JLeslie I never brought up clothes, but since you did, a former friend was taking the Zimmerman side in the Trayvon Martin murder, and said “if he hadn’t been dressed like a thug with his hoodie up, he probably wouldn’t have been shot.”

My response was, he was dressed like half the kids at my son’s high school which is mostly white, in a high income town where 80% of eth school goes son to four year colleges.

What’s your suspicion about kids that wear the kids fashion?

@zenvelo You talked about well dressed black men. First if all you might not see the difference between the fashion of a king pen and a Wall Street suit, but there usually is a difference. Moreover, as I said, place and actions factor in.

My aunt was attacked by a middle aged white guy, well groomed, and neatly dressed in a sweat outfit. The outfits many many people wore back then that was not associated with hoodlums in any way. Most people I know who have been attacked in some way weren’t attacked by a black man. If you look on old Q’s I’m not more afraid of black men than white men in general, nor do I assume black men are criminals.

The thing about the store is not that they look like hoodlums, it’s that if their clothes are baggy and the people separate when in the store or department, and especially if one is trying to occupy me—the other guy has a likelihood he is shoving merchandise down his pants! It happens all the time. His race doesn’t matter. I am not saying the majority of men dressed like that are thieves, I’m saying enough people dressed like that with suspicious behavior do steal so we watch them.

@zenvolo Neither you nor I (nor 99.999% of the people talking about the case, including every garbage spewing “Reverend” crawling out of the woodwork to grab some limelight) know what happened. Some say the kid was taking the gun out and putting it away and hiding it as people walked by. Some said they were afraid. I do not know what the police told him. “Freeze!” “Hands Up!” “Get down on the ground!” Who knows?
This is why we citizens need to approve the budget for police body cameras.

If we keep second guessing and criticizing police they will begin to take the easy way out and just ignore bad situations. They will not be there when we need them – and the criminals will know it.

Did you see what Charles Barkley said about it?

@JLeslie That is an interesting quote.

“The notion that white cops are out there just killing black people – that’s ridiculous. That’s just flat-out ridiculous,” the TNT basketball analyst told CNN. “I challenge any black person to try to make that point. Cops are actually awesome. They are the only thing in the ghetto between this place being the wild, wild west. So this notion that cops are out there just killing black men is ridiculous and I hate that narrative coming out of this entire situation.”

We have very low crime here. (Actually one of the lowest in the country.)
Some group rand the statitics and saw that the arrest rate here was 10? 15? times the proportion of Blacks living in the community. They implied that the police were targeting Blacks.
The police chief said his officers respond to calls to 911 from residents, store owners and citizens. They arrest the people involved. If there is a fight, everyone gets arrested. If a store is being robbed they arrest the perp. Period! They have no opportunity to select one race over the other. If that is the way the numbers shake out, that is the way they shake out. Period.

By the way I got pulled over (and ticketed) by a state police officer for driving with blacked out windows. Do you think they did that because they thought I was black? I sure don’t.

@LuckyGuy Please view the video here

*Note: the video shows the shooting.

The police pulled up, guns drawn and shot him with no attempt at warning.

I’ll pass along one small data point from the area. As I mentioned the crime rate here is low. an acquaintance lives in a nearby town. .with similar stats but not quite as good as mine. A minority family moved in to the house next to him. No problem. Everyone is friendly and trusting. We don’t lock doors, etc. Soon, houses on the street started being robbed. Cars were being robbed of accessories and change. My friend’s house was entered and robbed! He decided to sit on his front porch with his shotgun on his lap in the direction of the new neighbor’s house. Every time he saw them he would sit with his gun.Never saying a word. Ridiculous.
The minority family called police saying they felt threatened and he was being racist. The police came. He was on his property, was not breaking the law, never brandished or aimed at them. The family said the police were being racist and should arrest him. It got louder and louder until they got into an altercation and ended up being arrested.
Their car had many of the stolen items inside and one of the “kids” was charged with the thefts. They were trying to pull the race card and it didn’t work.

(@zenvelo I’ll look at that video now. I was working on the above answer when yours popped up. Thanks!)

@zenvelo Thanks! I just watched the video. (3 times, actually)
I can’t tell if there was a warning or not. Were they using their mic and bull horn while parked off camera to the right? Were they yelling at him to put his hands up and when he reached, the driver stomped the gas and drove up the 30 ft. Did they tell him to drop it? or put hands up? Were they communicating to him with the bullhorn? He made no attempt to run and had just got up from sitting on the bench. I assume (with no data) they were communicating with him via bullhorn and the safety of their car when he got up. “Put down the weapon!” After he went down they put the car between them, meaning they thought he was still a threat even after he was down.
This all took place over a long time.

As an aside. It is 2014 Why are these cameras so crappy? There is no sound. ½ frame rate, low res. The body cameras should be like GoPros.

@LuckyGuy “If we keep second guessing and criticizing police they will begin to take the easy way out and just ignore bad situations. They will not be there when we need them – and the criminals will know it.”

It’s pretty rare that police are actually there when citizens need them in the first place. By the time the police arrive it’s usually after the fact.

@LuckyGuy

No, that was first contact. They pulled up to “cut off his escape path”. They didn’t try anything from a distance.

From the Cleveland Police source

There is no audio but Tomba said Loehmann, who was in the passenger seat and who had been on the force only since March, yelled at the boy three times to show his hands as the car neared the gazebo.

The time stamp is in the lower right of the video on the linked page as well. It’s about real time, despite the jumpy appearance.

So try saying anything of meaning three times from the time the car gets in front of him until the boy is shot. Try “show me your hands”... I can’t talk that fast.

I also can’t expect someone to hear me yelling out of the window of a moving car without putting my head outside and I can’t have my head out the window of the car while I’m opening the door. Try yelling at someone at 5mph inside the car. All they’ll hear is noise if they hear you at all.

@funkdaddy Doesn’t every car have a PA (public address) system? You know…, the ones the cops use when they yell at you while driving 60 mph on the highway to tell you to pull over. (Before they give you a ticket for driving with dark tinted windows even though the truck was build that way legally in Texas!) When they turn that PA on you can hear it for a mile! Pulling a car in front of an agile, healthy suspect to cut of an escape path only works if there is no escape. According to my view it looks like there were plenty of opportunities for the kid to escape. He could easily have run in the opposite direction of the car. *Assumption alert!: He didn’t run from the car because he was not afraid or thought he was doing what was asked. *Assumption alert!: There was plenty of time to yell show me your hands,. show me your hands or whatever, while the car is idling off screen. The kid got up from the seating position and walked to the front of the gazebo.
*Assumption alert!: They told him to “show me your hands!” while he was still sitting down. He got up to meet the car and was likely going to pull it out to show it was fake.

@LuckyGuy “Doesn’t every car have a PA (public address) system?”

No. The equipment installed on a police vehicle can vary quite a lot from one department to another, and often times even within the same department. I cannot recall the last time I heard a police car utilize a loudspeaker.

@Darth_Algar You wrote: “I cannot recall the the last time I heard a police car utilize a loudspeaker.” That is because you were not pulled over on the highway – or you pulled over immediately and there was no need.
They sure have them here. “Driver! Stay in the car!” “Driver pull to the right.” Both of my “service” vehicles have/had them. 5 tone +PA 60 Watts. Freaking loud!
Every ambulance I have used had them. Every fire vehicle here has them.
If the department can afford a light bar they can afford the PA. They are less than $100 now!. It allows the officer the freedom to stay in the car and communicate with the citizenry.
We can make a side bet. I’ll buy you a coffee if both that car and your local police do not have PA. (It is position 6 on the siren control head.)

I think the biggest assumption being made in the last few posts is that the police must have been doing the right thing. This is kind of like watching an argument with a creationist.

“Were you there?”

@LuckyGuy Ugh, the black family had to wind up actually being thieves?! That sucks.

In The Memphis suburbs the white people complained that there was more violence in schools when they started having more black kids. It used to make me cringe, because before I started going to my high school growing up in MD it had the reputation of having some racial tension. I never experienced any! It was a very diverse school. I have no idea what the stats were actually like, or how they might have changed, when more black kids started going to schools in the areas around Memphis.

@dappled_leaves Read my first sentences a few posts back ^^^ I wrote: ” Neither you nor I (nor 99.999% of the people talking about the case, including every garbage spewing “Reverend” crawling out of the woodwork to grab some limelight) know what happened. Some say the kid was taking the gun out and putting it away and hiding it as people walked by. Some said they were afraid. I do not know what the police told him. “Freeze!” “Hands Up!” “Get down on the ground!” Who knows?
This is why we citizens need to approve the budget for police body cameras.”

My posts were to show that we do not know the story. Not even the crap video tell it all.

And Please don’t equate me with a Creationist! (Shudder!) You know me better than that.

I say there are plenty of people automatically assuming the police did wrong, too! Perhaps you too?
Now I ask you…. Were you there?

@DrasticDreamer

Your source is a left-wing think tank. Unacceptable. I asked for evidence from a peer-reviewed publication like the one I provided you with.

Here is a right-wing think tank showing the complete opposite. the myth of racial disparities in public school funding

This is why I requested evidence from peer-reviewed publications.

Unlike that source from above, this is peer-reviewed…black boys were more likely to display early conduct problems and low academic achievement and experience poor parent–child communication, peer delinquency, and neighborhood problems, which increased their risk for juvenile arrest link

Even if you try to show causation for why blacks behave so badly, as the evidence shows, it still doesn’t change the fact that it is not racist cops that are the issue, it is poor black behavior.

@grac3alot

The paper that @DrasticDreamer linked to cites the sources for it’s information. It’s just as “peer-reviewed” as your Heritage Foundation link.

There’s a lot more to the conflict regarding the police and black folks in this country than the supposed deficiencies in black boys. It’s been 50 years since it was the required function of most police departments to “keep em in their place”, and old habits and attitudes die hard. There is nothing new about black boys being killed by cops “in the line”, and anybody black KNOWS it. The only difference is now it is reported. That’s all.

@Darth_Algar

Citing sources is not what peer-review means. Peer-review means evaluation of scientific, academic, or professional work by others working in the same field. Those two examples are the opposite of peer-review. No official peer-review organization, as it relates to the field, reviewed and allowed their work to be published. That is why it is an unacceptable source of information.

This is an example of a peer-review link as it applies to medicine.

This is an example of peer-review as it applies to economics link

Whatever gets published here was reviewed by a large committee of professionals within that field.

@grac3alot

You dismissed @DrasticDreamer‘s link as not peer-reviewed yet listed that Heritage Foundation link as peer-reviewed. neither link, in themselves, are peer-reviewed but both cite sources that, presumable, are (being mostly references to sources from government agencies). I’m guessing you didn’t even bother with a cursory look at @DrasticDreamer‘s link before letting a knee-jerk reaction against “liberals” take over and dismissing the whole thing.

You have a poor reading comprehension. I wrote this Here is a right-wing think tank showing the complete opposite. and right after wrote this This is why I requested evidence from peer-reviewed publications.

I listed Heritage to show the fallacy in linking to sources that are not peer-reviewed. Neither Heritage nor Center of American Progress’s work were published in a peer-review journal.

Again, citing sources is not peer-review. Re-read what peer-review means. Unless both studies go through scrutiny of a peer-review organization, those government sources and what is being said and concluded in the studies is meaningless, biased-agenda driven propaganda. I’m not going to spend time reading something that wasn’t reviewed by professionals. There is a reason they only published their work on their own agenda driven websites.

Besides, even if I were to ignore the peer-review factor, if the study by the Heritage Foundation is showing that there is no racial disparities in public school funding as was claimed earlier to be true by drastic’s link, then her link to the study is not a valid source of information.

@grac3alot

I did not say that citing sources is peer-review (and in fact I stated that neither article linked to were themselves peer-reviewed), I stated that the sources being cited were (presumable) peer reviewed. If you’re going to criticize someone else’s reading comprehension make sure your own is up to par first.

Relevant.

Take any given crime.

Some so called group HAS to be the one committing it most often.