Social Question

chinchin31's avatar

Why is it that black people's hair is seen as unprofessional in many workplaces? I personally find this offensive and racist ? What do you think?

Asked by chinchin31 (1884points) January 8th, 2015

Black people have different hair. That is a fact of life.

Why is it that companies are allowed to implement policies like no braids etc.

Braiding is one of the styles that black people use to style their hair.

Even if you have dreadlocks it can be neat too. It is up to you.

Also black hair does not lay flat it sticks out. That is just the way God made it. They have no control over that.

Because you braid your hair that doesn’t mean your hair is unsanitary.

Why is it that the sleek straight hair look is always seen as the best hair.

I don’t get this.

I think it is very intolerant and offensive.

What is up with that? Why can’t people just accept each other . WE are all different.

Why do we all have to look the same.

I think as long as your hair is not smelly or anyone is tripping over it. It is not anyone’s business.

Why are black people always being told by the fashion industry that their hair is inferior and needs to be “fixed” ?

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41 Answers

Dutchess_III's avatar

I have never heard of any of this before as it relates to the fashion industry or the work place.

Black people themselves refer to “good hair,” and “bad hair.” I dated a black guy who had self proclaimed “bad hair,” but I wouldn’t know because he always kept it in Jerry curls.

Can you tell me what what the difference is in the black community between good hair and bad hair?

chinchin31's avatar

Well black people have been affected a lot by slavery and segregration (in the USA etc). So therefore over time in their communites, afro hair was considered “bad” and straight hair ” good ” . So the more your hair was like the white man’s hair the better it was. Unfortunately many still think this way. It is just something that many of them don’t even realise is negative because it was this way for so long.

Also I think that is why a lot of black women straighten their hair and wear weaves. IT is not just fashion but historically and culturally they were told that their hair is too outlandish as white people are not used to it and are in the majority. Some unfortunately still believe this and so try to avoid wearing their natural hair as much as possible.

IT is not all that believe this okay so please don’t start bashing me .

I have come across some companies that have this policy. The one I was talking about. Most don’t .. but I was just wondering why it still exists.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Why would I bash you for answering my question?! Thanks for explaining it to me.

And I don’t really have an answer to your question. I think braids are just fine. They’re nice and neat, but I don’t make policy.
Dreds, however, are more like tattoos, which some companies forbid tattoos that show. They’re a counter culture kind of statement. But they look good on rappers and Bob Marley!

chinchin31's avatar

I know black people with dreadlocks and they are so neat they look like braids… so I don’t agree with you.

I think dreadlocks on white people nearly always looks messy but on black people’s hair it is not necessarily the case.

They can make it look neat and they an also make it look messy. It is up to them.

Dutchess_III's avatar

And the fashion industry bashes everyone, not just black people. They bash women for being too fat, too old, too tall, too short too ugly, whatever.

Dutchess_III's avatar

It’s not so much how they look, it’s what they stand for. Don’t want a feeling of counter culture in an office setting.

BTW, just came across this statement:

“With the Rasta style in vogue, the fashion and beauty industries capitalized on the trend. A completely new line of hair care products and services in salons catered to a White clientele, offering all sorts of dreadlocks hair care items such as wax (considered unnecessary and even harmful by many),[9] shampoo, and jewelry. Hairstylists created a wide variety of modified locks, including multi-colored synthetic lock hair extensions and “dread perms”, where chemicals are used to treat the hair.

Locked models appeared at fashion shows, and Rasta clothing with a Jamaican-style reggae look was sold. Even exclusive fashion brands like Christian Dior created whole Rasta-inspired collections worn by models with a variety of lock hairstyles.”

Article

chinchin31's avatar

And there are alot of people that laugh when they see a black person with an afro. It is rude but they think it is funny.

And it is not just black people. I think all curly haired women feel pressured to straighten their hair. E.g I met lots of white women that say they can’t live without their flat iron.

Yes I think now people are gradually becoming more tolerant as you said above in the vogue article. But that is only now it is changing. So there are still some people who are like OMG and companies etc.

chinchin31's avatar

Thanks for posting the vogue article :)

chinchin31's avatar

Nowadays dreadlocks don’t represent anything. It is just a hairstyle.

What is counter-culture???

I know lots of people that have dreadlocks that are not rastas or know or care anything about the rasta lifestyle. It is just a hairstyle to them.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Oh, like the Hippies. People who don’t want to conform. Bob Marley was the king of the Rastafari movement, which is another type of counter culture. ”The Rastafari way of life encompasses the spiritual use of cannabis.” OH NO!! HE’S A DRUGGY!! Whether or not someone actually represents the Rasta lifestyle is beside the point. People make assumptions based on the way some people choose to look.

Don’t get me wrong~Counter culture isn’t always wrong. It brought us the Civil Rights movement and helped to end the Vietnam war. Unfortunately, though, if someone is seen as a counter culture type that tends to make some peckish people uncomfortable, and it’s usually older peckish people who make the rules.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I used to keep my hair permed for years and years. I finally quit and to my delight I realized it has a natural curl! I just have to mousse it and scrunch it and go! I love my hair.

chinchin31's avatar

Cool. I think as human beings we all just sometimes need time to adjust to people that are different. Hopefully because of internet , tv and advances in communication etc. our future children will just not really care and we will all just start to see each other as just human beings.

I think all of us are prejudiced in some way and we don’t realise it. A lot of us are also brainwashed by the tv as to what is normal.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, we’re hammered by expectations that are set by the fashion industry. Especially woman. Some white woman straighten their hair because that’s the current fashion. Fashions change.

I haven’t seen a real life Afro since the 70’s when it was all the rage! The bigger the better. Not always good, because people sitting behind someone with a huge Afro couldn’t see past them. >_<

Dutchess_III's avatar

Welcome to Fluther!

Dutchess_III's avatar

Hey! I was gonna come get you @JLeslie! Thought you’d like this discussion. ;)

Dutchess_III's avatar

When I was teaching I had a 6th grade class that I was subbing long term in. We had a science project that required some labeling. Sticky notes only came in two colors, dark yellow and light yellow. The black kids in class referred to the light yellow notes as “light skinnded.” :D

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

I think some Black people may get caught up in hair politics just as much as people in other races. I have heard of companies that had no problem with Black hair, but did over spiky hair, Mohawks, spiky Mohawks, weird colors like blue, pink, purple, and green. Depending on where the place of business is, I assume you will run into some type of hair politics.

Many young African Americans are clueless to ”good hair” and ”bad hair” as they are of the flagrant use of the “N” word. Back in the day people wanted to in small part be a half-bred, to be mixed with Hispanic or Caucasian meant you had lighter skin and hair not as nappy, thus you got treated better by teachers and clerks etc. I do not know if the adults were conscious of their actions but us kids surely picked up on it. Those Black kids with ”cut” in them could get away with more and not get into trouble, or got more help with assignments, or offered better volunteer choirs.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Pretty most African Americans are “half-breed.” Many of them, most of them, have European dna.

Cruiser's avatar

Can I asked where you got your information? Your question sounds like it is more your own opinion over real facts about workplace hair restrictions. There is always some safety issues that companies may restrict certain hair length or styles and of course proper basic hair grooming. But I have not ever encountered examples of companies specifically restricting African American hair styles etc.

JLeslie's avatar

I think it depends on the profession. Like lawyers in the northeast even the white people need to do things to style their hair, dress a certain way, make-up nails done on what is perceived as a tasteful manner.

I don’t know anyone who thinks typical black hair styled in a more natural manner is a bad thing or unprofessional. There are some haircuts that are perceived that way whether on black or white people.

I do understand why black women feel unfairly pressured about their hair styles, but I can tell you as a white girl I have spent a shit load of time and money on my basically straight hair, it has a small wave, also. I can’t just wash my hair, let it dry, and show up at the office. My hair would be a stringy, thin, flat, mess. Not to mention my wrinkles are really starting to age me and I bet you don’t have to worry much about that.

Most Caucasian women on TV have fake hair or part fake hair and it’s annoying to have to compare ourselves to that.

All I’m saying is we all have things put upon us by society and the workplace that bends us into a pretzel trying to conform.

Styles change over time, but for now dreadlocks don’t convey a feeling of seriousness I guess. It’s associated with various subcultures, musicians, people who smoke dope, etc.

I do think it’s all changing over time. I know I’ve worked with women who wore braids. When I worked in Bloomingdale’s 20 years ago in Boca Raton FL it was a very very white city, and the store had a huge majority of white employees. One of my peers, a manager, wore her hair in braids sometimes, or sometimes just very very short in a wavy pattern on her head, and no one blinked. At that time we had to wear pantyhose with a skirt, we had to wear a jacket if we wore slacks. With a skirt we could get away with just a blouse. The rules were pretty strict on dress code.

Dutchess_III's avatar

”...dreadlocks don’t convey a feeling of seriousness…” Excellent. That’s what I was grasping for, and it’s probably why I was gonna come get you @JLeslie!

dappled_leaves's avatar

Jessica Williams did a great segment on this subject on The Daily Show a while back.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Wow. That was the most relevant link I’ve ever seen @dappled_leaves! Ridiculous too.

dappled_leaves's avatar

Yup. And to answer the OP’s question, yes, I think it’s racist, though mainly because white people don’t have the faintest clue that black women’s hair is texturally very different and that it requires different kinds of maintenance.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I hope it’s reversed soon. Surely they’d allow a short, natural fro. The men all have to have regulation hair cuts too, I think. Do the white women have any specifications on their hair?

dappled_leaves's avatar

@Dutchess_III I’m no expert on this subject – I just happened to remember the segment when I read this question. Perhaps you could look into it and report back. ;)

Dutchess_III's avatar

I did. Didn’t find much. But didn’t look that hard either.

chinchin31's avatar

@JLeslie I guess big butts don’t convey seriousness either . As this is the latest fad in the celebrity world ??
Whatever. Who is to decide what conveys seriousness. Why do we allow stupid celebrities to influence what is serious and what is not. That comment doesn’t make any sense to me . “Dreadlocks don’t convey seriousnesss” Whatever.
Seriousness has to do with attitude… not hairstyle. There are people with straight sleek hair that are immature .
You are judging people by their external appearance. That’s wrong

Dutchess_III's avatar

Big butts is usually not a fashion choice in the real world. It’s usually a result of over eating. In the fashion world, however, if it makes money then they’re doing their job. Like the big ginormous boobs in the fashion world, or the girl who had all kinds of surgeries to make her self look like a living Barbie.

We’re talking about real world jobs, real world offices, not the fashion industry.

She is not judging people by their external appearances. The people who don’t hire them are. Hell, that’s all they really have to go on!

Dutchess_III's avatar

On the interview sheets there is even a space for noting “Overall appearance.”

Cruiser's avatar

@Dutchess_III Your last 2 answers are IMO quite disconnected…First the fashion industry has fully embraced “Big Butts”...think J-Lo and K Kardashian who are raking in millions for their robust booties. Second I have yet to see big boobs find a serious position in the fashion world as A cups still reign supreme. Thirdly….first impression appearances are a deal maker and deal breaker….but I have always put that behind experience, personality and desire to take the position as to judge anyone on the clothes they show up in and does not tell the story of why they are wearing what they are wearing…perhaps they are wearing clothes they borrowed for the interview….how can I know??? And if I really like their skills yet unhappy with their clothing….I would offer a clothing allowance if they took the job.

chinchin31's avatar

@Dutchess_III Big Butts are a result of over eating ??? Are you crazy.

Girl I was born with a big but. Since I know myself people have always commented on my butt and I am not fat.

Even when I was a size 0 . I had a big butt and people would comment on it.

Some people are just genetically that way.

It is like some people are genetically big breasted.

What are you talking about .

Where do you get information from. You are crazy.

Some people are born that way.

It is a known fact that most black people are genetically predisposed to get a big butt ( not all). It has nothing to do with fatness.

Also most pear shaped women have big butts.

I know lots of fat people that have a flat butt.

Fat people might have wide butts . I don’t call that big.

That statement is weird.

kritiper's avatar

I don’t judge a person’s hair by how it looks any more than I judge a person by his or her skin color or religion. To do so, or even ask a question about it, is demeaning.

Haleth's avatar

Haircare policies in the military were big news a while back. The policies ruled out a lot of lower-maintenance hair style options for black women. Basically the only options left were a chemical relaxer or tiny braids. Both of those are expensive, time consuming, and rough on your hair and scalp.

After a lot of bad press and backlash, the military backed down. But there are plenty of private companies which have rules like this, but more quietly and unofficially.

In many cases, it’s a private conversation from a boss or HR person, about having a “professional appearance.” This happened to a friend of mine recently, who was offered a job and, in the same phone call, asked to straighten her hair.

Even more subtly than that, someone may be hired or not hired because of having natural hair. There is no real way to track that, because the reasoning exists inside the head of the hiring manager or HR person.

Many people don’t realize the time and effort it takes to straighten black hair. Another friend of mine got hers chemically straightened every few weeks to months. The best comparison in white haircare would be getting a perm to make your hair curly. There are harsh chemicals involved that may burn your scalp, and it takes a good chunk of time and money to get it done.

In between treatments, my friend had to spend about 45 minutes with a flat iron to get her hair straight. She compares it to going to the dentist.

@Dutchess_III above mentioned that dreads look “counterculture,” or like hippies. Natural, low-maintenance hairstyles look counterculture because white people have defined mainstream culture and fashion for so long. We’ve made it so that the only “acceptable” hairstyles, especially if you want to get a job, are white hairstyles. The default is to have straight hair that lays flat. We aren’t surprised to see this, because that’s what a default is. But if someone has dreads or an afro it stands out- enough that these traditional hairstyles have become a form of protest.

@JLeslie said: I do understand why black women feel unfairly pressured about their hair styles, but I can tell you as a white girl I have spent a shit load of time and money on my basically straight hair, it has a small wave, also. I can’t just wash my hair, let it dry, and show up at the office. My hair would be a stringy, thin, flat, mess.

It’s not the same thing. Thin, flat hair might be unfashionable, but it is acceptable in the workplace. You might want to have thick, wavy hair, but not having it won’t hold you back professionally.

Imagine if your natural hair color were pink or blue. Everywhere you go, people notice your bright pink hair unless you dye it brown. If you don’t want to do that, you can wear a wig or comb brown powder into it every day to hide how pink it is. You have to keep up with this all the time.

Pink hair is considered counterculture and punk-rock. Some workplaces are progressive and understanding, and they’re ok with your naturally pink hair. But most traditional jobs will quietly tell you that you should do something about your pink hair to look more professional.

Not having to worry about this stuff at all is an example of white privilege in our culture. Black women have to think about this stuff all the time.

JLeslie's avatar

Sorry, but a large portion of white women dye their hair to “look better” or conform.

Black women in my opinion don’t have to straighten their hair. They can wear a wig, something my white mom did most of her life, wear a fro, wear their hair in a looser wavy style, wear it very short. I’m sure there are other options. I personally think braids should be ok. Dreads too for that matter, as long as they look neat. My husband practically has a Jew fro when his hair is a certain length. Picture Greg Brady. He uses product to slick it down at work and we also have permed it straight. Men have it easier than women though, all races. Except if they prefer long hair and their profession frowns in it.

I’ve written on other Q’s that I don’t want my female doctor walking in the exam room with long flowing perfectly coiffed hair. How people present themselves in their particular profession gets evaluated.

As far as big butts, big butt might work against women in some professions. I’m not saying it’s fair or ok, I’m just saying, these are things we need to work on as a society, but also we can use fashion to adjust how we present ourselves.

A lawyer can’t show up in sweatpants to court. I think we all would agree on that. We all conform to some extent. It’s not like black people are the only ones being asked to conform. I think maybe they should take some time to acknowledge we all do it.

A black man I know was complaining about a dress code at work being a “white” code. Nothing to do with hair. What does he think? White people are born wanting to wear a necktie? The white people would rather be comfy in jeans and a polo shirt too. He saw it as an affont to black culture. Bullshit.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I think that more intelligent women pay less attention to things like hair and even dress than others. Their hair may just be neatly cut, their clothes may be nice and neat, but they obviously haven’t spent hours primping and preening to get just the right “look.”

Yeah, we all need to conform. Something I seem to have a hard time with!

@Haleth, @dappled_leaves posted a video segment of the military thing here. Glad to hear they backed off, because that was totally unreasonable, IMO.

chinchin31's avatar

thanks for all your answers x

Adagio's avatar

Sometimes Rastafarians with dreadlocks do get into government, as happened here in NZ with Greens MP, Nandor Tanczoz

dappled_leaves's avatar

I don’t understand why so many people still think “Rasta” when they see dreads. Aren’t we long past that?

jca's avatar

I work for the government, where dress code is pretty relaxed, for the most part. Some departments demand dress shirt and tie for the men, and most departments do not allow jeans, except on certain occasions (like a snow day), but for the most part, it’s pretty laid back. Still, as far as dress codes and requirements, if they’re paying you, they have a right to request or demand that you wear certain things. Uniform, work boots, look a certain way, we have clients coming in, etc. You don’t like it, don’t work here.

As far as black hair, there’s a big movement toward “natural hair” now. Google it and you will see. The trend may be going toward natural hair now. In the 1970’s, it was trendy to have an “afro.” There will probably always be black women who prefer to straighten their hair, for whatever reason. There will probably be more people now who prefer a natural hair look.

I have never heard of black hair being seen as “unprofessional.” I would prefer to be shown some examples of corporate dress codes. Some companies probably don’t want certain looks, and to try to sport that look means a person may not get hired.

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