Have you ever lied inadvertently?

This is natural for most people and I think it stems from not wanting to offend people. Honesty is the best policy. If you explain to someone that you need a break from people because you’re an introvert (I know the feeling) and they don’t like it, then tough. People may not particularly like you for your honesty, but neither can they fault you for it. After all, if someone doesn’t like you because of your true nature, then there’s no need to worry about appeasing them.

@longgone: “I can’t remember deciding to lie, and I only noticed I had lied after the words were out of my mouth.

What’s that about? Do you think I may have managed to fool myself into not noticing those lies?”

For many of us “nice” people, I think it may be conditioning. We say something that doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings, then we get an immediate positive response. It feels good. Then, if we occasionally get the nerve up to be honest, even when we know believe that it will hurt someone’s feelings, we may occasionally be met with a less-positive result. It becomes easy to get hooked on these positive interactions. We justify our choice to lie by saying that it doesn’t really hurt anyone, and it’s the “nice” thing to do. But in reality, we are hurting our relationships and laying a coat of primer in case we feel the need to do any “real” lying in the future. If we do this enough, it becomes habit.

@longgone: “Have you ever done something similar?”

I used to be a “nice guy”. Many years ago, I had a bit of an awakening and have since realized how immoral being the nice guy is – and how truly not nice that behavior is. It was difficult at first, but now is pretty easy. Like most things, I think habit takes over much more than we realize. If I want it to be more likely to reach for a healthy snack, I need to start reaching for healthy snacks. If I want it to be more likely that I will tell the truth, I need to start telling the truth.

The examples you cite are commonly known as ‘white lies’ and they are of the grease that glides polite discourse. They’re shortcuts.

“I’m tired, give me a bit.” and your off.
“I need a bit of alone time.” and people are likely to start asking polite questions, like “Are you okay?” “Are you feeling all right?”

The fact of the matter is, the less details you give about your situation, the faster everyone is able to go on about their business.

“My favorite 9 yo goldfish died in the night and I’m privately stressed.”
“I’m stressed over personal matters.”
“I’m having a bad morning, but I don’t really want to talk about it.”
“I have an appointment.”

@ibstubro: “The examples you cite are commonly known as ‘white lies’ and they are of the grease that glides polite discourse. They’re shortcuts.”

They’re shortcuts to what? Having insincere, superficial relationships built on lies? Having people misunderstand who you are? They’re shortcuts to people being unable to trust you.

You don’t always need to provide tons of details, but lying is immoral. If a friend asks me if I’d like to go see a band on Thursday, I’m not going make up some “I have plans” excuse. I can simply decline (“I’m going to pass, but thanks for the invite”). Do I have to go into details about how I’d rather get home from work and spend time with my kids than go meet up with him and have my ear drums destroyed? No. In fact, if I do decide to elaborate, it would likely lead to a better relationship between us. “I’d rather meet up some time where we could actually talk. I haven’t seen you in a while. The whole loud music thing would be far from ideal…” etc.

When it comes to strangers, there is no reason to lie. But when it comes to the most close people in your life, there really is no excuse. Many people still maintain that “white lies” are harmless. They’re not. And I generally avoid these people. I do not lie to my kids or wife. Ever. Not even the “white lies”.

@ibstubro: “I’m tired, give me a bit.” and you’re off.
”“I need a bit of alone time.” and people are likely to start asking polite questions, like “Are you okay?” “Are you feeling all right?””

The “are you feeling all right?” question is one of those openings in a relationship that allows it to grow? Do they know what an introvert is? Do they know that I am one? Do they know that passing on invites is nothing personal and should not be taken as an insult?

If you’re talking about complete strangers and it doesn’t seem appropriate to get into all this, simply passing is completely honest and appropriate.

I have “lied” inadvertently, I have “lied” deliberately. I do not believe that this is a black and white issue. As much damage can be done by compulsive fact-telling as by compulsive lying. The concept of “honesty is the best policy” is far too simplistic.

Example: When I was a bartender and cocktail waitress I wore a wedding ring to work a lot, therefore lying by implication. The level of harassment I dealt with dropped to near zero, compared to the ringless shifts I worked. I had tried the whole thing where I would firmly reject advances, not engage with rude customers etc, all of that taking away from an efficient and pleasant working environment. I was there to work, not to educate cretins. I owed my employer my best job, pretending I was attached achieved that.

Another example: My mother is 90 years old and has a personality disorder. When I talk to her on the phone, after a reasonable conversation, I lie to her (“I have to go now, Mom” “Why?” “I have an appointment” “Oh, OK”). If I tell her the truth (“I don’t want to talk to you anymore.” “Why” “Because you’re getting mean and I hate that and if I let you go on it will escalate”) she will then have a full-blown somewhat psychotic episode. The truth is not ultimately kinder in this case.

Sometimes people ask “why?” and it is inappropriate to be honest or to not answer.

I am well able to tell the difference between when a fib is appropriate and when it is merely convenient to me. I am well able to tell the difference between a “lie of omission” and simply having an unexpressed thought. I know when someone’s confidence needs to be bolstered and my “honest” opinion would do them no good at all.

There is very little in this world that is “all or nothing”. When dealing with humans, there are almost always shades of gray.

@canidmajor: “When dealing with humans, there are almost always shades of gray.”

Of course. There are always those exceptions that fit into the “hiding the Jews in the attic” scenario and others involved with truly stopping people (or yourself) from being harmed. But we’re able to say that lying is harmful in the same way that we can say that killing someone is harmful. Grey all over the place. But those statements have value.

We aren’t ever going to agree on this, @hominid , because you repeatedly make statements like “lying is immoral”. Even in much much lesser cases than the “Jews in the attic” scenario, lying fibbing (semantics is important here) is not immoral. The first example I gave is definitely not a “Jews in the attic” scenario, but is a valid reason for misleading, prevaricating, whatever the hell you want to call it. I trust to my conscience to guide me in these things; absolutes, or near absolutes are not necessary for me to make choices. It may be “immoral” for you to “lie” (there are many words that can fall under that umbrella, language has provided us with those shades of gray), I trust my own judgement to do no harm by the times I say not-facts, and I do pretty well.

And I really don’t equate all telling of not-facts with killing someone. Yes, there are shades of gray to both, but the difference is pretty extreme.

How can you lie “inadvertently”?.

@stanleybmanly : I would imagine by automatically inserting an excuse or not-fact in place of an explanation or information that might cause unwanted extension of the interaction.

Now I get it. It becomes “automatic”. Thanks for adding the word. It makes a big difference

I really don’t know for sure what the OP meant, I’m sure it was inappropriate of me to speculate. Perhaps the OP meant “without thinking it through carefully”. I don’t know.

I have before, making up stories or excuses to escape doing something with someone. I’m really not a people person at all. Seemed better to tell people a white lie, because otherwise, I figured I was telling them, basically, “no, you’re a boring motherfucker and I don’t want to hang out with you”.
Not everyone understands what it is to be introverted, and some can take your desire to be on your own personal.
Except after a while, I was starting to get sick of having to tell lies, and then follow up on them. It was easier than I thought to say just say no, and explain nothing further. I discovered that people take it much better than I assumed, and most are cool with it, especially if it’s someone you know, and they know how you are. The exceptions are actually few and far between.
It also made me discover that I’m a bit of an asshole, because after giving up the lies and excuses, I found out that I don’t actually care much what people will say or think or feel if I upset them. But better that than lying, I suppose.

“Do you like my outfit?” asked hopefully.
“Oh, yes! I do!” Not

You are so immoral, @Dutchess_III.’

We have a sweet old lady that brings us treats…that she bakes with Spenda. Yuck. She makes sure to ask each one of us 203 times, “Were the _____’s good??” “OH, yes!”

Not good at all, but what good would come of telling her that? She enjoys doing it, and we appreciate the thought.

This is probably off topic, but white lies or not, those are NOT “inadvertent” lies. You are deliberately telling a half truth or a white lie in all of the examples.

An inadvertent lie would be more like:
“Is Fred on his way over?”
“Oh yes. He’s on his way right now.”
Little did you know that Fred is sleeping on his couch and totally forgot he was supposed to come over. You didn’t actually check to see if he was coming, you just assumed he was. So you inadvertently lied about it.

Damn it Fred, you lazy bastard.

While the discussion of “white lies” is interesting, it wasn’t what I was asking. I enjoyed it anyway – so thanks for responding!

As to my question: I think @hominid‘s theory of having been conditioned to expect negative responses to an honest answer is very plausible.

@keobooks, @stanleybmanly and @canidmajor I don’t know whether “automatically” may have been a better word, but I do mean lying by accident. I know that’s not the norm, I’ve lied deliberately, too. I’m talking about just these situations, the ones I feel cornered. I literally lied before consciously deciding to lie, in these conversations. I know I may be fooling myself, but I don’t get why I’d do that. I know I can lie. I know I do lie, at times. Why single out these situations?

I think I understood what you meant, @longgone, I often feel put on the spot and feel I have to come up with something quickly. I feel awkward when that happens.

If you asked me if I lie, I’d say no. However, I have certainly lied in the past to get out of things. So, a girlfriend might ask me to come to a Tupperware party she’s holding. I hate Tupperware parties or anything else of that type so I wouldn’t want to attend. If I knew she was going to be hurt by me not attending, I might make up an excuse (I might also attend because I care about her or tell her I hate Tupperware parties). These days, I’m much more likely to be honest and say I don’t like such things and I won’t attend.

@Earthbound_Misfit : I should probably learn some white lies about those kind of parties. I flat out tell people that the stuff is too expensive and there’s too much pressure to buy stuff at those parties. Not only do I not get invited to any more parties like that, I don’t get invited to much else.

You and me both @keobooks. We could have a pity party? Just us (unless anyone else wants to join us). I’ll bring wine.

^ I’ll come. Tupperware parties. I’ve never been to one, but I don’t think I could get excited about it…

@canidmajor Exactly. Awkward is just the right term.

My girlfriend used to have home decor parties. I loaded my 6 year old up to go to yet another one. She said, “So, we’re going to one of those parties where you never buy anything?” :D

Yeah, those parties are hosted by the grown-up little girls who sold enough worthless candles and cards in school to win their ‘very own transistor radio in leather-like carrying case.’

Guilt money.