Is the Keystone pipeline the most important issue in the United States today?

No, who is going to be the next President is most important.

I really couldn’t care about the Keystone I would rather our (Canadian) east coast refineries get it instead of our US neighbours .
But both Governments seem hell bent on shipping it south instead of east.

Not even remotely close.

This is not a mystery. They’re being lobbied hard by the oil industry, and are happy to take up its cause. Even though that cause is an extremely destructive one.

Nope. Absolutely not. The least of our worries. BTW, G.W. Bush took on a lot of similar projects and usurped powers that didn’t belong to the Executive branch—so a collective body like Congress? Scares me much less.

I’ll list some more pressing issues – in no particular order:

a) Internal terrorism (fanatics that want to kill law officers; the scary extremes found in the sovereign citizen movement religious zealots and act on teachings that do NOT represent their religion but just a crazy religious leader)

b) Fracking

c) Entire towns (hundreds in the midwest) that were built out of asbestos – from the factories to the ball fields and now uncountable numbers of children and adults are dying from mesothelioma.

d) THIS – WTF..no one is controlling how our food is being factory farmed and how it’s HARMING people (not to mention the animals!) all over the place.

e) Women in America make 23% less than their male counterparts in the same job.
Even now in 2015. Check it out.

f) Gun violence. Here’s your interesting fact for the day: The Congressional Research Service in 2009 estimated there were 310 million firearms in the U.S., not including weapons owned by the military. 114 million of these were handguns, 110 million were rifles, and 86 million were shotguns.
In that same year, the Census bureau stated the population of people in the U.S. at 306 million.
Yep, you read that right. We have more guns than people in the U.S.
Frankly, I’d rather be in New Zealand where the sheep outnumber the people rather than the guns!

These are just a handful of the FAR FAR more pressing issues I think we have in the US today.

No. The most important issue is..are we going to blow ISIS out of the water?

The wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth from the Republican wing of the whorehouse on Capitol Hill should surprise no one. Meaningless claims of dire urgency and patently transparent doomsday bullshit has nobody fooled. The great boondoggle is necessary to make one of the world’s filthiest extraction processes economically viable. It’s rather refreshing that Obama can find the wiggle room to veto the thing.

They just want an issue to force a confrontation with the President. It’s all a showdown at the OK Corral on both sides at this point.

Despite all the early talk about Congress cooperating with the President, this Congress seems bent on possibly doing even less than the previous one. They have offered one bill after another that the Democrats have opposed and Obama threatens to veto. How many times are they going to vote against the ACA? I think they are up to about 60. One theory for this that I heard is that the Republicans think they can blame the lack of activity on the President. Does this sound overly cynical? Recall that at one point McConnell said that his primary objective was to keep Obama from being reelected.

i would not even put it in the top ten most important issues facing the United States. the crude oil designated for the Keystone XL pipeline is extracted from the tar sands in Canada.it is expensive to extract this crude. i saw a article with oil industry expert T Boone Pickens several years ago and he was saying that gasoline has to be somewhere above 2 dollars per gallon to even make it profitable to extract it let alone refine it.

How can Congress be so blind/deaf to the desires of the American public?

They seem to be set on a course of self destruction to me. How that destruction will manifest, I don’t have a clue.

“To the victors go the spoilage?”

It’s amazing to me that the Republicans took the Congress and have no more plan or agenda than to keep poking their finger in the the President’s eye.
Isn’t that what the past 6 years was all about??

You tell them, the real answer would be , build a refinery at the tar sands site and refine it to a state that wasn’t so harmful to the environment , in case of a pipeline failure, or just tell Canada to keep it and your not interested.

@ibstubro Are you new to American politics, or just to Republican tactics?

As to 6 years… I have been re-watching The West Wing lately, and it is like watching a pre-run of the past 6 years. Almost every political event that we’ve observed under Obama’s presidency happened on that show, and it ran from 1999–2006. And it was based on events that had already occurred in American politics.

None of this is new. None of this posturing by Republicans is new at all. They are basically a for-profit group that does performance art in exchange for enormous contributions from industries that want to block legislation that would regulate them more tightly. They do not want to govern. They want to prevent government. That’s their whole schtick.

Nice, neutral, non-inflammatory opening @daffy_twigs.
How like you to start an answer to a question with an insult. Incivility.
How Republican of you!
lol

You’re right, I do not have the supreme insight of having watching broadcast television dramas for insight into current politics.

I saw every episode of Six Feet Under, however, if you need embalmed.

Just don’t ask me how to catch a Road Runner.

Really, @dappled_leaves, you should consider a political run. You’d fit in today, when it’s more important to get a dig in than it is to have a discussion, or actually make a valid point without offending and alienating your audience first.

Top notch Congressional material!

Leadership material, even. Be nasty out of the gate, whether you agree or disagree, or even know.

@ibstubro Huh? Outside of my first sentence, which was plainly tongue in cheek, nothing in my post was approaching “incivil” or deserving of the vitriol you spewed at me here. Tongue in cheek posts are pretty much the norm on Fluther – you do it yourself on a daily basis.

Perhaps you should simply specify in your details who is allowed to respond and who is not. And don’t forget to dictate the tone.

Oh, okay, @dappled_leaves.
I was only joking.
Giving you the benefit of a doubt, as it were.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Will it makes a rats ass bit of difference either way? Probably not. If the pipeline is not approved, the world will go on. If it is approved, the world will go on, so, no, it is not that big of a deal.

Personally, I am on the side that says why the fuck should I risk my world for a grand total of, what?, 35 jobs and allowing a bunch of overly rich fucks the opportunity to become overly richer.

But, that is just me.

“Has Congress taken on a will of it’s own, without regard for the American voters?”

Your closing line seems a bit off base. Every poll I’ve seen shows approval for the Keystone with significant majorities. It would seem that congress is doing what Americans want for a change. And of course, Obama is fighting it as usual.

It’s interesting that Republicans who are so concerned with limiting big government have no problem with using eminent domain to steal the farms and ranches of people who don’t want to give up their land for this project.

So, @Jaxk, you contend that approval of the Keystone pipeline is foremost in the minds and priorities of the American people? Because that is the question.

Either you think Congress is addressing the most important issue facing the American people by taking on Keystone now, or you are way off base in your answer to this question.

Trust me, I asked it.

Taking up an issue that is of marginal importance to 95% of the American populace that is vowed to get a veto that you cannot override is party agenda, not governance.

@janbb, as I understand it, the Republicans are wanting to give a foreign company (Canadian owned) the right to eminent domain over American farms and ranches.

@ibstubro – Congress does not ONLY deal with the most important issue of the day. Keystone is not the top issue but it is an issue that should be addressed. It has been studied now for 6 years and just because Obama has threaten a veto, does not mean it should be dropped. Hell Obama has threaten to veto everything. Just as an aside, I mowed my lawn this weekend and it was not the most pressing issue in my life. Still it needed to be done. Keystone needs to be addressed even if it is not THE most pressing issue, it is an issue. That is what congress is supposed to do, deal with issues. It’s better than renaming post offices which has been the mainstay for Democratic congresses over the past 6 years.

Congress isn’t dealing with shit, @Jaxk, and that was my point.

The Republicans have a majority in Congress, and they can’t even come up with one single piece of legislation that stands a chance of passing. Shit, Boner’s so goddamn contrary he’ll poke his finger in McConnell’s eye if there isn’t someone else handy.

Where’s all this brilliant Republican legislation that the Democrats have been thwarting for the past 6 years?

Keystone? 35 permanent jobs??
Anti immigration reform?
Anti health care.

Yeah, buddy, them Publicans are leading the shit out of not leading shit. They’re writing the book.

“We have nothing constructive in mind and we’ll be gol-darned if we going to let anyone else get anything done!”
“We’re mad as hell, and we’re not going, uh, well, we’re made as hell!

Let’s see, if Obama vetos a bill you criticize congress and I criticize Obama, To use one of Obama’s lines, “elections have consequences”. In the last election there were apparently too many of me and not enough of you.

@Jaxk And yet the pipeline remains but a dream, and a dream slagging in popularity as the days roll by.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/energy/polls-give-obama-dems-lift-on-keystone-pipeline-20150120

I still say. you should just tell us darn Canadians to keep our damn crude, problem solved and our east coast refineries get supplied instead of importing it from over seas.

@SQUEEKY2 Agreed, Canadians don’t want this deal any more than Americans do. We’re tired of being lied to about pipeline monitoring and the safety of other means of transport – and this for tar sands oil, which is impossible to clean up, even when compared to other kinds of oil.

My favourite revelation about oil transport was the map Enbridge produced a few years ago of a difficult-to-navigate channel in BC, through which it proposed to ship crude – they actually erased most of the islands from the map to make it look feasible. Utter bastards.

It’s hard to see who this really benefits and why the Repubs are so for it. As far as I understand it, aside from anything else wrong with it, tar sand oil extraction is too costly while other oil is currently cheap.

@janbb Yes, a lot of us are hoping the current market will simply stamp out tar sands production for that reason. It’s a shameful blight on the planet, honestly.

One wonders if common sense ever prevails once issues have become politicized.

@SQUEEKY2. But isn’t the issue about the cost of extracting oil from the tar sands is so high that shipping by rail is only worthwhile when oil prices are double what they are currently?

You’re right, @Jaxk, apparently the last election has too many pig headed people. Now their leaders are incapable of any meaningful leadership.

The Republicans have a majority in Congress.
”if Obama vetos a bill you criticize congress and I criticize Obama.”
If the only bill that a Republican controlled Congress can propose is one that the President has promised to veto, and that Congress doesn’t have the votes to override, that’s just non-productive, ignorant pigheadedness.

For this they wanted a majority? Hell, they had allowing nothing to be accomplished mastered as the minority.

I tend to be conservative and I have no love for Obama, but I’m not a stupid blind idiot that’s going to pretend that the current Republican leadership is worth a shit.

Boner has become a negative, annoying polarizing figure on a par with Nancy Polosi during the Dems recent heyday. It serve no one.

@ibstubro – That’s an interesting theory. Let me see if I have this right. If Obama threatens a veto, the Republicans should just drop the issue entirely. At the same time the Republicans must pass some legislation lest they be labeled as a do nothing congress. With those restrictions it sounds like the only thing they can do is to pass the legislation that Obama wants passed. Kinda like the first 2 years when he had a filibuster proof majority.

Is that really what you want, a rubber stamp congress that only does what Obama wants done?

@Jaxk It sounds like you think that Obama is the only person with ideas. Don’t the Republicans have any ideas of their own?

No, @Jaxk, the theory is that if the Republicans, upon gaining a majority in Congress, had proposed an agenda that was both positive and somewhat bi-partisan that they could have likely gotten the Keystone pipeline passed after a bit.

Take immigration reform. Major leaders in the Republican party have said openly and publicly that the best way to address Obama’s Executive Orders on immigration is to (GASP!) address immigration reform laws.

Immigration reform bill 2013: Senate passes legislation 68–32

The most important lesson of the past few years has been totally lost on the GOP [House] leadership: “Without minimal cooperation from the minority party, the majority party can accomplish nothing substantive.” They wrote the book, yet appear oblivious to it’s message.

Hands up everyone who thinks that the train wreck in West Virginia is going to be used by some to justify the Keystone Pipeline construction!?!?!?!

@ibstubro – Sounds like you want comprehensive Immigration reform and don’t want keystone. That would explain why a compromise that gives you (and Obama) exactly what you want would sound good. I, on the other hand, don’t want comprehensive immigration reform and do want Keystone. That explains why giving Obama exactly what he wants does not sound like compromise to me.

In fact giving Obama what he wants merely shows him that his strong arm tactics work and the Republicans won’t get anything. Obama started with his veto threats before the new congress was even seated. He set a record for the most veto threats in a State of the Union Address.

@rojo – the latest spill is hardly worth noting based on the history. In 2013 rail spills exceeded the total of all years prior. 1.4 million gallons soaked into the ground from railroad derailments. 2014 saw more spills but less volume. West Virginia is only the latest, it’s the upward trend that ius disturbing.

@Jaxk Not being snarky at all, I’m curious to know what the reasons are for promoting the Keystone pipeline? What are the advantages of it to the US or its citizens?

@janbb – Fair question. Lets start with no tax dollars required. That means that whatever the number of jobs or other benefits from Keystone, it won’t cost our economy anything. The State department estimates 42,100 jobs will be created to build the pipeline and an additional 50 full time jobs to operate it. Maybe not enough to fix our unemployment issue but certainly significant. There is a lot of discussion about dirty nature of Tar Sands Oil but whether it is refined here or in Canada the emissions are the same so as far as Global warming is concerned it is the same. In fact most of that oil is already coming here but in a more dangerous way, by train. if there is a concern about spills, the pipeline is less likely to damage the environment than rail. It will also bring a steady supply of oil which provides the refineries a more stable operating environment and reduces the fluctuation of jobs at the refineries. Anything that reduces our dependence on oil from OPEC is a good thing.

All good stuff. My question to you would be what are the objections? I don’t see the downside.

@Jaxk So much of that is wrong. Completely wrong.

I klnow most of the people here like Factcheck so here’s there take on Keystone. They agree with everything I’ve said.

Okay, @Jaxk, pay attention:

#1.) I DO NOT PARTICULARLY GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT THE KEYSTONE PIPELINE.
#2.) I DO NOT HAVE A HORSE IN THE RACE REGARDING IMMIGRATION REFORM.

Okay? Is that clear? Does that “sound like” I have stated my position unequivocally?

If so, then (pay attention, I’ll try to be clear):
*It pisses me off as a traditionally conservative American for the GOP to let Boner fritter away the chance for a united Congress to actually _lead or govern the US.

Hold up Homeland Security funding over Executive Orders on immigration reform? What horseshit. Swiftly pass Homeland Security funding and then take up the Senate bill on immigration reform and pass a version of that.

Then consider some kind of funding on the campaign against ISIL, arguably the most pressing item on the American agenda, given it’s political and economic costs. We’re already spending the money, let’s set some terms.

The stupid fuckers could had had Keystone free and clear if they’d used it as a bargaining chip to get other needed legislation passed.

But no. We’re focused on pissing as many people off as we can trying to reverse the past. Yeah, your right, fuck the future. Let’s let the tea party Boner piss everybody but a handful of the hard core off until we get to the point where there;s no hope of passing anything.

There was an interesting piece on NRP today with the hypothesis that ISIS has prophesied that the West will raise up against them as one, and that’s the reason they’ve gone to efforts to draw Jordan and Egypt into direct attacks. They believe that once it is them against everyone else, they will prevail.

Seems to be John Boehner’s plan as well. If Ohio can begin a recall, they can depend on my cash support.

Quote, from 3 hours ago”
“There is no greater force on Earth than the power of people **banning** together to demand liberty, economic opportunity and human dignity.”
Freudian slip? Or just stupid?
What’s that ’sound like’ to you?

@ibstubro – What I see you saying is that congress should give Obama everything he wants and maybe down the road he will see fit to throw the republicans a bone. Drop the Keystone issue, pass his version of immigration reform, and give him the dramatically restricted war powers. There is no indication that Obama would ever even consider compromising on Keystone even if they gave him those things. Quite frankly I see all three as major long term problems that can not be reversed when things go south, which I fully expect would happen.

Keystone is a trial balloon to test his metal. It forces him to actually do something and as I said above, there are no real reasons to stop it. It is a pure play to the environmental lobby. The quid pro quo is for the HLS funding. If he veto’s that Obama is the one shutting down government. Funding is what congress (the house specifically) is chartered to do and it is the only leverage left to them.

You say Boehner is trying to piss off the democrats by passing the keystone bill but you find no fault with Obama threatening 4 veto’s in his state of the union to kick off this congress. Why would you not think Obama was pissing off anyone.

We’ve had 6 years of Obama running rough shod over everyone. He has pushed through most if not all of his agenda and it has been a disaster. Our economy is still in the toilet, internationally we’re a joke, Islamic terrorism has taken control of most of the Middle East and according to your own statement, it is likely to get worse. Why in hell would we let him continue to run wild with both our economy and the world disorder? We need to unite but giving in to the Demands of Obama is not the way to do it. Boehner may not be the best Speaker but if he let’s Obama walk all over him, I’ll be the one screaming for impeachment.

Show me, @Jaxk.
“What I see you saying is that congress should give Obama everything he wants and maybe down the road he will see fit to throw the republicans a bone. Drop the Keystone issue, pass his version of immigration reform, and give him the dramatically restricted war powers.”

Show me where I said or implied any of that bullshit. You ”saw” it. Open our eyes.

Honestly I don’t understand your rabid, mind-numbing obsession with Obama. My post ignored him entirely and your post is strictly, 100% anti-Obama.

The entire point of my post was that the Republicans now have a majority in Congress and they need to present a positive agenda, if they have one, and stop being the party that’s against anything the other party proposes.

’I hear you saying’ that the Republicans have no plan or desire to actually govern. That the most foremost thing for the current leadership of the legislative branch equals “Keystone is a trial balloon to test his metal.”

Immigration reform bill 2013: Senate passes legislation 68–32

“The bill was a product of not only weeks of floor debate and committee rewrites, but months of private negotiations by the Gang of Eight — the group of four Democrats and four Republicans — to produce legislation that would give the Senate a shot at passing immigration reform, something it was unable to do just six years ago.”
Perhaps a better starting point?

Ultimately a strictly Anti-Obama agenda has a limited life, and only serves to strengthen Obama’s popularity. I’d say that Congress’ current ‘all negative, all the time’ ‘we’re solely here to test the President’ course is the best hope the Democrats have for 2016.

@ibstubro – Every post you say your not pushing Obama’s agenda and then go on to push Obama’s agenda. You’ve said three times that congress should pass the comprehensive immigration reform bill. That is Obama’s bill. We have already tried amnesty, it didn’t work. Reagan passed it and all it did was open the flood gates for more illegal immigration. When Reagan passed it we had a few million illegals, now we have 10–15 million. Pass it again and we’ll have to start setting up refugee camps. There are no more Indian lands to steal, we can’t afford open borders.

The Keystone bill is a good jobs bill. There is no discernable downside and if Obama wants to veto he has no legitimate reason to do so. It not only produces 42,000 jobs but they are well paying middle class jobs. Not the minimum wage crap Obama has been creating. Yet you want us to believe that if congress passes this jobs bill and Obama veto’s it, Boehner is the one saying NO. Get real.

and finally, Obama is not going to fight ISIS. He’ll do a few bombing runs, not many mind you but a few. They will be ineffective with no boots on the ground to help target and they’ll kill more civilians that ISIS fighters but he’ll say he’s winning. He can do that right now with the existing power he has. The bill he wants is intended to restrict the next president and to show our allies that we won’t be around should anything go wrong. Which given his mindset is inevitable.

It seems a bill that creates good jobs, costs no taxpayer money , and has no downside is a good place to start this new congress.

No, I’ve said three times that the Republicans would do well to re-visit the Immigration bill put forth by a bi-partisan commission in the Senate. Time and time again Republican leaders have said the best way to counter Obama’s Executive Orders on immigration, is to propose immigration reform.

It’s actually humorous how narrowly focused on Keystone you are. As has been pointed out, the support of the American citizenry for Keystone is slipping. Not in small part, I’m sure, because of Boner’s irrational, rabid support. Well, that and the facts:
35
permanent
jobs
temporarily

Additionally I’d be curious to know how many of those jobs would be going to Americans, since it will be owned and financed by TransCanada.

Funny that the Republican’s would be in the forefront of granting a foreign company eminent domain over the property of US citizens.

Even odder that they would make it the linchpin of a newly elected Congressional majority.

But yall’s keep at it. The Democrats by now are lapping it up.

“STATES RIGHTS! STATES RIGHTS!” The federal government shouldn’t have the ability to make us put a pipeline through our land even if it is for our own good!

@rojo – It is a States issue. The approval for eminent Domain comes from the States not from Obama. Red Herring.

Yeah, @rojo.
Damn you for mentioning Obama!

Oops. you didn’t.

@ibstubro – OK, I see there is no resolution in sight. You seem to think that the project should be dropped because it may not create quite as many jobs as Obama’s State Department said it would. And you cite Van Jones as proof (who gives a shit what Van Jones says?).

“Additionally I’d be curious to know how many of those jobs would be going to Americans”

Probably none if you have your way. We’ll have an additional 10–15 million immigrants we need to find jobs.

I still stand behind you should just tell us damn Canadians to just keep our crude, or tell us Canadians to refine it at the Tar sands site to a state that wouldn’t be so hazardous to the environment if and when a pipe line fails.

And the pipe line in your country wont create that many permanent jobs, and isn’t that what really matters?
Not just part time work?
And @Jaxk most of the time you come across as a very rational person, but your hate for Obama is showing through, and it goes from one extreme to the other, example when I bring up universal health care, you just say ok comrade like if your country was to accept it communism is next just like all the other countries that have it have done RIGHT?
I still don’t think all the safety issues have been addressed that should be with your pipe line, and key stone seems to quickly change the subject when that comes up, look at how well the pipe line company did with the Kalamazoo disaster.
And stop dodging what @ibstubro is bringing up, if the Rep/cons are so great then why haven’t they come up with anything, their motive is just block anything that the evil Obama wants, gee how about coming up with something long term that will help your whole country not just benefit the people that are pitch forking these rep/cons money?

@SQUEEKY2 I fully admit I dislike what Obama has done to this country and the way in which he’s done it. He’s lied, twisted the constitution, been the most secretive administration in my lifetime. It will take a long time, if ever to undo the damage he has done. I would need some context to address the comrade comment but most likely it was sarcastic. As for the safety issues, I’ll call your Kalamazoo and raise W. Virginia. We have 185,000 miles of oil pipeline in the US. Over 2 million miles of total pipeline, gas and oil. There is no question that a leak will occur but compared with any other method of transport, pipeline is safer. You have to remember that this isn’t something that just came up and has been rushed through. It has been studies by every conceivable group in every conceivable way. If your argument is that Canada shouldn’t sell the oil to the US, then don’t sell it.

As for dodging, I don’t know what you expect. I’m into issues. If the bill is a good one I say pass it. I’ve yet to hear any downside from you or @ibstubro. Republicans have lots of bill to pass but they stand less of a chance than keystone. Obama objects to anything that might get this economy moving again. Tax reform, border security, reasonable regulation, etc. The idea that we should just give him what he wants because we can’t get anything else past him, is ludicrous. Obama is blocking everything.

Obviously, @Jaxk, you are not able to follow a thread or a chain of thought.

If all you’re capable of is knee-jerk response to the most immediate post, then you probably shouldn’t attempt debate. There have been, what, 5–6 links showing the actual impact that Keystone will have on jobs and because you dismiss one?
You ’seem to be’ ignoring facts that don’t suit you:
“Funny that the Republican’s would be in the forefront of granting a foreign company eminent domain over the property of US citizens.”

“Obama is blocking everything.” lol
Yeah, the Republican’s have been a regular machine in proposing laws since the attained a majority in Congress.
Propose something that might find common ground – like the Senate Immigration Reform bill – and you immediately set your hair on fire.

The Republicans refuse to make any valid proposals because they expect that they will reap what they have previously sown.

Secretive WMD war.

@Jaxk. You’ll make a Democrat of me yet, if that’s the best the Republicans have to offer.

@ibstubro – Nice try. You hold up a link that says maybe the number of jobs could be lower. So what. That’s not a down side that’s simply not as good as it could be. Even then your comparing it to an estimate. Where is the down side? It cost us nothing and provides jobs. All you can do is haggle about how many jobs. Give me a break.

Nobody is granting Eminent Domain to a foreign company. Eminent Domain is the government seizing land for the benefit of the public. The states involved have granted that and expect to gain a boat load of jobs from it. They do it for roads all the time and without it no pipelines could be built nor roads for that matter.

“Yeah, the Republican’s have been a regular machine in proposing laws since the attained a majority in Congress.”

This is February and the Republicans took control in January. Can you say 1 month.

I see your still pushing that Immigration bill. Or are you still denying that your pushing that immigration bill? It’s a bad bill. If you want it so bad, argue for it instead of saying they should pass it just to say they passed it.

I have no clue what your point is about WMDs that is old news and was made public while Bush was still in office. As far as making you a Democrat, you don’t have far to go. Actually I’m surprised you call yourself anything else.

LOL.
‘Cost us nothing.”

Eminent Domain: “Eminent domain is the power of the state to take private property for public use by a state or national government. However, it can be legislatively delegated by the state to municipalities, government subdivisions, or even private persons or corporations when they are authorized to exercise functions of public character, usually for health and safety.”
Re-writing the laws of the land for a foreign company. Republican oxymoron?

Why can’t you understand that the Senate Immigration Bill was written by 4 Republicans and 4 Democrats. Where did I say Pass that bill”? You don’t agree that a bill passed by the Senate might be a starting point for meaningful debate and negotiation? Or would you just do away with both the Senate and the President? Best of luck.

January going on the end of February. Have the Republicans proposed anything new?
No. Why? Because, according to you, the omniscient “Obama is blocking everything.”
Your words.
My image
LOL

The State is taking the land through Eminent Domain. The same way they do for roads or Railroads. Nothing new here. Why would you think anyone is rewriting anything. The Sate is then leasing the land to Trans Canada to build the pipeline. That is exactly what Eminent Domain was created for. Without it we would not have the interstate highway system or the national railroads or the existing 2 million miles of pipeline.This should not be that difficult for you to understand, liberal bias or not.

I guess since the immigration bill was written by 4 Dems and 4 Repubs, that makes it a good bill? You can’t be that far gone. The Republicans have been saying for a long time that they favor Immigration reform in smaller pieces. First border control and then deal with those that are here. There’s good reason for that and I for one favor that approach. Obama has said he want comprehensive immigration reform. That is amnesty and a vastly expanded immigration policy. Border control he could already do if he chose to but he choses not to. Again, just because the senate passed the existing bill doesn’t make it a good one nor does it follow that the House should pass it. Hell the House has passed a bunch of bills that the Senate under Harry, refused to even consider.

Should congress pass some legislation? Well yeah but let’s make it good legislation. Something that will help the economy. If the President will only sign bad legislation then let him veto the good stuff and defend it. With all your whining about the immigration bill I would think your picture fits you more than me. I’m OK with what they’re doing.

A Canadian pipeline is grounds for Eminent Domain over American citizens that have been on the land for generations?
Another injunction.

Again:
“You don’t agree that a bill passed by the Senate might be a starting point for meaningful debate and negotiation?”
11–20-13 in case you care for a little reality.

“If the President will only sign bad legislation then let him veto the good stuff and defend it.”
My point exactly.
Where’s the “good stuff”?

@ibstubro – I’m aware of the injunction and have confidence that it will be resolved. Every time Eminent domain is used, there are some angry landowners. I do sympathize with them but the issue is the same whether it is a highway, railroad, or some blighted community issue. If you believe that eminent domain should be stopped, I assume you would also be OK with no new highways/bridges and such.

You left out the key sentence: “so long as the outcome would be the same.”. A distinction without a difference.

Keystone is one of the good stuff. I’ll push for more but I don’t have the influence I was hoping for.

#1) you have enough trouble keeping your own fictions afloat, you need not “ass/u/me” anything about me.

#2) “so long as the outcome would be the same.”
What the hell are you talking about and who are you quoting?

Read your own link,11–20–13 . First paragraph.

lol.
And how would he control that?
Sign or veto…there’s no do-overs if you don’t like the next round.

I don’t know, it’s your link. Maybe wait until he has them all before signing any. That kinda sounds like something he would do/demand.

Would still be a good corner to back him into, if the GOP is looking to appear to be on a positive track.

Yes, and I’m hoping they do that. I expect Obama to threaten a veto if they try. We’ll see.

In view of the current glut in oil, wouldn’t it be more prudent to wait until demand (prices) climb to pimp the “urgency” of the project. As things stand currently, even with the pipeline, tar sands crude production costs exceed the market value of the low grade product. If the conservatives force the issue at the present time, Obama can veto the thing with impunity.

Prices are already on the rise and I haven’t seen them level off yet. Trying to catch prices at a peak is a fools game.

Prices are rising, but the timing of the measure is unfortunate for its proponents. There are no political negatives to vetoing the boondoggle in the face of a glut.

It is a curious and very pertinent point that Squeeky raises. When prices rise to the point that the sands are once more economically viable, it would seem the pipeline amounts to a decision about risk. The BIG question stands. Why transfer the environmental risks from Canadian territory to ours, when the benefits derived will flow principally to our Northern friends?

@stanleybmanly – The oil is coming here now. If it doesn’t come from Canada, it comes from elsewhere. Mostly from places we don’t want to support. Canada is at least friendly. The pipeline is the safest means of trans port so why would we want to use a more risky method?

The pipeline may be the safest method of transporting the tar sands sludge, but my point is why should we shoulder the risks? After all, if the safest route for transporting nuclear waste is through my backyard, that by no means assures me that it is the safest route FOR my backyard Let the Canadians build their pipeline through Canada as Squeek suggests. It seems a lot less risky than having 500 miles of sludge laden pipe atop the Ogallala aquifer..

@stanleybmanly the safest bet would be build a refinery at the tar sands site and refine it to a state that wouldn’t be so environmentally hazardous if and when a pipe line fails, that would make more jobs in Canada, and if that aint going to happen then pipeline it east to our Canadian refineries that now have to import overseas to meet their needs.
But both our Governments seem hell bent on shipping it to you guys(the us) and screw any hazards that may crop up.