Do you think that taking a video of someone can change their behavior?

Wouldn’t it be better to direct his conversation to more interesting topics, rather than trying to humiliate him into being silent?

What? Where do you come up with “humiliate him into being silent”? Oh, you’re talking about the son. No…...you completely misread my post. The video isn’t to show the son. It’s to show the wife how her behavior, how feeding into the son’s annoying attention getting behavior actually encourages the behavior that they both want to change. She can’t see it. I’m wondering if she’s put in the position of a person outside, looking in, she could see it from a different perspective.

Oh! Yes, I definitely misunderstood what you meant. I think you’re still going to run into a difference of opinion where interpreting the behaviour is concerned. She thinks she’s doing one thing, and the two of you think she’s doing something else. From what you’ve posted, it doesn’t sound like the child’s or mother’s actions are in dispute – only the interpretation of what those actions mean, and whether the mother is reacting appropriately. Videotaping the event would not be convincing in and of itself, I think.

She thinks she is showing that she loves him. She alternates between being enraged at the kid, then turns around and enables his behavior.

I agree, in an of itself it wouldn’t do much. My friend has talked to her, and I wonder if that, accompanied by video where he could say, “Here. See?” might change her.

Very often we really don’t know how we are perceived, or even how we are acting, what kind of time is involved with an activity etc unless we set up a monitoring system. I think if she is amenable, it might help point out to her how much time is spent. She may be thinking “a few minutes”, but discovering that it’s really 15 might just help her re-evaluate.

At my kids’ school, if they had a pageant/presentation of some kind, we would sometimes video them (with everybody’s permission) before the opening to show them that they were, indeed fidgeting like crazy. They thought they weren’t, or they thought no one could see their fussing. It cut drastically down on the shuffling and bumping and giggling.

Lots of time with a therapist, a single video would be like a “silver bullet”, it is not that simple. She sounds like she needs help and a video would be ignored by her.

I’ve suggested that too @Tropical_Willie…..

I am not sure how old the kid is that you are talking about, @Dutchess_III, but my daughter is 7 and when she is getting ready for school (thankfully, she can now do most things herself), I will be getting myself ready at the same time and just constantly refocusing her on what she needs to do. “Is your hair brushed?” “Get your socks on.” “Come wash your hands.” If she wanted to get into a big conversation, I would probably tell her “there’s no time for talking right now. It’s time to hustle.” She understands “hustle” means “hurry.”

If this kid you are talking about really must have a conversation, I would say then they should wake him up 15 minutes earlier, so he can have his 15 minute conversation and time with his mother, and then he can start getting ready.

It’s all games, @jca. My concern is getting the mother to see that she is being manipulated into being part of the game. If they get him up 15 minutes earlier, he’ll go in and have a 30 minute conversation with her. He knows it’s making him late for school and frustrating his father.

If the parents allow manipulation to happen, it’s going to happen. If they shut it down, it won’t be able to happen.

Let us know if your friend tries out any of the ideas expressed here. It can be a bit of a trial to break these patterns!

That’s the problem, @jca. The mother doesn’t know how to shut it down, except by yelling, which, of course, just feeds into it. Then she’ll flip, probably out of guilt for yelling, and start feeding into it again, by acting like she’s taking his silly questions seriously.

@Dutchess_III: Then the mother has problems that no video is going to fix.

There are some issues there, totally. I even suggested counseling to my friend, but he was non-committal about it.
What I REALLY want to do is call Nanny 911!

Passive Aggressive but I’m not a Doctor.

@Dutchess_III: I wouldn’t get too involved in the issues of others if I were you. It’s their problem and they will work it out, and if they don’t, then they’ll be dealing with the consequences.

My friend is coming to me with his concerns. He’s asking for my advice.

@Dutchess_III: Yes, but if the parents are not willing to stand up and be firm, the child will walk all over them and this will be just the beginning. I’m not saying they should be dictators, but there have to be limits with things, especially when it comes to him manipulating them and then he and/or the dad is late.

I understand all of that @jca. I often watch him after school, and he doesn’t pull his passive aggressive stuff with me.

Maybe my friend just wants someone to talk to.

The mother is enabling the son to act that way.

I know. Trying to figure out how to show her that.

If you had a degree in Psychology and had years to fix it you might stand a chance. You as a non-therapist the saying from Robert Heinlein “Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.” would apply. She has a comfort zone she is in and will not change until it becomes uncomfortable. Which reminds me of how to cook a frog “slowly increase the temperature of the water in the pot”, they will not jump out.

There may be a reason why the mom allows this to happen. It makes her feel good, she was neglected as a child and so she does not want to feel like she’s doing the same thing, the list goes on and on as to the possibilities.

@Tropical_Willie, are you saying, that as a friend, I shouldn’t offer asked for advice unless I have a degree in psychology? If so, then none of you should even be commenting on this question unless you have a degree in psychology.

I know that @jca. I also know her mother. Pretty sure she was treated the same way she treats her son, alternating between rage and enabling behavior.

Advice yes, therapy no.

I have a degree in psychology. Changing someone view of themselves in a therapeutic manner in a family setting is best left to a professional therapist; preferably a family therapist, all in the unit need to change the way the react and interact with each other.

But he can’t force her to go, and she doesn’t see a need.

I don’t see how you, can make a change.
Maybe he and the child should go to the therapist.

It’s a mess. Mainly I’m just a sounding board for him.

You’re frustrated and so is he.

Here is a perfect example of the kinds of situations she sets up. This just happened today:

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Usually I only see Mom in the morning when she drops the baby off. My friend always picks the baby and her brother (I watch him after school) up after work.
Well David, the boy, had a sucker from his VD party at school, asked if he could have it. I said, sure, but he had to share it with the baby. So they did .
David was sharing perfectly with her.
Then Mom shows up. The baby climbed off the couch to greet her. As she was getting off the couch Mom said, “Was Bubba not sharing with you?”
I said, “Yes he was sharing.”
So she picked the baby up, but then the baby quickly wanted to get down and back to the couch of course, but Mom wouldn’t let her go. Baby starts screaming.
So Mom kind of flips her upside down and tickles her neck, and holds her up in the air, saying “You silly silly girl,” and the baby is just getting angrier and angrier and more frustrated, and the screams are rising to a crescendo.
Then Mom YANKED the sucker from David….and gave it to the baby, like it was somehow all David’s fault.
I said, “That’s David’s sucker.”
She said, ‘Yeah, but he wouldn’t share.”
I said “He WAS sharing.”
Inside I’m thinking “It’s kinda hard to fucking share when you’ve pulled the kid away from him and won’t let her go back.”
Apparently I got through to her a little, because a few seconds later she took it from the baby and gave it to David.

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Wouldn’t seeing herself in action maybe make her think? I mean, it was so obvious that her behavior was what was causing the baby to scream. Everytime she said something else, “Goo gaa,” or whatever, the screams would get louder.