Should one gender be more feared than another?

In my city, I don’t really, because it’s quite safe here. In other cities, I try to be more aware of my surroundings, and yes, of course I would be more watchful if followed by a man than by a woman. There is no reason to be surprised at this.

I don’t consider race to be part of the equation. If I leave my apartment right now, and walk ten blocks, I will probably encounter people of at least ten different ethnicities along the way. Of my three close neighbours, two are from different countries than mine. In other words, if I were going to be worried about the race of the people walking around me, I’d never leave my house. I don’t think about it.

A man seems more intimidating in this situation. You already know my gender right?

@dappled_leaves There are plenty of people who would say that there’s no reason to be surprised at feeling more threatened by one race than another. Why would one judgment fall into the “of course” category, but not the other?

@thorninmud Because men of all races have a possibility of being dangerous. If I’m walking alone on a dark street, and some creepy dude is walking close behind me, I’m not going to suddenly let my guard down because it’s a white dude. Oh, it’s a young white college guy! Well, HE certainly won’t be committing any violence today. Now I can rest easy.

@Haleth “Because men of all races have a possibility of being dangerous”

What I’m getting at is how is that different from saying “Blacks of both genders have a possibility of being dangerous”?

I’m going to flip this.
I, as a man, have felt slightly intimidated when casually walking & a woman, in front, clearly nervous, constantly casts a fertive look back in my direction.
This has happened only when our paths have crossed when, briefly at least, no one else is around, sometimes a walk can take in a fairly isolated route.
The intimidation manifests itself in as much that I actually find myself willing her to go in a different direction to the one i’m about to follow as a perfectly innocent man making his way from point A to B.
I feel bad for her & perhaps selfishly, but entirely understandably, bad for myself, or more from within myself that this woman actually feels threatened simply by my presence on the same patch of earth at the same time as her.
Not saying woman can’t feel that sense of vulnerability, but it can impact on the completely harmless & yet perceived threat…in that case, me.

But @ucme…I don’t get why you would feel intimidated by a woman taking obviously concerned, a little fearful, furtive looks at you? Annoyed, maybe. But “intimidated?”

I believe I covered that in my answer, no need to repeat, much less justify.

You said, “The intimidation manifests itself in as much that I actually find myself willing her to go in a different direction to the one i’m about to follow….” I just don’t see “intimidation” in that. You aren’t afraid of her at all. You’re just annoyed and you just want her to go away, go in another direction.

@thorninmud I would answer your question, but @Haleth nailed it. I don’t know why the answer isn’t obvious to you. It is to me. I think it would be to most women.

@dappled_leaves We sometimes benefit from taking closer looks at what has long been considered “obvious”.

Oh dear, putting words into my mouth with your own interpretation…again !!
I’m not in the slightest bit annoyed, she is obviously feeling threatened & to some extent, I empathise with that. Certainly no place for anger, intimidation comes in many forms, we clearly differ on the definition.

@thorninmud I understand what you’re saying, but from a woman’s perspective, it sounds like a desire to read bias or prejudice into a (sadly) very practical concern. I would love not to look at men as potential threats. That would be nice. If they were not a legitimate threat, I would do that. However, I live in this world, not a fantasy one.

And, as I already said in my first response, because I live in a relatively safe city, it is not something I worry about here on a consistent basis. I do not expect anyone around me to be armed in any way, for example, so I am less threatened here. I only consistently worry about it when I’m in a place where I have no way of assessing the risk.

Being a woman I’d fear the man more. Women don’t rape and assault other women and are less likely to be serial killers out trolling for victims. It’s just the way it is, no bias, just reality.

“Intimidation”: verb (used with object), intimidated, intimidating.
1. to make timid; fill with fear.
2. to overawe or cow, as through the force of personality or by superior display of wealth, talent, etc.
3. to force into or deter from some action by inducing fear.

@dappled_leaves “it sounds like a desire to read bias or prejudice into a (sadly) very practical concern”

I don’t think that this question implies any such desire. Maybe you’re doing the “reading into”.

The question, from my point of view, is more about what is and isn’t bias, or whether there is bias that’s OK and bias that isn’t OK. It seems, for instance, that society is coming around to the conclusion that profiling based on the kind of practicality that you invoke isn’t OK. So this question just explores where we should and shouldn’t make this kind of judgment.

Whenever someone says “mugger” most people I know would picture a man. I wonder how many female muggers are out there. I’ve been mugged by a man. Everyone I know who was mugged was attacked by a man.

I do get more nervous when I’m alone and there’s a man walking behind me. That just comes from experience.

From a purely statistical standpoint: Yes, men.

From a purely anecdotal standpoint, based on 43 years of being a woman essentially on my own (out of my parents’ scope of protection): yes, men. I have been physically threatened and/or attacked by men numerous times (mostly threatened, occasionally attacked), and physically threatened by women…once. In 43 years.

Practical consideration is the issue, here.

@thorninmud To be honest, I am surprised at you for asking a question like this, and I’m even more surprised that you seem to be doubling down. I don’t understand how anyone can be oblivious to the reason for a double standard in the case of sexes feared by women. It’s hard for me to even believe that I’m having this conversation with you. If you were anyone else, I would suspect you of trolling.

Haha, that’s okay @Dutchess_III you were clearly there at the time & read every thought in my mind.

I feel very intimidated when I have a man, or a group of men walking behind me, especially when I was younger. In fact, at college once I was walking down the side walk, in the evening, and a group of about 3 young men started following me. I was so nervous I crossed the street.
I heard one of them say, “Well, guess ain’t nothing gonna happen now.” I was so glad to get home.

Somehow, I don’t think any of those men would have been afraid, like I was, if I’d been walking behind them.

@dappled_leaves Why do you assume that I’m oblivious to the reason for the double standard? When have I said that women shouldn’t feel this way? I’m puzzled why this is a question that implies a particular stance at all, much less one that is surprising.

@thorninmud Because you question every answer given to you by women who confirm that men are the more feared sex. How much further do you need to deconstruct our answers, when the reason is staring you in the face?

I generally do not fear women in public but I am very wary to walk past a man alone at night.

Men are statistically more likely to be much larger than me, so it’s easier for them to overpower me. They’re statistically more likely to commit a violent crime on a random passing woman.

Yes it is a bias but it is grounded in reality.

@dappled_leaves “you question every answer given to you by women who confirm that men are the more feared sex”

Um, that’s the only kind of answer I’ve gotten so far. Questioning is not the same as disputing. As a scientist, why isn’t that clear?

There’s no telling how panicked she may have become, could have flagged down a passing police car, pointing me out & the officers would be duty bound to approach me & ask for an explanation…intimidation
She might have alerted the next person(s) she/we happened to come across, again placing me in an awkward position none of my own doing…intimidation
Like I said, I know how I felt & remain confident in my own definition, why you feel the need to argue this @Dutchess_III I really have no idea.

Well, you certainly weren’t the first male to make her nervous @ucme. It would get old panicking like that just about every day.
Somehow your “could haves” seemed pretty far fetched and fanciful.

@thorninmud to answer your original question simply, the answer is “Yes. Men are to be feared more than women.”

There is certainly a type of intimidation (good) men feel when they accidentally scare a woman. It’s intimidation, just a different type.

It may seem petty to women, when our fear is getting raped or murdered, that men fear false suspicion, but it’s still a fear.

Demand an explanation, assert wild assumptions over a person’s state of mind in an incident you were not party to, then dismiss out of hand as “far fetched” & “fanciful” to what in fact is an entirely accurate account of the whole situation, I end here.

@All The question isn’t whether men are or aren’t the most feared sex. That’s a given. And it also isn’t whether there’s a statistical basis for that fear. That’s a given, too. The question is more about when such things as statistics are a legitimate basis for bias and when they aren’t.

You lost me @thorninmud…

When I am alone walking at night, I can let prejudices and biases run wild all I want. If I feel in my gut there is a reason to fear somebody (particularly since those fears are based in something real, like statistics), it’s not going to harm them if I cross the road. It might make them feel shitty for two seconds, sure, but when the alternative is the possibility of getting raped or murdered, I am justified in any action I take, whether it’s sexist, racist, whatever.

@thorninmud Well, let’s not pretend there is anything scientific in this question, as it is presented. So let’s make this more focused – what is it exactly that you want to know? You don’t seem to want assault statistics broken down by gender and race. You imply here that you recognize that women should fear men more than women. Is your question about how to extrapolate statistical to other kinds of profiling? What kind of “benefit” do you want from what kind of “closer look”? The question feels like a kind of trap (specifically like an MRA trap, or like a “shouldn’t-all-Muslims-be-viewed-as-potential-terrorists” trap), simply because the answer is too obvious. You are a bit tainted by the company you keep.

Part of the reason that I personally am pushing back against this question is that women hear an almost constant barrage of language which undermines our experience. We are tired of being told that we can’t trust our instincts, especially when it comes to our behaviour around men, and their behaviour around us. That is a part of the context in which you ask a question like this, and a part of the context in which we answer it. I think that you must already realize that, but you seem to want me to verbalize it, so there it is.

As to your last comment, my response in a dark alley is going to be based partly on statistics, partly on personal experience, and partly on animal instinct. And my response in a dark alley is going to be very different from my response in a boardroom or a laboratory or a supermarket. The scenario you describe is not a great basis for extrapolation.

And let me beat you to the punch about assault statistics and race – I’m willing to concede that numbers of assault charges are likely greater among black men than among white men. I expect an arrest bias by law enforcement in those statistics. But I would be very surprised indeed if there were greater numbers of assaults of women-alone-in-dark-alleys by black women than of women-alone-in-dark-alleys by black men. It is the sex difference that matters here, not the race difference.

”....my response in a dark alley is going to be based partly on statistics, partly on personal experience, and partly on animal instinct..” Exactly. Especially based on personal experience.

@thorninmud And anyway… you might as well ask whether one crime should be feared more than another. I don’t actually give a shit whether I am robbed. I do not want to be raped, under any circumstances. So, obviously that affects which sex I am more wary of.

I honestly do not understand why this needs to be explained.

Interesting question. I’m not intimidated by either gender, but if I’m walking with a woman in a potentially “bad” situation (dark hallways, etc.), I always give her my back so she isn’t threatened. I haven’t noticed what I do with guys. I’ll have to watch for that next time.

If fluther isn’t for these types of discussions and questions where varied experience will definitely play into someone’s answer, then what is it for?

It seems most discussion is taken as argument here anymore, and I’m not sure where that leaves a question and answer site. Just hugs?

@funkdaddy excellent answer. I’m watching the back and forth and wondering why it’s so personal and rough.

@Dutchess_III OK, here’s an example, something that we’ve discussed before:

I own a pitbull. There are all kinds of statistics about how most fatal dog attacks in the US involve pitbulls. You read about these all the time in the news. People draw conclusions about what pitbulls in general are like based on information like this. So, when I take my pitbull out in public or to the dog park, I see the poorly concealed fear his presence arouses (when I happen to know that Sparky, the Border Collie over there, is the one most likely to rip their dog a new one). It’s not in the least bit surprising that people feel that fear. But there is still a vigorous debate about whether there’s anything intrinsically more dangerous about pitbulls, and I think that’s a debate worth having, and one that has real-life repercussions. If I tried to drive into Denver with my dog, for instance, he could be confiscated and destroyed.

That’s just one example of the conundrum I wanted to explore with this question. I would be a bit alarmed if I discovered in myself a fear of gay guys based on past experiences of abuse. Now, as a data point, no straight woman has ever abused me, nor have any straight guys. I could easily translate this data into a fear of gayness, but I’d like to think that I’m too progressive to think that way. And there are other assumptions regarding gender or race or religion or class where I’m also more inclined to override my personal data points.

It seems like there is a general societal trend toward questioning “obvious” assumptions of difference. I’m just taking this particular instance because it’s one that doesn’t seem to get the same level of scrutiny.

Well, as a couple of us have been saying, most of our wariness comes from personal experience. If you’ve only had bad experiences with pit bulls, then that, combined with statistics, is going to make you more wary than the people who have had nothing but good experiences with pitts.

My Mom used to be terrified of dogs, period.

Statistically speaking, men are far more dangerous then women. “Men commit more crimes than women. This pattern for serious crime is repeated in the US (88% male; 11.2% female). US Dept of Justice 2007.”

Simply by the numbers, it makes more sense to fear men than women.

The only issue I have with Pitbulls is that they do tend to be aggressive with cats.
I know a lot of really sweet PB’s that would never harm a human, are extremely well trained, but let a cat walk by and it’s all over. Because I have 2 cats I love dearly I would be very upset if a Pit killed one of my cats and I do not trust the majority of them in this case. Too strong a prey drive. I know someone whose pit killed their beloved house cat recently, they were shocked and traumatized and now do not feel they know the dog as well as they thought.

I think the dark alley scenario is not a fair way to judge people’s progressiveness. Like @dappled_leaves said, I will not react to a large unknown man with an iota of fear in a supermarket. I do not believe there is anything wrong with being a large man. But I have to put my safety first, above propriety, when I am walking at night.

Before we got our Dakota, the guy who owned her would let her out to run around the property where she’d kill cats. :( We were kind of worried, since we had a cat, but almost in an instant she learned not to mess with our cat, and, in fact, our cat became her cat who she will protect as fiercely as she’ll protect us

@Mariah Well, personally, I think it would be a mistake to equate “progressiveness” with denial of difference. I completely agree that the dark alley scenario isn’t a valid litmus test for an enlightened perspective. But I would say that to be progressive necessarily implies a willingness to examine assumptions of difference.

I’m not going to carry a gun around and shoot any man who is walking behind me; nor am I going to call the cops. But I might feel fear and walk faster. You are confusing a reasonable fear based on personal experience and statistics. I know you are trying to get at something or make a point with this, @thorninmud and I know you are not trying to be provocative but you’ve hit a nerve. And a feeling is a feeling and not the same as a prejudicial action.

A woman might wish me ill but it is less likely and even lesser likely that she will try to rape me. And I could take many women out.

I’m going to fear a man more. A woman would have to meet all sorts of criteria to make me nervous.

No, definitely not. I do feel more threatened by men, but I don’t for an instant believe that is what things should be like.

It isn’t an “assumption of difference,” @thorninmud. Every woman on here has personal experience to warrant concern.

@Dutchess_III Then what are the assumptions that are valid about differences in males and females, and which ones are not valid? See where that goes?

It really does not go as far as you seem to think it goes.

I’m not sure you have any idea what I think.

@thorninmud You’ve said it goes somewhere, and I think it goes nowhere. QED.

Give me an example of an assumption that is not valid @thorninmud. I’m truly trying to understand where you’re going with this.

@Dutchess_III I don’t know. It does seem, though, that If you accept that there are fundamental differences in what males are like and what females are like, then you open up the possibility of cataloging those differences. From there, it’s a small step to institutionalizing them.

Personally, though, I just don’t know.

Well, I tried to read through this whole thread, but it is sort of all-over-the place.

To answer the question in the OP, yes, I would feel more threatened if it were a man, even though I’ve never actually been assaulted or “jumped” or anything like that. But I’ve heard stories of male friends getting accosted by drunken males in front of a convenience store or on a dark street outside a frat party, etc.

Profiling is a complicated subject. I sort of feel that in principle, it’s wrong, but in practice, it might work. But it also might perpetuate the problems it points out. I simply don’t come off as very threatening, so what @ucme describes is not something I can relate to, but I have heard other men complain about this and it’s unfortunate.

One time I was walking alone in a dark street and I saw a group of guys coming toward me. Me—5’6” scrawny gay boy. At first glance I thought they were Hispanic and I was like “Oh great. Gonna get jumped.” When I saw that they were Asian, I breathed a sigh of relief. Call me racist, whatever. But here in the Bay Area, statistics speak. And that is what I believe was driving my feelings that night. Hard to say it was really “valid” though.

Well, then there are stereo types. If a woman has a great body many men assume you want sex as much as they do, and that has actually been said to me. “With a body like that, you’re just built for sex! Let’s have a go!”

@thorninmud Can we look at it a bit from an evolutionary biology standpoint? If you were a smaller, (potentially) weaker animal and a larger animal who might eat you was approaching, wouldn’t it make sense for the “fight or flight” instinct to be aroused? That’s very simplistic and not exactly analogous to males and females but I think there is something like instinct at play.

And I also think one can’t necessarily prevent sexist and/or racist feelings from arising at times, it’s what you do with them that counts.

Is there a difference between what we’re tallking about and teaching your son or daughter “street smarts”? Or even teaching your Black son how to act when stopped by cops? Does that mean all cops are going to harm him?

Overall, this thread is going quite well!

@janbb Yes, there’s an evolutionary logic to it. But then, there’s probably also some evolutionary logic to discriminating against groups that are unlike yours in any number of ways. We’ve had to reason our way out of a lot of that instinctual aversion to difference.

@Dutchess_III I think so, too!

The average man has more testosterone, more height, and more strength, than the average woman. It’s no surprise the average woman is aware men can overpower them. It’s simply not a fair fight. The physical differences matter.

Most men I know almost never feel afraid, but if they had to choose who is more likely to physically hurt them or rob them I would think they would say a man.

And every woman here has experienced aggressive men, who could care less about them.

I was sitting in my car recently at a strip mall fiddling around with my purse, etc. when, all of a sudden this completely crazy guy came around the corner, waving his arms and making jungle animal sounds. I am NOT kidding, the guy sounded like a freaking Howler Monkey. I swear I just sort of shrank down in the front seat, clicked my door locks and hoped he wouldn’t see me. The guy was certifiable, no doubt. he finally wandered off making Parrot sounds.

Scary and bizarre. lol

Men are more intimidating than Women because of size and physical strength. i work in Baltimore City where you are seven times more likely to be a victim of violent crime than NY City. I am a big guy and I always make it a point to maintain eye contact with people when I come in close proximity to them. I don’t consider the race of someone as adding to the fear factor. bad guys come in all races and colors. I don’t trust anyone out on the street and always try to be very aware of my surroundings.

Yeah, see, I do exactly the opposite of making eye contact. Many men view it as an invitation and it opens me up for unwanted attention.

Maybe we can flip it a bit as @1TubeGuru suggests. If you are a man walking down a dark alley, would you be more worried about a man following you or a woman?

It isn’t uncommon for someone to be walking behind me in the dark at this time of year and I don’t think anything of it. I give them a quick glance to assess who they are and that’s about it. Occasionally someone strikes me as being a bit dodgy and when they do they are always male and seldom of the ethnic persuasion. That’s based on experience in my home town where Chinese, coloureds etc are nearly always law abiding and just getting on with their lives. In another city it might be different.

Oh @flutherother, you probably could quell any threat with your Sean Connery voice.

@janbb That’s why I didn’t specifically address this Q to women. Personally, I would drop any anxiety if I saw it was a woman. But then, blacks also fear being attacked by other blacks more than by whites:

“Because of the reality that black males are statistically far likelier than any other demographic to engage in criminal activity, law-abiding African Americans, like their white counterparts, are much more likely to feel threatened by unfamiliar black males than by unfamiliar white males. In some U.S. cities, for instance, black pizza deliverers have expressed great reluctance to make deliveries to certain black neighborhoods, including, in some cases, those in which they themselves live.” source

@janbb My voice and my powerful 7 foot frame.

@flutherother The Sasquatch of Scotland?

@thorninmud: “Would you feel any difference in the threat level depending on whether you perceive the person to be a man or a woman?

If you feel that there is a difference, would this be more or less valid than a difference based on racial distinctions?”

Great question. I certainly would feel significantly more nervous/cautious if the person was male.

Disclaimer: The following is just an expression of my experience and in no way is provided as advocating any kind of racism. I think it’s important to be honest with how we truly react to evaluate the lens we’re seeing the world through – and to question its validity.

Regarding racial distinctions. I think it’s clear that we (or most of us) do make judgments based on many factors in evaluating risk. Height, number of people in a group, gender, race, posture, and location. But in my experience, these types of race distinctions vary depending on location and situation.

For example, when I lived in Quincy (just south of Boston), when I would come across 2+ Irish white kids while walking home, I’d be pretty nervous. But if I were to get closer and realize it was 2 Chinese guys, I’d breathe a sigh of relief. I’m not sure why this was. I could say that it was due to a handful of bad, threatening experiences by these young white kids in the area, or it could be that I have some kind of racist image of Chinese-Americans as being less likely to call me “a fucking queeah” and threaten to “cut my throat”. I don’t know.

When I lived in a rural central Massachusetts town, an African American friend came to visit. When she arrived, she was sweating and seemed quite upset. She pulled me aside and admitted that she felt like she was in Deliverance, and was just hoping her car wouldn’t break down “because [she] likely would’ve been in danger”. It was too white, and the environment too rural. I think we all have combinations of environments and people that make us feel more or less safe.

As for the validity – I don’t know. Sure, we know men are more of a threat. But there are other not-so-obvious things our bodies reveal about our other judgments. Heart rate increases and body tension are good signals that tell us much about who we see as a threat.

Anyway, fascinating question. I think it’s important to look at ourselves and how we view these things. Pretending to be color-blind isn’t going to help anything. And no – I didn’t take your question as having any other purpose than to provoke discussion. Fluther seems to be a safe place to discuss without having to advocate. There is no need to “win” here. Just talk.

Before I read the details, I would have said women.
Haha

But on a more serious note, I think it depends on context. In a supermarket or an elevator, I’m not really on alert for potential danger. In an alleyway, anyone is going to get my radar up. But, obviously, with a male there is an added threat of sexual assault.

But more than gender, I’m on guard for crazy. Because if you ask me to put money on a crazy female or an average built male, crazy chick is getting my money.

But that is based off of my experience. I guess copping a feel (by a male) counts as a type of sexual assault. But that didn’t compare to my getting physically assaulted by a female who was mentally unwell. Back story is a bit complicated. But it just comes down to which was more personally traumatizing to me.

Also, not a fan of pitbulls. I realize they’re all different depending on their owners. But having been attacked by one while walking home from school when I was little trumps logic.
It took several adults, including the owner, several minutes to get him off of my neck.

If I encountered the scenario in the details of the question it wouldn’t phase me at all, whichever gender. I’m more concerned with numbers, groups of people could be perceived as a potential threat, could be all male or a mix of male/female.

Because you know that you are capable of taking on any single man, and probably 3 women at at time, right @ucme?

Race does not affect if I feel afraid. I do admit that mannerisms and behavior does. If they are walking quickly closing in on me, if they are watching me in an odd way, if the man is looking around an unusual amount, if he is seemingly following me.

You might want to explain what you mean by “3 women at a time” @Dutchess_III
And no, wrong, groups are, by definition, potentially more intimidating.

If 3 women went after you with the intent to beat you up or rape you, you could could successfully fight them all off. That’s what I meant.

I’d imagine that a group of women that fired up & inclined towards violence, would have the physicality to back up their hostile intent.
Certainly not a gimme that a man would be capable of fighting them off alone, perhaps you underestimate certain women’s strength.

^^^
Well come on over here and see if you can fight off women in cowboy boots with spurs.
We’ll rope your little dogie but good. lol

That would be a calamity

In the scenario you described, I’d be feel more threatened if it were a male. It’s just as ‘valid’ as racial distinctions because they’re both formed off of prejudices. In fact, this scenario has happened to me, and it makes me feel terrible about myself. I’m racist and sexist in this sense, but I can’t really help it.
If it’s in our nature to classify people as “in” and “out” groups, then there’s nothing we can do about it.

I would definitely be more scared of males, because of my experiences.

I have been followed in cars at night on multiple occasions by men, I’ve been followed on foot by men, I’ve had a man shove his erection on my butt on crowded public transportation who would not leave me alone (it took another man standing up for me and trading places with me before I felt safe), I was given a date rape drug by a “friend” at 17, I’ve been called a “fucking bitch” who needed to be “taught a lesson” because I wouldn’t go over to a van full of guys – who then chased me down in the van and got out and ran after me, I’ve been almost physically attacked by a male stranger for trying to help my friend keep someone out of a bar area since he didn’t have ID (I was simply explaining the law, very calmly, and he was having trouble understanding since he was from Russia), I’ve been approached by a man while walking who was trying to get me to hang out with him, while on my way home, who kept looking at my feet – and then looking all around, very quickly, then back to my feet – and I happened to be wearing sandals that would have been hard to run in, I could go on and on.

Most of these incidences happened in my city – and it’s not even, statistically, considered to be a dangerous place. To put it into even more perspective, I live in the whitest major city in the entire nation – so you can guess who I’ve been mostly harassed by. It’s not just white men, but it’s mostly white men. I’m not more scared of men because they’re white, black, Mexican, or anything in between. I’m more scared of men because I have reasons to be. On top of the fact that I’ve been harassed countless times, they’re all bigger than I am, and most likely stronger. They aren’t prejudices… they’re realities. Women are not as violent as men, period.

That’s not to say that there aren’t any dangerous women, or that there aren’t any women who commit violent crimes, but statistically? The numbers don’t come close. And you can’t, easily, just say “this race does this more than this one, so it must be an inherent trait”. There are all sorts of things you have to consider. Like population, poverty levels (since poverty, in general, tends to produce more violence – no matter where it is), etc.

When all’s said & done, the most feared creature known to man is the Russian “female’ shot putter, a.k.a the Bearded Blubbaguts, true dat.

@DrasticDreamer ” And you can’t, easily, just say “this race does this more than this one, so it must be an inherent trait”. There are all sorts of things you have to consider. Like population, poverty levels (since poverty, in general, tends to produce more violence – no matter where it is), etc.”

I wonder if the same thing (“all sorts of things you have to consider”) can’t be said about violent tendencies in males. How much of the violent tendency in men is a result of the cultural soup they’re raised in?

I think that’s more than just an academic question. If men are just more violent than women, period (to invert your phrase), then there isn’t much to be done. If the tendency is due to cultural factors, those can be changed; not easily, of course.

We’ve basically decided to reject the proposition that “blacks are just more violent than whites, period”, which has allowed us to look for and address cultural factors that may account for the violence. If we hadn’t rejected that proposition, the conversation would be very different.

So is this also true of this question of male violence? I don’t know, but it’s an interesting question to me at least.

I would be afraid to be physically hurt by any man, but in my experience, I am afraid of women when it comes to things like deceit and vindictiveness.

Just came across an interesting bit of research that looks at the masculinity/violence correlation.

@thorninmud It’s not about a sex/violence correlation, though – the study only looks at violent acts by men. Kind of an odd study; I’m not sure there would be wide agreement on what quantifiable traits signify “masculinity”. It seems like an attempt to justify stereotypes.

@thorninmud Even if it is a statistical fact that black men are more likely to be violent in America today it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter because the likelihood of men vs women is so much higher, that even a higher number isn’t relevant. I’m not saying it well, but an analogy is both Caracas and Mexico City have a lot of crime. Let’s say the chances of being mugged are double in Caracas than Mexico (I have no idea the actual crime rates in those cities). It doesn’t mean I should be less wary in Mexico, because that city is still is so high it’s warranted to be cautious.

@thorninmud Men are more violent than women. Period. :P Statistically, as of right now.

However, I didn’t say that it’s necessarily an inherent trait. It could very well – and I personally believe, does – have a lot to do with how boys are raised. They’re shamed for crying, for expressing their emotions, for being sensitive, for disliking sports. All kinds of things. Men and women are damaged in numerous societies because of asinine beliefs. A lot needs to change.

I was just at a rest stop along I10. It was very close to dark out, the last minutes of dusk. Not one car, but probably 8 trucks and a couple pick up trucks. The walk to the building was a little longer than usual. A white guy walked in the building the same time as me and it made me feel like I need to be alert. When I got out if the bathroom a black guy walked in, I felt slightly less need for worry, because the black guy just had a casualness about him. Either way I know there is a man in the building.

@thorninmud – that’s an interesting study and thinking it through it must be something that’s really difficult to create a test for. They obviously spent a lot of time thinking through how it might be possible but I really have to wonder about the “outlets” they picked for masculinity.

For example, being married, with kids, full time employment, some college, and making over $15k a year puts you in the maximum category. I don’t think of those things as outlets for masculinity really and for someone under a certain age group (say 35?) it would be even less so. Those are responsibilities. People who take on responsibilities have others to think about. That would keep people from risky behavior, but I wouldn’t think it’s because those are outlets for anything, or even displays.

We all know that classic American manly man archetype, with his college degree, kids in tow, reasonable job, and wife who had to work late again so he’s stuck feeding the little ones. ~

I understand they needed something that was easy to quantify and that everyone would have a score for, but I think that’s the real weakness in that particular study. Unless I’m missing something, which is definitely possible, maybe I’m reading too much into the word choice of “outlet”....