Would you accept an offer to send your child to a Christian based private high school where 87% of the graduates go on to top ranked colleges, or leave them in public high school?

For me the question would be, is this your (your child’s) religion? If so, not sure why not, since it’s a great education.
If not, your child might have to be immersed in beliefs that are not his, and it might be uncomfortable.
Also, as in all cases, there is no such thing as a gift without some strings, no?

We chose to live in an area with a decent public high school and my kids did go on to “top ranked” colleges so I would say no. Aside from questions of religious affiliation, I am a big believer in supporting the public school system if it is not too detrimental to your kid’s well-being.

And hi there @skfinkel!

Hi Janbb!

I have to also nod to janbb’s response, which is to support the public schools in your neighborhood, if you can.

It would depend upon the child’s goals. Hopefully, I would be enough of an open parent to help my child to identify their interests and encourage them to peruse it. Sometimes, money isn’t an option. Determination is.

@Pied_Pfeffer Sometimes, money isn’t an option. Determination is.
How often does the determination make up for a woeful lack of money? Or should one say that the reason those in poor school or inner city neighborhoods don’t do as well as their upper middle class counterparts is they are not determined enough?

@janbb I am a big believer in supporting the public school system if it is not too detrimental to your kid’s well-being.
Just the ones your child would use or all of them, even if it meant a new tax or raising an existing one?

All of them even if it meant paying higher taxes.

I’d send ‘em provided I didn’t have to have my kid prove his/her undying loyalty to some all-powerful spook.

^ Spooks would only be found in public schools, maybe around Halloween and they are far from all-powerful.

I’d prefer to not have my child subjected to religious indoctrination. And, also, I prefer to support the public school system. And yes, even if it means higher taxes. In fact not too long ago I did vote in favor of a county-wide sales tax increase to fund the schools (and I don’t even have children).

No, I would not. Going on to a good college is not something I consider important.

Doubtful. It would have to be such a coming together of circumstance for me to do it. I probably would consider a Catholic school (I consider Catholics to be Christian, but for this Q I’m going to separate them from other Christians) if the public schools were dangerous, but a Christian school I would be extremely reluctant. I’d have to know the curriculum, and I’d want my child excused from religious class if there is one.

I’m a big believer in the importance of the public school system, so if I had kids I likely would have considered the schools before moving. However, sometimes your child has a better fit at a private school, and also in some parts of the country it’s really difficult to live near a good public school. Still, the idea of my children having daily influence of a different religion than my own being taught to them really bothers me. Especially one that figures I’m going to hell, and the teachers say who knows what about politics (are Christian school teachers allowed to show their bias about things like that?). Christians tend to talk the talk a lot. It’s not just school, it’s like a church. I can’t imagine actually sending my kid off to a school like that.

About just as likely as sending my kids to “Hitler’s School for Gifted Youths.”

I would. When I went to school (Catholic) there were Jewish kids there with us. There was even a Hindu girl. Our daily schedule included a Catholic catechism class. These kids got to go to the library during that period. That was the only difference. My Mom (raised a Baptist, not very religious at all, and a lovely lady) said they were there to get a good education. There were instances of Civil Rights disturbances in public schools at the time, but I’m not sure if that had anything to do with it. These were the suburbs of Sacramento in the early 60’s. Trust me, not much was going on.

Anyway, I don’t remember noticing any other differences among us kids (but there were times when I would have liked to have joined them in the library). I would expect my child to get the same equitable treatment I saw among my fellow students in my school days no matter which religion they were raised in, otherwise I would take them out.

I support the public school system with my taxes and my beliefs, but I would not subject my child to an inferior education if there was a better one available which I could afford. After protection, the parent’s main duty is to ensure that their children have the best tools possible to have a good life.

No. I think there would be enough social pressure to make it a coercive environment that, at best, would interfere with my child’s education. Also, much of education is non-academic; one learns to deal with all people rather than just one subset, so the lack of exposure to non-Christian society would also cause issues.

Lastly, I personally went to a pretty good public school system. While public schools in some places are rather inadequate, New England schools are amongst the best in the nation.

No one brainwashes me with religion! ~

Really, I never want to study in a Christian school. I don’t want to be involved in religion. I’m not a beliver and I don’t want anyone to force me to believe anything.

If the public high school was bad, yes I would, in a hot minute.
And, yes, I support all measures, tax and otherwise, for public school improvement.

First of all, most schools that have a Christian charter, that are fairly high-rated, have very little focus on religion. Maybe a course or two will be required, usually no more.

Secondly, I am a bit amused by those who talk about “coercion” and “indoctrination” in their posts. Have you guys ever met teenagers? The OP specifically mentions high school. Teenagers. Not a lot of indoctrination able to happen there. For those who haven’t raised children yourselves, think back to your own teen years. If you were not raised in a religious environment, and did not already adhere to the tenets of Christianity, how likely would you have been to convert because of a class in high school?

I have had a fair amount of experience with teenagers, and I can tell you, if teens were so susceptible to the influence of what the grown-ups tell them in school, they’d never get pregnant, they’d never do drugs.

No

I would if I lived in an area where the schools were shit, the teachers were overwhelmed and the other kids didn’t care, cutting class and not making school a priority. Fortunately, I live in an area where the public schools are really great and this is not an issue. If it were an issue, though, and my child’s future was at stake, yes, I would. I would also make sure that the Christian school was not fundamentalist, where they were preaching Jesus all the time.

Many of the best colleges in this country (Boston College is just one example I can think of offhand) are Christian. Someone in my family lived in a great area but the schools were not great and she was sent to Catholic elementary school through high school, and she was not indoctrinated, she just got a good education, one that included some religion (and we’re not Catholic) but I think it taught her some good philosophies and she is a very well rounded person.

If the kid is smart enough to succeed a the school, the kid is smart enough to not be brainwashed by religion.

My kid is going to be in the top percent of his class anyway and have his pick of where to go to University and there is NO WAY in hell I would send him to a Christian school. No. F*ing. Way.

It would be helpful to know the college acceptance rate for the public school before making a decision. And that “Christian school” thing is kinda vague. A Jesuit prep school is one thing, while Rapture High might well be a very different kettle of fish. Then there’s that “top ranked colleges” statement. Are these top ranked “bible” colleges as ranked by “believers”?

Thanks you for all your answers, no doubt they are sincerely honest. I guess I should not be amazed that when one mentions Christian School, everyone starts to think indoctrination, church, etc. and toss mathematics, history, science, calculus etc. out with the bath water. There were some interesting points I thought pertinent enough to comment on, but I will have to do that a little later, I have a Bible study to attend at the moment (to the chagrin of some, but I keep my mind fed and regulated by the Word), but I will get to them for they are quite interesting.

@Hypocrisy_Central I’m in full support of you keeping your mind fed and regulated by the Word, as you have said a number of times, it is what keeps you from not breaking those basic morals it teaches and I’m sure we all here can agree that is a good thing.

Depends on the local schools. My father grew up in an area with terrible public schools and was sent to a Christian school instead. It’s the main reason he’s not Christian anymore, but he definitely got a good education out of it. He didn’t go to a top college, but he went to one that was very good for what he wanted to study.

I grew up in an area with great public schools and was sent to one of them. I also received a great education, and I did go to a top college (as did many of the people who graduated with me). So I think it’s more about the school itself than whether it is private or public, religious or non-religious.

I also agree with @canidmajor that the religious schools with good reputations are more or less mutually exclusive with the ones that spend too much time on religion and not enough time on science. The local Catholic school where I grew up had a great chemistry teacher. A friend of mine ended up studying with him and then went to MIT for chemistry (which sounds impressive, though I don’t know enough college programs in chemistry to confirm that). She’s working on her PhD now at Berkeley.

I agree with everyone that said they would rather support state schools (in the UK private schools are also known as public schools, “normal” schools are known as state schools). Even though I have no children and am unlikely to have children in the future I would pay higher taxes to support state schools as it’s a real issue for me that if a child isn’t born into a wealthy family they are not worthy of the same standard of education that a rich kid gets.

As for the whole religious aspect of this question, it would depend on how much the religious side was pushed on the children. I went to a Christian primary school (ages 7–11) and the only time I can remember it being “pushed” on us was in the morning when we would say a prayer in assembly and sometimes the local vicar would come in but, even then then they never really pushed Christianity down our throats, they would just tell us stories with messages of good morals etc. We would also have to say a quick prayer at lunch time, ” for what we are about to receive may The Lord make us truly thankful”. If the school in the question was similar to this then that wouldn’t be an issue for me even though I wouldn’t choose to raise children in an overly religious manner.

Maybe, that would really depend on my kid. If they wanted to go, I would encourage them. Hard to say, I don’t have kids. If I did, would they be a believer or not? It’s not because I’m not one that my kid couldn’t be. Ultimately it would be up to them. Also, are we adversed to going to this Christian school even if we don’t believe, in order to benefit from the education it has to offer?

@elbanditoroso There is no link between intelligence and willpower. In fact, it could be argued that those of higher intelligence are more susceptible as they are more receptive to new information while those of lower intelligence cannot handle it and thus don’t absorb anything counter to what they already “know”.

@Hypocrisy_Central When a group does evil things for a few centuries, it takes a little while for ill will to subside. And when you have WBC, pedophile priests and homophobic politicians in the headlines, that kind of slows the whole forgiveness process, if not set it back.
Things would change if the followers of Christ who believe in helping the poor instead of cutting social programs and that judgement should be left to God instead of secular authorities (more likely corporate than governmental) were a bit more outspoken when it comes to denouncing their wayward brethren, but silence is complicity.

“I know of no one who has done more for humanity than Jesus. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Christianity, but the trouble is with you Christians. You do not begin to live up to your own teachings.” – Mahatma Gandhi

“I know of no one who has done more for humanity than Jesus.”
Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin, Albert Einstein, Marie Curie, James Maxwell, Michael Faraday, Alexander Fleming, and every other scientist and inventor that produced the knowledge and expertise upon which all of modern civilisation depends. Every single one of them, by him or herself, has done more for humanity than Jesus.

@ragingloli I think that line was necessary in order to give context to the rest of the quote though, so I left it in.

Well, let’s get to some of the more pertinent statements I think cover the group as a whole (at least based off the comments here).

@Darth_Algar In fact not too long ago I did vote in favor of a county-wide sales tax increase to fund the schools (and I don’t even have children).
I guess when you pit any school that has a religious base and higher taxes for secular be anyway school, higher taxes don’t seem as bad. Around this area it seem any time something hits the ballot about paying more taxes for secular public school, it is met with resistance because no one wants to pay more taxes. I guess the authors of any future tax measure should invoke religious private schools, and have voters flock to their way of thinking.

@JLeslie […if the public schools were dangerous, but a Christian school I would be extremely reluctant.
It sounds as if a dangerous secular school would still be preferred then having them in an environment where any exposure to the Lord was possible. Is that an accurate assessment?

However, sometimes your child has a better fit at a private school, and also in some parts of the country it’s really difficult to live near a good public school. Still, the idea of my children having daily influence of a different religion than my own being taught to them really bothers me.
Again, to have them in a secular school where they are exposed daily to cliquing, bullying, drugs selling and usage, partying, violence, theft, and the likes is still better than a school that would have much less of that simply because the school would dare admit a belief in Jesus? That is what it sounds like from this side, but I invite you to clear things up. ::-)

@Espiritus_Corvus I support the public school system with my taxes and my beliefs, but I would not subject my child to an inferior education if there was a better one available which I could afford
In a nutshell, that is what many saints do when they send their children to secular schools. If I had children and I could not home school them, and someone was willing to foot the bill to a top notch secular school, I would not be so selfish to not let them go figuring the imagined exposure to drugs, ramped sex, theft, bullying etc. would nullify the educational benefits they would gain.

@jerv I think there would be enough social pressure to make it a coercive environment that, at best, would interfere with my child’s education.
So there are no distractions in secular schools? Their education would not be hampered by pressures to sleep around, get high, have to keep up with wearing what is fashionable, etc.?

When a group does evil things for a few centuries, it takes a little while for ill will to subside.
Does that go for recreational drug users, playboys, and drunk drivers?

@canidmajor First of all, most schools that have a Christian charter, that are fairly high-rated, have very little focus on religion. Maybe a course or two will be required, usually no more.
That seems to be a point missed or flatly ignored the moment one mentions the school has any ties to Christ, even in the smallest amounts. As I said, it seems people will accept a mediocre secular school before a top ranked school with any faith based connection.

@jca Someone in my family lived in a great area but the schools were not great and she was sent to Catholic elementary school through high school, and she was not indoctrinated, she just got a good education, one that included some religion (and we’re not Catholic) but I think it taught her some good philosophies and she is a very well rounded person.
Imagine that, I guess she was one of the rare, rare exceptions to escape the rampant brainwashing that goes on there. ~~
If one investigates the evidence, those straw men people try to come up with would burn away like chaff.

@JeSuisRickSpringfield It’s the main reason he’s not Christian anymore, but he definitely got a good education out of it.
So, we should have high schools where bullying, drug use, toting guns to school, sleeping around with numerous baby mamas and baby daddies are abound a long with violence and cutting class, and when a person gets through it, they won’t do those things anymore? ~~~

“If one investigates the evidence, those straw men people try to come up with would burn away like chaff.”

Indeed. You don’t seem to want to accept any opinions other than your own as having validity.

@jerv

“In fact, it could be argued that those of higher intelligence are more susceptible as they are more receptive to new information while those of lower intelligence cannot handle it and thus don’t absorb anything counter to what they already ‘know’.”

I agree- the JW’s have totally given up on trying to proselytize my cat. ;-o

Still no.

@Hypocrisy_Central

So you didn’t actually want to discuss the issue. You just asked it to get smug and strawman any reply that did not agree with your own view. Big surprise there.

So there are no distractions in secular schools? Their education would not be hampered by pressures to sleep around, get high, have to keep up with wearing what is fashionable, etc.?

Those distractions still exist in religious schools. Being told not to do those things doesn’t eliminate the urge; it just adds more pressure as they have to be a bit sneakier about it because the punishment if they get caught is more severe. Fear is a distraction.

Does that go for recreational drug users, playboys, and drunk drivers?

There is a difference between those and genocide, which Christians have done historically. And while smashing someone’s car window to steal their stereo to buy drugs is bad, I think it pretty innocent next to drowning someone because they own a black cat. Consensual polyamory is less reprehensible than killing a man and raping his wife and daughters.

There is bad and then there is BAD, and I think that the lives of crackheads and players will be lost in the mists of history long before The Crusades and The Spanish Inquisition are forgotten.

@Hypocrisy_Central I’m afraid I don’t quite understand your response. For one, you seem to have ignored the context of the sentence you singled out for your reply. The story of my father is one in which someone was sent to a religious school and left with a good education and without the indoctrination that some people are worried about.

For another, you seem to think that the moral of my father’s story is “go to a school where _____ happens a lot and you will get students who don’t _____ after graduation.” But I don’t see how you can draw any conclusions like this without understanding the reasons behind my father’s renunciation of the faith he was raised with—reasons you haven’t even asked for.

I can understand why you might be distressed to learn that a Christian school may have led someone to become a non-Christian. But concluding that it was mere exposure to Christianity that caused my father’s conversion not only guesses at things you don’t know, it shows a remarkable lack of faith in your own religion. Surely you don’t really believe that merely becoming familiar with the tenets of your faith will cause people to turn away from it?

No chance. I have no children, but if I did, I’d be confident that they could enter a top ranked college if they wished regardless of what high school they went to.

All the crazy things you describe happening in public schools are not common here at all. Well, maybe the sex. And some of the drugs. But frankly, I consider religion a bullet to be similarly dodged.

@janbb Indeed. You don’t seem to want to accept any opinions other than your own as having validity.
There has been no counter I have seen to those who commented they or people they know has gotten a quality education from a religious school, or faith based ties, and did not come out Jesus freaks as so many have said, but not offered anything more other than their own aversions. Who does not want to accept opinions other than their own?

@Darth_Algar You just asked it to get smug and strawman any reply that did not agree with your own view.
You have something to offer as to why most have made it through a faith based school without becoming a Jesus freak? If you have something to offer that points out that anyone going to a religious school will be converted don’t hide the fact share it. And if you have further evidence as to why those who are in schools riddled with drugs, unwed mothers, thugs and thieves don’t leave being one of them, because if I were to take at face value a lot of what is being said, the sheer fact it is on campus is enough to sway students to become one of those.

@jerv There is a difference between those and genocide, which Christians have done historically.
Really? You are going to make a blanket indictment of faith based schools because of the crusades or the Inquisition? If we are to hold people of today accountable for ancient history, does that mean as a Black man I get to hold all white people accountable for slavery, even those who did not live here back then or whose ancestors did live here but never owned a slave and maybe even fought to free them? Do I get to hold every Asian from Japan, Vietnam, and Korea accountable for the wars fought against them? Why stop there, let’s bring in the Italians and the Germans for WWII, since we want to dwell in the past for pass grievances.

@JeSuisRickSpringfield The story of my father is one in which someone was sent to a religious school and left with a good education and without the indoctrination that some people are worried about.
I did not really comment on that part because I was giving people the benefit of the doubt they read it and understood it, from post after the fact, I guess I gave them too much credit, they either did not read it, or do not want to believe it is possible.

I can understand why you might be distressed to learn that a Christian school may have led someone to become a non-Christian. But concluding that it was mere exposure to Christianity that caused my father’s conversion not only guesses at things you don’t know, it shows a remarkable lack of faith in your own religion.
I only went down that road because you injected it into the conversation. If your father was a Christian, became a Christian, stop being a Christian, and to me it is irrelevant to him getting a quality education. So to mention how or if his faith change, got stronger, waned etc. was immaterial to what education he got. I have complete faith in my relationship in Christ and in the way of Christ. I already know many will take the wide, flat road and miss the narrow gate.

@Hypocrisy_Central You expect rationality when it comes to human nature? Phhhhttt!

I’m not arguing that it’s right, merely that it is. Whether it makes sense is irrelevant.

Russians still hold Germany accountable for WWII. The fact that Germany has generated enough goodwill to mitigate it to the extent that they have (the rest of the world no longer wants to firebomb them) in a relatively short time (~70 years) while Christianity still prompts a visceral reaction after far longer should tell you about the magnitude of the transgressions of The Church though.

Here is where it gets funny though. While recent Popes have been more progressive, with Pope Jon Paul II explicitly apologizing for many of the sins of the past, and the rest of the world has generally been benign, there are those like the WBC and the GOP that hurt reconciliation as they make Christianity seem just as intolerant as it ever was, as well as a resurging threat as they are infiltrating government and regaining political power after so many years of separation of Church and State.

As intimately linked as politics and religion are though, I would rather not turn this political beyond saying that my opinion is based on America’s radicalized brand of Christianity. If the school were outside the US and thus run by a more progressive sect than you tend to see here or if the decent-but-silent Christians were more vocal in denouncing the ones who perpetuate the causes of the animosity lasting as long as it has, I would consider it, though I would rather not be forced to leave the country just to get what “the best nation in the world” should have right at home.

Ths feels a lot like Oscar Pistorious without his prosthetics, he doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

@Hypocrisy_Central “You have something to offer as to why most have made it through a faith based school without becoming a Jesus freak? If you have something to offer that points out that anyone going to a religious school will be converted don’t hide the fact share it. And if you have further evidence as to why those who are in schools riddled with drugs, unwed mothers, thugs and thieves don’t leave being one of them, because if I were to take at face value a lot of what is being said, the sheer fact it is on campus is enough to sway students to become one of those.”

No, and I’m not going to even entertain it because you never asked such things. You asked about personal opinion, nothing more.

Furthermore I’ve not claimed anything about the religious leanings of most who go through religious schools. I’ve known some folks who went through public schools and turned out to be bright, upstanding folks who, I’ll wager, largely exemplify your idea of morality other than being atheist. Despite having been brought up in schools “riddled with drugs, unwed mothers, thugs and thieves”.

And I’ve known folks who went through Christian schools that turned out to be drug pushers, thieves and who would be in church each Sunday while Saturday they’re out sucking any cock they can find. (But let me guess – they’re not Real Christians™, right?)

Again, you’re doing nothing but setting up strawmen. You’re not interested in any kind of actual debate. I can only surmise that your only interest with this thread is to stir shit so you can make these asinine responses because it allows you to feel smug and superior.

@Darth_Algar He does this, actually thinks he’s pushing our buttons & making us think differently, fucking hilarious.

@Hypocrisy_Central How often does the determination make up for a woeful lack of money? Or should one say that the reason those in poor school or inner city neighborhoods don’t do as well as their upper middle class counterparts is they are not determined enough?

There are plenty of examples of people rising up out of poverty to do spectacular things in their lives. It is often due to their nature and the people who support them. It still comes down to the individual’s determination.

A prime example is given in the movie Hoop Dreams. If you haven’t seen it, it is about two Chicago inner-city boys who aspire to be professional basketball players and their journey to achieve it. One of these boys, Arthur Agee, ultimately took a different path. He started a clothing line with the slogan, “Control Your Destiny.” Doesn’t that equate to determination?

The mission statement of the Arthur Agee Role Model Foundation is “to help underprivileged kids to understand that their role models are not professional athletes, but their parents at home”. This is a sad, but true, statement. Not all people are cut out to be good parents. If one doesn’t grow up in a home environment where they are encouraged and challenged, it takes a very determined person to overcome it.

@Pied_Pfeffer chuckling to myself – couldn’t figure out why a clothesline would have a slogan.

@janbb Edited based upon your comment. And thanks for actually reading it.

@janbb

Well for most clothing lines it’s about marketing because catchy slogans appeal to large numbers of people.

Yes, I know. The joke was on a misreading of the words clothes line as clothesline. PP understood.

@Darth_Algar My original post said, “clothes line” instead of “clothing line”, thus the initial mislead.

@janbb Thanks for the laugh at my own expense. I know I have a sense of humor, but it isn’t often enough that it rears head instead of hiding under a rock.

I would.

It’s not MY decision.
I would discuss with my child and respect his/her opinion.

You don’t have kids, do you! I’m not saying that you don’t take their opinions into consideration, but the bottom line, it’s the adult’s decision, not the kid’s.

Consider the 17 year old who refused chemo for her Hodgkin’s. “Cassandras’s mother, Jakie Fortin, told “CBS This Morning” in January she thought it should be Cassandra’s choice whether or not to undergo chemotherapy.”
Well, the state took custody of the kid, forced her to undergo chemotherapy, and now she’s in remission. And gosh. It wasn’t nearly as bad as she thought it was going to be, either. If she had known it wasn’t that bad, she wouldn’t have refused chemo.

Most 12 – 17 year olds have no idea what they want after school. They wouldn’t understand the importance of having the benefits of going to such a school.

Kids want to play and frolick around with their friends. Given the choice, they would not go to school at all. You know that is true, you have all been children once.

The question was specifically about high school. Lots of thosr children like school, and have more on their minds than “frolicking”. It is inappropriate to judge all against your frivolous self.

I liked school. Left to myself though, I would have stayed in bed and slept through the first 3 periods.

@wsxwh111 said: “I would discuss with my child and respect his/her opinion.”

They did not suggest to put all responsibility on the kid…and yes, children absolutely need to weigh in on important life decisions once they’ve reached a certain age.

He also said, “It’s not MY decision.” which suggests he does put all the responsibility on the kid. If it’s not his decision, whose decision is it?

^ I read it as “not his alone”. I may be wrong.

He had quite a bit of emphasis on the “MY.” I mean, I totally agree that you include the kid in the process, but in the end, as their parent, it’s all on you.

It would depend how heavily the religious aspect was pushed. Will my child have to attend assembly where prayers are said each morning and/or one lesson of ecumenical religious instruction each week or will they be brainwashed at every opportunity? If it’s the former, sure. I would expect exposure at home to information and ideas that contradict such religious instruction would help my child to critically evaluate the ideas and information being presented and form their own decisions. If they are to be brainwashed, then no. It would also depend on the child’s age.

I would have loved to not go to school. Started too early in the morning and I liked watching TV much better.

Kids also might choose to go to a school that their friends go to, which of course might not necessarily be the best school for them. I took what @wsxwh111 said as meaning to go solely with the teen’s choice. I wouldn’t go that route. Kids need guidance and often don’t see the bigger picture that adults might (hopefully) see.

Exactly @jca. In her Jr. year my daughter suddenly announced that she wanted to go to an alternative school here in town. It was a small school. The students were comprised of trouble makers who had gotten kicked out of the regular schools. Of course I said she could not go. She said the VP of the school was the one who had suggested it.
I called the VP and just gave her hell. How dare she presume to make decisions for MY child!
She sanctimoniously said, “Maybe your daughter just feels like she doesn’t fit in her.”
I yelled, “Or maybe it’s because it’s where her friends go now!”
Long story short, she transferred to that school. Within 3 months she’d dropped all her extra curricular activities, such as working with the boys wrestling team, and her after school job. Then she dropped out of school altogether. Never did graduate. When she was 18 she had her first baby. That was 12 years ago. It’s only been recently that she’s started pulling herself together.

@Dutchess_III Education is more than just academics though. Now, given a choice between a school that produces academically excellent people who lack street smarts or social graces or socially well-adapted graduates of only moderate academic achievement, which would you pick?
Personally, I think the latter is more likely to get a good job. If I were in charge of hiring somewhere, I would prefer someone who may require a little training but can get along with other people over a more competent person who causes social friction.
Now, I don’t know the specifics, but it’s possible that a school full of troublemakers and ne’er-do-wells isn’t just a dumpster where they throw the castaways, but rather a place where they offer services that a regular school does not.

Remember that being responsible for someone is NOT the same as owning them, and sometimes what is best for those you care for is something that you do not particularly like.

@jerv I knew what was going to happen because I know my daughter better than anyone else on this earth. I knew it was a horrible decision, and I was right. She immediately dropped out of all the activities that made her feel good about herself, then dropped out of school within 3 months, and then started trying to create a family. She wound up a single mother to 4 kids and it has been an unbelievable struggle.

I strongly believe that if she had stayed in the regular high school she would have graduated and I really think the outlook would have been much better.

That woman had no right to plant that idea in my daughter’s head without talking to me about it first.

My daughter assumed, as I did, the alternative school was for kids who had been kicked out of regular school. Neither of us knew you could actually request to go there. Until the idiotic VP told her. She should have just kept her mouth shut and talked to me, and respected my decision.

Oh, and BTW, when her class graduated she attended and cried through the whole thing.

@Dutchess_III People try to plant bad ideas in my head all the time. (Not that I don’t have enough bad ideas of my own anyways.) Does the fact that I am an adult make it somehow less wrong? And isn’t learning how to deal with that sort of thing educational? I know I use my bullshit filter more than I use quadratic equations or knowledge of 19th-century US History.

Also, that sounds like some of my classmates at public high school. The same high school that sent many students to top-ranked colleges also had those like your daughter; a girl I went to school with from 3rd to 9th grade had her fourth kid by the time I graduated.

Yes, as an adult, with experience, if you get sucked into a bad idea, it’s your fault.

She was not an adult. That was the problem. She was 16. I don’t know what she learned from it, if anything. I just know it threw her way off track. The people who were supposed to guide her, and not just me, really let her down. The people who were guiding her threw her off track. It sucked.

Oh, and she didn’t have her first baby in H.S. She was 18. Had her last two, 2 years ago.
She’s 29 and not having any more babies! But she has a far different life than I think she would have, had she graduated from high school. Thanks to one ignorant, arrogant, high school vice principal.

@Dutchess_III I don’t think you can blame all of that on the principal. Or even on the school for that matter. I’m sure there must have been a lot of things going on.

@Dutchess_III Couldn’t you have just said no?

@Dutchess_III

I’m curious as to how a mere transfer of schools caused all your daughter’s problems. Are you sure you’re not just using that school/the vice principal as a scapegoat?

We often make the mistake of thinking “if only ___ had happened instead of ___ then things would have turned out like ___”. We also often make the mistake of thinking “after this, therefor because of this”. Things in life are rarely that simple or clear-cut however.

@Dutchess_III Given the amount of advice from both the school and my mother than I ignored in favor of a third path, I have to agree with @fluthernutter and @Darth_Algar that it isn’t just the VP to blame here. I know that if I’d listened to my guidance counselor, I would’ve been fucked, and my mother… well, she tends to have her objectivity clouded, so I’ve always taken her advice with at least a grain of salt.

I don’t blame everything on the VP. There were a lot of other factors involved. Lots. Going back years. Stuff the VP had no idea about. I knew that going to that school was the worst thing that could have happened at that point. Up to then she was in after school activities, her grades were good, the teachers liked her…then she goes to the alternative school and her life is in shreds three months later.

It was the “fuck the world” attitude the students in that school had, @Darth_Algar. Most of them had been kicked out of the regular school and this was their last shot. In the end, maybe 4 or 5 of them ever graduated. The rest dropped out (and we’re talking about one class room of about 15 kids.)

So what was going on in her life that gave her the same “fuck the world” attitude? A kid doesn’t go from being a good student doing extra curricular activities to being a dropout (and in a mere 3 months time no less) just because their classmates have a poor attitude.

I think at that age (teenage years), their friends have a huge influence on them. I can see where the “fuck the world” attitude of the classmates would make @Dutchess_III daughter think that’s the way to go.

She was very susceptible to influence, which is something the VP didn’t know about her. There were just some issues, hell, going back to the day she was born. I don’t know if she had depression or what, but it was a BATTLE to hang on to her. I must have done something right, because up to that point she was doing OK. Her dad abandoning her when she was 7 really messed her up too. Messed everyone up. Just a LOT of stuff. Her friends, the reason she went to the school, dropped out, so she did too.

Oh, and she never really had that “Fuck the world” attitude. Not deep down in her soul. She just copied. She was fragile and very compassionate.

Well, @Dutchess_III, I don’t think all kids are like your daughter, and I’m positive that most are not like me either. Should statistical outliers like her and I be used to set rules for every child?

I will say that if she was that susceptible to influence, she probably would’ve been smoking weed before her freshman year, and had her first kid before her Junior year. That didn’t happen though, so I think that the same thing was just as likely to happen had she not changed schools; it sounds like she was headed for a breakdown anyways.

Often the ones who seem to be doing the best are the ones that are suffering the worst. Somehow, it seems that the mental health of teens is judged solely by grades and extracurricular activities though; so as long as you’re on the honor roll and involved in clubs, you “must” be alright.

I think the school easily could have added to @Dutchess_III‘s daughter’s problems and attitude.

@JLeslie True, but I’m not convinced that her old school didn’t also add to the problems. If you ever went to Nuke School, you’d find out what “pressure to perform” can do to a person, especially one who has had anything traumatic in their home life, like… oh…maybe, losing a parent. And you might be surprised how long that stuff sticks with you, assuming it doesn’t just outright scar you for life.

@jerv I’m not saying the final school was the only problem. I’m only saying school, and the peers the child is around, have a huge influence.

@Dutchess_III could they have transferred her to another district school first, before the last stop school? I remember when I was growing up students were bounced a little from school to school before going where the “bad” kids were sent.

My point is, it was my kid, my decision. It was not the VP’s decision. She had no right to even suggest it to my daughter without talking it over with me first. I yelled at her that she wasn’t the one who was going to have to deal with the aftermath of this decision, every day for the rest of her life. Corrie will walk out of that building and the woman will never think of her again. The VP took great offense at that.

She was doing OK in the regular school. She’s always been a good student and her teachers like her.

@jerv ”I will say that if she was that susceptible to influence, she probably would’ve been smoking weed before her freshman year, and had her first kid before her Junior year. ” As I said, it was a battle hanging on to her, not letting her slip away. Perhaps I was simply successful, as a parent.

I had a sister who had the same temperament. She WAS smoking weed before her freshman year. She was very promiscuous and used drugs heavily, so I knew what my daughter was headed for if I didn’t hang on to her.

My mom couldn’t hang on to my sister because she had the same, depressive temperament and she drank. She added to my sister’s problems instead of helping her over come them or help her handle it.

That’s a history the VP had no inkling of.

@Dutchess_III “My point is, it was my kid, my decision. It was not the VP’s decision. ”

But then… I don’t understand why you’re angry at the VP. Couldn’t you have decided for your daughter that she was to stay at the good school? And told the VP that you had rejected her suggestion?

She was 16. She had the idea planted in her head, and she thought that’s what she wanted to do. I knew it was a battle I would lose.

@Dutchess_III I guess I get that. But there’s nothing anyone can do to keep people from giving their children ideas. I think maybe your anger at the VP is a bit disproportionate.

What happened happened, and people made the decisions they made – the VP, you, and your daughter. The VP is not solely responsible for how things turned out.

If it had happened to you, and it was your daughter’s life on the line, I suspect you might feel a bit different.

Fast forward a year. My son comes home an announces he’s going to the alternative school.
I said, “Why?”
He said, “Mrs. VP said I can work at my own pace and graduate 6 months early. Or at least complete my required credits 6 months early. Then I can drop out and get a job, and graduate with my class in May.”
I wasn’t nearly as upset because my son is a different person, with a very level head on his shoulders, but I’m like,“Is that woman an idiot?”

So I went to the school, tracked dipshit down and said, “You did it again. Pointed one of my kids toward the alternative school. Again, without discussing it with me first. Well, in this situation I would have approved it because I think he’ll be OK. I know my son, like I know my daughter, but I am telling you this, since you didn’t involve me in the decision making process again, if it derails his life, like it did his sister’s, I’m coming after the school district and YOU personally. Do you have any idea where Corrie is in her life now? No, you don’t. But I can tell you it’s a pretty dark place. So this better work out.”
And I turned and walked out. I think she tracked his progress pretty closely.

@Dutchess_III “My point is, it was my kid, my decision”

And you made the decision. You could have said “no”, but did not. Your anger is misplaced.

As I said, I did say No. My daughter promptly said she would just drop out of school. She meant it. It was a battle I could not win. I was left with the lesser of two evils to choose from. I stayed in touch with her teachers. Did what I could do to make it successful but…anyway. Water under the bridge. She’s in a good place now. Took years, and continuing help from me, but she’s in a good place.

No, my anger is not misplaced. She was a minor. The VP should have called me if she had some concerns. She should have involved me in the decision making process before giving my daughter that option. As we said, we thought you had to get kicked out of school to go there. It was news to both of us. She would have never considered it otherwise.

It sounds as if your daughter was headed down her path regardless of schools.

As I said, it was a battle to keep her safe. It was a battle to keep her from going down that path. And this didn’t start when she hit puberty. It’s something she was born with. I think it was depression. My mom and one of my sisters had it. My sister was wreck. She really hit rock bottom for many years. Drunk all the time. So I knew what could happen and I was going to do everything in my power to stop it.
Putting her in the “bad kids school” escalated what may have happened anyway. Or may not have happened. One thing for sure, dropping out was a decision she regretted horribly. She went to her class’ graduation and sobbed through the whole thing.
But, in the end, I think we have won.

@JLeslie I think the school easily could have added to @Dutchess_III‘s daughter’s problems and attitude.
Let this thread tell it, it was still Better than being in a school full of Jesus freaks or funded by believers.

Huh? I couldn’t afford private tuition. She was in a public school.

^ This thread is saying even if someone else footed the bill (tuition), don’t do it if the school is funded by believers, continuation school would still be better,

Oh, that’‘s right. I lost track of the original question! To re answer it, as an agnostic, looking the numbers ”...Christian based private high school where 87% of the graduates go on to top ranked colleges… ” I would definitely send my kid there. They would have come into their beliefs by H.S.

^^The principal should have spoken to you first. Talking to the kid first is manipulative and sabotage.

Thank you @JLeslie. People in positions, such as those in a HS, have so much influence over the kids. I don’t think many of them take the responsibility of it seriously enough.

I don’t know that a school principal has to speak to a parent before discussing options with young people. It depends on the circumstances of the conversation. Here, children might visit guidance officers or the principal to talk about all manner of things and parents aren’t consulted prior to each consult. The conversations about alternative pathways might have been spontaneous and low key. If the kid was called to the office and a formal conversation took place about where their future schooling should take place, then fair enough, the parents should be involved.

My daughter ended up going to a particular school because representatives from a local school that ran a language immersion program visited and she attended it. I can’t say that would have been my first choice for her, but it was what she wanted to do and I could hardly criticise her for wanting to take a more difficult path. I wasn’t invited to that session and didn’t even know about it. My son wanted to go to a local school because they had a strong soccer program and his friends were going there. They each had input into the decision-making process.

I think by the time our children are planning to go to high school they should have input into where their schooling takes place. While their decision-making might be driven by where their school friends are going, they may also have a good sense of what they want to achieve from high school. Even if it is about their peer group, separating them could be a negative rather than a positive influence. In addition, we have to give our children some control over their lives. It can’t just be about parents dictating the terms. Consequently, I don’t think parents should be involved in every conversation. Young people deserve to be shown they have a degree of agency over their futures. I’m not saying this is true of @Dutchess_III, but there are situations where the parent can have a negative effect on the child’s outcomes so speaking to the child directly might be in their best interests.

Well, I had one kid who survived the “suggestion” and one kid who didn’t. I think when the idea of switching schools comes up, the staff needs to be trained to talk to the parents first. In Corrie’s case I would have said “No. That can’t be an option.” In my son’s case, since he had a reasonable and valid reason for wanting to go, I would have said, “Yes. That is an option for him.”
This whole off topic discussion started when @jca pointed out ”..Kids need guidance and often don’t see the bigger picture that adults might (hopefully) see.”

@Earthbound_Misfit Except @Dutchess_III kid was sent to sort of a last stop school if I understand correctly. Meaning, kids who have been expelled, or the school doesn’t want to deal with that child. Any child who has a chance of avoiding that probably should, because many of the kids in there are apathetic, angry, and self destructive.

@JLeslie Except her son also went to the same school to work at his own pace and graduated early. It seems to me that the issue is not with the school itself. The issue was that the school was not the best fit for Corrie.

But that’s not to say that the traditional school was any better. As @jerv already mentioned, grades are not always the best indicator that a child is doing well. She wouldn’t have been speaking with the VP and looking for alternatives if things were just fine.

Good grades, and the fact that she was involved in extra curricular activities and had an after school job while she was in the regular school, all of which made her feel proud of herself, are all I have to go on. The fact that she dropped all of that within 2 weeks is all I have to go on. And yes, it was a “last chance” school.
You know, maybe school in general wasn’t a good fit. Maybe I should have never sent her to school. I mean, really @fluthernutter. If neither was a good fit what were my options?

@fluthermutter It seems to me that principal was lazy. Why couldn’t her son finish up school quickly at the first school? That’s what I did. I finished mid senior year by doubling up on classes. Why did the principal want to move her to a different school, I really don’t trust the principal’s intentions. If he had only good intentions it would have been discussed better with @Dutchess, and then to do it again after the first time?! He is an ass.

Being left out of the decision making process is what griped me. To be told, very smugly and sanctimoniously that “Maybe your daughter doesn’t feel like she fits in here,” like I don’t know my daughter! She didn’t feel like she fit in anywhere. But then again, what teenager does?
I responded “Or maybe it’s because her friends are going to the alternative school!” And that, indeed, was her whole reason for wanting to go there.

Yes, she was an ass.

Your daughter probably would have benefitted from being fast tracked also. They don’t do it enough in America in my opinion. Lots of kids drop out of high school with enough credit hours, or very close to it, but not having the required classes necessary to graduate. A lot of children hate school for social reasons, or other reasons, and if they can see the graduation light at the end of the tunnel closer, and very specific classes to attain a faster release from the school prison they often can buckle down and get through.

That’s something to have considered. The VP should have called a meeting with me if she was so worried about my kid. However, I think she had the impression that I somehow didn’t really care or was too stupid to know what was what. Perhaps because we were so poor.

@JLeslie Not always. As it was, I was already almost the youngest in my graduating class (out of 160 classmates, only 2 were younger than me, and only by a couple of weeks) yet our school system offered to let me skip a couple grades and go straight from 4th grade to 7th. The difference here is that my mother and I agreed that it was a bad idea since i was having enough social problems with kids close to my own age who’d known me for years.
Ironically, near the end of my junior year, my guidance counselor told us that I was missing a year of English due to the vocational class I took and thus wouldn’t graduate on-time because I still needed another year of English. (I wound up getting an independent study for my last year of English and graduating on-time since the school system felt it easier to do it that way than to deal with my mother.) But with things like that pretty much defining my childhood, with everyone else thinking they know what’s best for me, I think you can see why even to this day I have a bit of mistrust for authority; a mistrust that made my Navy years…. difficult.

@Dutchess_III As her mother, I have no doubt that you did what you thought was best for her. I’m also not trying to say that the alternative school was necessarily the better option.

What I’m trying to get at is that while it’s tempting to get caught up in the whole “Option 1 didn’t work out well. If only we had chosen Option 2, everything would have turned out better.” type of thinking, that’s not usually how things work. It’s rarely that black and white. (It’s even more tempting when Option 1 wasn’t something we would have chosen for ourselves.)

I’m not just talking out of my ass. My family has had its share of mental illness, single mothers, drug abuse or what-not. My family perpetually dwells in the land of what-if and if-only’s. It’s both unproductive (looking back) and detrimental (moving forward).

There is a particular kind of empowerment in owning both your successes and your failures. My parents were always making excuses for us. And while I understood that their intentions came from a good place, it was disempowering.

Regardless of which school would have actually been better for Corrie, I can see how the VP would make that recommendation. It wasn’t like your daughter was failing her classes and the school was trying to get rid of her. If anything, her good academic record, extracurricular activities and job would seem to indicate that she would have done fine in a more self-directed environment.

I would guess the VP’s “smugness” was less about you being poor and more about how you had no idea how unhappy your daughter was at her current school. This was unfair of her, as teenagers aren’t exactly known for sharing everything with their parents.

But even after you find out, you seem to be in denial. Well-adjusted kids don’t consider dropping out as an actual alternative. (I’m guessing that if it was just an empty threat, you would have called her bluff on it.)

And when a kid is in trouble, the school is just one factor of many. My siblings and I all went to the same school. With very different results.

@Dutchess_III Theoretical discussion aside, I’m really sorry you had to go through all of this. I can only imagine how painful it must have been to feel your daughter slipping away. If only the love we had for our children was enough to shield them from all of this hurt. :(

[hugs]

@fluthernutter I don’t dwell on the what ifs.
I’m also not in denial. I knew she was an at risk kid. I’ve always known it.
I never said she was “well adjusted” anywhere above.
I never said school was the only factor.
I said she had issues going back to when she was a baby.
I said keeping her on a good path was an on going fight, one which we won, in the end.

One time, when she was 15 or so, she gave me a poster for Christmas. It was of a storm. Black clouds, black, stormy seas crashing against lighthouse rocks. Among all of this blackness and storm, there was a light house light shining through, cutting through the blackness and the clouds and the wind. The title was “Beacon in the Night.” That’s how she felt about me.

And thank you for your comment above.

@jerv Well, I was 16 when I was done with secondary school, so was my dad, and my mom was 17. My dad did 3 years in 2 in Jr. High. I was the youngest in my class and then did my senior year in one semester. My mom hated school and doubled up and maybe took summer school, I don’t remember, to be done after her junior year.

There is a huge difference between being fast tracked when you are very young and very smart, to doing whatever you can to get the hell out when you are in your final years of secondary school.

A boy going from 4th to 7th grade sounds insane to me. I would only do it in a school specifically set up for that, with many children in the same situation, or seek a completely different option like homeschooling. I think when in doubt most boys are better off being one of the older in their grade.

I don’t think the parents always know best, and I certainly don’t think parents know everything going on with their kids Sometimes, some adult advice and help not from parents can be a positive thing, a place for children to vent at minimum, but unless the kid is suicidal because of their parents, the parents should be included in decision making about education. Even if the kid is suicidal probably in most cases the parents should be included. Children aren’t to be trusted in their perception of situations and consequences of their choices and actions.

@JLeslie “Children aren’t to be trusted in their perception of situations and consequences of their choices and actions.”

Neither are adults. Adding an 18th candle on the birthday cake doesn’t mean you’re wise; I’ve seen too many stupid adults to trust them either. In fact, I trust teens slightly more since they generally aren’t too set in their ways to listen to reason the way many older folks are.

Who is talking about 18? You are using legal definitions. I think most people become adults and have some real perspective around age 30+. Most parents of school age children are 30+. You can’t tell me at 10 you had as much wisdom as you do at 40.

I’ve seen countless 30 year-olds (and above) who have less wisdom and sense than many teenagers I’ve encountered.

I’ve noticed that most 4 – 11 year olds have more common sense than teenagers!

@JLeslie I use 18 as that is what the US considers “adult”... though I’ve also heard “24 is the new 18” as 24 is about the age most finish college.

Even though it’s been nearly a decade, there is a thread in a Shadowrun gaming forum that I find relevant whenever the topic of age, maturity/wisdom, and legal definitions comes up. I think this post is probably one of the best in the thread, and the second paragraph of it is basically a longer version of why 24 is the new 18.

I present the link here merely as food for thought.

@jerv I really don’t know where you are going. I’m not talking about specific ages. I’m talking about high school kids and their parents. Most children have parents that are 16+ years older than themselves. I’m 47 and I think the adults I know who are 65 have more life experience than me and some wisdom I can learn from.

Sure, some adults, some parents, are out of touch or don’t understand their child well, but for the most part no one lives or worries about the kid more than his or her parents. Plus, the parents are responsible for their children so it’s just usually reasonable and expected that parents be included in major decisions affecting their kids.

Sometimes parents are clueless about what is going on with their children, probably more than sometimes, because kids don’t tell their parents for many reasons. They think their parents will be angry, they are embarrassed, they don’t want to upset their parents, they think their parents won’t understand, all sorts of reasons. If another adult gets clued in for one reason or another, the adult can let the parents know. There are exceptions to this of course. I can only assume the principal
purposely avoided talking to @Dutchess_III first.

@JLeslie I thought we were discussing “old/wise/mature enough to have some say in our lives”. As for where I was going, I was showing how that line varies considerably by culture and over time; 2015 Americans have different opinions on that than 1815 Americans or 2015 Africans.

In 2015 America, those in the 16–20 age bracket (especially those at the lower end of that range) have a hazy grey status; they are adults when it’s convenient for them to be treated as such, yet not adults when it’s arbitrarily convenient to call them children. At what point do we consider them able to make decisions for themselves? When they move out of the house? That could be never. When they graduate high school? Or hit a certain age? Those are rather arbitrary.

With regards to @Dutchess_III‘s daughter, it’s quite possible that the VP had a different idea of where that line was. I mean, if it’s possible for many (most?) High School seniors to join the military or get a credit card without parental permission, and if you can make those decisions without asking mom and dad, then why not allow them to decide for themselves whether to transfer schools? Can you see how viewing the issue differently could lead to that sort of outcome?

I transferred high schools in between 9th and 10th grade and I believe my mother had to go to the school to fill out paperwork. I could not do it on my own as the forms had to be filled out by parent/guardian.

Still, I understand that in the case of @Dutchess_III, the VP put the idea in the kid’s head, which they should not have, not without discussing it with @Dutchess_III first.

@jerv Since the law is 18, legally the principal should be consulting with the parent in my opinion. Let alone it seems logical morally and intuitively.

That’s exactly all I am saying. The VP should have discussed it with me, before putting the idea in my daughter’s head. I would have told her it would be a huge mistake.

@JLeslie Stating your opinion dodges the question, so I’ll ask again; can you see how having a different viewpoint on how old one has to be to make their own decisions may cause this sort of thing?

@Dutchess_III I’m curious; if one of her friends put the idea into her head instead, would you have been totally fine with it, or at least less…. angry/upset?

@Dutchess_III I would have told her it would be a huge mistake.
Why? There was no one in that school that was trying to brainwash her into being some ”Jesus freak”, or plying her to believe in God or Christ. According to what I have read hear, that is the big fear, and it was not present at that school from what I see.

@jerv I don’t know. I think the fact that she had the backing of authority gave her the confidence to defy me the way she did.

^ So her defacto defficance of going against your recomentadtion was the only negative to your wanting to go to that school. Had the VP came to you and told you it was best for your daughter you woulkd have been more open or in complete agreement to send her there, correct, or not?

No, I wouldn’t have been. I knew what the outcome would be if she went to the “bad kid’s school.” Why would the VP discussing it with me change anything?

@Dutchess_III Never underestimate the power of large numbers of small things. In this context, peer pressure could easily exert as much (if not more) influence. Now, I’m not sure what the exchange rate is so I don’t know how many friends it takes to equal a VP, but I suspect that the suggestion wasn’t completely out of the blue; there was something that pushed the VP to make that suggestion. Watching over large numbers of people limits how proactive one can be, so I think it more likely that the VP’s suggestion was reactive; that the issue was brought to their attention by someone.
Still, I agree that you should have been in the loop, but still think it’s also possible that the VP assumed (incorrectly) that you and your kid had already discussed the issue. At that point, Hanlon’s Razor applies; “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”.

Oh, I’m sure some thing precipitated it. Corrie was always…sad. She may have gone to the VP with a problem or something. I will never know. I wonder if Corrie remembers? I’ll have to ask her.

@Dutchess_III No, I wouldn’t have been. I knew what the outcome would be if she went to the “bad kid’s school.
I am a bit lost. You would not want her to go to a school ran or funded by a faith based entity for fear they would brainwash your child (in supposedly some negative way) even if she graduated top of the class and someone else footed the bill so it cost you nothing. Yet, her going to a non-faith based school was subjected to influence, none of which was positive, and she didn’t graduate. Out of the two scenarios, had you had the choice to choose, which would have been better for her, your aversion to either notwithstanding?

@jerv No. In America the law is parents are responsible for their minor children and have the right to make decisions for them. The fucking schools carry on about parent involvement and then they circumvent a parent?! Sorry, but no. Then the principal did it again! Obviously the principal doesn’t give a shit about the parent’s concern or opinion. It’s wrong. It’s wrong because the school she wound up going to is a last stop school and she was doing fine in school. I don’t care that her friends were there. Her friends also at the last stop school? Just no.

Do some people have better decision making skills for themselves at younger ages? Absolutely. So what.

@Hypocrisy_Central You remind me of God. You can’t keep your stuff straight! I refer you here where for the second time, I said that all things considered, yes I would send her to such a school.

I talked with my daughter. We have different memories. The bottom line is the VP had to approve the transfer, which she did without a word to me.

@JLeslie Well, it seems that you are of a certain mindset that precludes reconciliation between us on this issue, and quite vehemently so. I think it best to just agree to disagree and drop it since I doubt any further discussion would be productive, and (more importantly) we’ve historically gotten along well enough that I would rather not escalate this into an argument.

@Dutchess_III Well, it may have been her, it may have been a guidance counselor… hard to say since neither of us were there.

@jerv Ok. We can agree to disagree. I’m not sure we totally disagree, but I’m fine dropping it. I have a question about your last statement to @Dutchess_III; what do you mean it may have been her? Do you mean maybe her daughter brought up going to that school first?

@JLeslie I believe that it’s possible, yes. In fact, I believe it more likely that either she, her guidance counselor, or one of her teachers (basically, a staff member who deals with fewer students and thus would actually know each student better than a VP would) brought it up to the VP than the VP suggesting it out of the blue… unless the school was small enough for the VP to know every student.

@jerv I don’t see why it matters. Let’s say the kid brought it up. After all, her friends were going there, so it does seem possible. The VP still could have brought the student’s mother into the conversation. Moreover, it seems to me he could have done his best to steer her in a better direction.

I suspect we’re only hearing one side of the story and there are many factors involved so it seems pointless to me – and far off the track from the OP – to keep discussing it.

One undisputed fact though, Jerv, is the VP had to approve the transfer, which she did without consulting me first. No the school wasn’t small enough for her to know every student well. Certainly she didn’t know my daughter as well as I did.

After all, people vary, so do our ways to treat our child and work things out about them. Maybe it’s hard to find a person who’s mostly same as ourselves. Just from my own perspective, maybe this question is a little personal, or private, and maybe (just saying) it’s the best just to browse all the kind answers and see if they can bring some inspiration.
Sometimes there’s just no perfect choice in life, we have to do our best, and choose the one we think better than the others and accept/ try to manage the challenges it brings. Surprisingly, the latter part we often need to learn, and will bring us joy when we achieve it.

@JLeslie @Dutchess_III What kid in their right mind would make such a decision without consulting their parents?

The term is “Implied consent”.

Teenagers would. It might not even be a conscious decision. Just a spur of the moment “I hate this school!”

@Dutchess_III Considering how many “spur of the moment” decisions I’ve made as an adult, I’m not so sure that’s a bad thing.

Then again, I might be biased because one of those “spur of the moment” decisions led to the best thing that happened to me in my life; I met this girl about 20 years ago, did something impulsive, and we’re still happily married.

@jerv You can’t be serious. I really thought you forgot the tilde on that comment.